OP
OP
BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,546
What are the consequences for these Germans if they don't respond? Do they just come later? Do they lose their jobs?

🤷‍♂️ They come later most likely? They're not going to lose their jobs. Turns out these Germans aren't very efficient as there's no one point person handling all of this but tons of different managers. These folks all got to come to the U.S. to handle a project. The project is supposed to start next month. But, when speaking with management and key employees, its a nightmare as they chat amongst themselves about what they want to do or the best plan or whose back from vacation.

Just tell me what you want to do!
 

Aske

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,693
Canadia
Canadians are unreachable too, as they should be. The work-of-holic types who respond to emails in their off time attract concern, in my experience.

Edit: But yes, only two weeks for us.
 

Steelrain

Member
Oct 25, 2017
584
So glad I'm a government employee and haven't had to deal with what most Americans deal with vacation-wise. I have 110 days of paid leave saved up (thanks COVID) and am taking the month of September off. I will not be answering my phone either 😂
 

ivantod

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,561
Not only this is true ( though some places have you working 9 hours for 5 days so you don't have to go on weekends) but even on your free days and vacations you are expected to be avaliable in case something happens. And avaliable as in "hey, I need you in the office now because someone else fucked up something".

But that's not all! You want take vacations?
A) You make sure no other one has asked for the same dates. And if this happens, someone needs to change it
B) Can't take more than 2 weeks even if you have days avaliable (because of course, all the work accumulated is going to wait until you return)
C) Boss: Better take the office laptop/ cellphone in case something happens
D) Work with international clients and it's not holiday for them? You gotta attend them.
Ugh. I'm sorry, but this sounds just absolutely awful in every way possible. There's no way I could work like that and I'm sorry that you guys have to. :(
 

calloumiii

Member
Sep 14, 2018
188
UK here, I work in finance based stuff and some of the higher-ups commit (and try their best to encourage) that sort of devotion to the company (checking emails, meetings, etc while on leave) but I'm pretty far down the ladder so I don't have to deal with that shit. Even if I was higher up, though, I'd still actively avoid it - it's my allotted paid leave, meaning that I'm being paid for that time already. I'm not doing work for free on top of that.

I've actually had a discussion with my manager around a co-worker of mine who is a little more suggestible to those kinds of pressures. Our team was under a bit of duress and she's basically a wizard at what we do, with way more expertise and experience than the rest of us (it's an unfortunate situation where she can't take out the time to train us up because she's putting out so many fires, and upper management doesn't feel the need for external training due to her dousing those flames so well). She felt responsible and started putting in extra hours and weekends, and I felt that my manager was, at best, not dissuading her enough from doing so, or at worst, gently nudging her to carry on. I entirely understand why - it was causing us to get a bit of heat from upstairs and I imagine my boss was taking the brunt of it... but to be frank I don't really care about the output or performance of my company and was far more upset at how my colleague was being used.

I honestly don't think I'd survive the US work culture.
 

Trieu

Member
Feb 22, 2019
1,775
Free yourself from the paper chains. Don't answer emails or phone calls during vacation. At some point enough is enough and if you don't respect yourself then others will exploit that.
 

Deleted member 10014

User requested account closure
Banned
Jul 11, 2021
382
Yeah. Having British relatives and now a German sister-in-law, it's amazing to see how much vacation they get. I wish we got that here.

I've never had a job that offered more than a week a year.

What the....

family-guy.gif


(I get 27 plus 8 bank holiday which equals about 7 weeks off, 8 if you play it smart)
 

Deleted member 5491

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,249
My dear American friends:
If you want more vacation days
better work conditions
more protections and rights
better payment

Guess what:
You need to unionize and work togehter and fight those in power.
All these benefits that we have here, didn't come from nowhere, but from strikes and whatnot ages ago
 

kiguel182

Member
Oct 31, 2017
9,545
It's baffling that a lot of Americans have like 2 weeks vacation.

22 paid days is the minimum here by law.
 

Deleted member 171

Oct 25, 2017
19,888
Yeah, moved from US work to EU work, and it's a bit stark. I was in tech, so we still got 20 days of PTO a year, but it also included your sick time and the like. In EU, it's 4 weeks vacation, the various holidays, comp days whenever working overtime, and sick leave on the side.

And I can actually just close my laptop at quitting time, and it's okay.
 

kiriku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
948
Yeah, I'm in Sweden, in addition to all the Swedish holidays I get 30 days of paid vacation every year. There is just an acceptance over here that everything slows down during summer, especially July-August. And I think it's awesome. Even though I like my job and all, I disconnect completely from it during vacation. No mail, no slack messages, no communication whatsoever.
 

nekomix

Member
Oct 30, 2017
482
Remind me to never accept a contract in the US because FUCK NO ! I am ok holidays, that's like the concept, no work during holidays ! Maybe, if I get bored, I'll check my mails and if there is a life or death situation, I may dare answer but... Unless I'm the Oberboss or it's my company, I don't exist for my colleagues when I'm on holidays.
 

19thCenturyFox

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,330
No time to check emails and sign documents when you drive up and down the autobahn at mach 6 all day.
 

hobblygobbly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,763
NORDFRIESLAND, DEUTSCHLAND
it's not just vacation, but it's also the context of summer here

although we don't really get all as such extreme cold temperatures in winter like compared to some places in NA like Canada, Europe in winter is fucking DREADFUL in terms of no sun, dark all day and sunset at 3pm and sunrise at like 9am for months (at least this is case of central/northern europe). because NA is lower latitude than Europe the winter in these respects are different (and the way the cloud coverage and gulf stream works). previous winter i don't think i saw a single day of blue sky and wasn't fairly dark

this is why summer and the sun is so cherished. in summer we have at least some sun and sunset is only between 10:30-11pm

that's why summer vacation in particular is cherished a lot and why most people take majority of their vacation this time. we also have a lot of traditions/festivals that are centered around summer, many which originate before pre-christian times
 

Kain

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
7,798
Good luck finding anything but bars or hotels open in Spain in August lol

I actually like working in August because it's so quiet and nobody else is working. But yeah, once I'm on holidays you can try to reach me but you won't.
 

Deleted member 10014

User requested account closure
Banned
Jul 11, 2021
382
Yeah. I don't even know what that's like haha.

If you can move... Move!

Entitlement


Almost all workers are legally entitled to 5.6 weeks' paid holiday a year (known as statutory leave entitlement or annual leave).
This includes:
  • agency workers
  • workers with irregular hours
  • workers on zero-hours contracts
An employer can include bank holidays as part of statutory annual leave.
Coronavirus (COVID-19) does not affect workers' entitlement to holiday pay and leave, except for carrying over leave.


www.gov.uk

Holiday entitlement

Holiday entitlement or annual leave - information for employers and workers on entitlement, calculating leave, taking leave, accruing leave and disputes
 

GazzaScotland

Member
Oct 27, 2017
202
UK here, work bank holidays unless its rota'd day off. But they just get added to entitlement though to take whenever, so I end up with about six weeks and two days holiday balance a year. Can't complain really.
 

SlickShoes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,781
I'm from Scotland and my last job here I had 42 total holiday days per year plus unlimited sick time should I be ill.

I now work for a US company remotely and I get 7 days holiday and 0 sick days, it's truly depressing.
 

Goodlifr

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,910
UK here.
Have 25 days a year... Only holidays I really switch off is Christmas though as everyone is off.
Rest of my leave I'm available if needed (I let others make the own judgement call on when I'm needed).

No expectations of the same behaviour of my team though
 

Secret Bambino

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Mar 21, 2021
3,012
European here. Unfortunately, not all companies are like that though. It really depends.
For example, I haven't had any issues yet. However, a family member of mine was on vacation for two weeks, and on the second week his boss already wanted him to help them with work.
Like, come on, at the very least respect his time-off. It's just two weeks, wtf.
 

BobsReset

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 26, 2017
915
I have always wanted to live in America but when I read about what working life was like I very quickly lost that desire.

OP you need to normalize not contacting people when not working and not expecting a response when not working. Your disbelief that that's how the Germans do it is amusing but until you (and others) do the same you will be stuck working more hours than you should
 

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,422
It's like no one read BossAttack's OP and got weirdly defensive. He doesn't care how this affects them. He finds it odd that they are doing something that will be detrimental to them. It doesn't make him work more hours. He just knows that when they come back they're going to be panicking and they only have themselves to blame. And when that happens he isn't going to drop what he's doing either.
 

bushmonkey

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,671
UK here. I get 30 days a year and I literally get told my boss not to look at emails or messages when on leave and to just relax. We also get the period between Xmas and new year given to everyone as a bonus and we e been given extra days off around bank holidays as a thank you during the pandemic. For example, a week in Monday is a bank holiday so everyone in my company was also given Friday and Tuesday off too to make it a long weekend.
 
OP
OP
BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,546
It's like no one read BossAttack's OP and got weirdly defensive. He doesn't care how this affects them. He finds it odd that they are doing something that will be detrimental to them. It doesn't make him work more hours. He just knows that when they come back they're going to be panicking and they only have themselves to blame. And when that happens he isn't going to drop what he's doing either.

Exactly. It's no sweat off my back. I'm trying to help you. I'm just amazed at the attitude. "This project is really critical, please do what you can to get these requests approved. Also, as of today, I will be on vacation for three weeks. Please direct all communication to Mr. X"

Hi Mr. X.

"Ah yes, BossAttack. Thank you. I can sign this, but I am going on vacation for three weeks, starting tomorrow. Wiedersehn."

😑
 

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,422
Exactly. It's no sweat off my back. I'm trying to help you. I'm just amazed at the attitude. "This project is really critical, please do what you can to get these requests approved. Also, as of today, I will be on vacation for three weeks. Please direct all communication to Mr. X"

Hi Mr. X.

"Ah yes, BossAttack. Thank you. I can sign this, but I am going on vacation for three weeks, starting tomorrow. Wiedersehn."

😑

And then when they get back, 2 minutes after starting
"BOSSATTACK WHY WASN'T THIS DONE IN THE LAST 3 WEEKS?!?!?!?!!??!!?!?!?!?"


Been there done that.
 

Diablos

has a title.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,729
f9dO9dJ.jpg


I work for a company based out of Germany and it is literally this. They are absolutely unreachable on their Summer breaks (which are right about now) and the holiday season - it's awe inspiring
As an American… that tweet would be funny if it wasn't so god damn infuriating to read from where I am sitting. I have generous PTO (for being in the US) but honestly the American work ethic is still so ass-backwards.
 

Thordinson

Banned
Aug 1, 2018
18,592
If you can, you should. Even if you don't plan to use it, what if your kids do? They probably won't be eligible with a great grandmother, but if you keep up the citizenship line, it will benefit future generations.

That's true.

I think my dad had citizenship too? I know he talked about being naturalized with my grandma even though he was born to a American father. He had naturalization papers too, I think.

I wouldn't mind using it since benefits are way better there but I can't afford to move, sadly.
 

bawjaws

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,632
UK here.
Have 25 days a year... Only holidays I really switch off is Christmas though as everyone is off.
Rest of my leave I'm available if needed (I let others make the own judgement call on when I'm needed).

No expectations of the same behaviour of my team though
I'd just say that the last sentence is a tricky one, because team leaders lead by example. If you are making yourself available to work during leave, then there's a real danger that you're helping to set a culture in your team that it's okay to work during time off, or even worse that there's an expectation that they will do this. I've worked in companies and teams with horrendous cultures of routinely working way above contracted hours, or being available via email 24/7/365, and in every case where that happened it was because the most senior people set that example. They were typically partners so it was entirely in their interests to work like that, but it trickled down from them to senior managers to junior managers to team members.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,606
Sweden
German here and yeah, I can't imagine living without it. My mum just took off 4 weeks for a family vacation we are doing. She told her team to not call her no matter what happens and obviously that's okay and no one bat an eye (and she is the team lead).
 
Last edited:

Ernest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,712
So.Cal.
Yeah, too many Americans (and especially immigrants to America, like my parents and uncles) see over-working (as in long hours and no vacations) as something to be proud of.
 

ronpontelle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,645
I live in France, and it's great for holidays. I'm self employed so it doesn't really impact on me though.

Last summer, in August, we went to the beach about an hour away. Wanted something for lunch and most of the restaurants were closed for August. And this was a touristy place. You'd think they'd be coining it in and go away on September, but I guess the kids have school holidays.

My last job in the UK was at a university, we got five weeks leave a year, plus a day off for Maundy Thursday, and the office was closed through Christmas, so we'd be off for ten days without it using any annual leave.

I used to log in from home one day over Christmas to check emails and I'd get two days off in lieu. Totally voluntary though.

But other than that, I've never once worked between Christmas and New years, and I'm 42.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,860
Tbh visa responsibility and meeting the deadlines for it falls on the person who's applying for visa, even if the company is doing the paperwork etc on their behalf. And I say this as someone who lives and works in UK and needs a visa to do so.

The problem here is not that they are on holidays, or that EU work culture makes it so that they won't answer. But rather the problem is that most Europeans do not understand the importance of visa and visa deadlines because they have never had to deal with it being in EU (and tourism never required a visa as it's something they can do last minute). It's why a lot of EU people I've met think they can easily emigrate anywhere they want because they can do that in EU.

They've basically never experienced the tougher/shittier side of immigration, and as such don't see it as a big deal.

That being said, unless they absolutely must come to US next month due to a deadline/arrangement and have already fully committed to it without any room for flexibility, then there's no reason why the application cannot be made once they are back from holidays...even if it means they arrive in US later than expected.


What I don't understand is this. Why is a person who's outside the US and doing paperwork to come to US, required to make even do a hand signature, for an application being made inside the US? Initials or digital signatures would usually be the way to go in cases like this. In UK visa application it's different because the application you make from within UK is only for people who are in UK already and the application made outside UK is a different application for these reasons as they are all processed locally in the country the application was made. Anyways printers really are not that commonly found, I have to go on like a 1.5 mile walk to get something printed.
 
Last edited:
Oct 26, 2017
6,651
And here I am, sitting on 2 months worth of vacation that I don't know when to consume. There's always been something getting in the way these last few years... Sigh
 

Puroresu_kid

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,478
Haha nah, less but we moved overseas for my wife's job so I had to leave the sweet 42 days holiday job.

I couldn't believe my contract when I signed it, I thought the 7 was a typo 😂

Crazy. I'm not sure what it will take for Americans to start getting together to demand better.

Do the majority of Americans not realise that Europe and even Canada does not have such bad Labour protections.

I mean if even lack of paid maternity leave doesn't cause people to assemble and protest I don't know what will.
 

Wubby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,902
Japan!
As much as people shit on Japan work culture I actually get a lot more time off here than I ever did working in the US. Not European lets fuck off for months at a time level but still easily 2x more than I ever had in the US.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
44,786
Yeah, too many Americans (and especially immigrants to America, like my parents and uncles) see over-working (as in long hours and no vacations) as something to be proud of.

Too much propaganda.

I don't work one second more than I absolutely have to. There's just one life.
 

SolidSnakeBoy

Member
May 21, 2018
7,357
Work in tech and we get unlimited vacation. Just need approval from my manager ahead of time. Usually take 4 weeks a year. Company has also been asking us to do more W/L balance so we have gotten 4 extra holidays so far this year. I can't complain been only 4 years in the industry. American.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
44,786
Work in tech and we get unlimited vacation. Just need approval from my manager ahead of time. Usually take 4 weeks a year. Company has also been asking us to do more W/L balance so we have gotten 4 extra holidays so far this year. I can't complain been only 4 years in the industry.

But it sucks that it depends on the industry and employer, in Brazil 4 weeks is the minimum required by law (not counting holidays).
 

SolidSnakeBoy

Member
May 21, 2018
7,357
But it sucks that it depends on the industry and employer, in Brazil 4 weeks is the minimum required by law.

Agreed the US is a hellhole for non white collar work. Even then many industries have poor W/L balance even with decent vacation. Feds should make a standard and that will push private industry to be competitive.
 

dunkzilla

alt account
Banned
Dec 13, 2018
4,762
I get 5 weeks, plus 9 bank holidays. I actually find it too few compared to similar companies. But yeah, I'm not even looking at my email or anything close to that when I'm on holiday.