Eurovision Song Contest 2024 |OT| "Not a political event"
- Thread starter Wrexis
- Start date
Why should they be replaced?
Booing on him for disqualifying a violent person is childish, replacing them is dumb and sends a message of "we're afraid of a bunch of angry dutch so we'll ignore harassment/violence next year"
The booing can just as well be about allowing Israel to participate, or a combo of it + the DQ.
I can't remember it. Unicorn I do, but I think for everyone in general they have certain songs that stick better than others.
Voting through the app/web portal is with cards only from the country you claim to be voting from. I voted myself from Ireland using the app that directs to a secure web.portal (there might be an IP geolocate done at this point) and it said I could only use a card from the country I was voting from. So those are the checks.
This isn't correct. Multiple participating countries had the option to vote online. Edit: however, I should also note that UK was not one of them, though (referring to the previously posted tweet).
I mean, if what is currently known is indeed the truth, it's very possible that the DQ itself was correct and that Joost behavior was not OK, but at the same time the organizers didn't do enough to respect his wishes and fucked up that way. Both can be true.
I'd put money down on no one being replaced, and the ESC community drama mostly dying down (other than a few memes and such) by the time ESC season rolls around next year.
EDIT: And yeah, leaving aside the fact it's all super anecdotal and means nothing - many people this year were vocal about the politics of their votes. Be it people who voted to Israel as a counter-protest, or say the Norwegian jury member who said he ranked Israel last regardless of musical quality.
Israel and Ukraine got 300 points each - Yeah, I don't think anyone is claiming the popular vote this year was entirely based on song quality.
EDIT: And yeah, leaving aside the fact it's all super anecdotal and means nothing - many people this year were vocal about the politics of their votes. Be it people who voted to Israel as a counter-protest, or say the Norwegian jury member who said he ranked Israel last regardless of musical quality.
Israel and Ukraine got 300 points each - Yeah, I don't think anyone is claiming the popular vote this year was entirely based on song quality.
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Huh, that's on me, especially for claiming that others don't know how voting works. Should've heeded my own advice.This isn't correct. Multiple participating countries had the option to vote online. Edit: however, I should also note that UK was not one of them, though (referring to the previously posted tweet).
As a German living in Austria though, no wonder I never heard of online voting. And apparently the UK doesn't allow that either, so that tweet still is a lie.
Ireland, Estonia, Switzerland, and Croatia for me
I kept hearing the slow moon parts of Ireland today
I can't stop listening to Europapa. I like Croatia their song but it's not a song people will remember. Ignoring Europapa this was probably among the weaker editions.
Switzerland for example was only 4th in their semi finale. That's not a song people will remember.
Switzerland for example was only 4th in their semi finale. That's not a song people will remember.
I'm weird in the last four visions I really like a high placing song, but they don't win
2019 - Honestly Arcade is a great winner, but Spirit in the Sky is a guilty pleasure and while I don't think it should have won it shouldn't have gotten robbed by the juries like it did.
2021-I'm with the juries in that I think Voila is the better song(forgot Swiss won the jury vote). Zitte e Buoni did nothing for me but I loved Shum.
2022-I think Slomo should of won, just an insane performance, but I liked Steffania alot too.
2023-I really don't like Tattoo, and thought Cha Cha Cha should have won, but at the same Cha Cha Cha had staging that just amplified Kaarijias weak vocals in the second part by tiring him out.
2024-I think The Code is a perfectly fit winner for Eurovision, but I'm pretty partial to Rim Tim Tagi Dim, chorus is just really fun.
In general, I think there should be revisions to Eurovision
33 percent juries in both the semis and Grand finals.
Jury would boost some countries in the semifinals and get more jury stronger songs in the finals, at the same time I think the public's opinion matters more.
2019 - Honestly Arcade is a great winner, but Spirit in the Sky is a guilty pleasure and while I don't think it should have won it shouldn't have gotten robbed by the juries like it did.
2021-I'm with the juries in that I think Voila is the better song(forgot Swiss won the jury vote). Zitte e Buoni did nothing for me but I loved Shum.
2022-I think Slomo should of won, just an insane performance, but I liked Steffania alot too.
2023-I really don't like Tattoo, and thought Cha Cha Cha should have won, but at the same Cha Cha Cha had staging that just amplified Kaarijias weak vocals in the second part by tiring him out.
2024-I think The Code is a perfectly fit winner for Eurovision, but I'm pretty partial to Rim Tim Tagi Dim, chorus is just really fun.
In general, I think there should be revisions to Eurovision
33 percent juries in both the semis and Grand finals.
Jury would boost some countries in the semifinals and get more jury stronger songs in the finals, at the same time I think the public's opinion matters more.
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Eurovision organisers defend decision to disqualify Joost Klein
European Broadcasting Union says Dutch broadcaster’s version of events does not correspond with witness accounts
www.theguardian.com
Disqualified Eurovision contestant Joost Klein likely to face charges, say Swedish police
Klein may be charged over alleged threats and face a fine if convicted, after a member of the production crew made a complaint to police
www.theguardian.com
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"Making illegal threats" huh. I mean...at least that backs up the idea that there wasn't direct contact between Joost and the staffer or I'd think this would be considered assault and not just threats. Trying to judge any of this is kind of impossible until or unless more details come about about what exactly the gesture was and--just as likely--whatever it was he said to her. I'm sure emotions were running high for him after the semi-final but that doesn't excuse him if he ended up saying something truly heinous or offensive toward someone else trying to do their job.
I don't know the specifics of the Swedish justice system but an assault doesn't necessarily require physical contact, normally.
Approaching someone and pushing a camera right up to their face could be considered assault too. Again, it's impossible to say without the fine details.
Also this news update tells us nothing new. EBU disagrees with AVROTROS but neither side wants to elaborate.
OP
OP
Kinda feels they're trying to brush it away.
Just make sure that the event's main sponsor is from your country and you're good to wipe your ass with the rules.
"We don't want to call out the country that our title sponsor, Moroccanoil, is from"
View: https://twitter.com/fru1typunch/status/1788360447525007742?t=6BQoe1kAtZTOg9-XYAj0Zw&s=19
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Oh rehearsal only it seems.
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My wife wanted to show someone Joost's performance from Night 1, so we went back to rewatch it last night and it seems like the broadcast has been altered to completely remove the Netherlands from the show. Very strange.
They had to change the Ogham before the live show thanks to the EBU. That picture is from the rehearsals.
I read from someone that "illegal threats" in Sweden might be closest to what's called "common assault" in the UK. The definition of the crime is to threaten someone with a criminal act. The threat must be real, as in, it must be something the person you're threatening thinks you're capable of doing. And it must be made with the intent of intimidating or terrifying the person you're threatening.
So "illegal threats" could be threatening to beat someone up while acting in a way that makes it seem that you're serious about it.
I'm with you on a lot of the top songs not necessarily being my favorite, but regardless it's how things went and as an American I don't have too much of a say in it.
As for adjusting the fan vote, I'm hesitant in it. I do think it should have more weight, but it's also super easy to manipulate based on reports of others using phones/cards from other countries. So how would something like that be corrected?
There's no perfect solution. Had the jury completely removed politics from their voting Isreal would have won because of public voting. It's clear the jury made sure Isreal had no chance of winning.
On the other hand Isreal got way more votes they deserved from the public for reasons that are worrisome.
Switzerland winning is impressive since they only ranked 4th in the semi finals. 5th in the finals. It's clear in this case the jury and public voters don't see eye to eye. Same last year with cha-cha.
The Eurovision organisation is completely incompetent but when it comes to voting I don't think there's a ideal solution.
On the other hand Isreal got way more votes they deserved from the public for reasons that are worrisome.
Switzerland winning is impressive since they only ranked 4th in the semi finals. 5th in the finals. It's clear in this case the jury and public voters don't see eye to eye. Same last year with cha-cha.
The Eurovision organisation is completely incompetent but when it comes to voting I don't think there's a ideal solution.
From a Haaretz journalist. Suspect there's more to come.
View: https://x.com/yonatan_touval/status/1790416886716399857?s=46
View: https://x.com/yonatan_touval/status/1790416886716399857?s=46
Winning means hosting so it's a big thing. It would have meant a lot for Croatia.
There's none, I think juries still need to be involved but their impact should be smaller (and in case of the semis they should be involved as they help smaller countries with zero diaspora).
Also, Croatia won the public vote, unless you meant juries sandbagged Israel or boosted Croatia on purpose.
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It also means a lot to Switzerland.
Just to say it, because people keep forgetting about this; Out of the 8 years with the new system, it happened only two times so far that the Winner of the Jury also won the contest. Otherwise the public got their winner because they don't spread out their points in the same way.
Though this year was a bit of a special case because the public didn't have a clear favourite. The top 5 by the Tele Votes all received a lot of points which is quite unusual.
If you compare the points between Switzerland and Croatia, the differences of Jury and Public Points are each in the 100 to 150 range. Only that Croatia is third place (closely behind France) with the Juries while Switzerland only got to 5th with the public. 2021 for example France got about the same amount of tele vote points like Switzerland but got to second place by the public.
I'd say all of the top 4 countries (Croatia, Ukraine, France and Switzerland) would have been worthy winners by both the public and Jury.
I think the main issue of the voting system is how transparent it is featured in the actual show. There is maybe a bit too much doom and gloom happening. It might breaks the tradition of every country "calling in", but personally I believe it would be better to just announce the the placing with points and thats it. If someone is interested in who gave how much points they can look it up later. Giving the points takes too long anyway.
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Maybe the posters claiming that Isreal wouldn't bother doing vote rigging for a song contest just haven't seen this news? That these vote were an organic expression of counter protest?
I'd love to know how much this cost them.
I'd love to know how much this cost them.
I didn't deny that there could be some effort on trying to garner up the votes - which is not super uncommon for Eurovision. But there's a big different between "hiring experts to try and set up voting communities" and "rigging the vote" through bot farms and whatever people were suggesting.
If you think the Israeli government hiring a few experts in probably a few countries with big Jewish populations (which is NOT most of Europe. Most European people I know never even met a Jewish person in their entire life) is what got Israel 12 points in 15 countries - I mean OK, but this tweet is not the smoking gun you think it is.
The results weren't that outlandish as to suggest some nefarious voting factory - The "40%" vote to Israel in Italy, for example, turned out to be high 20-s % of the vote in the full results released - Similar to the % Ukraine got two years ago.
It couldn't cost much because then it would have to be reported in the government's budget.
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My response there was a rebuttal to why #1 matters, and if you looked at my previous post you would have seen where 3 of my five previous songs did better with juries than televoters (slomo, voila, and arcade - with arcade winning).
I also wouldn't say it's the last six - 2023/4 was changed cuz of the 2022 voting scandal in the semis, and I do think it's a significant change that changes how broadcasters approach Eurovision. Now 2023/4 having the televote winner is probably a coincidence but all systems could use further refinements. It's also a little sus that both 2023/4 had the two years for breaking jury records after the 2022 scandal.
I also just don't find it very egalitarian that a small amount of people have so much input especially when televoters need to pay to vote - and at the same time I think juries are also needed in the semis as well but obviously you still have to worry about the televote and the jury vote being compromised so there's no perfect solution.
if Europapa was in the show I do think it would have ate at Croatia's votes especially and there would have been a bigger chance at an Israel victory this year, which would have even cause way more trouble this year.
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Fair. Also I get it, I don't think that the current system works well enough.
Color me shocked. Hey! I have an idea of what the EBU could do to avoid this! It's so simple I can't believe it hasn't been brought up dozens and dozens and dozens of times before oh wait it has and they're cowards
KAN is ruining the contest, cut and dry. This shit has to stop.