Explain Toxic Masculinity Please.

[HardTimesFamilyPride]

Some of the anecdotes in here are really getting to me. I lived that life, too. Male family members who refuse to say "I love you" or even hug another man, being pressured to not express any emotion, to hide it under aggression or facetiousness. Being cornered about any little thing I might enjoy that is too "feminine". Finding myself in situations where I have to fight my urge to suppress my sensitivity. Being around men who cannot communicate outside of one-upping other people. I'm 30 and some of my friends still react with hostility when asked to actually communicate their feelings or internal dialogue and it doesn't seem like they're ever going to change. It's weird, man. I feel y'all.
Much love

 

[samoyed]

How is something masculine but not male? Why are these things masculine instead of simply virtuous?

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Tradition and inertia.

It's masculine because it was part of the code of masculinity. It's not male because as you say these can simply be considered virtues and are gender neutral. Part of the sexism dialogue is separating traditional ideas of masculinity and feminity from virtues and sins.

 

[astro]

I think the issue is some people take the term past was its intention was and the term becomes a meaningless catch all. It means so many things to so many different people, that everyone using it has different interpretations of what it means and then it just fails as a term because it doesnt present a clear message. Honestly people should move away from the term and lean into specific vocabulary like sexism, homophobia, aggression, etc... That can be discussed with the context of male culture or masculinity without resorting to what now really is just a buzzword that has been thrown around kind of frivolously without really outlining what their position is.

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Disagree, it covers a lot but it's a specific term for a specific thing and the majority of the time I see it used the usage is correct.

I see a LOT of men react to being called out for toxic masculinity by stating something like the above, though, that the phrase is meaningless and doesn't count for the situation their discussing at the time (when it almost always does).

The real problem, as usual, is the cis straight male knee-jerk reaction (not saying you btw, I don't know who you are) when discussing these things. They feel their privilege threatened and get hyper-defensive and usually start shouting about "pc culture gone mad" or "femenazis" or some other crap not even relate to the issue.

Toxic Masculinity is a huge problem. Not only for the men caught up in the social expectations of TM, but also because it has a huge knock on effect for minority groups such as transgender people, non-binary people, other LGBT people, etc...

It's not a buzzword, it's a very real thing that needs directly addressing.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Toxic masculinity is me taking almost 18 years to come out about the fact I was sexually assaulted in high school because I was convinced that telling people I was assaulted by a woman would make them think I was gay.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Toxic masculinity is me taking almost 18 years to come out about the fact I was sexually assaulted in high school because I was convinced that telling people I was assaulted by a woman would make them think I was gay.

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Now isn't that a fucked up duality.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Now isn't that a fucked up duality.

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Isn't it? The ONE person I tried to tell about it right after it happened went "what are you freaking out about? she's hot. are you gay or something?" and that pretty much cemented me never telling anyone else, even my parents. I only finally made my peace with it earlier this year.

 

[Cabbagehead]

We are physically stronger than women and our brains are better at math, science, spatial relations. So yes. That is genetically hard wired in many/most men because it was desirable throughout most of human history.

Emasculated beta males would not have survived most of human history.

Manning up. Being strong. Those were good things until very recently. The problem is men were too successful. We defeated nature and created a society with very little danger compared to what our ancestors faced. Once desirable traits are no longer desirable. Feminists think men are obsolete.

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This was something alright...

Isn't it? The ONE person I tried to tell about it right after it happened went "what are you freaking out about? she's hot. are you gay or something?" and that pretty much cemented me never telling anyone else, even my parents. I only finally made my peace with it earlier this year.

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The belief that man can't be raped by woman is such a fuck up thing to believe.

 

[Dragnipur]

The definition I've heard is that any sexism towards Men is caused by Men or something.

 

[thetrin]

How is something masculine but not male? Why are these things masculine instead of simply virtuous?

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Good question.

The way I understand it, Masculine characteristics are viewed as individually empowering (courage), while feminine characteristics are viewed as empowering those around you (empathy).

I'm not an expert on the subject, but this is how I've read it defined, and how it's been described to me. These are all virtuous traits, but while some are self affirming, other are community affirming. Both are equally affirming.

You can put them under an umbrella of virtuous beliefs, and that's fine. It's also fine to have feminine traits. While I physically look super masculine, I exhibit a lot of feminine emotional traits. A healthy mixture makes for a healthy person.

 

[Deepthought_]

So reading through the thread toxic masculinity is social norms that inhibit men from showing emotions that lead to bad actions or harm to both men and women?

I haven't cried since I was a kid , sad movies are the only things that get me or thinking about my grandfather makes me teary eyed .

Outside of that I don't cry or show emotions other than laughing /empathy ,having a good time or being focused on something

 

[Deleted member 42105]

The real problem, as usual, is the straight male knee-jerk reaction (not saying you btw, I don't know who you are) when discussing these things. They feel their privilege threatened and get hyper-defensive and usually start shouting about "pc culture gone mad" or "femenazis" or some other crap not even relate to the issue.

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FTFY. This is a male issue, not a race issue. I can tell you that first hand from both sides of my family.

 

[astro]

FTFY. This is a male issue, not a race issue. I can tell you that first hand from both sides of my family.

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My bad you're entirely right, just so used to writing 'white' in these problematic situations I did that on impulse.

 

[Budi]

The belief that man can't be raped by woman is such a fuck up thing to believe.

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I've noticed that it's not even always about belief, but the expectation that as a man I should say this and keep my true beliefs hidden. Happened at my work on a cigarette break with one guy. I don't remember how we came to that discussion but we were talking about a teacher taking advantage of her students. He laughed and said "I wish I had a teacher like that". I of course challenged him on this and he immediately got more serious about it and changed his tune. But he probably expected that since we were two guys chatting, he should say something stupid like that. Especially since the enviroment we work in is full of toxic masculinity, sexism and other grossnes towards women. Though that crew has many other issues too and it can be really frustrating to interact with some of these people. But atleast I have opportunities to challenge and call them out, hopefully having even little bit of positive impact.

 

[Kasumin]

Here's part of my perspective on toxic masculinity -

I work as a crisis counsellor. I speak with a lot of men who call to talk about deeply repressed emotions. Feelings that they never, absolutely never, express to anyone at all. They almost always describe how they were raised to believe that any engagement with their emotions is weakness (I've had men tell me, when I ask how they feel about a certain situation or event, that 'there's no feelings involved here'). Even acknowledging their emotion is weak. They are the kind of people who won't even see a counsellor or therapist in person. They bottle it up inside and really hurt themselves because they never let it out, which can cause a host of issues. Often, when they call, they admit that they don't even understand why they called - it's just like an impulse that they can't control - they need to talk to someone and part of them deep down knows that, but they can't do it in 'real life' because of how ingrained the attitude of feelings being weak is. These are just everyday people, not pathologically mentally ill people. Most people that call these lines are just going through a tough time in the moment or for a while.

It's a real barrier to them being able to resolve the issues they face in life. Being aware of your emotions in times of crisis or low moods (or anytime really) is crucial. Without that awareness and engagement, you will get stuck in patterns of thought and behaviour. It's part of why our society is fucked up in a lot of ways - we're in a period of semi permanent crisis societally, and the people with the most power right now - men, have real problems engaging with an awareness of how their emotions affect them and others.

I also notice how this kind of mindset can make the men I speak with create within themselves an attitude of superiority. Some will refuse to seek help because they genuinely believe they're smarter than any counsellor or therapist they could see. Which is of course irrational, but the denial of emotion goes hand in hand with building up a wall of arrogance.

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Wanted to quote your post because it's excellent and I really appreciate your perspective as a crisis counselor.

You point out some of the broad effects of toxic masculinity and how people don't even realize how it's hurting them so deeply.

 

[Deepthought_]

I've noticed that it's not even always about belief, but the expectation that as a man I should say this. Happened at my work on a cigarette break with one guy. I don't remember how we came to that discussion but we were talking about a teacher taking advantage of her students. He laughed and said "I wish I had a teacher like that". I of course challenged him on this and he immediately got more serious about it and changed his tune. But he probably expected that since we were two guys chatting, he should say something stupid like that. Especially since the enviroment we work in is full of toxic masculinity. Though that crew has many other issues too and it can be really frustrating to interact with some of these people. But atleast I have opportunities to challenge and call them out, hopefully having even little bit of positive impact.

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I am speaking specifically for me

I know as a man my penis can get hard by touch even if I'm not aroused. A woman would then have to over power me if she wanted to insert it insider of her or she tried to penetrate me I am speaking specifically for me

 

[samoyed]

When comes to "validity" I agree with most of what Astro said so I won't retread it.

But I want to point out that calling something a "buzzword" does not invalidate it. There is no central authority that tells us "okay, this is what x-ism means, so you can talk about it now". Language evolves by people looking for or creating words to describe things they don't have words for yet. You think people just woke up one day ready to talk about sexism and racism? Any new socially progressive term is always met with pushback and these terms don't survive unless they keep getting used. The act of telling people not to use a term because it's not as legitimate as other terms is itself way to delegitimize the term.

So personally I judge the validity of terms based on how much they contribute to dialog. I want people to share. I want people to talk. I want people to empathize, and increase the range of things people feel comfortable saying. I am not interested in mucking about with definitions and semantics which, while intellectually interesting, tends to be a rhetorical dead end. I am not interested in confining people emotionally by drawing lines around them and pressuring them to follow the lines. That's what I consider to be part toxic masculinity. Drawing lines around men and women based on outdated harmful traditions.

 

[astro]

I am speaking specifically for me

I know as a man my penis can get hard by touch even if I'm not aroused. A woman would then have to over power me if she wanted to insert it insider of her or she tried to penetrate me I am speaking specifically for me

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Overpower can be a mental thing, it doesn't need to be physical.

 

[Deleted member 3093]

The definition I've heard is that any sexism towards Men is caused by Men or something.

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Not exactly. The point instead is that a lot of problems men suffer from are, in large part, committed by other men.

1. Men die in dangerous workplaces/active combat more often because men are expected by other men to belong in these roles.
2. Women are given priority in determining custody because men created the notion that women are the superior caregivers.
3. Men are reluctant to seek help, be it for mental illness or to report a rape by a man or a woman, because of this notion that doing so makes them seem weak. This is something more frequently seen from both genders, but it's mainly due to the notion of male = strong that men created that leads to that.

 

[astro]

But I want to point out that calling something a "buzzword" does not invalidate it. There is no central authority that tells us "okay, this is what x-ism means, so you can talk about it now". Language evolves by people looking for or creating words to describe things they don't have words for yet. You think people just woke up one day ready to talk about sexism and racism? Any new socially progressive term is always met with pushback and these terms don't survive unless they keep getting used. The act of telling people not to use a term because it's not as legitimate as other terms is itself way to delegitimize the term.

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Exactly.

As with other terms that could be called buzzwords, there's usually a very good reason why there is buzz surrounding the discussion, and the majority of the time people calling it a buzzword are trying to be reductive and delegitimise the claim.

 

[Budi]

I am speaking specifically for me

I know as a man my penis can get hard by touch even if I'm not aroused. A woman would then have to over power me if she wanted to insert it insider of her or she tried to penetrate me I am speaking specifically for me

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Apologies, I don't really follow. I have hard time understanding what you mean by this. Like what does this mean in the context of my post? Not a native English speaker so I'm bit lost sometimes. And I don't want to misunderstand something on such a sensitive issue.

 

[Deepthought_]

Apologies, I don't really follow. I have hard time understanding what you mean by this. Like what does this mean in the context of my post? Not a native English speaker so I'm bit lost sometimes.

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I actually meant to reply to the guy you quoted it is my fault

 

[Morrigan]

My Father never really had much to do with me but on one Halloween he came with us for the annual trick or treating. I was 8 I think. It was early in the night and I had just received candy from a woman and I had noticed the lights in her windows displaying an awesome purple glow and I told her how pretty it was. My father overheard this and shamed me publicly for describing something as pretty. And he just wouldn't let it go. He berated me for the next several houses. Warning me not to say any "sissy shit" to people. Needless to say I eventually began to cry and the night was ruined. I just asked to go home.

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That's awful and ridiculous. I can't even imagine being upset at an adorable little boy saying something is pretty. Like, what the fuck. :( Sorry you had to deal with this, and thank you for sharing.

 

[Deleted member 4037]

Disagree, it covers a lot but it's a specific term for a specific thing and the majority of the time I see it used the usage is correct.

I see a LOT of men react to being called out for toxic masculinity by stating something like the above, though, that the phrase is meaningless and doesn't count for the situation their discussing at the time (when it almost always does).

The real problem, as usual, is the cis straight male knee-jerk reaction (not saying you btw, I don't know who you are) when discussing these things. They feel their privilege threatened and get hyper-defensive and usually start shouting about "pc culture gone mad" or "femenazis" or some other crap not even relate to the issue.

Toxic Masculinity is a huge problem. Not only for the men caught up in the social expectations of TM, but also because it has a huge knock on effect for minority groups such as transgender people, non-binary people, other LGBT people, etc...

It's not a buzzword, it's a very real thing that needs directly addressing.

Click to shrink...

Sure its a real thing, but as a term the way its used covers so many issues and people are always drawing lines between what is conventionally masculine and what is considered to be inherently toxic behavior. The term is so vast that everyone has different ideas about what is covered within it and the conversation around it lacks a specificity to it. Its like if a doctor tells someone they have a disease, assuming they are right there is a large variety of diseases that could be. Similarly there are many things covered under toxic masculinity, but very rarely does any case exhibit all the things people attribute to it. Its much better to be precise with arguments as to why something is, the term toxic masculinity leaves so much in the air in terms of interpretation that it really is the lesser way to go about an argument. It is a real problem, but the problem. The term speaks to the procurement rather than the issue

 

[Deleted member 3897]

Listening to this right now, never heard it before.

 

[Budi]

Listening to this right now, never heard it before.

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Carlin was a treasure. This reminded me of documentary called The Work. Documentary crew got to film inside Folsom prison in their group therapy sessions. Some explosive repressed emotions coming out. Father issues were prevalent, as Carlin also mentions. Saw it when it was shown next to a discussion about toxic masculinity.


Recommendation from me.

 

[SugarNoodles]

I learned at age 6 that me sitting with girls at lunch was something to laugh at. I learned shortly thereafter from my teacher that being made fun of for that was par for the course.

Boys pick this stuff up early.

 

[Budi]

I learned at age 6 that me sitting with girls at lunch was something to laugh at. I learned shortly thereafter from my teacher that being made fun of for that was par for the course.

Boys pick this stuff up early.

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Luckily this was never the case for me. I don't know if it's because of the country I live in or was it just my school and people I knew. But spending time with girls as a kid never felt weird and I never got shamed for it. And I think spent more time with girls than boys, in hindsight our activities were much more fun and creative too than in the boy groups (where we played war of course, outside with toy guns and inside with figurines). It wasn't until the teenage years the separation between girls and boys started to show and a guy with mainly girls as friends were thought possibly to be gay. Maybe something to do with puberty, but things were very different in elementary and high school.

 

[HardTimesFamilyPride]

Sure its a real thing, but as a term the way its used covers so many issues and people are always drawing lines between what is conventionally masculine and what is considered to be inherently toxic behavior. The term is so vast that everyone has different ideas about what is covered within it and the conversation around it lacks a specificity to it. Its like if a doctor tells someone they have a disease, assuming they are right there is a large variety of diseases that could be. Similarly there are many things covered under toxic masculinity, but very rarely does any case exhibit all the things people attribute to it. Its much better to be precise with arguments as to why something is, the term toxic masculinity leaves so much in the air in terms of interpretation that it really is the lesser way to go about an argument. It is a real problem, but the problem. The term speaks to the procurement rather than the issue

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I take issue with this comparison because it's not applicable to every field. Psychology, for example, has diagnoses that include broad ranges of brain chemistry, mood patterns, etc. and which regularly change as new information comes to light. These terms are just to describe equally broad topics, and don't replace or displace where it intersects with other phenomena. It's more important that we are actually discussing these things than debating the semantics of it.

 

[jacket]

My perspective on toxic masculinity is that it's effectively an arms race of strength to appear attractive to women. This isn't, y'know, just locker room bros calling a kid a faggot because he's depressed, it's this seemingly universal but never discussed fact that societally women are attracted to strong men and repulsed by weak men, and men know this. Therefore it becomes this violent self-preservation strategy to disassociate yourself from any form of weakness as a man. You're not depressed, you're not anxious, you're brave, you're strong, you're in control, you have perfect agency, you can fix anything, you've got to be the big guy in charge, because not being those things is the difference between being loved and not being loved by the people around you - your friends, your family, your parents, kids, spouse, whatever. Here's a big quote from an interview with Brene Brown, who studies shame and vulnerability after finally realizing that men also feel shame (emphasis mine):

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Thanks

 

[Budi]

So I was about to ask this earlier in the thread, but backed out. Now that I have my confirmation for my assumption from the OP https://www.resetera.com/threads/so-i-need-some-dating-girl-advice.71368/
Is what is going on in that thread a sign of toxic masculinity? The importance of getting sex from a girl, even on a first date. And when OP reports back, people tease him for not fucking. It just felt increasingly weird to read, as I really didn't get the impression that OP was looking for a sex partner but a relationship. Yet the thread quickly focused just on sex and started pressuring OP. As if that's all or the most important thing woman can offer to a man.

If it's not toxic masculinity, it's atleast immature right? Also the replies are mostly from men. And nobody has to tell me that women enjoy sex too, I know. Would the discussion be similar though if all the roles were reversed, that OP was meeting a guy and then the posters were women mostly telling her to fuck him ASAP?

 

[Spinluck]

The belief that man can't be raped by woman is such a fuck up thing to believe.

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Same thing with domestic/verbal abuse. Some men that are involved in heterosexual relationships that are the victims of abuse often feel if they cannot put up with the abuse or mistreatment of a female partner then they are "pussys" or "weak." The idea that tolerating ridiculous behavior makes you a "man" is crazy.

On the flip, a man that is respectful of their female partner, and usually are in compliance with her are considered "pussy whipped." As if being a dick or disagreeing with something for no other reason but to let your dudebros know that you wear the pants...

We have long ways to go.

 

[Spinluck]

My perspective on toxic masculinity is that it's effectively an arms race of strength to appear attractive to women. This isn't, y'know, just locker room bros calling a kid a faggot because he's depressed, it's this seemingly universal but never discussed fact that societally women are attracted to strong men and repulsed by weak men, and men know this. Therefore it becomes this violent self-preservation strategy to disassociate yourself from any form of weakness as a man. You're not depressed, you're not anxious, you're brave, you're strong, you're in control, you have perfect agency, you can fix anything, you've got to be the big guy in charge, because not being those things is the difference between being loved and not being loved by the people around you - your friends, your family, your parents, kids, spouse, whatever. Here's a big quote from an interview with Brene Brown, who studies shame and vulnerability after finally realizing that men also feel shame (emphasis mine):

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This is pretty amazing.

 

[AndyD]

Saw this car in the neighborhood. Notice the stickers. Infowars, pepe, guns, toxic masculinity.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/eAcJY9hR1E5NPmUe7

 

[Budi]

Saw this car in the neighborhood. Notice the stickers. Infowars, pepe, guns, toxic masculinity.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/eAcJY9hR1E5NPmUe7

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I hate him already and haven't even met the guy.

 

[Deleted member 31199]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7ijrnuZk-A

 

[Wrath Of Exodust]

The performance of presumed masculine gender behaviours that are damaging rather than otherwise.

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Bingo.

It has been overused in its misuse lately. Sometimes to look down on machismo in entertainment which I personally find to be dumb.

 

[Deleted member 7130]

Bingo.

It has been overused in its misuse lately. Sometimes to look down on machismo in entertainment which I personally find to be dumb.

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So to point out TM in a medium that helps perpetuate "machismo" (that is harmful stereotipical masculine behavior) is a misuse of the term, according to you?

 

[III-V]

Hi. I'm a product of toxic masculinity. I grew up on a large piece of land in the northwestern part of Florida that was miles away from any neighbors.

Growing up I was extremely friendly and would often go out of my way to make friends with people. I remember on Halloween my mother would have trouble getting me away from houses because i would want to tell people how great there decorations were.

My Father never really had much to do with me but on one Halloween he came with us for the annual trick or treating. I was 8 I think. It was early in the night and I had just received candy from a woman and I had noticed the lights in her windows displaying an awesome purple glow and I told her how pretty it was. My father overheard this and shamed me publicly for describing something as pretty. And he just wouldn't let it go. He berated me for the next several houses. Warning me not to say any "sissy shit" to people. Needless to say I eventually began to cry and the night was ruined. I just asked to go home.

Every year around this time I remember this and even though I havent seem my father in 10 years now and I'm 26 now. I still live with this feeling of despair. I'm afraid to express myself around people. I have trouble revealing anything I like to anyone. That interaction wasnt the only of it's kind but it's one of the instances that stays with me.

That is the best example I can think of to represent toxic masculinity.

EDIT: My bad the introductory line was to highlight that i didnt have anyone to talk to. My isolation made dealing with my father even harder. Sorry I get a little heated even when I type this out.

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That sucks. Sorry to hear that.

 

[julia crawford]

Bingo.

It has been overused in its misuse lately. Sometimes to look down on machismo in entertainment which I personally find to be dumb.

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But dude machismo is like the de facto example of toxic masculinity.

 

[Morrigan]

So I was about to ask this earlier in the thread, but backed out. Now that I have my confirmation for my assumption from the OP https://www.resetera.com/threads/so-i-need-some-dating-girl-advice.71368/
Is what is going on in that thread a sign of toxic masculinity? The importance of getting sex from a girl, even on a first date. And when OP reports back, people tease him for not fucking. It just felt increasingly weird to read, as I really didn't get the impression that OP was looking for a sex partner but a relationship. Yet the thread quickly focused just on sex and started pressuring OP. As if that's all or the most important thing woman can offer to a man.

If it's not toxic masculinity, it's atleast immature right? Also the replies are mostly from men. And nobody has to tell me that women enjoy sex too, I know.

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Well, that sure was a thread. lol. I'd say probably more immaturity than anything else, yeah, but I can totally see what you mean. Dude was happy to just have companionship and everyone else was going on about fucking instead. Probably just projecting their thirst :P

Would the discussion be similar though if all the roles were reversed, that OP was meeting a guy and then the posters were women mostly telling her to fuck him ASAP?

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I can't answer this question because I've literally never see this happen. xD

 

[RedMercury]

TCKaos I read the whole thing, this was really profound to me:

So I looked to him and I said, "I don't study men." And he said, "Well, that's convenient." And my heart was just like, oh, God. And he said, "We have shame, we have deep shame, but when we reach out and tell our stories, we get the emotional [bleep] beat out of us." And he said, "And before you say anything about those mean fathers and those coaches and those brothers and those bully friends, my wife and three daughters, the ones who you just signed the books for, they had rather see me die on top of my white horse than have to watch me fall off." Then he just walked away.

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[Spinluck]

This thread has been pretty helpful for me...

I'm seeing seemingly toxic behavior that I myself have been lacking in both self awareness and self control to even notice.

Just really eye opening thread all around and I'm glad it got made.

 

[Famassu]

Sure its a real thing, but as a term the way its used covers so many issues and people are always drawing lines between what is conventionally masculine and what is considered to be inherently toxic behavior. The term is so vast that everyone has different ideas about what is covered within it and the conversation around it lacks a specificity to it. Its like if a doctor tells someone they have a disease, assuming they are right there is a large variety of diseases that could be. Similarly there are many things covered under toxic masculinity, but very rarely does any case exhibit all the things people attribute to it. Its much better to be precise with arguments as to why something is, the term toxic masculinity leaves so much in the air in terms of interpretation that it really is the lesser way to go about an argument. It is a real problem, but the problem. The term speaks to the procurement rather than the issue

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It's an umbrella term. Nothing wrong with those. That's like saying climate change is not a good concept because it's not accurate enough as to all the consequences.

 

[Deleted member 4037]

It's an umbrella term. Nothing wrong with those. That's like saying climate change is not a good concept because it's not accurate enough as to all the consequences.

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I agree, I would say the difference is that climate change speaks to the outcome (earth warming up) while toxic masculinity as a term speaks to the input (toxic male culture). Stuff like greenhouse gases attribute to climate change, while toxic masculinity outputs factors. Toxic masculinity isnt bad because people are aggressive or sexist, men are sexist or aggressive because of the toxic culture. The offshoots spring from there and it can become a odd line to draw

 

[Mage_of_Cinder]

"Alpha male" mentality best sums it up. Behaviors that are socially, sexually, physically agressive to feel "manly" to the point where it's harmful to himself and others.

 

[Cabbagehead]

My perspective on toxic masculinity is that it's effectively an arms race of strength to appear attractive to women. This isn't, y'know, just locker room bros calling a kid a faggot because he's depressed, it's this seemingly universal but never discussed fact that societally women are attracted to strong men and repulsed by weak men, and men know this. Therefore it becomes this violent self-preservation strategy to disassociate yourself from any form of weakness as a man. You're not depressed, you're not anxious, you're brave, you're strong, you're in control, you have perfect agency, you can fix anything, you've got to be the big guy in charge, because not being those things is the difference between being loved and not being loved by the people around you - your friends, your family, your parents, kids, spouse, whatever. Here's a big quote from an interview with Brene Brown, who studies shame and vulnerability after finally realizing that men also feel shame (emphasis mine):

Click to shrink...

Are you sure your not a teacher?

 

[Handicapped Duck]

Carlin was a treasure. This reminded me of documentary called The Work. Documentary crew got to film inside Folsom prison in their group therapy sessions. Some explosive repressed emotions coming out. Father issues were prevalent, as Carlin also mentions. Saw it when it was shown next to a discussion about toxic masculinity.


Recommendation from me.

Click to shrink...

Just rented the movie, will watch and come back with some brief thoughts.

As for the OP, toxic masculinity has already been described in-depth by everyone here so I don't see a reason on defining it again. Just know that it is terrible, and that the world would be a better place if us men wouldn't drag each other down over perceived fragility.

Edit: Just finished the movie, that was such a rollarcoaster ride of emotions. It was so open and raw with everything I vicariously felt like I was there. I'm not going to lie, I was crying during it, nearly bawling, I wanted too, but I wasn't pushed that far. What was so effective was the documentary-style, group therapy sessions that I kind of joined in alongside them. Seriously, holy fuck, recommend this movie for sure and I'll likely make a thread on it later tomorrow.

 

[TCKaos]

Are you sure your not a teacher?

Click to shrink...

Ha, that was the original plan but it didn't really pan out. Now I'm going to school for software engineering.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Ha, that was the original plan but it didn't really pan out. Now I'm going to school for software engineering.

Click to shrink...

damn, well that sucks. Good luck in your new field!

 

[TyrantGuardian]

I would say all those things are better defined, sexism is in the dictionary, its a word that has a agreed upon definition. Toxic masculinity is not, its a term that people are able to derive their own meaning from

Click to shrink...

Or, you know, it's a complex topic that has incredibly far-reaching impact on a wide variety of aspects in society and the reason the definition is broad is because we've only recently started talking about it on a mainstream basis. Relax and listen.