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fl1ppyB

Member
Jun 11, 2018
351
I really think Fallout has the benefit of being very aloof so they can more easily get away with "video-game-stuff-in-live-action." Like the stimpack and chems just being magic cure-alls works in Fallout and it doesn't have to try to justify anything. Fallout doesn't take itself very seriously so it's harder to nitpick.
 

basefree

Member
Jan 24, 2018
191
Anything on Paramount+ is automatically doomed to fail being one of the least popular streaming platforms regardless of quality, but I will say that Paramount's marketing game hasn't been that prominent, especially here in the UK. So many people already have Amazon and therefore Fallout is just easier to check out on a whim.
 

NDA-Man

Member
Mar 23, 2020
3,127
Pretty sure the issue is the IP, not a series of unconnected companies all failing at different projects using it.
I've got some uncomfortable news about those two games and the years in which they were released, and the changes a company can go through in 17 years.

Yeah. That's kinda where I'm at. Halo hasn't been the "it" thing for close to fifteen years at this point. Like, the only folks who cared are the people who've been on this ride since the 2000s and cared about the EU. And I'm gonna be honest, the engagement a lot of the old guard fans have with Halo at this point seems mostly out of spite.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,386
Fallout show is excellent and on Prime while Halo is awful and Paramount, I think it's both of those things more than anything
 

Flavius

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,332
Orlando, FL
I don't like the excuse that Halo's lore or universe isn't interesting or diverse enough to be compelling. Master Chief from the games is merely a blank slate avatar by design, with just enough backstory to provide some structure for the game.

The problem is Microsoft has done nothing to develop him as a character in well over two decades, and seemingly has no interest in doing so. The books have made some attempts (I couldn't stomach the show past the first couple of episodes...it seemed godawful). It's such an incredible waste as there is truly near limitless opportunity to make him compelling as a character.

It's a genuine shame that their once flagship IP continues to wither on the vine.
 

Garrison

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,921
Anything on Paramount+ is automatically doomed to fail being one of the least popular streaming platforms regardless of quality, but I will say that Paramount's marketing game hasn't been that prominent, especially here in the UK. So many people already have Amazon and therefore Fallout is just easier to check out on a whim.
There really is nothing more to say than this. No one has Paramount Plus. Fallout show is complete garbage and still got people going into the games which are actually good.
 

Silverhand

Member
Oct 26, 2023
895
Halo should have started just like the first game. Get right to a military campaign on a new world. Band of Brothers type thing. More action. Master Chief the central character.

Instead we get tons of lore and background and new characters that no one cares about. And asscheeks.

Why TV shows (and some movies, I see you WoW) like to start with prequel crap before getting to the meat in adaptations always blows my mind. If you want background lore, stick into flashbacks or something not entire seasons.
 

Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
11,388
I'm pretty sure the Halo show was actually popular with the broader audience, by Paramount Plus standards. The actual Halo community largely hates the show, but the game communities aren't the ones who make these shows into big mainstream hits.
 

Flavius

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,332
Orlando, FL
There really is nothing more to say than this. No one has Paramount Plus. Fallout show is complete garbage and still got people going into the games which are actually good.

Pretty amazing you managed to be so wrong in so few words. Paramount's subscriber numbers are more than adequate compared to other services, and calling Fallout "complete garbage" is laughably embarrassing. Swing and a miss.
 
Apr 20, 2022
1,851
I disagree with those saying Halo fundamentally wouldnt work as a TV show. It has elements that can translate well and we've seen done elsewhere in various types of shows or movies. You have super soldier in armour doing tons of action every episode, you could have the covenant be the menacing alien race like independence day or war of the worlds, pop some world building like visiting multiple planets like Mandolorian, the flood could be a horror zombie event. Even on his own Master Chief could have quiet introspective talks with Cortana such as talking about his life which could be shown in a flashback episode - imagine showing all the horrors of how he was made and Chief still saying how he will carry out the mission because that's his job all he knows, that's a pretty messed up way of thinking and could get some mileage instead of the typical hero finds out he was betrayed so he goes rogue we've seen done plenty of times including the halo show. Hell you could achieve all that in one series by taking place on a halo ring like the original game instead of the scattered prequel idea the TV show went with.

Halo has the potential to a cult sci fi hit like The Expanse, Battlestar Galactica, various Star Treks etc and with big push from say Netflix could have some mainstream appeal.
Paramount executed a terrible interpretation that had very little resemblance to the source material and neutered everything good about the games including Master Cheeks himself.
 
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NDA-Man

Member
Mar 23, 2020
3,127
Hard disagree. It's a pretty fascinating universe with a lot of room to tell a variety of stories, especially on the Covenant side.

I think there is s pretty big dichotomy between Halo as multimedia franchise where Bungie let random sci-fi writers literally dictate the universe, and Halo as a once-major series of First Person Shooters.

One has deep lore, honestly too deep to the point of impenetrability at this point. The other has a bright green space marine teaming up with Apone from Aliens and Keith David, Invisible Land Shark to fight helium munchkins while Audrey 2 spits fire raps.

And the thing is, the deeplore Halo is a hilariously small fraction of the fanbase, at least it was back when Halo mattered. The VAST majority of those familiar with Halo would expect grunt goofiness and obligatory Scorpion tank level, rather than child soldiers and religious schism.

Like Hell, the backlash against 2 co-starring an Elite and focusing on the Covenant politics in 2 lead to 3 demoting Arbiter to a co-op partner with zero levels of his own. Most Halo fans were literally so enamored of bright green space marine they shunned Keith David, Invisible Landshark.

I can guarantee even at the peak of its popularity, more Halo fans would hear "Blue Team" and think Church, Caboose, and Tucker than whoever Chiefs backup characters were in 5.
 

Dr. Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,927
Netherlands
Nah it definitely could've been done, all these video game adaptations show that really anything has potential, you just need the proper execution to get it done. It's not even like S2 was entirely bereft of any decent acting/writing, it's just that it dropped the ball as a whole.
Sure you can write good stories in every universe, but it wouldn't have included Master Chief and needed a redesign of the major aliens/weapons, and at that point how well can your IP still draw in people?
edit: ninja'd with a much better post by NDA-Man above me.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,454
Halo show is just a bad idea in concept. At least one that follows Master Chief as the sole and main protagonist. If it were a movie that could totally work. Some ~2 hours long very focused film like a Dredd could absolutely work. Focus on action, some major conflict/ticking clock, and a small but effective element to humanize MC and you're golden. Big dumb fun summer action blockbuster. But Halo isn't a setting for a drawn out serialized drama. Again, certainly not starring Master Chief. Had they been more creative and willing to take a risk and done something like the ODST live action shorts where you follow some other soldiers and their experiences in a kind of BoB type journey that's in the background of MC's big heroics that could totally work.

I think part of the problem is that they tried to make Master Chief be a hero outside of the suit. His main thing is that he's great at killing aliens.

But the main story in the show is John, the rebel seeking revenge against ONI and having a star-crossed romance with a covenant spy - and it was just stupid.

Having an ensemble of protagonists is the way to go, especially if they wanted a rebel plot. Chief is onscreen when it comes time to kick alien ass. And you use other characters to showcase other aspects of the universe. But for whatever reason, the show kicked off by replacing the insurrection from the lore with space witches.
 
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Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
106,275
Sure you can write good stories in every universe, but it wouldn't have included Master Chief and needed a redesign of the major aliens/weapons, and at that point how well can your IP still draw in people?

I mean that's just your opinion, I completely disagree that you can't make Chief or any other iconic imagery of the Halo IP work.
 

canderous

Prophet of Truth
Member
Jun 12, 2020
8,726
I don't think the Fallout cross promotions were that crazy. Putting the games on sale was smart but I doubt a vault 33 suit in 76 is why people are playing Fallout games right now. Especially when there is no cross overs in the most popular (FO4). Fallout is just a better show with a bigger potential audience thanks to the platform. Paramount actually marketed the shit out of Halo (especially season 2), though not as much as Amazon did for Fallout.

I also think Halo being on Paramount is the only reason it got a season 2 and will probably get a season 3. Even season 1 was a big success for them and it's one of their tent poles. This may not have been the case for some other streaming services. And some people in here acting like it was some travesty when S2 got a 90% on RT vs 93% for Fallout lol.

Fallout is a great show with arguably more appeal to more people. Halo is a pretty good sci fi show (S2 especially) but there is very little about it that stands out as unique as a sci fi show. Fallout has a unique style, tone, and setting and those who played the games were reminded of that, and those who have not played them are intrigued. Space marine shooting aliens is something Joe Sixpack has seen before and played before. I think even if Halo was a MUCH better show it wouldn't have had much of an impact on the games. People generally already know what Halo is as a game.
 

Harmen

Member
Aug 30, 2023
413
What works well with Fallout and TLOU is that the show respects its source material. Halo on the other hand just shits all over it, kinda like how 343 has handled the franchise.


Yes. And I personally don't really get why so many film and series studios fail to see this. Most successful adaptations do this (be it adaptations from books, comics or games). And a lot that have failed don't. Offcourse there are always exceptions. But most classics I can think of, especially in "nerd" territory, are quite faithful or at the very least respectful to the source. Recent examples would be Dune, Fallout, and The Last of Us. And sometimes you do need to deviate. One Piece is an example, but that one for sure treated the property with love.

I feel one of the big factors of the "videogame curse" of the past is that almost none of those films seemed to really respect the source material.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,521
Halo took a giant dump on the source material, so they lost much of the opportunity to have Halo fans promote the show.

Cross promotion with the games was basically non-existent.

For as expensive as the TV show was, and the fact that Halo is still sorta a tentpole for MS. you'd think that execution would be a priority.

Microsoft hasn't treated Halo right since it was handed off to 343, mainly talking about the story.
 

Justin Bailey

BackOnline
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,494
Writers probably have a lot more to work with in the Fallout universe. MC also isn't a very interesting protagonist by himself because he is the silent type, so he needs good supporting characters. I thought the pilot made Infinite work well. I haven't seen the Halo show myself.
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,060
Hate to break it to you guys, but the Halo show's first season was added to Amazon Prime (in the US at least) sometime after it premiered and no one gave a shit about it still. The general brand weakness of Halo in today's world with a show that struggles to even hit mediocrity makes it no wonder why it is not a The Last of Us or Fallout moment for gaming TV sows
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,297
Westworld had its missteps, but Johnathan Nolan can helm a series. Who the hell was even working on Halo
 

NDA-Man

Member
Mar 23, 2020
3,127
Yes. And I personally don't really get why so many film and series studios fail to see this. Most successful adaptations do this (be it adaptations from books, comics or games). And a lot that have failed don't. Offcourse there are always exceptions. But most classics I can think of, especially in "nerd" territory, are quite faithful or at the very least respectful to the source. Recent examples would be Dune, Fallout, and The Last of Us. And sometimes you do need to deviate. One Piece is an example, but that one for sure treated the property with love.

I feel one of the big factors of the "videogame curse" of the past is that almost none of those films seemed to really respect the source material.

Quality is almost entirely divorced from faithfulness, IMO.

Jurassic Park the novel is far more violent and jam-packed with screeds about fractals than the movie, which butchered Hammond from being a corporate shark to being a kindly grandfather. The novel opens with the park already having failed--dinosaurs had gotten loose on the mainland before any meddling. Muldoon uses antitank weaponry to blow velociraptors into salsa. The lawyer was actually a badass only sane man (the guy who panics and gets eaten is a publicist).

Jurassic Park, the film is a masterpiece.

Our pop culture understanding of Frankenstein as a childlike Brute has zilch to do with the novel, and everything to do with Boris Karloff's iconic turn.

Even in recent super hero movies, for all their efforts to show how they aren't afraid of yellow spandex like they were in the 2000s... they cull and mix. And combine a lot. Obadiah Stane was a business rival of Tony's who struck while Tony was at a low point professionally, personally, and in his heroics... until he was Tony's old friend secretly plotting his fall. Civil War did not have Tony Stark's interdimwnsional GITMO.

Like, they key element to an adaptation igniting intetest tends to be quality, not faithfulness. The two aren't opposed, but they aren't entwined, either.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,602
They really could have just adapted The Fall of Reach novel for the first 2 seasons and it would have been great. But nope had to get into weird shit. Also WTF at.

-Dr. Halsey's rapey lab assistant?
-Cortana getting cucked by MC having sex with a PoW (and thus committing a war crime)
 

wwm0nkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,602
I think 343 catch a lot of undue shit for things that are explicitly Microsoft's fault, in trying to over-leverage the Halo franchise rather than treating it like the boutique flagship IP it should be.
Nah there are just a lot of issues with how 343i has handled the lore tbh, that one isn't on MS.

Though MS is partly responsible for the MCC launch debacle by forcing 343i to use beta XBL integrations for development
 

EvaUnit787

Member
Aug 6, 2023
1,281
Fallout seems well thought out and very well planned.

It really helps that you got Jonathan Nolan on board. He and his wife always make amazing products (yes even later seasons of Westworld had quality even if not in story).

It also helps Bethesda leadership seems more protective of the IP vs Xbox who was even neglected Halo and done many disservices to it as a game.

Shit Bethesda had a kind of very negative run last year after Starfield, which I think was a ton of trolling/hyperbole, but they still were able to capitalize without a new Fallout game out. They just pumped up 4 and 76 with promo and it has been a hit. A good show got people interested in old games.

Halo was just bad. I turned it off in the first episode after a scene where they throw a rifle and you can really see how fake and bad the CG is. But it seems made by people that do not care about the game that much and the brand owners do not seem to care either. A Halo show with a new game or DLC or something positive could've helped the brand in such a big way. Should've gotten someone better and a better service, not Paramount. That service is good for reality crap, they don't even have Yellowstone which is owned by them for reasons.
 

Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
11,388
Halo was just bad. I turned it off in the first episode after a scene where they throw a rifle and you can really see how fake and bad the CG is. But it seems made by people that do not care about the game that much and the brand owners do not seem to care either. A Halo show with a new game or DLC or something positive could've helped the brand in such a big way. Should've gotten someone better and a better service, not Paramount. That service is good for reality crap, they don't even have Yellowstone which is owned by them for reasons.

I maintain that I think Halo S2 was a decent sci-fi show - it was just a bad Halo show.

It also did a piss-poor job of making the Halo WORLD something that you came away from the show thinking "man, I want to go play the games now so I can extend my stay in that cool universe", which I think is why the Fallout games are surging right now.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,602
In the books yeah, but no one reads those.
Almost like a TV show would be a perfect way to introduce people to older EU lore rather than going buck wild and disregarding book/video game lore

Again going back to The Fall of Reach as an example. It's almost written like a movie script, I really don't think they would have to try too hard to adapt that book to a movie/show
 

Darth Smurf X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,038
Hoth, WI
Halo S1 was nothing to go bragging about. But to be fair, S2 did give me the urge to play through Halos 1-3 again. Now if only they'd announce a PS5 version of the MCC.
 

NDA-Man

Member
Mar 23, 2020
3,127
Also, for all the "the lore" people, I dunno. Like, people will be 110% down to watch violent spectacle. We got 4 John Wick movies because Keanu Reeves shooting people in the head is super fun, not because of the deep lore of the High Table and Continental Hotel chain. The lore is just there as window dressing for Keanu to window through henchmen.

Honestly, that might've been the way to go with Halo. There clearly is deep lore around, but Chief has a job to do and it's not delving into his backstory or banging a POW.
 

Lashley

<<Tag Here>>
Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,174
You had the Halo cast smugly saying they'd never played the games as if that was a good thing.

Doomed from the start.
 

Mr Evil 37

Member
Mar 7, 2022
10,165
In the books yeah, but no one reads those.
Definitely not no one, especially the early ones. Edit: Also they wouldn't keep making them if no one read them.

Almost like a TV show would be a perfect way to introduce people to older EU lore rather than going buck wild and disregarding book/video game lore

Again going back to The Fall of Reach as an example. It's almost written like a movie script, I really don't think they would have to try too hard to adapt that book to a movie/show
In Season 2, they very much did not disregard book lore. It had fucking Onyx in it, which has only ever been seen or mentioned in the books. The Rubble from Season 1 and Season 2 is also a location that has only ever been seen in books.

You can not like the execution all you want, but to say they disregarded the books is not accurate.
 
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Patapuf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,439
CDPR also has lots of success with witcher and edgerunners. And the witcher show didn't even involve them.

Cross Media stuff works - but the quality needs to be there.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,248
to be honest it's probably not even worth talking about/comparing, Fallout the show is out of the box on another level compared to most prestige TV out there. obviously they're both game IPs but it's to a point that's almost irrelevant
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,871
Halo has the same problem Witcher does. The writers and showrunners (and IP owners) decided it was better off to branch it into a separate universe / thing, effectively making it irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Nothing that happens in these shows is relevant to anything that happens in the future in the Halo / Witcher franchises and IPs.

Fallout on the other hand feels like a core part of the Fallout franchise and IP.
 

Cirrus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,126
I only heard about the show several weeks after it had aired, and had only heard bad things. And even if I wanted to watch it, I wouldn't know where to watch it since Paramount+ isn't available here.

I think some companies really undervalue the international market, and the marketing bonus you can get when everyone around the world is talking about a show at the same time. Netflix, Prime, and Disney all release most of their shows internationally at the same time. The marketing for their shows is the same no matter what country you are in - "watch X only on Y"

Restricting your shows from markets just so you can sell syndication rights at a later time probably hurts some of the marketing.
 

jungius

Member
Sep 5, 2021
2,365
id also argue fallout has much more interesting backgrounds and settings than halo (genericky scifi), this intrigue many users more
 

Hero_of_the_Day

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
17,397
I would love to know real numbers on Halo viewership. Cause that show doesn't seem to exist. I have never heard anyone talk about it. Out of all my gamer friends, I am the only one who gave it a shot. And that shot ended after a few boring ass episodes. Amazed it got more than one season.
 

affeinvasion

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,961
I'm sorry but the Halo universe and story are not nearly as interesting as Fallout. It's pretty bog-standard Space Marine sci-fi.

Even aside from that, Fallout has some really strong performances from pretty much all of its leads and supporting cast. Halo's main character is a guy always in a suit where you never see their face.