Famitsu (They publish Weekly Famitsu) interviews the creators of iGi (indie Game incubator) from Marvelous [DeepL translated]

ggx2ac · Apr 1, 2021

Source: https://www.famitsu.com/news/amp/202104/01216792.php?__twitter_impression=true

The article source is in Japanese and has been machine translated to English using DeepL.

Danger: This article is very long.
Recommendation: Read all of it.
Why: To understand all aspects of iGi.

The DeepL translation starts below and I've segmented the article into numbered quote boxes like bookmarks. (The bolded lines is from the interviewer speaking, the underlined are headings.)

1: Intro

Marvelous has launched Japan's first indie game incubation program, the "iGi indie game incubator" (hereafter referred to as iGi).

Incubation refers to activities that support the creation and establishment of businesses. Marvelous has been supporting indie games for some time now, but through iGi, they plan to create an environment where more indie game developers can grow. iGi will be accepting applications for participating teams from March 15 to April 18, and will then run for six months from June to November. After that, the program will be held for six months from June to November.

Here, we asked Mike Haruki Yamazaki of Marvelous, Takaaki Ichijo of Head High, who will be helping to run the program, and Sho Sato of Ludims about the background of the inauguration and future prospects.

2: The people being interviewed

Mr. Mike Haruki Yamazaki (center in photo)

Marvelous
Business Producer, Overseas Business Promotion Office
(Yamazaki in the text)

Mr. Takaaki Ichijo (left in photo)

Head High
Representative Director / Game Artist
(Ichijo in the text)

Sho Sato (right in photo)

LUDiMUS
Founder and CEO
(Sato in the text)

3: How iGi was established

Industry-academia-government collaboration for the development of indie games

--First of all, please tell us how Marvelous established iGi.

Yamazaki: As part of the management support and assistance for our overseas subsidiary Marvelous Europe, I am in charge of investing in the development of indie games. I had a chance to talk with many development studios there, and I found out that many of the very talented teams, such as LinceWorks and Hero Beat Studio, are graduates of GameBCN, an incubation program in Barcelona, Spain. I had the opportunity to meet the Game BCN people at gamescom and was so impressed with their policies that Marvelous Europe decided to become a sponsor of GameBCN.

What I realized again was that there were many programs of this kind in the US and Europe, but very few in Japan. So, in consultation with Oscar (Oscar Saun) of GameBCN, I decided to launch an incubation program in Japan as well.

Then, my old friend Mr. Sato and I were introduced to Mr. Ichijo by Mr. Sato, and we started iGi. Mr. Sato was originally a chief analyst in the international department of Media Create and has a great understanding of emerging countries. Mr. Ichijo is an indie game creator himself and has a lot of knowledge about the indie game industry in Japan, so we were eager to have him join us.

4: The appeal of GameBCN

-- What did you find attractive about GameBCN?

Yamazaki: BCN stands for Barcelona, and the local government of Barcelona supports everything, so the production support is very strong. Above all, it's wonderful to see the industry-academia-government collaboration that has been established.

Sato: There are incubation programs in various countries, such as Sweden's Swedish Game Arena and Malaysia's Game Founders Asia, which was in operation until a few years ago, but the structure of these programs naturally differs from country to country. In the case of programs in the U.S., although the nature of the country may have something to do with it, there are not that many programs that are based on industry-academia-government collaboration, and investors are more likely to support game development.

In Asia, we often support schools to help current students create indie games, or provide a place to support new indie game teams.

When we look at the structure and results of various incubation programs in the long run, it is quite important to see whether or not they are well supported by industry-academia-government collaboration. GameBCN works very well because it is supported by the "government".

The Swedish Game Arena, which I mentioned earlier, is another successful example of industry-academia-government collaboration. This program is an initiative of a local town in Sweden called Skövde, which has about 50,000 people, and the university and local government are working closely together to develop the game industry. In Skövde, a hit game called "Goat Simulator" was created. The recent hit "Valheim" also came out of this town.

5: more about the above

--That's great.

Sato: The Swedish Game Arena is a hub in many ways, and there is a big difference between the best programs and those that are not so good.

On the other hand, GameBCN is also supported by game publishers, so we can make a discerning judgment on whether a title will be a hit or not. GameBCN is a very well functioning organization as an incubation program overseas.

6: Why the need for an incubation program

--Did you both feel the need for an incubation program in Japan?

Sato: Yes. In the past few years, indie games in Southeast Asia, such as Malaysia and Indonesia, have been gaining recognition worldwide, and I recognize that the incubation program has played a major role in this. For example, I think that the incubation program was very important in creating a connection where people on the front lines could give advice when they had trouble with development. So, when Mr. Yamazaki told me about this, I knew I had to help.

Ichijo: While exhibiting at various events as an indie game developer and interacting with developers from other countries, I learned that in other countries, there are incubation programs and the industry, academia, and government are working together to nurture indie games. I had a sense of crisis that this was not happening in Japan, and iGi was the one to fill that void. I myself have great expectations for iGi.

7: more about the above

--In other words, it is rather strange that there was no incubation program in Japan.

Ichijo: That's right. There have been one-off contests to support creators, but nothing on an ongoing basis.

Sato: Recently, I had the opportunity to give a presentation to people in the U.S. and the U.K. asking them, "Would you like to become a partner of iGi?" When I told them that we had established the first incubation program in Japan, they said, "What! You didn't have one in Japan yet?" They were very surprised.

8: why hasn't there been an incubation program in Japan?

--Why wasn't there one, I wonder?

Ichijo: In Japan, I feel that support for creators who are taking on new challenges, regardless of whether they are in games or not, is still in its infancy. There was a time in Japan when the game industry itself was very secretive, and horizontal connections were scarce until a certain point. As a result, I think that the relationship between the industry and the people who make games on a small scale is still limited.

When I go to GDC and other events, I realize that the overseas game industry exists together with the indie game industry. Major game makers, small and medium-sized studios, and indie game developers exist and interact with each other in a gentle gradation, and there is no gap between them. In Japan, there is a division between "business game production" and "small-scale production," so I believe that by creating more gradation in the middle and interacting with each other, we can promote the development of the Japanese game industry as a whole.

Yamazaki: For example, there are many overseas investors who want to actively invest in and interact with Japanese indie games and game creators, but many of them don't know how or where to contact us.

Sato: I have also been looking at various incubation programs around the world, and I noticed that there are many programs that want to interact with Japanese creators. In such cases, I would always say, "Japan has been famous for its games for a long time, but I'm sure there are interesting new creators as well." I'd love to meet them! I'm always asked. They want to interact with us, but until recently, there was no contact point to do so. I hear this kind of talk not only from people in Europe and the United States, but also from people in Asia and Latin America.

In that sense, I felt that Japan desperately needed an official contact point that could serve as a counterpart to communicate with official overseas game related organizations. "This is one of the reasons why I am emphasizing collaboration between industry, academia and government. Currently, Japanese creators are not getting the opportunities for international exchange that they should be getting. I think one of the most important points of iGi is to create a solid window for them to do so.

9: collaborators in mind

--What kind of collaboration do you have in mind, specifically?

Yamazaki: As I mentioned earlier, GameBCN is a program supported by the city of Barcelona and the region of Catalonia, but Barcelona's sister city is Kobe. They are also co-organizing an open data workshop on the theme of urban development x ICT, and they have been in continuous communication with each other. It is through this connection that Kobe City has decided to support this program.

The city of Kobe is also actively involved in supporting start-ups and IT-related companies, and from that perspective, they agreed with the purpose of iGi. We are planning to coordinate how they will support us in the future.

10: more of the above

--Oh, that's wonderful.

Yamazaki: As Mr. Sato mentioned earlier, a "window" is a window to the world, and I believe that a "base" such as a sacred place is essential for the spread of the industry. There are several universities in Montreal, and with the support of the government, there are several development teams that are very active in the industry. I think it would be great to have such a base in Japan as well.

11: more of the above

--This is a large scale story. Then, how about the academia (school) of industry, government and academia?

Yamazaki: We are thinking of making some of the iGi programs available to vocational schools in Japan as a curriculum that would allow them to utilize their own unique projects and tastes. We would like to provide students with a place where they can listen to indie game developers and consider their own suitability. This is something we are currently working on.

12: more of the above

--You are steadily promoting collaboration between industry, academia, and government, aren't you?

Yamazaki: Yes. Epic Games Japan and NVIDIA have agreed to cooperate with us in the industry. Everyone has been very supportive, and we're feeling a great response to the development of iGi.

When it comes to learning, I dream that there will be a movement in Japan where my classmates from technical school will form a team and establish a studio. Game development is a team effort, so there is a lot of loss when you have to form a team again after graduation. I hope that the style of working together for a couple of years in a school class, and then starting a business and launching your own project, which is common in the West, will take root in Japan.

13: what is focused on the iGi program

Prioritize creators' wishes while maintaining an ongoing relationship

--What exactly do you plan to focus on in the iGi program?

Yamazaki: We want to bring the best of GameBCN to Japan. In short, we want to support global development and commercialization. We want to help teams that are already developing games to release them worldwide. We would like to provide support in terms of production management, areas that need to be emphasized in terms of marketing, and things that need to be taken care of in terms of contracts, while also taking into account points unique to Japan.

Sato: We have video materials that we have been working on for the past five years at GameBCN, and we would like to make them more suitable for Japanese creators rather than translating them. There are many excellent indie game creators in Japan, but there are many hurdles that need to be overcome before they can deliver their creations to a large number of players, and it is difficult to overcome them without the cooperation of others. On the other hand, the incubation program is behind the daily release of various indie games from other countries, and I would like to help Japanese creators with great talents to reach the world in the same way.

14: domestic publishers and support

--In terms of support, do you think that domestic publishers are still lacking in some areas?

Sato: I think it is important to support creators so that they can continue their creative activities, in addition to supporting them in making their works good and selling them. I think this is an aspect that should be tackled through industry-academia-government collaboration, beyond the position of publisher.

Yamazaki: For example, if you're just a publisher, you're working only from the perspective of "production" and trying to make it work from a business standpoint. We want to create an environment where indie games as a whole can grow.

Ichijo: Of course, publishers who specialize in indie games sincerely hope for the growth of indie games, and they have been taking various measures to this end. However, I think it has been difficult to create a system that goes beyond the function of "publishing".

15: specific programs planned

--What are the specific programs planned for iGi?

Ichijo: iGi will support five teams of creators over a period of six months. Specifically, mentors will provide know-how in the form of interviews and seminars. The mentors consist of developers who have actually released indie games and business experts.

Sato: The reason why we use the word "mentor" is because we are not an instructor and a student, but rather a senior and a junior. When we explain incubation programs, people say, "Incubation programs are difficult for Japanese people to understand," but to put it simply, it is a dojo. It is like a dojo, where brothers and sisters train their younger brothers and sisters if they have any problems.

Furthermore, a mentor is not a person who teaches you one way or another, but a person who helps you improve together. For example, if there is an award or contest, we can enter it together as rivals.

The two i's in "iGi" are in lower case, the "i" of the indie game team and the "i" of the incubator mentor. The "i" of the indie game team and the "i" of the incubator mentor are in lower case, and the capital "G" means that we are making games together. In order to emphasize the equality of the two, words such as "teacher" and "class" are omitted whenever possible.

Yamazaki: So the incubation program is not a hierarchical relationship, but a mentoring program.

Sato: To give you an example, I participated in an acceleration program (*) three or four years ago, and even though the program has already ended, the relationships I developed there are still continuing. I still get questions from teams that have graduated. "I'm going to release a game in Japan, how should I promote it? We've been friends for a long time.

So, you can make connections that will be useful not only for the next work, but also for the next work after that. I think this is extremely important.

16: mentoring

--The mentors also participate because they feel it is meaningful?

Yamazaki: Yes, I feel that aspect is significant.

17: mentors

--Do you have more than one mentor for a single project?

There are two types of mentoring: one where multiple teams participate at once, rather than having a dedicated mentor for each team, and one where mentoring is done individually to pinpoint the problem. In some cases, we do not decide on the entire lineup of mentors, but prepare them upon request.

As for mentors, at this point we have asked Naru and Koich from Edelweiss, the developers of "Sakuna: Of Rice and Ruin". Nusso from "Fight Crab", and EIKI` from illuCalab, the developers of "The End of the World, You and Me" and "Gensou Sky Drift. If there are any requests from the participating teams to improve the game, we will find a mentor and ask them to help.

18: GameBCN reference

--Will the session be based on GameBCN's program methodology?

Yamazaki: We will use it as a reference, but the basics are unique to Japan, and we plan to create a new curriculum based on individual needs.

Sato: It's obvious, but the problems faced by indie game teams in Europe and Japan are the same in some areas and different in others. For the differences, it is very important to have a mentor who can directly answer the questions that Japanese creators are having. On the other hand, for the same issues, GameBCN will provide the recorded lectures and mentor sessions with subtitles.

19: more of the above

--Oh, I see.

Ichijo: Lecturing on the methodology of motivating the team, for example, is an area of commonality.

20: the materials

--I see. So, are you planning to record the exchange on iGi so that other people can watch it?

Ichijo: You are absolutely right. Of course, we consider on a case-by-case basis how much to disclose and how much to keep to the team, but the reason we limit it to five teams is to concentrate on mentoring specific to that team and to have the mentors feel comfortable talking to us. There are certain things that you want to talk about only with people who understand the game development situation.

21: criteria

--What criteria do you use to select iGi participants?

Yamazaki: Basically, the main focus is on the PC, and from there we are also thinking of expanding to consoles through ....... Basically, we are looking for projects where the prototype is working and the game has already been developed to some extent. We prefer to have a small group of elite members, but both individuals and corporations are welcome to join.

22: professional developers

--Are the pros okay?

Ichijo: I mentioned earlier that I would like to see a gradation of developers in the game industry, but I believe that there is no clear distinction between professional and amateur game developers today. I believe that there is no clear classification of game developers as "professionals" or "amateurs". So, it is open to everyone who is creating shiny works on a small scale, whether corporate or individual. There is no age limit.

Yamazaki: In short, we would like to support those who have not yet released their works to the world. Specifically, if a title has a certain degree of novelty, it will be easier to commercialize, but we would like to judge the submitted titles comprehensively.

Ichijo: I think it is more important to have a "highlight of a scene" that shows what the creator wants to express or convey through the game, rather than the level of perfection of the game. "If I have a hunch that a game will have an impact on players, I will definitely want to support it. "We place more importance on originality than on quality, so that we can make people say, "This is new.

23: expanding worldwide

--Is the desire to expand worldwide a prerequisite?

Ichijo: That's right. The term "worldwide development" may sound heavy, but if you are looking to release your game in multiple languages on Steam and build strong relationships with overseas media and stakeholders, we have great support. At iGi, we are actively working to connect you with overseas presentations and incubation programs, so if you only want to make games for the domestic market, you may not mesh well with what we have to offer.

Yamazaki: In terms of attitude, I think the best fit is for people who are looking for exchange both domestically and internationally.

Sato: The only thing I would like to emphasize is that just because iGi is based on the premise of aiming for worldwide success, it does not mean that you have to be fluent in English. You don't need to be able to speak English, so don't worry about it. Of course, we will provide you with opportunities to communicate with people from overseas, and we will provide you with simple training for that purpose.

24: advice

--For example, as some indie game publishers are doing, do you give advice like, "If you put your IP on this system, it will sell? Do you have any advice in mind?

Ichijo: That is something that will never happen. If it was the creator's own idea, we would like to support it. ...... On a related note, we don't have any say in the world view or core concept of the game, nor do we ask them to fix anything. Indie games are created because the creators want to make them. So, for example, when releasing a game on Steam, we will support the necessary aspects of the release, such as "If you don't add key configurations, players may get stumped." We are committed to creating an environment that allows creators to develop their own worldview and what they want to do.

Yamazaki: Our attempt is to provide an environment where we can let creators create what they want to create.

25: content

--You're not going to go into the content, are you?

Yamazaki: I give advice, but I never say, "You have to do it this way. For example, I would never say, "This is the strong point of this game, isn't it? For example, I would give advice such as, "This is where the game's strength lies, and it would be easier to understand if you did it this way," or "The trailer should be structured like this so it can reach everyone.

26: more of the above

--That's part of the reason why it's not a teacher-student relationship, isn't it?

Ichijo: The core of the game belongs to the creator. For example, let's say a mentor advises you that the font size of the UI is too small. If the creator says, "The small font is important for the world view of this game, because ......", I would not give further advice. Well, that's an extreme case (laughs).

This is my own feeling as an indie game creator, but when I have something I want to express in a game, I want to "do well" in areas that I don't consider to be core elements. At the same time, I'm sure they want to make sure that the game can be played without problems when it goes global, so I'd like to support them in that way.

27: lack of monetization

I want to continue to work on this so that good games can reach the global market.

--I understand that there is no fee to participate in iGi, but does Marvelous have any plans to monetize the event?

Yamazaki: We don't think about it. iGi is not a project that we launched with the intention of making money, but rather we are working on it as a kind of social contribution. The premise of iGi is to build an ecosystem for indie games within the game industry, and to support them in a sustainable manner.

While similar programs typically give investors a stake in the team or put revenue sharing into the contract from the start, Marvelous makes no claim to it. Marvelous does not insist on any of these rights. We do have the right to negotiate with each team on a preferential basis for publishing, but there are no strings attached. If a team decides on its own that it wants to work with someone else, it is free to do so, and Marvelous is not bound by its publishing rights. There are times when a game doesn't fit Marvelous' color scheme, but if it's published by another publisher, it might be a good match, or the fan base might mesh well.

28: publishing

--Do you have the option of not publishing from Marvelous?

Yamazaki: We do not promise that Marvelous will publish through your participation in this program. iGi is not a publishing program, it's a program to improve the industry, so if that results in a publishing deal with Marvelous, that's great, of course.

29: more of the above

--That's where you have to make a serious decision, isn't it? In any case, it is a graceful way of not asserting your rights.

Sato: I mentioned that there are many programs of this kind around the world, but these conditions are extremely rare. Globally, it's like acquiring shares or IP is managed by the management side of the incubation program. Sometimes I see cases where people are struggling with this, but I think this is a great thing from a global perspective.

30: GameBCN method

--How does GameBCN, which is a model in this regard, do it?

Yamazaki: GameBCN also has priority in negotiations. However, the main difference is that GameBCN is a non-profit organization funded by the government. GameBCN has been given the right to be the point of contact for participating teams and to promote GameBCN, but that is just the process of promoting GameBCN.

31: reasons for the program

--Did Marvelous decide that in order for the incubation program to take root in Japan, they shouldn't claim the profits for themselves?

Yamazaki: My biggest desire was to find and develop a new team.

Ichijo: The merits of working with a publisher will vary from creator to creator, and will also depend on the work being created at the time. The right of choice lies with the creator. It's just that we negotiate with Marvelous on a priority basis, but since we're on the same page for six months, it's probably a bit like an internship at a company. So, I think it would be good if you feel like you're working with Marvelous.

Yamazaki: I hope that facing each other for six months in this program will be a good opportunity for both of us to understand each other.

Sato: Also, as an additional note, we don't necessarily have to finish the game in the next six months. Some people may want to brush up the game further after six months of work. At the end of the six months, we consider the product of the program to be a build that can be presented to publishers and investors, called a "pitch".

Yamazaki: As Sato-san mentioned earlier, we both want to continue the community even after the program is over, so we'll create a channel and say, "Please feel free to communicate with us." I think that's the way it's going to be.

32: user's point of view

--From the user's point of view, what benefits, if any, do you envision iGi providing to users?

Ichijo: "I think it's fun to say that new and interesting games will be born from Japan. There are many creators in Japan who are working on creating interesting games. I think the simple advantage of this is that games will be released from there, and the choices will become wider.

Yamazaki: I think the most important thing is the excitement of the next generation of games coming out.

33: response from indies

--By the way, how was the response from indie game creators when you announced iGi?

Ichijo: The response has been great. There has never been such a program in Japan before, so I think there is a sense of anticipation, wondering what kind of support we will receive. We have received positive feedback from creators who welcome the establishment of such a program, which is very encouraging.

Sato: When I tell people overseas that I've started a program called iGi, they say, "Let me support it too!" I've been getting a lot of calls from all over the world, and I've been a little overwhelmed (laughs). (laughs) I am keenly aware that there are so many people in the world who have high hopes for the future of Japanese creators and wanted to support them.

34: goals for the future

--So, what are your goals for iGi in the future?

Yamazaki: We are starting this program with the basic premise of holding it on a sustainable basis. Our goal is to create an environment where participating teams and indie developers as a whole can continue to develop for as long as possible through this program and the community. I would like to continue to work on making good games reach the global market.

35: final message

--Finally, please give a message to those who are thinking of applying to iGi.

Sato: This is the first incubation program of its kind in Japan. I think there are a lot of people who want to challenge themselves overseas, and I would like to provide as much support as possible to those people. We would like to support as wide a range of works and creators as possible, so we would be very happy if as many people as possible would apply.

Ichijo: As an indie game developer, I'm trying to create a mentoring program that I think would be helpful for PC game developers who want to develop their games overseas. We hope you will apply. We hope you will apply for it.

Yamazaki: When you are working on game development, there are many aspects that are very enjoyable, but there are also many aspects that are difficult. I'd like to see people who are in dire straits during the production process, people who are wondering how to reach the world, and people who want to meet people with whom they can engage in friendly competition.

36: message

A special message from Oscar Saun, Program Manager of GameBCN

We are very pleased to announce the launch of our indie game incubator in Japan. We've been running the GameBCN incubation program for 6 years, helping indie teams succeed, mainly in Europe. We feel it is very meaningful to partner with Marvelous to provide Japanese indie studios, which have so much talent and potential, with the expertise to help them achieve international recognition and success. We can't wait for gamers around the world to experience the amazing indie games from Japan.

End

Nanashrew · Apr 2, 2021

That was a really great interview. The future of Japanese indie games feels very exciting after reading all this, especially for more potential international releases.

898 · Apr 11, 2021

I finally sat down to read this. Thanks for running the translation.

LostCauseUnite! · Apr 12, 2021

Todays indie japanese studios are tomorrow's Japanese game giants! Thanks for this.

Famitsu (They publish Weekly Famitsu) interviews the creators of iGi (indie Game incubator) from Marvelous [DeepL translated]

ggx2ac

Sales Heaven or Sales Hell?

Nanashrew

898

LostCauseUnite!