alpha

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,167
Like, it's crazy how many people literally go nuts over this to the point of anger and disgust. It's okay to like the mistranslated one better. Really, it is. But it doesn't change the fact that the name is the name, said by the creators multiple times before the release of the game, and after it.

Like, are all the people who are having big arguments and jumping through crazy amounts of hoops to justify their position this upset about Marth too? Because the official translation of his name is literally the same thing. Yet nobody seems to care and just accepts that he's Marth.
 

EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,894
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
I think it worth mentioning that while transliteration is definitely a murky art, "bu-re-tto" is the more common way of spelling the English word "bullet", not the way Barret's name is spelled. It's used on occasion, but it's not a set spelling the way "America" (a-me-ri-ka) or "paper driver" (pe-e-pa-a do-ra-i-ba-a) are. "ba-re-tto" is more commonly the name "Barrett" or even "valet" before "bullet".
You're right buretto is more commonly used, especially as general knowledge of English increases, but the Kaitai Shinsho The Complete book (basically the proto-Ultimania) mentions the bullet inspiration behind his name. The point isn't really that one is right or wrong anyway. It's more to illustrate the murkiness of the process, as you mentioned. It's pretty understandable to go from Bullet to Barret or Barett by romanising it back and forth, especially if you want to keep things clear for a Japanese audience.

I don't understand how it's arbitrary or inconsistent. The -th has been consistent in literally everything save for VII's official US text (not the code or things resulting from hacking), Tactics' original release, and Western merchandise from the time. The Western name is the inconsistency here, not the change to Aerith. Besides, I'm not sure how it's arbitrary when the creators have stated their intent, the issue isn't one of Japanese misunderstanding (like Sephiros in a small amount of 1990s ancillary material; it's a reference to an actual term), or purposeful localization changes (like Tina/Terra, Mash/Sabin, Reverse [Rebirth] Sephiroth/Bizarro Sephiroth, or Moguri/Moogles). You not liking an explanation doesn't make it arbitrary, not when there are actual statements of reason.
The author's intent is part of what makes it arbitrary though, since the entire process is. For actual words, you can course-correct after wading through the transliteration waters, since words have meaning. For names however, pretty much anything goes. It is what they want it to be, conventions or origins be damned. We know they started with the English word Earth, and somehow ended up with what we got. This is the argument I'd use against the Bullet name above.

As for the inconsistency, we have three spellings of her name, two of which are used in the games, merchandising and soundtracks. It's one thing to not bother to fix your ports (though I think this was a mistake), but they were still releasing new Aeris merch in 2011 with that music box. There's even our pal Barret again, whose romanised spelling used to be "Barett" in Japan, also changed. In his case though, the Western spelling got adopted over time, like a reverse-Aerith. They're not even consistent in which direction they were trying to unify all of this. The only way they're consistent is when we dismiss all instances they weren't, which is probably a bit too charitable of a read of this mess.

Like, it's crazy how many people literally go nuts over this to the point of anger and disgust. It's okay to like the mistranslated one better. Really, it is. But it doesn't change the fact that the name is the name, said by the creators multiple times before the release of the game, and after it.

Like, are all the people who are having big arguments and jumping through crazy amounts of hoops to justify their position this upset about Marth too? Because the official translation of his name is literally the same thing. Yet nobody seems to care and just accepts that he's Marth.
Marth's a good point of comparison, since he suffers from the same S/TH issue. I guess the main difference though is that we never had a Mars game in the west that people could get attached to.

Nintendo tends to fix mistakes like that in re-releases too though, like how they changed "Gannon" from the original Legend of Zelda in later versions. I wonder how much this situation could have been alleviated if they'd have fixed Aerith's name in many the ports. With every re-release, they just introduced new people to this mess.
 
Mar 18, 2019
652
I didn't say you should Respect the Localization. It's telling that people keep bringing up other problems with the localization to try and graft those problems onto Aeris, as if those other problems somehow validate changing Aeris's name.

It's not about respecting the localizer nor his work. It's about not rocking the boat of players by changing the name of a character that millions and millions of players learned to love over dozens of hours of gameplay and the most influential death in gaming. There was zero reason to change it. No one except a few people who followed development closely in magazines back in the '90s had any problem whatsoever with Aeris. Nothing was wrong with Aeris as a name, and indeed many really like the name, and millions associated the beloved character with that name. But then some dudes in Japan decided it wasn't "accurate" and after two games changed it, for no gain.

I don't care about respecting Woolsey or whoever it was that translated this one. But millions grew to know and got attached to and lost a character named Aeris. There was no substantial reason to change it. That's what I mean by respecting a localized name. Unless some big important thing (not as flimsy as "kinda sounds like Earth") is wrong wtih the translated name, consistency for the players is much more important than any gain you get. Aeris/Aerith arguments have gone on for nearly 20 years now. And for what? Nothing. It was a bad choice to "correct" the given localized name that was printed on millions of disks and sent out.
Regardless of how you feel, that doesn't change the fact that "Aeris" was an incorrect transliteration. The original creators have stated her name was always "Aerith". Most of the pre-release and post-release material have always referred to her as Aerith. In Japan, her official Romanized name has always been Aerith. Her name is derived from the word "Earth", not "Iris". And the name Aerith has symbolic meaning that represents an important part of her character (her connection to the planet Earth). When you change her name from Aerith to Aeris, the symbolism gets lost in translation. "Aerith" is more faithful to the original Japanese script.

Your "consistency" argument makes little sense. It would be more consistent for her to have the same Romanized name in both Japan and the West, instead of giving her two separate names for two different regions, which only creates unnecessary confusion. And since it's a Japanese IP, her official name in Japan should be her official name internationally. Square no longer refers to FFIV as "FFII" or FFVI as "FFIII", so there's no reason why Square should continue referring to Aerith as "Aeris". Incorrect localized names were common back in the '90s, but that doesn't mean they should continue using those incorrect localized names.

P.S. Ted Woolsey had nothing to do with the FFVII localization. But honestly, he would've done a much better job of translating FFVII than whoever they hired to translate it. Woolsey is an underrated translator, and Square made a mistake not bringing him back for FFVII.
 
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4Tran

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,531
There *is* such thing, though. This isn't just changing John Doe to "jyo-n do" versus "jya-n do-e"; it's an issue of missing authorial intent. Not preference, but actual intent. It's not a purposeful localization choice (look at how Tina was changed to Terra to maintain the feeling of an exotic name; no similar thought process is behind "Aeris" as far as we know, with the simplest explanation being the lack of "th" in Japanese), but simply someone being unfamiliar with the work.
Sure, but because of the nature of romanization the actual amount of intent here is pretty loosey-goosey. I'll happily accept that "Aerith" is what the creators were going for, but it doesn't change my point that it sucks as a name.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
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Oct 25, 2017
17,493
Aeris just flows off the tongue better for me. Aerith makes me feel like I have a lisp
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,006
Osaka, Osaka
The FFVII localization was rushed job, that after that Tim Rogers series, I now believe was localized by someone who didn't even get to play the game (or FFVI, or FFIV, but did see Star Wars at least).

I don't say Vicks and Wedge.

So I say Aerith. Also, I'm pretty sure they corrected her name in subsequent media.

They never fixed Zacks/Zax though.

She gonna be Aerith in that remake
 

StarStorm

"This guy are sick"
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,733
Played the game back in 1997, she was called Aeris, but I still called her Aerith due to all the games that came out afterwards.
 

BrandoBoySP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,196
The author's intent is part of what makes it arbitrary though, since the entire process is. For actual words, you can course-correct after wading through the transliteration waters, since words have meaning. For names however, pretty much anything goes. It is what they want it to be, conventions or origins be damned. We know they started with the English word Earth, and somehow ended up with what we got. This is the argument I'd use against the Bullet name above.

I'm not sure that you understand the meaning of "arbitrary", lol. This isn't someone's whim or something without reason; it's a thought-out choice that is reflected in the game's themes and her limit breaks.


As for the inconsistency, we have three spellings of her name, two of which are used in the games, merchandising and soundtracks. It's one thing to not bother to fix your ports (though I think this was a mistake), but they were still releasing new Aeris merch in 2011 with that music box.

The gold one? That's not from 2011; that's from further back, at least 2009 if not before that. It's also not put out by Square or Square-Enix; it's a third-party company. Again, though, the argument here isn't solely "Japanese merch has her name on it with the -th"; that's only part of it.

So let's break this down a little further.
-The majority of Japanese merchandise has called her "Aerith" from the beginning.
-Every officially-published Square/Square-Enix material in Japan, from manuals to guidebooks, have referred to her as "Aerith".
-The localizations of VII and Tactics were done by the same man; VII's suffered from him having almost no time, no context, and no resources to double-check intent or overall editing, while Tactics had a little more help from an external company but suffered from the same lack of context and resources.
-Japan can sometimes be iffy with spellings, though; they've also spelled "Sephiroth" as "Sephiros" (which is a straight-up error), amongst other issues in general. Because of that, if we set aside merchandise and written work....
-The developers have stated it was a straight-up transliteration of "Earth".
-A significant portion Aerith's character arc centers around learning to speak with the Planet.
-All of her limit breaks deal with the earth and nature.
-Every official Square-Enix release, from guidebooks to games, after the initial VII and Tactics + related merch has dictated the name is Aerith.

This is not arbitrary. This is intent.

Also true:
-People who shouted down anyone who used "Aeris" during the post-VII, pre-KH time period were worthy of eyerolls.
-People who insult you for simply referring to her as "Aeris" are ridiculous.
-You can continue to use "Aeris" when you speak about her.
-You can prefer "Aeris" to "Aerith".
-You can think they should have kept her name "Aeris".
-You can think they should have changed the name in ports if their intent was "Aerith".
-Changes to straight-up ports [VII, Stardew Valley, Telltale's Walking Dead] are rare and usually solely related to system differences and minor tweaks; changes to emulated ports [VIII on PSP/Vita/PS3, mostly anything under the "Playstation Classics" banner] are basically non-existent due to them being, well, emulated; remasters and such [VI Advance; Metal Gear Solid HD, etc.] are a different story, but VII's subsequent releases are not remasters.

What is striking me as weird here is that you're not simply expressing a preference for "Aeris"; you're ignoring the majority of information, authorial intent, and so on all for the sake of claiming that the use of "Aerith" is inconsistent and an arbitrary decision.

This differs from "Barett" versus "Barrett" versus "Barret" in that the pronunciation is the same for each spelling; it stems from "bullet"'s transliteration according to one of the official guidebooks, but "based on" is not the same as "is the transliteration itself", not to mention that the Ultimania, original manual, and other official Square sources all use variations on "Barret" but not "Bullet".

The only way they're consistent is when we dismiss all instances they weren't, which is probably a bit too charitable of a read of this mess.

Not quite. If we refer solely to materials published by Square/Square-Enix (taking away third-party merchandise, unofficial publications, and so on), we find a few things:

-"Aeris" in Western Final Fantasy VII as we see in the normal course of gameplay + all subsequent ports
-"Aeris" in Western Final Fantasy Tactics PS1
-"Aerith" in JPN VII manual
-"Aerith" in the Ultimania (JPN)
-"Aerith" in the Kaitai Shinsho (JPN)
-"Aerith" in Western Kingdom Hearts
-"Aerith" in Western Kingdom Hearts II
-"Aerith" in Western Advent Children
-"Aerith" in Western Crisis Core (JPN manual only uses katakana)
-"Aerith" in the 10th Anniversary Ultimania (JPN)

She's been "Aerith" more often than she's been Aeris". It's been, for the vast majority of actual official internal releases, consistent.

I wonder how much this situation could have been alleviated if they'd have fixed Aerith's name in many the ports. With every re-release, they just introduced new people to this mess.

They definitely could have fixed the mess, but to be fair, the only things they actually changed between versions are the button prompts. Everything else is unchanged from the 2012 PC release, which only had a few tweaks here and there compared to the 1998 PC release. A couple of item names were changed, but most typos, mistranslations, and the like were kept. I'd wager that the change in item names was due to it being a lot easier in coding than having to go through every single mention of, say, "Aeris" in the code and change it.
 

Deleted member 13155

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
2,604
Well, Aerith is her true name. And its been in western Square products since KH1. This is why I eventually started using it. Only in the western version of FFVII she is called Aeris, and perhaps the classic FFT easter egg.
 
Nov 1, 2017
246
DFW, Texas
It's Aeris for me just like it's Terra in Final Fantasy VI. I might begrudgingly accept Aerith but I will never accept Tina
On the flipside, it is Butz instead of Bartz because Bartz is just lame.
 

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,790
Never even knew Aeris existed till I heard people crying about it on the internet. Hurrah for playing KH1 first.
 

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,186
So, weird fact, and you can see this in two manners:

Aerith's internal name ID is set to "Aerith", much like how this works for all other party members (the only character I believe you can see this with normally is Red XIII, but it's because how the situation comes about for his name), so when the name screen is called up, you'll see what the game originally sets the character ID.

Now, what's unique in Aerith's case, is when the name screen for her gets brought up, there's an additional call, which changes the name right before the name screen loads, to change her internal ID to Aeris. To my knowledge, hers is the only one to do this. You can actually see her original ID under two circumstances:

1. If you do the Gate Skip near the beginning of the game where two Shinra Guards are standing in front of a passage way, you can access an unused warp that takes you to the run down Playground. When you go to the right of the screen and then enter the next area, the game will force anyone who isn't Cloud out of the party (it's recommended you do the skip after the Bar sequence, otherwise you'll be locked out of the materia menu), and then add Aerith to the party. Because the flag for the name screen never happens, you can see the internal ID for her name, which is Aerith.

2. If you add Aerith via the Debug menu, which can only be brute forced, you can see her original ID as Aerith here as well.

At some point, I don't know when this occurred, the localizers added a quick function call before the name screen crops up, and renames her to Aeris. It's almost completely intentional, despite everything else pointing to Aerith internally. Why? I honest to god don't know. And it seems there was a disconnect between parties working on the localization that led to this, however.
The debug rooms are pretty wacky! I was poking through 'em last night an found no instance of "Aeris" in 'em. Aerith, AERITH, Earith, earith, Princess... but no Aeris! Ya can jump into a part of the game after she's already joined up an depending on the room you recruited her in those names are what she'd have. Its really, really mysterious! Other characters names in there come up mangled (Ballet lol) but none as much as hers is. Wonder at which point that quick call thing was added. Anyone got game mags from '97 lying around? lol. Seeing as its Aeris in the instruction book at some point marketing made their mind up on her name and made the programmers do a quick fix.
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
Because the intent behind her name was supposed to be a combination Air+Earth. Erego, Aerith.
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerith_Gainsborough#cite_note-kaitai-28

Yes, that is wikipedia, but I'm linking to the citations and not their quote, which is an edition of Famitsu. I also think I've heard it stated elsewhere on this forum with other sourcing.

1. I don't see the words "combination" and "air" in that article.

2. Anyone can make up quotes on Wikipedia, especially when the reference conveniently doesn't mention the actual citation or even a translation of it.

3. The reference isn't an edition of Famitsu. It's a game guide that was published by Famitsu. Which means not by Square Enix. The author of the book could just have made up their own interpretation.
 

magatsu124

Member
May 11, 2018
236
She was Aeris in FF7 when i played it, and Aeris in FF Tactics when i played it, so she'll always be Aeris to me. I'll never understand why they tried to change it even if it was meant to be Aerith. It only makes things confusing.
 

Polioliolio

Member
Nov 6, 2017
5,410
Even if 'Aeris' is a mistake, that's how the Japanese are pronouncing the name anyway.

It's Aeris. It's fine.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,320
Los Angeles, CA
I still call her Aeris, because that was her name in the US version when I played back during its launch. Even though I know it's a translation error, I can't think of her as anything but Aeris.

It's like a friend of mine. I was introduced to her by her middle name, and so I'm used to calling her that, even after I learned it wasn't her first name. She prefers to be called by her middle name anyway, so it worked out in the end. XD
 

Wulfric

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,982
The problem with Terra is not the localisation, but rather Square's insistence on making her blonde as the default colour choice in all the spin-offs since the original Dissidia.

I don't know why people get in a tizzy over this.

No one draws Link with hot pink hair because of Link to the Past. It was merely the limitations of sprite-based characters.
 
May 26, 2018
24,350
First thing I'm doing when she joins my parrt in FFVII remake is renaming her to Aeris. :P

"Aerith?"

"That's not my name." *puts on sunglasses* "I am... Aeris."

"Huh? I don't get what's- "

"...the last of an ancient, noble people. Brooding for over a decade in the slums, I have now awoken to carry the dreams of a million souls in my heart."

"Ok?"

"I am life. Do not try to stop me." *rides away on chocobo*
 
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TropicalFish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
725
When you've got early concept artwork from Nomura labelling her as 'Earith' the intention is pretty damn clear.

357


As per her article on the FF wiki.
 

Hieroph

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,995
I don't get the people who cling to an ancient mistranslation. "Aeris" was the result of a rush job just like "This guy are sick." The FF7 translation just wasn't as good as it could have been.