Final Fantasy composer Nobuo Uematsu discusses Memory Limitations, Hollywood style scores & A.I

[Bishop89]

Link

In an extended NewsPicks interview with Nobuo Uematsu by Japanese academic Yoichi Ochiai, the veteran Final Fantasy series composer gave his thoughts on current and future game music. As well as discussing the limitations he had to work around when composing game soundtracks in the 1980s and 1990s, Uematsu also shared advice for aspiring game music composers and his thoughts on AI compositions.

Click to shrink...

Evolution of Memory Limitations

In the NewsPicks video interview, Nobuo Uematsu stated that "music played the role of oxygen" for 8-bit games, effectively bringing their stories and characters to life, as the games had small sprites and no voice acting. He also discussed the memory limitations he had to work within, especially in the NES, SNES and PS1 generations.


"On the SNES, the capacity increased and I was able to use samples of say the violin or the flute, then compress these over and over." However, only 8 sounds could be played at the same time and samples used up space, so "I was still worrying about not having enough memory during the SNES days." With Final Fantasy VII being developed for the PlayStation 1's CD-ROM format, Uematsu explained that "It was now possible to stream the music, as in take what I had made in the studio and reproduce it (in the game). However, if I did that it would take a very long time to load in. I think fans would complain if they charged into battle and then it went into a loading screen." Therefore, in the Playstation 1 generation, Uematsu continued to use compressed sound samples to create engaging looping melodies, achieving a balance between the available memory and sound quality.


He explains that from the PlayStation 2's Final Fantasy X onwards, game music started to enter "A period where we could pretty much do everything." Uematsu adds that "As game consoles have advanced, it has been easier for me to express different genres of music (like rock and jazz, etc.) within game music."

Click to shrink...

Hollywood style soundtracks

Uematsu goes on to muse as to why recent game music has become less interesting in his opinion. He suggests that the problem might be that directors and producers are "satisfied with movie soundtrack-like music in games," adding, "I think people need to have more freedom when creating (game music)." Uematsu thinks that if games keep using Hollywood movie-style scores, then the genre of "game music cannot develop further." On the other hand, he comments that "game music will become more interesting if composers consider 'what is something only I can do?' and use their own knowledge and experience to be truly creative."

Click to shrink...

A.I

The artist dismisses AI as a tool for composing music, emphasizing the role of music in conveying empathy between composer and listener. He states that composing good music is a difficult art that can only be realized by "reaching deep down inside yourself to find aspects unique to you and then expressing them."

Click to shrink...

 

[HolyJonte]

My favorite musician! ❤️

 

[Soulflarz]

GOAT, ty for saying games shouldn't just mindlessly follow hollywood styled music

 

[cw_sasuke]

After last week I got scared just a bit with the beginning of the thread title :-/

Expected but I like his take on AI usage when it comes to music.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

I agree that a lot of AAA games lean heavy on a drab cinematic score. My favorite tracks from FF16 were the ones that really got inventive and creative, which seemed to always be the boss battle tracks (like Vs Typhon- just sounded so unique, intense and otherworldly!) It's the DNA of what makes a moment memorable. It's why I love the Sonic franchise too. The music is always experimenting and throwing such a wide breadth of styles at you. This track is in the same game as this track is! I wish more AAA followed his mantra.

 

[mrmickfran]

Big agree on not caring for the focus on Hollywood style music.

Big agree on his AI opinion too. God I hope we don't get AI composed music in games

 

[thetrin]

He hit the nail on the head concerning movie style scores.

This is a big reason why a lot of AAA western games have totally forgettable scores. Those memorable looping melodies are the reason why Mario, FF, Zelda and other games have absolute earworm level soundtracks.

 

[Orioto]

After last week I got scared just a bit with the beginning of the thread title :-/

Expected but I like his take on AI usage when it comes to music.

Click to shrink...

I'm always worried when i see his name popping up on a thread title :'(

What he says about vg music being too much like movie soundtrack, it's funny cause i thought about that for the first time when i listened to Xenosaga ost back then and it was really boring to me compared to Xenogears for exemple. it was so serious and pompous.

That said i kinda think that about FFVII remake ost to... Having 30 alt versions of everything that plays at any moment (and multiple composers) makes the music feel really different and less identifying to me.

 

[Phendrift]

Its so satisfying to see the GOAT saying what some people on Era have gotten mad at me for saying wrt the Hollywood movie-esque soundtracks of modern (especially western) AAA

 

[Glasfrut]

I got so scared when I saw the "Final Fantasy composer Nobuo Uematsu"...my heart...man...😰

 

[Musubi]

Thank God he is talking about game memory. I was worried he had onset dementia or something.

Man is the GOAT.

With Toriyama passing recently I was thinking about other older Japanese creators and the body of work Uematsu has to his name is just stunning.

The FF7 Rebirth music only slaps so hard with its remixes because Uematsu set some really amazing ground work.

 

[ventuno]

There is a place for Hollywood-esque soundtracks and it's fine to go that route depending on the dev team's creative vision for the game, but favoring that style as heavily as the industry often does limits creativity. It's also just another way the legitimacy of video games is made out to be linked to its proximity to movies, when that's not true or fair.

 

[MZZ]

This guy is my fucking hero all my life man.

I don't necessarily think hollywood style soundtracks are inherently bad but the style disappears into the background too much for me. Which makes it seem boring or non memorable. As opposed to Uematsu's works and melodies that almost always feel like its made to be memorable and in the forefront.

 

[daegan]

I don't recall having seen a composer make that point about Hollywood-style scores before so I'm thankful someone of Uematsu's caliber is calling it out. (Your memorable tracks can't just be big setpieces - one of the best songs in Persona 5 ONLY plays in the weapon shop!)

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

Which games qualify as "Hollywood"? I don't think that really means much as a statement without examples.

 

[Vault]

everyone should copy 70s and 80s Prog rock

 

[jb1234]

Which games qualify as "Hollywood"? I don't think that really means much as a statement without examples.

Click to shrink...

Nowadays, the sound basically means heavily inspired by Hans Zimmer but without the tunes he was great at delivering in the 90s and early 00s. Most FPSs in particular consistently deliver soundtracks in this template.

 

[Poltergust]

I'll be real: the "cinematic" soundtracks of most modern AAA games is one of the primary reasons I don't gravitate toward them and instead focus on smaller-scale games (or JRPGs as they have mostly managed to avoid this pitfall). Going for cinematic flair over memorable melodic compositions leads to a less interesting experience for me.

Maybe it's a necessity for games of such massive scope, but at the same time I also do not want all of these to be 30+ hour open-world experiences either.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

Nowadays, the sound basically means heavily inspired by Hans Zimmer but without the tunes he was great at delivering in the 90s and early 00s. Most FPSs in particular consistently deliver soundtracks in this template.

Click to shrink...

For example? are BG3 or Alan Wake in that category?

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Which games qualify as "Hollywood"? I don't think that really means much as a statement without examples.

Click to shrink...

View: https://youtu.be/cMbJxZWAzuA?si=1t1TnRsG621YiDZ-

Don't get me wrong, I love Uncharted and the music is great and well made, but these tracks have more in common with theatrical cinematic score for a hollywood action film. And so many story-based/single player games have chased this style of music for their realistic, expensive games. Pick a random spot in the video, and I really doubt you'd be able to pinpoint what stage or story moment it played for.

Meanwhile I hear this track and this scene plays out in my mind, clear as day.

The problem with "hollywood" scores is that it all usually just ends up blurring together.

 

[Valcrist]

Uematsu is only 64 y'all. I'm sure he will be with us a long time!

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Uematsu is only 64 y'all. I'm sure he will be with us a long time!

Click to shrink...

One can hope, we've kind of lost a lot of creatives of note around that age or younger lately :(

 

[Poltergust]

For example? are BG3 or Alan Wake in that category?

Click to shrink...

About BG3 specifically, I've played through most of Act 1 recently and the only song I can specifically recall from that game is the "Down by the River" theme and its variants. A lot of it just kinda… blends together.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

View: https://youtu.be/cMbJxZWAzuA?si=1t1TnRsG621YiDZ-

Don't get me wrong, I love Uncharted and the music is great and well made, but these tracks have more in common with theatrical cinematic score for a hollywood action film. And so many story-based/single player games have chased this style of music for their realistic, expensive games. Pick a random spot in the video, and I really doubt you'd be able to pinpoint what stage or story moment it played for.

Meanwhile I hear this track and this scene plays out in my mind, clear as day.

The problem with "hollywood" scores is that it all usually just ends up blurring together.

Click to shrink...

I don't think the FFX track would fit so well in something like UC4. I don't remember individual tracks from Uncharted's levels, I just remember feeling immersed and that means it did its job well. TLOU2 I do remember some tracks, but they're still often mood setting pieces without much priority to melody.

About BG3 specifically, I've played through most of Act 1 recently and the only song I can specifically recall from that game is the "Down by the River" theme and its variants. A lot of it just kinda… blends together.

Click to shrink...

BG3 definitely seems to be more subdued. BG2 I remember most of the soundtrack because its louder, more digital sounding with some bespoke area themes. But I also don't think BG2 style soundtrack would really work for the game they made, which is more open, more deliberate and strategic (and slow).

 

[Lydecker]

Uematsu goes on to muse as to why recent game music has become less interesting in his opinion. He suggests that the problem might be that directors and producers are "satisfied with movie soundtrack-like music in games," adding, "I think people need to have more freedom when creating (game music)." Uematsu thinks that if games keep using Hollywood movie-style scores, then the genre of "game music cannot develop further." On the other hand, he comments that "game music will become more interesting if composers consider 'what is something only I can do?' and use their own knowledge and experience to be truly creative."

Click to shrink...

This x 1000. Gone is the creativity in this era of Hans Zimmerisation of game music.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

I don't think the FFX track would fit so well in something like UC4. I don't remember individual tracks from Uncharted's levels, I just remember feeling immersed and that means it did its job well. TLOU2 I do remember some tracks, but they're still often mood setting pieces without much priority to melody.

Click to shrink...

I didn't mean that I wanted that track to slot into something like Uncharted. Moreso that FFX's Wandering is an incredibly distinct and unique track that was composed for for a very specific emotional turning point in the story. Almost every track in FFX is. No piece of the OST can be mistaken for the other because every note is rooted into a specific feeling or atmosphere in the game.

It's totally cool that you felt immersed with UC's soundtrack, I did too while playing it. BUT the fact that you or I can't remember most of, or even care to return to any particular music that hit at any given point in the game is kind of what myself (and I believe Uematsu/other posters) are getting at here. Music shouldn't default to the generic big budget soundscape of hollywood movies and should seek to elevate the content it's backing so that it DOES make that particular stage or moment memorable, no matter how big or small. Yeah scenes can be memorable on their own, but the music should act as a fingerprint unique to that moment. I'm picking on Uncharted a lot here even though I don't hate the game or music, but if I swapped the tracks for a shootout at the start of the game, and one in the last act, I doubt you could tell the difference, and that's the problem I'm getting at.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

It's totally cool that you felt immersed with UC's soundtrack, I did too while playing it. BUT the fact that you or I can't remember the music that hit at any given point in the game is kind of what myself (and I believe Uematsu/other posters) are getting at here. Music shouldn't default to the generic big budget soundscape of hollywood movies and should seek to elevate the content it's backing so that it DOES make that particular stage or moment memorable, no matter how big or small.

Click to shrink...

I don't think it does default to generic bug budget Hollywood movies though? Maybe some "triple A" titles do. Going by last year Spiderman and Starfield kind of could be considered that (I haven't played much of it), but AW2 and Phantom Liberty not so much. Jedi Survivor getting the game music grammy while something like FF XVI isn't even there was kind of wack, but it was still an impressive OST that perfectly fit the Star Wars setting and being a movie like score makes perfect sense there. To me it seems more like a symptom of some expensive games were emulating blockbusters in presentation, not just that the music alone was.

 

[jb1234]

For example? are BG3 or Alan Wake in that category?

Click to shrink...

BG3 no because it has a sound of its own. You may or may not find it memorable but it doesn't sound much like your average movie score these days. No BRAAAAAMS, chugga chugga strings, heavy use of electronics.

Alan Wake I haven't heard. Jedi Survivor is an excellent example of a score you'll almost never hear in Hollywood anymore.

 

[Calabi]

I don't think it does default to generic bug budget Hollywood movies though? Maybe some "triple A" titles do. Going by last year Spiderman and Starfield kind of could be considered that (I haven't played much of it), but AW2 and Phantom Liberty not so much. Jedi Survivor getting the game music grammy while something like FF XVI isn't even there was kind of wack, but it was still an impressive OST that perfectly fit the Star Wars setting and being a movie like score makes perfect sense there. To me it seems more like a symptom of some expensive games were emulating blockbusters in presentation, not just that the music alone was.

Click to shrink...

Just to point out that the Indiana Jones movies which the Uncharted games are kind of a derivative of. The ones scored by John Williams have really memorable soundtracks. So it is possible I just think it's a matter of the developers not prioritising it enough, and getting artists creative enough.

 

[z1ggy]

Yeah i noticed the hollywood influence on game music and its getting annoying and boring.

 

[Speedstersonic]

I don't think any game in the last 5 years earwormed me enough to go get their soundtracks except Star Rail of all things. Beyond that the only other recent game i can think of with an amazing soundtrack was Hollow Knight and even that's 7 years older at this point. It really feels like game music has gotten stale or just isn't good like it used to be. You don't get strong recognizable melodies anymore. I used to get sheet music of different games' soundtracks for piano as well in the early 2000s but hell even those stopped getting made.

 

[Demon Lizardman]

Maybe in AAA games, but smaller budget and indie titles, going strong.

 

[JuicyPlayer]

I've beat last of us countless times and I couldn't tell you any of the music from the game.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Uematsu goes on to muse as to why recent game music has become less interesting in his opinion. He suggests that the problem might be that directors and producers are "satisfied with movie soundtrack-like music in games," adding, "I think people need to have more freedom when creating (game music)." Uematsu thinks that if games keep using Hollywood movie-style scores, then the genre of "game music cannot develop further." On the other hand, he comments that "game music will become more interesting if composers consider 'what is something only I can do?' and use their own knowledge and experience to be truly creative."

Click to shrink...

He's not wrong. Game music is pretty boring when it just sounds like background music from a movie. Good game music should be dripping with personality and a major part of the experience itself, instead of just loud orchestras and the occasional dramatic choir that blends into the background during the action.

 

[Bishop89]

I've beat last of us countless times and I couldn't tell you any of the music from the game.

Click to shrink...

I've played it twice and all I could remember, and part of that may just be because it has been used in a lot of promos for either part 2 or what have you, is the main tune


View: https://youtu.be/Pt1pOY3_W64?si=QRwJ3DPGH1vwl9Ha

Outside of that, nope.

 

[BeastmodeDynasty]

Happy to see Uematsu shit on Hollywood-style soundtracks in AAA games. It's especially bad in Western AAA games which generally have shitty, unmemorable soundtrack.

People dismissed this point as fanboy criticism for the last 15 years with no justification from real composers. Well here you go

 

[Kalentan]

I mean.. It depends on the game?

Like, there are games where a more Hollywood style of OST makes sense, and then there are others where a more "gamey" OST also makes sense.

TLOU wouldn't be better if it had FF7 Rebirth's Soundtrack and vice versa.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I mean.. It depends on the game?

Like, there are games where a more Hollywood style of OST makes sense, and then there are others where a more "gamey" OST also makes sense.

TLOU wouldn't be better if it had FF7 Rebirth's Soundtrack and vice versa.

Click to shrink...

I don't know, I don't remember a single piece of music from TLOU. Like it doesn't factor into my experience one bit, because all the sad guitars just kinda blur together into background noise.

Meanwhile, something like JENOVA's theme has lived in my brain for almost 30 years.

 

[Kalentan]

I don't know, I don't remember a single piece of music from TLOU. Like it doesn't factor into my experience one bit, because all the sad guitars just kinda blur together into background noise.

Meanwhile, something like JENOVA's theme has lived in my brain for almost 30 years.

Click to shrink...

I think your missing the point.

The soundtracks had different goals to them. Some games go for OSTs that are more moody set pieces, while others go for music that is meant to be blaring at max volume.

Sure, TLOU might not be a soundtrack you listen to repeat on Spotify, but in the game moment, it fits perfects and helps the scene.

 

[NotLiquid]

Much like any aspect or art form, seminal works have usually arisen from the cognizance of limitations. I'm sure that many composers of the NES era would've loved to make their music as lush as possible, but with limited sound channels the onus was on the composers to primarily create something that could truly stick in the mind in the absence of texture, and Nobuo Uematsu is likely to realize this more than anyone as one of the all time legends of video game music. Nowadays with those limits sanded off it's so easy to get overwrought in said texture. I don't think this is a problem exclusive to games either, because these criticisms have permeated in the cinematic space as well; see Every Frame A Painting's "Marvel Symphonic Universe" which was cited by Mark Mothersbaugh as a video he took specific note of when he was hired to compose for Thor Ragnarok.

We've had some excellent soundtracks over the years which use Hollywood symphonics but usually that's because they exist to elevate tracks that aim to make a striking impression in terms of composition. My favorite example I like to use is Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze because it's such a perfect example of how to set a memorable tone. The first track posted is a symphonic rearrangement of an SNES track which only showcases the timelessness of composition, while the second one is an original. One is intense and the other is serene; both of these offer completely different flavors but they both still feel cohesive and evoke a variety of emotions without depending on mere texture. These melodies and compositions are engrained into my mind ever since first listen, and elevate the settings they're a part of to huge heights.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOwf-GdGEko

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Boqy0Q-4c_M

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I think your missing the point.

The soundtracks had different goals to them. Some games go for OSTs that are more moody set pieces, while others go for music that is meant to be blaring at max volume.

Click to shrink...

I mean it's not even about blaring volume. I just tend to vibe way more with songs that actually have a central melodic core to them, and less songs that are just trying to "be a vibe". In my mind, all of TLOU's music sounds like the same sad guitar plucking, and it's hard to differentiate one piece from another.

When every song is just trying to be an atmosphere piece, I tend to just tune it completely out. Some of that is because my ADHD makes my brain hyperfocus, and if the game's music isn't trying to attract any of that focus, it just gets lost.

 

[Kalentan]

I mean it's not even about blaring volume. I just tend to vibe way more with songs that actually have a central melodic core to them, and less songs that are just trying to "be a vibe". In my mind, all of TLOU's music sounds like the same sad guitar plucking, and it's hard to differentiate one piece from another.

When every song is just trying to be an atmosphere piece, I tend to just tune it completely out. Some of that is because my ADHD makes my brain hyperfocus, and if the game's music isn't trying to attract any of that focus, it just gets lost.

Click to shrink...

I mean again though, that's literally the point. TLOU OST has a very specific tone and style to it that makes sense in the moment. It's not a game or a series that really makes sense to have a score with a lot of variety.

Ultimately it just feels super dismissive of the work that is done with these scores and sort of tries to massively downplay how much they have an effect on the games themselves. Again, just because it's not something you listen on repeat or can hum, doesn't suddenly mean it's not doing it's job.

Like hell, the irony of this specific discussion is that, while mayhap not any individual score of TLOU is super memorable on it's own right, the actual overall style of the soundtrack is fairly unique still and if you hear any of the songs, you can tell that it's from TLOU because there isn't that many games or movies in general that have that specific sounding score.

It's not even just Western games too, while their songs are meant to be a bit more in your face, the Souls games soundtrack, Elden Ring included, very much are: "Hollywood-like" as well.

 

[Vic20]

I mean again though, that's literally the point. TLOU OST has a very specific tone and style to it that makes sense in the moment. It's not a game or a series that really makes sense to have a score with a lot of variety.

Ultimately it just feels super dismissive of the work that is done with these scores and sort of tries to massively downplay how much they have an effect on the games themselves. Again, just because it's not something you listen on repeat or can hum, doesn't suddenly mean it's not doing it's job.

Like hell, the irony of this specific discussion is that, while mayhap not any individual score of TLOU is super memorable on it's own right, the actual overall style of the soundtrack is fairly unique still and if you hear any of the songs, you can tell that it's from TLOU because there isn't that many games or movies in general that have that specific sounding score.

Click to shrink...

Most of these lads are still operating under the motto of " if I can't hum it, then it's not good"

I don't really see the point of trying to convince them of the merit of anything.

 

[Geg]

Reading the bit about soundtracks that just sound like movie scores reminded me of how badly Xenoblade 3 got robbed of best soundtrack at the 2022 game awards

 

[Woozy]

Playing through FF7 Rebirth is proving to me that you can have an AAA modern cinematic story game with blaring melodic tunes

 

[Lightning]

Which games qualify as "Hollywood"? I don't think that really means much as a statement without examples.

Click to shrink...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUdltNrSlno
vs

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdfBHv3O4Q8


Or... god


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAr0bJK0cKA
vs

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gib_GndgQ7U

Edit: lmao sorry SrirachaX

 

[SrirachaX]

Re: discussion about games chasing the Hollywood vibe of music

Ratchet and Clank 1 vs Ratchet and Clank PS4 (2016) is one example of this. I remember the majority of the original's OST even now, but I can't remember how the music sounded in the PS4 reimagining.

Take the track where you save Skidd McMarx in the original:

View: https://youtu.be/dya9s4M2KB0?si=n9qBZcDUnEe1Tn5F

vs the PS4's version:

View: https://youtu.be/mBunLrxli5Y?si=zPdGutLebL71ipWU

Like the PS4 version sounds like Action Sequence #123, but the original has some upbeat, otherworldly funky vibe that stays in your ears

Edit: first time I've been beaten, like getting hit by the Walloper lol

 

[Sabre]

This is another east vs. west thread right?

I have a lot of respect for Uematsu's work as well composers for other classic Japanese games, e.g. Zelda and Mario.

But equating Western AAA games with boring Hollywood music, as some here are saying, is reductive. There are a lot of different styles that work for some genres and can be memorable in their own way. There's many western games open world with great ambient music, that is very different from Uematsu's work but equally distant from Hollywood soundtracks. TES games, Witcher 3 and WoW for instance. These don't have the looping tunes of Japanese classics but they are great enough on their own right that I can put on their soundtracks and listen for hours while I work for instance.

 

[BeastmodeDynasty]

This is another east vs. west thread right?

I have a lot of respect for Uematsu's work as well composers for other classic Japanese games, e.g. Zelda and Mario.

But equating Western AAA games with boring Hollywood music, as some here are saying, is reductive. There are a lot of different styles that work for some genres and can be memorable in their own way. There's many western games open world with great ambient music, that is very different from Uematsu's work but equally distant from Hollywood soundtracks. TES games, Witcher 3 and WoW for instance. These don't have the looping tunes of Japanese classics but they are great enough on their own right that I can put on their soundtracks and listen for hours while I work for instance.

Click to shrink...

It's an accurate generalization to say most Western AAA games have Hollywood-style soundtracks.

That's not reductive it's just accurate.

 

[GalaxyDive]

Thank you, king. I've been on the Hollywood thing for 20 years now.

And, no, it's not an east vs west thing (though yes, it's an established pattern that western AAA games are much more likely to go the Hollywood route). Bungie's Halo and Destiny music, for instance (composed by fine people like Michael Salvatori and I think Hatsune Miku) has long favored a lot of melodic compositions and hummable themes.