FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE - Spoiler Discussion [Check Threadmarks For Story Details]

[Robotoboy]

Damn. Well, I'm a nobody, and my opinion isn't worth anything to anyone but myself, but DAMN.

This is hilarious. I am going to be laughing my entire way through this game. I'm not really a fan of Nomur/Nojima anything, because their plots are terrible, and their characters are paper thin tropes held together by cool design. That said I have SOME nostalgia for FFVII... more for FFIX, but FFVII was the first spikey haired protag anime thing aside from DBZ I experienced and 8 year old me thought it was cool beyond reason... heck 14/17 year old me loved it still. As a 30 year old I've grown to dislike it, and Kingdom Hearts. I think their plots are terrible, and often times make little to no sense, usually based around basic ideas... and since the characters are all boring one note tropes there isn't much to hold it all together.

The only thing that kept FFVII fun in concept to me was the goofy stuff, like riding the dolphin and things like that.

This game looks hype AF, the set pieces look amazing, the boss fights look amazing, the gameplay (from what I played of the demo) is amazing... I'm very much looking forward to playing this thing. I am not looking forward to a "re-imagined" plot that somehow makes the original plot look glorious. It's gonna be hard to get through some of this... I already had problems with the demo's dialogue which grated on my 30 year old ears (most of it probably would have oozed cool to me when I was a teen)

All that said everything in the gameplay, visuals, and music (FFVII's music is some of my favorite FF music) looks astonishing. The watchers of fate stuff? I'm good. I'm not into this story, and I would have preferred the older story, because even though it was terrible, this sounds worse lol - WAY worse. Time travel rarely works for a lot of things... it's notoriously hard to get right... NOTORIOUSLY... and Nojima does NOT have a great track record of doing it properly (VIII anyone?)

I'm definitely playing this, but that story is getting a nah from me dawg... sounds like typical Nojima/Nomura conspiratorial mind fuckery (which NEVER works when they do it)

 

[AlexFlame116]

Tbh I can accept all these changes so far. So far.

The real crime for me is the lack of Cissnei.

I like Cissnei >:(

 

[TheBaldEmperor]

This solidified for me that I won't be playing it. Which is ok I have other stuff to occupy my time with. The discourse around this when it officially drops is gonna be bananas. Actually looking forward to it. This thread is just a taste of what's to come.

 

[Dreamboum]

I wasn't going to touch this thread.

My stance was that as long as:
Good characters don't become evil
Living characters don't die
Dead characters don't come back

... that I would be open minded about reinterpretations and trust that the major pillars of the story would remain in tact.

...welp. Just heard that about him (maybe?) being revealed as still alive. I'm actually really pissed. I hope it's wrong.

My best friend spent over 400 dollars on the ultimate edition, he loves the original and CC. Told me as long as Aerith and Zack aren't brought back that he's fine with any changes. Those are the only two things that would make him reject the new story and be upset with his purchase.

I don't have the heart to tell him...

Should I tell him? 😬

Click to shrink...

No one knows with certainty what happened in those scenes and what does it mean going forward. There's nothing to tell because we don't know.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I wasn't going to touch this thread.

My stance was that as long as:
Good characters don't become evil
Living characters don't die
Dead characters don't come back

... that I would be open minded about reinterpretations and trust that the major pillars of the story would remain in tact.

...welp. Just heard that about him (maybe?) being revealed as still alive. I'm actually really pissed. I hope it's wrong.

My best friend spent over 400 dollars on the ultimate edition, he loves the original and CC. Told me as long as Aerith and Zack aren't brought back that he's fine with any changes. Those are the only two things that would make him reject the new story and be upset with his purchase.

I don't have the heart to tell him...

Should I tell him? 😬

Click to shrink...

No let him play the game and see what actually happens

 

[Ozymandias]

I wasn't going to touch this thread.

My stance was that as long as:
Good characters don't become evil
Living characters don't die
Dead characters don't come back

... that I would be open minded about reinterpretations and trust that the major pillars of the story would remain in tact.

...welp. Just heard that about him (maybe?) being revealed as still alive. I'm actually really pissed. I hope it's wrong.

My best friend spent over 400 dollars on the ultimate edition, he loves the original and CC. Told me as long as Aerith and Zack aren't brought back that he's fine with any changes. Those are the only two things that would make him reject the new story and be upset with his purchase.

I don't have the heart to tell him...

Should I tell him? 😬

Click to shrink...

Tell him. $400 is a lot of money. He deserves to know that those are things that might happen in other parts and decide for himself if its worth even playing this. He can also watch some reviews, I'm sure they will mention it as a reason for a lower or higher score depending on perspective.

 

[Deleted member 679]

The lengths ppl will go to to defend this bullshit and then naming this game ff7 remake

Click to shrink...

I mean, I'm just sitting on my ass typing on a PC. Hardly much effort.

I'm sorry but I hate the idea that Nomura can do whatever he wants, especially the idea of remaking XV to be more like Versus XIII. It basically means that he can do whatever he wants with no repercussions just cause he made some crazy stories that blow people's minds. I don't like that he can always get what he wants at the end.

Now obviously some are joking here, but I really have never liked the Lord Nomura meme at all. Puts the man on a freaking pedestal.

Clearly I'm part of a very very few group of people who think this way since others think the opposite but that's fine.

Click to shrink...

What repercussions should he face for making the games he wants to make? If people don't like it, then they can stop buying it, and S-E will stop enabling him the moment he no longer makes them money.

For what it's worth, as far as storytelling goes, Nomura is a complete hack. He sucks.

But his games tend to be fantastic to play. It has nothing to do with crazy stories that blow minds, in my particular case, it has to do with delivering some of the best Action RPG gameplay and boss fights in the industry. It may not be his direct responsibility, and maybe more to the credit of the battle planners of each title, but then he gets credit for knowing how to build a team, since no other director delivers as much at Square-Enix. If it was that easy or widely available, FFXV's combat would be better.

I also love his character designs, but I'm kind of tired of them at this point, and hope FFXVI will have a completely different art style. Yoshida would be better, but it hasn't exactly been long since we've enjoyed his style in other games, and even Mari Okada's Sayoasa. So I'd rather get something entirely different.

The fact that there are people who worship his shit tier storytelling is far less weird to me than the fact that there are people who want him to be stopped from delivering amazing action rpgs just because they don't like his stories. Why not hope for better writers instead? Any game can have a good story if properly written, but not every good story will result in a great game without a competent team to design it.

 

[Deleted member 29639]

Uh, yes they were. In almost literally every single trailer they had model swaps where Snake would be in Raiden's place or they would barely show Raiden at all. They had a handcrafted marketing campaign to make you think you'd play as Snake throughout the entire game and that we were getting an incredibly straightforward sequel.




Literally no one went into this game thinking that Raiden would be the main character. Arguably it's the most blatant intentional attempt to mislead in gaming history, with MGSV being a close second because it emulates the twist and metacommentary.

Click to shrink...

I've been racking my brain over this - did we even know Raiden existed before MGS2 hit shelves? Granted, I was a youngin' at the time, but I read a bunch of gaming magazines and followed that game for years, and I was stunned when Raiden arrived at Big Shell.

 

[Ploid 6.0]

Seeing the big boss battles actually have me wanting to jump back into Dragon Age Inquisition again (I have 1,173 hours played on that with Multiplayer, and the many different party builds and compositions). Ah heck, I have time, here I go again, too bad fighting some of the dragons are better done solo because of the crappy mechanics and the ARPG combat making a lot of the skills not too usable for the AI.

The boss battles also remind me a bit of FFXIV, especial the dreaded primal fights in that game. I hated those though (duty finder).

 

[Gold Arsene]

to MGS2, that's more of an isolated aspect of the game. I doubt the notion that most fans wouldn't have MGS2 if they knew Raiden was the main character.

Click to shrink...

You don't remember the reaction to Raiden then.

Fans would never stop bitching about Raider to the point MGS3 made a character that looked just like him to be a butt monkey.

Raiden was probably one of the biggest gaming jokes in the early 2000's and pretty wildly hated till MGS4 and Rising.(which frustrates me because I always liked him.)

 

[Crossing Eden]

I've been racking my brain over this - did we even know Raiden existed before MGS2 hit shelves? Granted, I was a youngin' at the time, but I read a bunch of gaming magazines and followed that game for years, and I was stunned when Raiden arrived at Big Shell.

Click to shrink...

People were flabbergasted.

 

[Yuber]

No. They knew what a segment of fans wanted. Not all fans.

Click to shrink...

So big time ff7 fans wanted alternative timeline? Please.

fans wanted a updated game since the ps3 tech demo. Most wanted update graphics and gameplay, not kh story.

 

[Chumunga64]

Can I trade Tifa, Aerith, or whoever to date Biggs

Gideon Emery sounds so sexy

 

[Deleted member 23212]

People who were surprised at Raiden obviously didn't read the manual, because he's listed as one of the two main characters right in it.

 

[Demon Lizardman]

I mean, I'm just sitting on my ass typing on a PC. Hardly much effort.


What repercussions should he face for making the games he wants to make? If people don't like it, then they can stop buying it, and S-E will stop enabling him the moment he no longer makes them money.

For what it's worth, as far as storytelling goes, Nomura is a complete hack. He sucks.

But his games tend to be fantastic to play. It has nothing to do with crazy stories that blow minds, in my particular case, it has to do with delivering some of the best Action RPG gameplay and boss fights in the industry. It may not be his direct responsibility, and maybe more to the credit of the battle planners of each title, but then he gets credit for knowing how to build a team, since no other director delivers as much at Square-Enix. If it was that easy or widely available, FFXV's combat would be better.

I also love his character designs, but I'm kind of tired of them at this point, and hope FFXVI will have a completely different art style. Yoshida would be better, but it hasn't exactly been long since we've enjoyed his style in other games, and even Mari Okada's Sayoasa. So I'd rather get something entirely different.

The fact that there are people who worship his shit tier storytelling is far less weird to me than the fact that there are people who want him to be stopped from delivering amazing action rpgs just because they don't like his stories. Why not hope for better writers instead? Any game can have a good story if properly written, but not every good story will result in a great game without a competent team to design it.

Click to shrink...

Kingsglaive had good designs when it came to characters, shame the film was trash

 

[Vault]

The MGS2 twist lost its edge in Europe having to wait 4 extra months for the game to come out.

 

[Wazzy]

So big time ff7 fans wanted alternative timeline? Please.

fans wanted a updated game since the ps3 tech demo. Most wanted update graphics and gameplay, not kh story.

Click to shrink...

There are many people who wanted Aerith to live. Go look back at previous threads. Go look at the demand to let Aerith live over the internet.

People need to understand that even with this twist the game still follows the original almost 1:1 so people expecting this be a completely different experience are showing their asses and haven't played or seen anything.

The alternate timeline opens up many possibilities for the Remake and guess what? for all we know the games still play out the same and they fail to defy fate. Maybe they extend the life of characters only a little longer but eventually everything still happens. WE DONT KNOW.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Kingsglaive had good designs when it came to characters, shame the film was trash

Click to shrink...

IIRC Nomura didn't design the cast of Kingsglaive.

 

[Ploid 6.0]

You don't remember the reaction to Raiden then.

Fans would never stop bitching about Raider to the point MGS3 made a character that looked just like him to be a butt monkey.

Raiden was probably one of the biggest gaming jokes in the early 2000's and pretty wildly hated till MGS4 and Rising.(which frustrates me because I always liked him.)

Click to shrink...

I remember it haha. After waiting so long for more Solid Snake, playing the demo 5 times as long as Zone of the Enders and finally getting the full game finishing the boat mission rubbing my hands together for the rest of the game and bam, this new character is revealed, and it looks like you're controlling him for a bit, (1 hour later) for a while, (3 hours later) ok, what's going on her... (many more hours later) ....

I didn't like it but I accepted it, I still would have rather played as Solid Snake. I didn't make a big fuss about it though. I think there's a version where you actually do get to play as Snake, MGS2 Substance or something. I never got that.

 

[Deleted member 679]

Kingsglaive had good designs when it came to characters, shame the film was trash

Click to shrink...

It did! Crowe was such an excellent design!

I'd be totally fine with that for a mainline game.

 

[Deleted member 23212]

I remember it haha. After waiting so long for more Solid Snake, playing the demo 5 times as long as Zone of the Enders and finally getting the full game finishing the boat mission rubbing my hands together for the rest of the game and bam, this new character is revealed, and it looks like you're controlling him for a bit, (1 hour later) for a while, (3 hours later) ok, what's going on her... (many more hours later) ....

I didn't like it but I accepted it, I still would have rather played as Solid Snake. I didn't make a big fuss about it though. I think there's a version where you actually do get to play as Snake, MGS2 Substance or something. I never got that.

Click to shrink...

That version just had bonus Snake missions, which weren't at the same budget/scope as the main game. I don't think there is any voice acting/cutscenes in that mode.

 

[Demon Lizardman]

It did! Crowe was such an excellent design!

I'd be totally fine with that for a mainline game.

Click to shrink...

I even liked Luna's design compared to the game. What they did to Crowe was bullshit. We really needed a female party member in XV, was mostly a sausage party.

 

[Serenity Lotus]

There are many people who wanted Aerith to live. Go look back at previous threads. Go look at the demand to let Aerith live over the internet.

People need to understand that even with this twist the game still follows the original almost 1:1 so people expecting this be a completely different experience are showing their asses and haven't played or seen anything.

The alternate timeline opens up many possibilities for the Remake and guess what? for all we know the games still play out the same and they fail to defy fate. Maybe they extend the life of characters only a little longer but eventually everything still happens. WE DONT KNOW.

Click to shrink...

Couldn't have said it better. :)

 

[Deleted member 2834]

I remember the MGS2 reactions lol. Forums/social media wasn't quite the same back then, but people weren't happy either.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Kingsglaive had good designs when it came to characters, shame the film was trash

Click to shrink...

I wish FFXV used the Kingsglaive artsyle

 

[Deleted member 13155]

What this game does extremely well, is world building. Ofcourse, the entire game is focused around Midgar but if you've dreamt of actually being in that place beyond what the original game gave you, then this is a dream come true. The city is huge, and while you're kept on a leash quite a bit you're seeing and living a shitload of it. You also really feel the iron grip Shinra has on it, you can see the propaganda, the raids, their presence is felt in every corner. The slums feel most liberated, but are very poor and void of actual sunlight besides some gaps in the plate.

Avalanche too, they've been completely fleshed out and you'll spend hours with them. You also learn about their backstories and the missions are actual missions beyond just blowing up a reactor and failing to do the second as per the original game.

At this rate I wonder how many FF games we're going to get. I have the feeling Square will simply not announce FFXVI but keep milking VII for the remainder of the decade. Or perhaps both. But I could see a part 2 being the eastern continent as the main map with Junon as its big city and climax. Probably completely fleshed out as well, after all, I think Kalm to Junon was about 5 hours of gameplay in the original as well IIRC. They can flesh that part out just as much.

 

[Serenity Lotus]

I remember the MGS2 reactions lol. Forums/social media wasn't quite the same back then, but people weren't happy either.

Click to shrink...

I will admit I wasn't happy about it at all, but as the story came to an end. I was fully on board with exactly what Kojima was going for. I thought it was quite brilliant when it wrapped up.

 

[Demon Lizardman]

I wish FFXV used the Kingsglaive artsyle

Click to shrink...

Perfection, better than that weird amalgamation they had in the game of anime and realism.

 

[DieH@rd]

Where can I get more Elemental Materia?

I have only one after coming to Sector 5 slums and I want more. Any vendors selling it yet? Can I Steal it from some monster? Are some hidden in the gameworld?

 

[Demon Lizardman]

I would love to see Warren Ellis's take on FF7, yessiree that would be insanity I would like to think about.

 

[Metto]

Something tells me the later games are gonna allow players to choose how faithful they want the latter FF7 parts can be. Like you can choose to have a more straightlaced remake or a crazier campaign where you can keep Aerith have Sephiroth as a party member and Zack ends up being a final boss or something. I don't see them completely committing to one or the other even if I expect the later parts to still be along the lines of the original game.

 

[SubvertedTrope]

Something tells me the later games are gonna allow players to choose how faithful they want the latter FF7 parts can be. Like you can choose to have a more straightlaced remake or a crazier campaign where you can keep Aerith have Sephiroth as a party member and Zack ends up being a final boss or something. I don't see them completely committing to one or the other even if I expect the later parts to still be along the lines of the original game.

Click to shrink...

There is exactly 0 chance of this happening, it's too much work. Like waaay too much for 2020 SE. We're lucky to have an attempt at 3D towns lol.

 

[IzzyRX]

I really hope we can date everyone on the Gold Saucer event.
I'm sure even Red XIII will have his niche.

 

[Foffy]

Oh man I just realized my post is the threadmark for the twist.

Please don't hate me, internet people who come here!!

 

[Deleted member 679]

I really hope we can date everyone on the Gold Saucer event.
I'm sure even Red XIII will have his niche.

Click to shrink...

Can we date the Past Cloud that will travel to the future with Zack?

 

[Narroo]

I mean, I'm just sitting on my ass typing on a PC. Hardly much effort.


What repercussions should he face for making the games he wants to make? If people don't like it, then they can stop buying it, and S-E will stop enabling him the moment he no longer makes them money.

For what it's worth, as far as storytelling goes, Nomura is a complete hack. He sucks.

But his games tend to be fantastic to play. It has nothing to do with crazy stories that blow minds, in my particular case, it has to do with delivering some of the best Action RPG gameplay and boss fights in the industry. It may not be his direct responsibility, and maybe more to the credit of the battle planners of each title, but then he gets credit for knowing how to build a team, since no other director delivers as much at Square-Enix. If it was that easy or widely available, FFXV's combat would be better.

I also love his character designs, but I'm kind of tired of them at this point, and hope FFXVI will have a completely different art style. Yoshida would be better, but it hasn't exactly been long since we've enjoyed his style in other games, and even Mari Okada's Sayoasa. So I'd rather get something entirely different.

The fact that there are people who worship his shit tier storytelling is far less weird to me than the fact that there are people who want him to be stopped from delivering amazing action rpgs just because they don't like his stories. Why not hope for better writers instead? Any game can have a good story if properly written, but not every good story will result in a great game without a competent team to design it.

Click to shrink...

Here's the thing; not everyone likes his ARPG's. To this day it confounds me that anyone thinks KH has good combat (except, perhaps KH1?). If you think his action games are bad, then what's left?

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I mean, I'm just sitting on my ass typing on a PC. Hardly much effort.


What repercussions should he face for making the games he wants to make? If people don't like it, then they can stop buying it, and S-E will stop enabling him the moment he no longer makes them money.

For what it's worth, as far as storytelling goes, Nomura is a complete hack. He sucks.

But his games tend to be fantastic to play. It has nothing to do with crazy stories that blow minds, in my particular case, it has to do with delivering some of the best Action RPG gameplay and boss fights in the industry. It may not be his direct responsibility, and maybe more to the credit of the battle planners of each title, but then he gets credit for knowing how to build a team, since no other director delivers as much at Square-Enix. If it was that easy or widely available, FFXV's combat would be better.

I also love his character designs, but I'm kind of tired of them at this point, and hope FFXVI will have a completely different art style. Yoshida would be better, but it hasn't exactly been long since we've enjoyed his style in other games, and even Mari Okada's Sayoasa. So I'd rather get something entirely different.

The fact that there are people who worship his shit tier storytelling is far less weird to me than the fact that there are people who want him to be stopped from delivering amazing action rpgs just because they don't like his stories. Why not hope for better writers instead? Any game can have a good story if properly written, but not every good story will result in a great game without a competent team to design it.

Click to shrink...

I think the problem is that he can't actually help himself when he's in charge of a project. His stupid, idiotic storytelling ideas always infest everything he's involved in. Dissidia, KH, and now this...it's all the same shit.

 

[Deleted member 679]

Here's the thing; not everyone likes his ARPG's. To this day it confounds me that anyone thinks KH has good combat (except, perhaps KH1?). If you think his action games are bad, then what's left?

Click to shrink...

Sure. Then you don't play them? Stop rewarding games you don't enjoy with your money.

I get wanting to see what the fuss is about, but at some point it's better if you stop putting yourself through it.

I can relate because for a long time I kept playing every single GTA game, even though I never really enjoyed any of them. Vice City was the closest I came to genuinely liking one. I have absolutely zero interest in GTA VI, and even RDR2 I didn't play yet and don't really feel like it, even though RDR1 was the one Rockstar game I think is legitimately great.

I'm just not that much of a fan of their gameplay or even their brand of writing for GTA, so why did I buy and play them? Because they felt "canonical", like games you needed to play for yourself. Not worth it, fuck them.

I think the problem is that he can't actually help himself when he's in charge of a project. His stupid, idiotic storytelling ideas always infest everything he's involved in. Dissidia, KH, and now this...it's all the same shit.

Click to shrink...

It's very possible, even likely. But Nojima doesn't have the greatest recent track record. It's worth at least a try to give him a better writer.

EDIT: And Square-Enix in general could use better writers, even if they end up not working with Nomura anymore. Everyone praises those two XIV writers, but two people isn't enough for the amount of games they put out.

I guess there's Yoko Taro, but he's almost separate from the rest of the company.

 

[IzzyRX]

Can we date the Past Cloud that will travel to the future with Zack?

Click to shrink...

This would be an awkward one.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

It's very possible, even likely. But Nojima doesn't have the greatest recent track record. It's worth at least a try to give him a better writer.

EDIT: And Square-Enix in general could use better writers, even if they end up not working with Nomura anymore. Everyone praises those two XIV writers, but two people isn't enough for the amount of games they put out.

I guess there's Yoko Taro, but he's almost separate from the rest of the company.

Click to shrink...

They definitely need new writers, and they can't lean on that creep Yoko Taro forever. The sad part is that JRPG writing has kind of fallen off a cliff in general over the past ten to fifteen years, so I'm not sure there's anyone left who COULD tell a story without infesting it with dumb shit, be it gross sexualization or over-the-top time travel convolution.

 

[Demon Lizardman]

DQ11 had some of the most consistant writing even if it isn't "good" as other AAA games. It didn't piss me off but it felt wholesome and organic compared to anything SE has made. Also props for making the little girl character one of the best characters and not annoying like any other JRPG.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

DQ11 had some of the most consistant writing even if it isn't "good" as other AAA games. It didn't piss me off but it felt wholesome and organic compared to anything SE has made. Also props for making the little girl character one of the best characters and not annoying like any other JRPG.

Click to shrink...

They still had an adult woman get trapped in a little girl's body and then never bothered to fix it.

 

[808s & Villainy]

They definitely need new writers, and they can't lean on that creep Yoko Taro forever. The sad part is that JRPG writing has kind of fallen off a cliff in general over the past ten to fifteen years, so I'm not sure there's anyone left who COULD tell a story without infesting it with dumb shit, be it gross sexualization or over-the-top time travel convolution.

Click to shrink...

There aren't really any Matsunos left given big budget properties to work on

 

[PshycoNinja]

They definitely need new writers, and they can't lean on that creep Yoko Taro forever. The sad part is that JRPG writing has kind of fallen off a cliff in general over the past ten to fifteen years, so I'm not sure there's anyone left who COULD tell a story without infesting it with dumb shit, be it gross sexualization or over-the-top time travel convolution.

Click to shrink...

Even XIV is delving into Alternate timelines and worlds. It's kind of funny.

 

[Demon Lizardman]

They still had an adult woman get trapped in a little girl's body and then never bothered to fix it.

Click to shrink...

That's really my only gripe with it, they never sexualize her though, so at least it's not the worst thing that SE could do?

 

[Deleted member 58141]

Any tips for the Bahamut fight? Not sure how I'm supposed to handle its megaflare >.>.

Edit: nvm got him.

 

[Deleted member 51691]

That's really my only gripe with it, they never sexualize her though, so at least it's not the worst thing that SE could do?

Click to shrink...

Even if it's not sexualized it's still a boring trope

 

[Demon Lizardman]

Even if it's not sexualized it's still a boring trope

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I agree but that game is still fantastic, but then again maybe I am judging on a curve. Also, I just witnessed that Hojo scene and jesus fucking christ, this game is going to make some people question their fan loyalty to Square Enix. Granted, there are people who will defend it.

 

[PshycoNinja]

No let him play the game and see what actually happens

Click to shrink...

If Aerith and Zack living is a deal breaker for him, and seeing how this game is taking massive changes to the core story, that seems like something you should allude to them so they aren't even more upset. $400 is A LOT of money, especially for a game that has the things in the story that are a deal breaker for this guys friend.

No reason for his friend to lose a bunch of money when its avoidable.

 

[AlexFlame116]

EDIT: DOUBLE POST SORRY!