Final Fantasy XV's director, Hajime Tabata, on the open world and Niflheim

pleaseinsertdisctwo · Jan 22, 2018

https://www.sbs.com.au/popasia/blog/2018/01/11/final-fantasy-xv-director-hajime-tabata-future-series

"Initially, I wanted to make everything open world," Tabata tells SBS PopAsia. "However with this being our first attempt at creating an open world, we realised that would be impossible when taking into account the amount of time required in developing the technology and contents for that."

"In game development, it's always essential to clarify what we're going to, or not going to, implement from both a technology and work-based perspective. So the moment I decided that we were going to make Final Fantasy XV an open world, I had to make the decision to remove Nifelheim from that open world."

Personally, I will say this again and again: making XV Open World was a giant mistake. Even people who like/love the game... I think most who like/love it, like/love it in spite of the Open World, not because of it.

Thoughts?

Blade24070 · Jan 22, 2018

Games like Assassin's Creed Origins just go to show how devoid of life and soul FFXV's world really is. Egypt has big cities, villages, and lots of landmarks. FFXV's world has landmarks, a bunch of copy pasted gas stations, one small town, and one semi-big town (Altissia is hardly that big) completely separated from the rest of the world.

Yasamuu · Jan 22, 2018

I'm indifferent to the fact it's open world.

I think they created a vibrant world and environment which, when I played just after release, was pretty vapid. It didn't feel particularly full of life, besides the enemies, and I think the timing of the games release probably didn't help as other games had done open worlds to a better standard a year or two prior - never mind what's arrived since then. I don't think that's necessarily down to the decision to go open world, more the execution of it.

KZXcellent · Jan 22, 2018

It was a big missed opportunity to not make Niflheim or Tenebrae explorable.

Koozek · Jan 22, 2018

Doing an open-world right on your first try is understandably hard to do, but I guess it was worth a try just for the experience the team gained by challenging themselves. Companies like Rockstar and Ubisoft have thousands of people working on their huge open-world games for over a decade now, having gained tons of expertise on tech, design, and management of projects of this scale.

Hopefully Tabata's team will be able to make something more solid and well-realized for their next game and learn from their mistakes and the feedback on FFXV.

What about a Final Fantasy X-2 like road trip starring Aranea, Lunafreya, Cidney and Iris?

"As to an all-female road trip," he says, "if we have a chance to roll out some spin-offs, I'll definitely consider it. Plus, I'd like to know if a lot of fans would have fun with it!"

FFXV-2 confirmed.

Chaserjoey · Jan 22, 2018

Holy shit, SBS interviewed Tabata!? That's awesome! Good on SBS.

Seems like a good read, judging from the Niflheim and spin off quotes above. Thanks for sharing!

Edit: Oh that was really all there was to it. Oh well, glad that he reconfirms that he has pretty much moved on from FFXV to his new game. Hope those drive-by posts beginning for him to move on stop or at least slow down.

Heart_Attack · Jan 22, 2018

Blade24070 said:
FFXV's world has landmarks, a bunch of copy pasted gas stations, one small town, and one semi-big town (Altissia is hardly that big) completely separated from the rest of the world.

This pretty much. It makes me think that the people who love this shitty "open world" never played an open world game before.

GinoFelino · Jan 22, 2018

Heart_Attack said:
This pretty much. It makes me think that the people who love this shitty "open world" never played an open world game before.

Maybe try not to be so dismissive and arrogant about other people's enjoyment of a game

Blackleg-sanji1 · Jan 22, 2018

Heart_Attack said:
This pretty much. It makes me think that the people who love this shitty "open world" never played an open world game before.

Or there are ppl out there that just simply like it and you don't?

Brodo Baggins · Jan 22, 2018

Heart_Attack said:
This pretty much. It makes me think that the people who love this shitty "open world" never played an open world game before.

I've played plenty of open world games, and still enjoyed FFXVs open world segment more than many other open worlds. I liked it mostly because it didn't overwhelm you with copy pasted objectives everywhere (besides the stupid frog/dog tags sidequests), and I enjoyed the optional dungeons hidden around the map, and the overall design of the world even if it was more of a guided tour than a game sandbox.

The gas stations instead of real towns were pretty annoying, but the first open world half of the game is definitely superior to the unfinished mess that is everything after chapter 9.

Blackleg-sanji1 · Jan 22, 2018

Jackie Chan said:
I've played plenty of open world games, and still enjoyed FFXVs open world segment more than many other open worlds. I liked it mostly because it didn't overwhelm you with copy pasted objectives everywhere (besides the stupid frog/dog tags sidequests), and I enjoyed the optional dungeons hidden around the map, and the overall design of the world even if it was more of a guided tour than a game sandbox.

The gas stations instead of real towns were pretty annoying, but the first open world half of the game is definitely superior to the unfinished mess that is everything after chapter 9.

Man imagine if they managed to make everything after 9 open world as well. Sooo much better

Watershed · Jan 22, 2018

Honestly, the open world was more of a negative than a positive for the game. I get the idea of this big journey you go on with your friends, but with my short time with the game (10 hours-ish) the world felt more like an impediment than anything.

Deleted member 4869 · Jan 22, 2018

I loved that it was open world. Eos is such a beautiful place.

Too bad that Tabata had a very strict timeline to fix Nomura's blunders. He could've done a lot more if Square hadn't given him so little time.

I'm eager to see what his next project is about! Please let it be Agni's Philosophy!

UltraMav · Jan 22, 2018

The world has the same empty feeling I got from MGSV, but, for some reason I still enjoyed it. I think mostly because it was just so beautiful that I liked driving through it.

Yerffej · Jan 22, 2018

I'm a big fan of open worlds and this one did so little for me. The signs were there through a lot of it that they had to rush to get things done. Their next attempt should be something to watch out for, though.

Deleted member 679 · Jan 22, 2018

theofficefan99 said:
Personally, I will say this again and again: making XV Open World was a giant mistake. Even people who like/love the game... I think most who like/love it, like/love it in spite of the Open World, not because of it.

Thoughts?

Not really. I wouldn't have anything against it being linear personally, but the most common opinion is that everything before Chapter 9 is the best part of the game. That was by far what the majority of people disappointed with the whole package were saying when it came out.

Heart_Attack said:
This pretty much. It makes me think that the people who love this shitty "open world" never played an open world game before.

On the contrary, I've played far too many, and Final Fantasy XV felt fresh with the way it integrated its strongest theme with the open world, as well as rewards for exploration in the form of handcrafted content. Most of the optional dungeons are of very high quality, so my discoveries felt meaningful.

Blackleg-sanji1 · Jan 22, 2018

Yerffej said:
I'm a big fan of open worlds and this one did so little for me. The signs were there through a lot of it that they had to rush to get things done. Their next attempt should be something to watch out for, though.

That's what I'm most excited for they stumbled pretty bad because of time,cut content and their own personal blunders(looking at you one hints at a time at launch) but I'd like to see what the next game looks like without the baggage

Neoleo2143 · Jan 22, 2018

Making the choice to sacrifice a plot-significant location in service of the open world is definitely something divisive indeed. For me, that sorta seems to defeat the point if you aren't going to represent locations appropriately.

Chaserjoey · Jan 22, 2018

Jackie Chan said:
I've played plenty of open world games, and still enjoyed FFXVs open world segment more than many other open worlds. I liked it mostly because it didn't overwhelm you with copy pasted objectives everywhere (besides the stupid frog/dog tags sidequests), and I enjoyed the optional dungeons hidden around the map, and the overall design of the world even if it was more of a guided tour than a game sandbox.

Same here. I've played many open world games but FFXV was unique. It was refreshing to have a game with an open world that didn't treat the world as something to be conquered, that there are areas where you must complete all these side quests before it is yours.

It was relaxing to be able to drive, or walk, at my own leisure and just go off the beaten track. I found a dungeon without meaning to, and I climbed The Rock of Ravatogh without any prompts. I did it just because I wanted to explore. That level of freedom when exploring was just beautiful.

Falchion · Jan 22, 2018

This must makes me appreciate the work Guerilla did on their first open world even more.

Lunaray · Jan 22, 2018

The real problem isn't the open world but that they made the wrong parts of the world open and explorable.

If there're places that should be explorable and open in FFXV, it should have been the places where a lot of the story actually happened, not the empty expanse of grasslands where there's nothing. Every city should have been explorable and much larger. That means Insomnia, Nifelheim, and Tenebrae. Altissia and Lestallum should both have been much larger cities too. They should have focused on the vibrant parts of FFXV, kept all the dungeons (which I enjoyed), and reduced the size of the explorable world. The fact that you could have hunts and other activities in Altissia demonstrated that you can have normal gameplay activities in cities too.

It seems like a lot of open world games miss the mark on this and focus on the wrong things. I remember in Dragon Age: Inquisition, Val Royeaux was tiny and almost an after thought, while there were numerous MMO-esque maps where nothing of narrative consequence happened. It always feels like the development focus was placed on the wrong things. FFXV suffers from the same thing.

Gallows Bat · Jan 22, 2018

The game would have been better if they'd used the time making an open world full of fetch quests on actually completing the story instead. I really enjoyed it and platinumed the game but there's no denying the game had huge flaws and the open world wasn't very good.

Waltz · Jan 22, 2018

It's a decent final fantasy game. The open world approach is a nice addition to the series, however, the "when we decided to go open world we had to take Nifelheim" story is BS for me.
CD Projekt had their first experience with open world in Witcher 3 and created a much more lively environment.

To me, this is just an excuse to cover up all the back and forth with the engine, plot, and changes they decided to do mid production that trashed almost half of the 10 years of production. So when they finally put things on track they were already late and had to cut in scope. Not by lack of experience but because of a bad production process.

zebetite · Jan 22, 2018

Its weird. In the traditional "open world" sense, FFXV probably has the worst I've ever seen. But, I weirdly appreciated it as scenery to drive past. When I wasn't ping-ponging all over the map for whatever dumb bullshit they were making me do, and was actually setting a distant destination and driving a long distance and indulging that road trip fantasy they tried but so often failed to invoke-- the handful of times that it worked, it worked really well.

That they almost immediately set to work on a car that could go off-roading to patch into the game made it clear to me that they had a different concept of what a road trip is than I do.

Exentryk · Jan 22, 2018

Blade24070 said:
Games like Assassin's Creed Origins just go to show how devoid of life and soul FFXV's world really is. Egypt has big cities, villages, and lots of landmarks. FFXV's world has landmarks, a bunch of copy pasted gas stations, one small town, and one semi-big town (Altissia is hardly that big) completely separated from the rest of the world.

I genuinely laughed at the incompetence of FFXV's team when I was boat riding in ACO's Alexandria and compared that to Altissia's cutscene boat riding.

ACO boat riding:

FFXV boat riding:

gordofredito · Jan 22, 2018

Tabata seems like a very good Project Manager, but he definitely lacks the talent and creativity to direct a FF game. He was called in to "get shit done" and he did, he definitely finished the game. It was far from what I, and a lot of fans wanted but hey, be careful what you wish for. I doubt they lacked the funds to make a good open world game, they just lacked creativity and time. So yes, that's what you get for announcing it too early Squeenix

Fou-Lu · Jan 22, 2018

"Open" zones like Final Fantasy XII or Xenoblade really should have been what they aimed for.

Noctis · Jan 22, 2018

GG did black magic on their first attempt at an open world.. SE on the other hand well it wasn't good, feels like FFXV was just a test bed for Tabata and his division ;/

Lukar · Jan 22, 2018

Heart_Attack said:
This pretty much. It makes me think that the people who love this shitty "open world" never played an open world game before.

That's a pretty big generalization. I've played plenty of open world games and still loved exploring Eos, even with its many flaws.

nelsonroyale · Jan 22, 2018

Yeah...the game felt unfinished to me...Kind of like the new Xenogears, without a tenth of the ambition.

KZXcellent · Jan 22, 2018

Fou-Lu said:
"Open" zones like Final Fantasy XII or Xenoblade really should have been what they aimed for.

I agree. Large Xenoblade-like zones seem to be perfect for JRPGs. Also a focus on varied enviornments.

jackdoe · Jan 22, 2018

KZXcellent said:
I agree. Large Xenoblade-like zones seem to be perfect for JRPGs. Also a focus on varied enviornments.

Absolutely. Sacrificing variety for an "open world" results in a world that feels smaller than games that have a variety of smaller worlds, like Xenoblade. Playing Xenoblade 2 and Final Fantasy XII Zodiac Age recently just cemented that fact in my head: everything about Final Fantasy XV felt small. The world felt small, the story felt small, the cast felt small.

Koozek · Jan 22, 2018

Gbraga said:
Not really. I wouldn't have anything against it being linear personally, but the most common opinion is that everything before Chapter 9 is the best part of the game. That was by far what the majority of people disappointed with the whole package were saying when it came out.

On the contrary, I've played far too many, and Final Fantasy XV felt fresh with the way it integrated its strongest theme with the open world, as well as rewards for exploration in the form of handcrafted content. Most of the optional dungeons are of very high quality, so my discoveries felt meaningful.

Chaserjoey said:
Same here. I've played many open world games but FFXV was unique. It was refreshing to have a game with an open world that didn't treat the world as something to be conquered, that there are areas where you must complete all these side quests before it is yours.

It was relaxing to be able to drive, or walk, at my own leisure and just go off the beaten track. I found a dungeon without meaning to, and I climbed The Rock of Ravatogh without any prompts. I did it just because I wanted to explore. That level of freedom when exploring was just beautiful.

Yeah, at this point I played many open-world games too and even AC: Origins, which btw has the most mind-blowingly beautiful, huge, and detailed world I've seen in a game, and TW3, which is one of my all-time fave RPGs now, didn't give me the same sense of discovery as when I was exploring the world and found all the dungeons on my own in FFXV - that honestly gave me more Zelda vibes than most Zeldas of the last decade even did :D Felt so cool when there was no icon on the map indicating where a dungeon might be and you just randomly stumple upon them while exploring (I later realized there would've been hunt missions that led me to the dungeons actually, but I covered up the whole map before I was even in chapter 3 or so, lol).

SugarNoodles · Jan 22, 2018

More evidence that SE games are developed exclusively by people who dont know how to direct a game.

Like if your initial stab at the game is "whoops I didnt realize that my concept doesnt work for a huge part of the game" then you probably should still be an apprentice.

Wamb0wneD · Jan 22, 2018

SugarNoodles said:
More evidence that SE games are developed exclusively by people who dont know how to direct a game.

Like if your initial stab at the game is "whoops I didnt realize that my concept doesnt work for a huge part of the game" then you probably should still be an apprentice.

Ito knows how to. They don't let him though.

Raven117 · Jan 22, 2018

theofficefan99 said:
https://www.sbs.com.au/popasia/blog/2018/01/11/final-fantasy-xv-director-hajime-tabata-future-series

"Initially, I wanted to make everything open world," Tabata tells SBS PopAsia. "However with this being our first attempt at creating an open world, we realised that would be impossible when taking into account the amount of time required in developing the technology and contents for that."

"In game development, it's always essential to clarify what we're going to, or not going to, implement from both a technology and work-based perspective. So the moment I decided that we were going to make Final Fantasy XV an open world, I had to make the decision to remove Nifelheim from that open world."

Personally, I will say this again and again: making XV Open World was a giant mistake. Even people who like/love the game... I think most who like/love it, like/love it in spite of the Open World, not because of it.

Thoughts?

You mean, you started designing a game back in the early part of this decade that was open world and would have been great if it came out when it was supposed to, but because the industry moved on while the game was stuck in development hell, your open world just couldn't keep up.

Did I get it right?

Honestly, I only liked the game when it became more linear. It was meandering nonsense until then.

Jangowuzhere · Jan 22, 2018

Making XV an open world game was not a mistake. How they went about it and executed on it is a different story.

They should have immediately went back to the drawing board when most of the game's side content involved boring fetch quests with no character or story payoff.

GongagaSOLDIER · Jan 22, 2018

I actually enjoyed the open-world initially but it does begin to grate after a few hours staring at the car. But at the same time it allowed for some character and world development through conversations and documents discovered only through exploration. The problem is that Niflheim, Tenabrae and Insomnia all had infinitely more potential for an interesting world with quirky level design than what was provided in the Final product. The fact that the most unique and artistically poignant locations are reduced to on rails segments is criminal.

Deleted member 1003 · Jan 22, 2018

The important thing to do in any project is determine what you want to do then figure out how to get there. FFXV definitely felt like a game that didn't know what it wanted to be and became a mash of different ideas with the goal of just getting the game out to the public.

Curufinwe · Jan 22, 2018

jackdoe said:
Absolutely. Sacrificing variety for an "open world" results in a world that feels smaller than games that have a variety of smaller worlds, like Xenoblade. Playing Xenoblade 2 and Final Fantasy XII Zodiac Age recently just cemented that fact in my head: everything about Final Fantasy XV felt small. The world felt small, the story felt small, the cast felt small.

Playing 12 again after 15 made me think the exact opposite.

Jangowuzhere · Jan 22, 2018

They're attempts to shove the old versus XIII ideas and concepts in toXV was also a big problem.

The car would have only been cool if it was modeled after a road trip concept. Meaning that the car should have only followed one road with occasional branches/side paths. Driving BACK to locations with the car should have been a big no no.

Tyaren · Jan 22, 2018

Well, the open world part (Lucis) was the good part of the game. It was after Altissia that FFXV turned into FFXIII and everything fell apart, at least for me. After the credits rolled I was glad that I was able to go back to the open world part to wrap things up.

Gaia Lanzer · Jan 22, 2018

I don't know, man. I still say, with the size of Leide, Duscae and Cleigne together, you could've downsized all that by 2/3 and re-purpose all that space elsewhere. As it stands, those three regions are made up of a MAJORITY of empty space. They never NEEDED to be THAT BIG, just "big enough".

The problem I see is some developers, when making open world games, focus on realism over gameplay practicality. They are worried that the distance has to look believable, even if that means a lot of empty space between locations. My preferences is, give me a world that is not limited to a hallway, but large enough to allow exploration and not overly big that it feels like you are wandering around in a big, empty landmass. If that means it doesn't REALISTICALLY look like there are miles between locations, so be it. I'd sacrifice that sorta realism if it means that "space" can be used elsewhere and running across an area isn't a chore.

Rikucrafter · Jan 22, 2018

Always nice to see PopAsia outside of my usual context... love the place so much <3

Shame. Would have loved to see more of Niflheim. The game, for all its amazingness, didn't need to be open world.

Mcjmetroid · Jan 22, 2018

It managed to make every single thing weird and convoluted. It's the little things:

You can't drive the car yourself for about 3 chapters I believe.
You can't adjust the radio volume - if I'm not driving can I at least listen to the music and not having a guy hassle me for a photo every 10 minutes.
You can't seem to take photos yourself( I never worked this out)
The fast travel system was weird.
Being tied to the road was weird and even with the patches the off road sections don't play well
The locations were mostly petrol stations with a diner.. you know everyone's favourite part of a journey.

One thing I like about breath of the Wild is it sets rules at the beginning of the game and it sticks to it. Final fantasy is one of those games where you can warp to the tallest tower in battle but while you're exploring can't even jump over a small fence.

HockeyBird · Jan 22, 2018

It's a shame Niflheim wasn't really explorable. A desert covered in snow had a lost of potential.

Keym · Jan 22, 2018

I'll scream if XVI is another open world game. It bothered me so much that all the environments looked the same across the whole map. :(

pleaseinsertdisctwo · Jan 22, 2018

jackdoe said:
Absolutely. Sacrificing variety for an "open world" results in a world that feels smaller than games that have a variety of smaller worlds, like Xenoblade. Playing Xenoblade 2 and Final Fantasy XII Zodiac Age recently just cemented that fact in my head: everything about Final Fantasy XV felt small. The world felt small, the story felt small, the cast felt small.

Absolutely, I agree with this. FFXV felt super, super small.

Thatguy · Jan 22, 2018

I liked the open world, but it had a dry, shallow feel to it. It needed to be lush and colorful and much more verticality. If you do open world the world has to be really good. I say keep going with open FF but work hard to make it interesting and fun.

jett · Jan 22, 2018

Doing anything open world is clearly a mistake for Squeenix. I hope they didn't make the same mistake with FF7R.

Final Fantasy XV's director, Hajime Tabata, on the open world and Niflheim

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