There's this weird idea that politics aren't about people ? Any Final Fantasy that focused a lot on politics were far more invested into people than the ones that aren't. See: FFT, FF9, FF12
FF15 is said to hit that "emotional core" because it seemingly dismiss politics, but it's not true. It just uses it to prop up Noctis as the rightful king, but it is exactly what people criticizes of other games: the people of the kingdom of Noctis are just pawns to justify his suffering and motivations as he arises as the man of foretold legends, they're not actual people you take the time to meet and see how much they have to deal with the occupation. Just see how no one cares about Jared because his death is merely a justification for Noctis to vent his anger, nothing else.
I'd say FF15 is exactly what some people criticizes in other Final Fantasy games, and this is a huge reason why I have issues with FF15.
What else would someone who spends their days writing paragraphs on a turd as XV be?
What does this even mean?I'd almost be willing to give your FFVIII (which you didn't list), but at least the stories in FFVI, FFVII, FFIX, and even FFX mostly made sense and the characters had reasonable motivations to their actions and understandable reactions to what transpired during their adventures.
FFVIII, FFXIII, FFXV and most of the Kingdom Hearts games are just fucking belts and zippers nonsense. VIII to a somewhat lesser extent.
Also why do characters wearing belts and zippers = bad story? X had probably the most loud design choices yet the story is pretty universally likedWhat does this even mean?
VIII has one of the most toned down artstyles in the series and the only character with belts is Squall. His belts are placed appropriately unlike Kingdom Hearts where they are unnecessarily added to designs.
Like VIII's story or not, the execution was on par with any other Final Fantasy game in that it gave you all the needed information and development to make a satisfying conclusion. Something XV failed at when originally released(I enjoyed XV but it's story was handled poorly) and had to fix with patches.
That sidequest is just a fetch quest getting a bunch of logs, first 10 logs then 20 logs then 30 logs then 50 logs, the pitioss sidequest or any of the optional dungeons sidequests are better than that.Show me a side quest in FFXV thats as good as Tarrey Town quest. I'll wait. Dont bring BOTW into this please.
Are you serious withis second statement?
FF7,8,9 and 10 all have much much better stories. come on dude.
Nomura only designed the face/hair/body build of Noctis, Ignis, Gladio, Prompto and Cor. Roen designed their outfits.I believe he is credited as the main character designer, whatever that is.
That's not true at all, even remotely. The party in XV are developed moreso than any other FF party is with a far better display of their dynamic and teamwork through everything they do in the game, across their animations, banter, story dialog, camp events, gameplay and link attacks and teamwork in combat, the story events themselves.Kinda sad that the 15 cast is like a gathering of Amarants. Nothing to them unless they patched it or fixed it with the DLC.
But even if they did it would be like Bioware selling loyalty mission of their side characters through DLC.
Maybe the next FF can surpass 15 by only having 2 important characters and still absolutely failing at delivering an arc for them. Honestly FF15 has probably about as many characters of any significance as the recent GoW but we're in a time now where a GoW game executes with more competence on character arcs than a friggin FF game.
The characters do grow, evolve, have strong personalities and a great dynamic that you very clearly see develop over the course of the game, and the banter all feeds back into their strong dynamic which is why they work so well as a party. If repeated dialog is seriously your gripe then you should just stop playing video games altogether. Bioware didn't come close to making the characters feel as lively as the XV party is as seen through everything they do in the game through animations and combat to their story dialog and banter, to all the unique dialog they have in dungeons or in quests, to how they act and grow as a result of story progression.The banter is truly B tier inconsequential, it also repeats way too often. Isn't it so affecting to hear the same banter nonappropriate lines repeat after Prompto's moment?
Bioware did this shit already and way better in 2010. That FF15 managed to learn nothing from all those games within the timespan up to its release is pretty mind boggling.
I truly wish I could just enjoy the mindless and empty flash. But nah I actually need for my characters to grow, evolve, have personalities in my RPGs.
You're not even trying anymore, and I question whether you even really played XV at this point.It's actually really funny thinking about all the games that are nowadays eclipsing the shoddy story work in FF15. I don't play call of duty but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if someone told me that one of those games has better character work and a more coherent core narrative than 15. For all the deserved criticism Cage games get at least there is something there to criticize. Meanwhile there is only the absence of things to lament in 15, the things that should/could have been.
Sounds like you closed your eyes on every cutscene and muted the audio and disabled subtitles if that's seriously the impression you got from XV, even at launch.I've been trying as much as you have? I played the game but only the launch version.
Don't do my boy Jared like that. Jared is the heart and soul of FFXV.
You don't need to be making passive aggressive remarks when people question your reasoning in your "criticism" for valid reasons. You literally tried to say that the cast in XV have no personality or character growth which is, yes, objectively wrong.I don't know man I feel a lot of people share similar opinions. Is it really realistic that we all played it with closed eyes and audio muted? I feel like you're being very uncharitable and disingenuous in your love for the game with that argument. But it's ok if that's what it takes for you to feel the validation I can take it :). But don't expect me to agree with your baseless accusations.
It's actually really funny thinking about all the games that are nowadays eclipsing the shoddy story work in FF15. I don't play call of duty but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if someone told me that one of those games has better character work and a more coherent core narrative than 15. For all the deserved criticism Cage games get at least there is something there to criticize. Meanwhile there is only the absence of things to lament in 15, the things that should/could have been.
I legit laughed when the game was all sad and melancholy over him, lol.
What a terrible misfire, what were they thinking.
Now you're just putting words in my mouth and making things up that no one ever said.I'm as passive aggressive you've been? Which to be clear I don't think I've been at all?
I just kinda tend to mirror the way people respond to me. So if people make baseless accusations of how I don't deserve to have an opinion cause it's opposite to theirs and how I maybe even didn't play the game, well *shrug*.
I dunno about objectively wrong. Objectively speaking your main party didn't have any proper character arcs which is supposedly why they did the episodes.
I think comparing it to them selling bioware style loyalty missions is pretty fair. Or maybe not maybe the episodes are actually just fluff content that don't add anything meaningful to the game and thus leave it with the same problems then of course it would be wrong of me to say that they're selling bioware loyalty missions that are meant to expand on characters meaningfully.
Prompto is puckish and constantly trying to raise the spirits of his friends, always with a smile on his face and trying his best to be worthy and seen as useful, which itself is expressed through not only his dialog but through how he presents himself in combat with his overzealous animations where he tries so hard he often flails around, and as the game progresses he becomes more and more composed and starts to deal with his deep seated insecurites because of him not really being a "true" Lucian, which he has a complete identity crisis because of which even leads to self harm, and how he puts on his puckish and upbeat attitude to raise his friends spirits to hide his deep seated insecurities, not only around being royalty but also around Ignis who provides so much for hte party and Gladio with his protective nature and strength to help the party, Prompto feels compelled to keep pushing himself to be useful even though he himself considers himself to be worthless, he is a multilayered character that you cannot have played XV and come away thinking that Prompto has no depth, unless you skipped every single cutscene in the game and his DLC and muted the audio and disabled subtitles and didn't look at a single thing that happened in the game, aka, you are wrong about everything you just said.
Gladio too a headstrong military man who practices training his body and his mind to do his job, not only in protecting his king but in protecting his fellow comrades, he pushes himself and then he pushes Noctis even harder because he knows Noctis can take it, he believes in Noctis's strength because he's seen it himself, as a result he's also quick to anger whenever Noctis keeps slouching around because without Noctis fulfilling his own calling then Gladio keeps questioning his own, if it's really worth it for this prince or not, and that is something he keeps dealing with and is constantly brought up as a source of conflict that comes to a head during Chapter 10 when even after Ignis getting blinded and Lunafreya being killed, Noctis is still dragging his feet instead of doing what Luna risked her life trying to get Noctis to do, and what Ignis sacrificed his eyes for Noctis to do. And as a result of that arguement they have it rechecks all of the characters resolve, their focus and their dedication for the cause, because Gladio knows it is life or death and he doesn't think Noctis is taking it seriosly enough, which is why he keeps pushing him so hard, again because he knows Noctis can take it. Characters with idiosyncrasies who aren't perfect, that is what the characters in XV are, they feel human, they feel like actual people, they feel developed and they all have depth. Again you are wrong.
Ignis, the ever perfectist devout to his cause in not only making sure Noctis becomes an upstanding king but as a person himself, while Ignis prides himself on his superior intellect and his military tactician acumen, he also provides a glue that helps the main party function on their day to day events, his compassion in wanting to raise Noctis as he was directly tasked with doing by Regis, to be like a brother to Noctis, is something Ignis takes completely seriously, always at his side even at combat, supporting the party not only in combat but in their travels by driving them around, cooking meals fit for a prince, forming their every plan of action, this perfectionism in Ignis to stive to do his best to not only protect Noctis but to better himself is why he became such a skilled cool, as Noctis was without a mother as a child and Ignis also sort of filled in those shoes too be always being there for him, and why he studied so hard and made sure Noctis was also studying and keeping up to date on his royal duties, so that he could advise the one day king in his duties too. And all that came to a sudden screeching halt when Ignis sacrificed his eyesight for Noctis's cause, now being the one that has to depend on everyone else while previous being the one that everyone depended on, it comes as a massive shift and transition for him to no longer be able to provide the services he once cool as well as he could, which is what he deals with and works on for 10 years during the world of ruin so that he can try and become better than he was before even without his eyes, it really tests his resolve and pushes him to his limits. Again nothing about this is "one dimentional" and you still clearly havn'nt understood any of the characters if you honestly believe this.
And with Noctis, the renegade prince who rejects the rigid rules of royal convention, who acts and does as he pleases, which itself is not only seen in how he acts, talks and presents himself but in the interests and hobbies he takes that are not what you expect when you think of a prince, he fears the day that he would have to be king because that means his father would be dead, and his worst fear comes true when Regis is killed, and Noctis drags his feet and doesn't fully grasp the weight of his calling, loss after loss from his homeland to his father to his fiance to his best friends eyesight, the weight of it all starts piling on and after the loss of his powers he is pushed into a corner which forces him to accept his calling, he is pushed to his limit until he finally accepts his calling, only to be told he must sacrifice himself in order to save everyone, something he feared as he knew Luna died for his sake but didn't want to admit it until it was too late. When he has accepted his calling his moves forward, he accepts the deaths before his and with his head carried high he leads everyone after he returns, renewed, kingly in composure and fully accepting his royal responsibilities, which is now even reflected in how he looks, dresses and talks in a more refined and composed manner, compared to before where he was more blunt and brusque. Once again you have shown you didn't even try to understand what the games story was about.
All four of them work in a cohesive dynamic where they all bound off each other, they all work extremely well with one another with Noctis and Prompto being the youngers of the group and having a more playful relationship compared to Ignis and Gladio, which is more of a mutual respectful relationship of the two olders in the group who know what is at stake while the two younger of the group aren't as keenly aware, to Ignis and Prompto's relationship which is more like Ignis tolerating but also secretlly enjoying his bafoonery and playfulness while Prompto sees Ignis as this more stuckup guy that bosses them around but trusts his leadership and knows how dependable he is, which itself is reflected in chapter 10 when Ignis is blinded and Prompto is the one who is mainly with Ignis guiding him around now because of the flip in circumstances and Ignis's status as being the most dependable one was taken from him as a result of his blinding, and that itself shows how not only the party dynamic grows and changes over the course of the game but how they all grow as people and feel and act like real people, and not "one note" characters like you are trying to pretend they are, not even close.
Oh so you didn't implicitly argue me not having played the game here then? My bad sorry I misunderstood and put words in your mouth.You're not even trying anymore, and I question whether you even really played XV at this point.
I questioned whether you really played it or not because you were making blatant falsehoods regarding the game, like you literally saying there was no character growth and they have no personality, as if that is somehow fact when it isn't at all.Oh so you didn't implicitly argue me not having played the game here then? My bad sorry I misunderstood and put words in your mouth.
As for them having no depth or any kind of meaningful personality it's cause they don't really grow and change. They all kinda serve noctis for the heck of it. I certainly never saw any motivation in them that made any sense whatsoever nor did I see Noctis displaying something that would inspire such loyalty. Neither did the game show me anything about where the affection between Luna and Noctis stems from. It's basically all no show. But I guess some players are really good at filling voids? Maybe that's the issue. Or I have to watch kingsglaive and the anime.
I dunno about calling characters so estranged from what actual people seem to be like as layered. I just honestly feel the writers didn't think too much about it and kinda made the things happen as they needed them to happen for the main story and wrote everything else around it. It just feels very messy poorly thought out.
Except I gave specific examples from within the game of their character development and growth, of their strong dynamic and well established personalities. Which I explained in my post here.People constantly defending this game with nothing but thin praise ('they have excellent character growth!') and no argument within game to prove it remind me of that time I thought BvS was great even in its theatrical form.
Imagine if this wasn't a Final Fantasy game but instead some third party game released randomly, none of you would care as much.
Prompto is puckish and constantly trying to raise the spirits of his friends, always with a smile on his face and trying his best to be worthy and seen as useful, which itself is expressed through not only his dialog but through how he presents himself in combat with his overzealous animations where he tries so hard he often flails around, and as the game progresses he becomes more and more composed and starts to deal with his deep seated insecurites because of him not really being a "true" Lucian, which he has a complete identity crisis because of which even leads to self harm, and how he puts on his puckish and upbeat attitude to raise his friends spirits to hide his deep seated insecurities, not only around being royalty but also around Ignis who provides so much for hte party and Gladio with his protective nature and strength to help the party, Prompto feels compelled to keep pushing himself to be useful even though he himself considers himself to be worthless, he is a multilayered character that you cannot have played XV and come away thinking that Prompto has no depth, unless you skipped every single cutscene in the game and his DLC and muted the audio and disabled subtitles and didn't look at a single thing that happened in the game, aka, you are wrong about everything you just said.
Gladio too a headstrong military man who practices training his body and his mind to do his job, not only in protecting his king but in protecting his fellow comrades, he pushes himself and then he pushes Noctis even harder because he knows Noctis can take it, he believes in Noctis's strength because he's seen it himself, as a result he's also quick to anger whenever Noctis keeps slouching around because without Noctis fulfilling his own calling then Gladio keeps questioning his own, if it's really worth it for this prince or not, and that is something he keeps dealing with and is constantly brought up as a source of conflict that comes to a head during Chapter 10 when even after Ignis getting blinded and Lunafreya being killed, Noctis is still dragging his feet instead of doing what Luna risked her life trying to get Noctis to do, and what Ignis sacrificed his eyes for Noctis to do. And as a result of that arguement they have it rechecks all of the characters resolve, their focus and their dedication for the cause, because Gladio knows it is life or death and he doesn't think Noctis is taking it seriosly enough, which is why he keeps pushing him so hard, again because he knows Noctis can take it. Characters with idiosyncrasies who aren't perfect, that is what the characters in XV are, they feel human, they feel like actual people, they feel developed and they all have depth. Again you are wrong.
Ignis, the ever perfectist devout to his cause in not only making sure Noctis becomes an upstanding king but as a person himself, while Ignis prides himself on his superior intellect and his military tactician acumen, he also provides a glue that helps the main party function on their day to day events, his compassion in wanting to raise Noctis as he was directly tasked with doing by Regis, to be like a brother to Noctis, is something Ignis takes completely seriously, always at his side even at combat, supporting the party not only in combat but in their travels by driving them around, cooking meals fit for a prince, forming their every plan of action, this perfectionism in Ignis to stive to do his best to not only protect Noctis but to better himself is why he became such a skilled cool, as Noctis was without a mother as a child and Ignis also sort of filled in those shoes too be always being there for him, and why he studied so hard and made sure Noctis was also studying and keeping up to date on his royal duties, so that he could advise the one day king in his duties too. And all that came to a sudden screeching halt when Ignis sacrificed his eyesight for Noctis's cause, now being the one that has to depend on everyone else while previous being the one that everyone depended on, it comes as a massive shift and transition for him to no longer be able to provide the services he once cool as well as he could, which is what he deals with and works on for 10 years during the world of ruin so that he can try and become better than he was before even without his eyes, it really tests his resolve and pushes him to his limits. Again nothing about this is "one dimentional" and you still clearly havn'nt understood any of the characters if you honestly believe this.
And with Noctis, the renegade prince who rejects the rigid rules of royal convention, who acts and does as he pleases, which itself is not only seen in how he acts, talks and presents himself but in the interests and hobbies he takes that are not what you expect when you think of a prince, he fears the day that he would have to be king because that means his father would be dead, and his worst fear comes true when Regis is killed, and Noctis drags his feet and doesn't fully grasp the weight of his calling, loss after loss from his homeland to his father to his fiance to his best friends eyesight, the weight of it all starts piling on and after the loss of his powers he is pushed into a corner which forces him to accept his calling, he is pushed to his limit until he finally accepts his calling, only to be told he must sacrifice himself in order to save everyone, something he feared as he knew Luna died for his sake but didn't want to admit it until it was too late. When he has accepted his calling his moves forward, he accepts the deaths before his and with his head carried high he leads everyone after he returns, renewed, kingly in composure and fully accepting his royal responsibilities, which is now even reflected in how he looks, dresses and talks in a more refined and composed manner, compared to before where he was more blunt and brusque. Once again you have shown you didn't even try to understand what the games story was about.
All four of them work in a cohesive dynamic where they all bound off each other, they all work extremely well with one another with Noctis and Prompto being the youngers of the group and having a more playful relationship compared to Ignis and Gladio, which is more of a mutual respectful relationship of the two olders in the group who know what is at stake while the two younger of the group aren't as keenly aware, to Ignis and Prompto's relationship which is more like Ignis tolerating but also secretlly enjoying his bafoonery and playfulness while Prompto sees Ignis as this more stuckup guy that bosses them around but trusts his leadership and knows how dependable he is, which itself is reflected in chapter 10 when Ignis is blinded and Prompto is the one who is mainly with Ignis guiding him around now because of the flip in circumstances and Ignis's status as being the most dependable one was taken from him as a result of his blinding, and that itself shows how not only the party dynamic grows and changes over the course of the game but how they all grow as people and feel and act like real people, and not "one note" characters like you are trying to pretend they are, not even close.
I would agree with this with the exception of 1-3. But that's like saying it's the worst Ben and jerry's Flavour. It's still excellent.It's the worst single-player FF story ever told in my opinion.
Big events happening off-screen only added to the confusion as well. I enjoyed the gameplay at times and found the dungeons challenging but even that does not make up for the mess that was offered to us at launch.
Yea it's almost as bad as 13 in that regard.
OG ending was good though....it's as if they had the concept of the ending before everything else.
I don't play call of duty but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if someone told me that one of those games has better character work and a more coherent core narrative than 15.
I would agree with this with the exception of 1-3. But that's like saying it's the worst Ben and jerry's Flavour. It's still excellent.
I'm not a neutral party since I worked on it, but I would be very curious as to your experience of the story in Infinite Warfare, and the characters of Nora Salter, Ethan, etc. I think it holds up very well, especially compared to something like FF15.
It was one of the worst written stories I've ever experienced. I can only imagine the development hell the writers went through.
I'm not a neutral party since I worked on it, but I would be very curious as to your experience of the story in Infinite Warfare, and the characters of Nora Salter, Ethan, etc. I think it holds up very well, especially compared to something like FF15.
Also why do characters wearing belts and zippers = bad story? X had probably the most loud design choices yet the story is pretty universally liked
The problem is that for a lot of it you had to read codexes to get a firm grasp on it but then there are things like Sazh' arc in the OG game and Caius in XIII-2.