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jnWake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,108
For AR I usually run L'Arachel, Lyon, Young Azura, Myrrh and LEirika. Only the non-5* have any merges and I do pretty well on offense.

You don't really need +10s or anything, just smart usage of skills. Lyon with TA for example barely receives any damage from healers/archers and green heroes while also hitting pretty hard on the counter. Stack some Tactic skills or Drives and pretty much anyone can become a powerhouse.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
I have a couple of different teams for AR offense, though I'm not totally happy with all of them yet. Like three of them are based around tackling slightly different horse dancer setups, which is silly because I should figure out how to do that with less teams.

I try to incorporate some of my merged arena units because the stats do help, but for the most part my main drivers are unmerged units like Loki and Veronica. Or unmerged 5* units like S.Corrin or Hrid.

It's not that F2P friendly though. So many bases would be unbreakable without losses for me if I didn't pick Veronica as my free pick, or if I didn't pull a Loki.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,208
I've only had 6 AR defenses this season (3W 3L) but I haven't lost any lift from them yet for whatever reason.
I think my rank actually went UP in the last half day.

Fjorm vs Ylgr, huh? I guess I'll go with COUGH because the Ice Gremlin doesn't feel like showing up to my barracks.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
I've only had 6 AR defenses this season (3W 3L) but I haven't lost any lift from them yet for whatever reason.
I think my rank actually went UP in the last half day.
I'm at 5 successful defenses out of 11 people attacking me, though only 3 are deathless. No lift lost at all from defenses either.

Maybe you lose no lift if you kill at least one person on the attacking team?

On an unrelated note, has anyone been getting good use out of W.Lissa? I have one and I really liked her when she first came out, but I feel like Cherche and B.Ephriam are just better versions of her in every way now.
 

Mr. Virus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,655
I'm at 5 successful defenses out of 11 people attacking me, though only 3 are deathless. No lift lost at all from defenses either.

Maybe you lose no lift if you kill at least one person on the attacking team?

On an unrelated note, has anyone been getting good use out of W.Lissa? I have one and I really liked her when she first came out, but I feel like Cherche and B.Ephriam are just better versions of her in every way now.

W!Lissa has way more res and similar physical defensive stats to them. She can run Ploys for team support beyond the usual armour stuff, and a refined Slaying Axe + Bold Fighter lets her proc specials really easily as well as giving further boosts to her stats. I have Sturdy Blow and Def refine on mine to beef up Ignis, but Death Blow works too. Have Def Ploy as her seal to help squish things.

She can also do a Distant Counter/Vengeful Fighter build pretty well with her native weapon, and can get enough speed with a boon, seal and refinement to avoid being doubled by most, if you're worried about that sort of thing.

Tl;dr: she's a full spectrum tank that can dish out a fair amount of damage and has decent player, mixed and enemy phase builds.


In other news, I might be blowing 60k worth of feathers to build Azama :|. Turns out he's pretty good with the right play style. Not sure what to run as his A slot: Fortress Def (Have plenty) Close Counter (Have that free Takumi) or Close Def (which is feathers). Anyone else have one built up?
 

Mr. Virus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,655
If you have a spare 4* Silas, use Steady Stance 3. Save some feathers.

I have a spare 5* one who I was saving for the Wave skill, but may do that! I have a spare 4* Joshua who I'm definitely not going to use, so it's between dealing with archers or dragons really. He's +Def/-Res so a bit concerned about the latter ruining him.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
W!Lissa has way more res and similar physical defensive stats to them. She can run Ploys for team support beyond the usual armour stuff, and a refined Slaying Axe + Bold Fighter lets her proc specials really easily as well as giving further boosts to her stats. I have Sturdy Blow and Def refine on mine to beef up Ignis, but Death Blow works too. Have Def Ploy as her seal to help squish things.

She can also do a Distant Counter/Vengeful Fighter build pretty well with her native weapon, and can get enough speed with a boon, seal and refinement to avoid being doubled by most, if you're worried about that sort of thing.

Tl;dr: she's a full spectrum tank that can dish out a fair amount of damage and has decent player, mixed and enemy phase builds.


In other news, I might be blowing 60k worth of feathers to build Azama :|. Turns out he's pretty good with the right play style. Not sure what to run as his A slot: Fortress Def (Have plenty) Close Counter (Have that free Takumi) or Close Def (which is feathers). Anyone else have one built up?
Thanks. Her res is a good point. My B.Ephriam's main cause of death is any cav magic unit blowing him up (usually Veronica), and he's +res lol.

I know a friend who has Azama with close counter and Vantage on his defense base. The idea is to be tanky and land a few more pain hits before getting inevitably taken out.

I ran into an interesting attack team on my base today. Someone shuffled Elise close enough to hit my team with Gravity and Savage Blow, then danced to safety more easily thanks to the gravity effect. Then the player bum rushed my defense team with a cav + dancer. That was an interesting alternative to bringing Loki for ranged movement debuffs.

Dude basically suicided Rein into me though, because he didn't have enough dances left to take out my remaining units after going in. I think he just wanted the win and didn't mind losing a unit or two to do it.
 

Mr. Virus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,655
Thanks. Her res is a good point. My B.Ephriam's main cause of death is any cav magic unit blowing him up (usually Veronica), and he's +res lol.

I know a friend who has Azama with close counter and Vantage on his defense base. The idea is to be tanky and land a few more pain hits before getting inevitably taken out.

I ran into an interesting attack team on my base today. Someone shuffled Elise close enough to hit my team with Gravity and Savage Blow, then danced to safety more easily thanks to the gravity effect. Then the player bum rushed my defense team with a cav + dancer. That was an interesting alternative to bringing Loki for ranged movement debuffs.

Dude basically suicided Rein into me though, because he didn't have enough dances left to take out my remaining units after going in. I think he just wanted the win and didn't mind losing a unit or two to do it.

I pulled the trigger with Close Counter and building a team around that. Veronica's Buffs + Close Guard + the Close Def seal on Azama take him up to 49 def on melee which should let him chip away at things before someone else snipes the kill. Have Distant Guard there as well because why not, and Guard as his B skill for more lols.
 

Jims

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,237
Wow, people here were right about Cecilia in Aether Raids. She is really inexpensive to setup as a cavalry counter in the mode. I hadn't been using her because her defense stats looks so unimpressive in the mid 20s... But had forgotten how much that 40% Triangle Adept advantage (and using Distant Defense seal) changes things. Veronica and Reinhardt just bounces off of her repeatedly for no damage. And it just costs only a Setsuna to give her Bowbreaker for BLyn. Really nice F2P unit for AR.

Been seeing people make super defensive setups with Armors trapped in a box, so I ended up making a Savage Veronica/Jaffar + 2 dancers team. Debating whether to give Windsweep to Jaffar, if he really is just part of Team Chip Damage now. Probably should.
 

Mr. Virus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,655
I pulled the trigger with Close Counter and building a team around that. Veronica's Buffs + Close Guard + the Close Def seal on Azama take him up to 49 def on melee which should let him chip away at things before someone else snipes the kill. Have Distant Guard there as well because why not, and Guard as his B skill for more lols.

After a bit of tomfoolery with seals, it turns out Azama really likes Atk/Def Bond. Gives him just enough Atk to kill a number of units after wearing them down, plus keeps him sturdy. The team comp I have around around him helps too, with buffs from Veronica, Close/Distant Guard and being next to his partner unit giving him 42 Atk and 50 Def (or 46/54 if anyone got the debuff). Have Hone Atk on his partner unit too to keep that up.

Gimmicky as hell and dunno how it'll work against certain teams, but it's fun to play around with.
 
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Deleted member 46429

Self-requested ban
Banned
Aug 4, 2018
2,185
Honestly, I feel the only reason I'm bothering with AR is my favorite character (Arvis) needs grails for merges.

The issue basically boils down to the fact not having a good defense team is so extremely punishing that everyone is relying on the same set of tricks (i.e. hide a bunch of ranged units, esp. wrazzle dazzle healers behind walls) and the mode is exhausting, frustrating, and just unfun now. I really hope IS makes improvements soon, because the mode was so good when it started out but now it's ehhhh.
 

Roman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
720
I think it's highly questionable design that in order to stay competitive you have to play it every day, but at the same time it severely restricts how much you can play it. Just seems utterly bizarre to me.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
I kinda like the limited fights per day. Each base is so hard to crack these days that it takes me a long time to figure out what I want to do against it, so doing two a day is about right for me. I actually breathe a sigh of relief if I get a base that doesn't look like much effort went into it.
Wow, people here were right about Cecilia in Aether Raids. She is really inexpensive to setup as a cavalry counter in the mode. I hadn't been using her because her defense stats looks so unimpressive in the mid 20s... But had forgotten how much that 40% Triangle Adept advantage (and using Distant Defense seal) changes things. Veronica and Reinhardt just bounces off of her repeatedly for no damage. And it just costs only a Setsuna to give her Bowbreaker for BLyn. Really nice F2P unit for AR.

Been seeing people make super defensive setups with Armors trapped in a box, so I ended up making a Savage Veronica/Jaffar + 2 dancers team. Debating whether to give Windsweep to Jaffar, if he really is just part of Team Chip Damage now. Probably should.
Depends on who you want Jaffar to hit. His refine has a sweep effect on mages, so it might be better to just give him poison strike or something if you're specifically gunning for tanky mages like Bride Lyn or Halloween Henry.
 

NSESN

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,336
Most gachas actually force you to grind to stay competitive so at least Feh is better at this
 

Wilsongt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,511
I think it's highly questionable design that in order to stay competitive you have to play it every day, but at the same time it severely restricts how much you can play it. Just seems utterly bizarre to me.

Considering how they throw stamina potiona at you, there should be no issue with daily playtime.

Just daily money you spend for +10 newly released units.
 

Scum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,024
Considering how they throw stamina potiona at you, there should be no issue with daily playtime.

Just daily money you spend for +10 newly released units.
FLm9W.jpg


Maybe you misunderstood? Roman is referring to the dumbass late game design of Aether Raids. You can only play it once a day when you hit the upper Ranks. Aether needs to be available more. :P
 

Lusamine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,047
Honestly, I feel the only reason I'm bothering with AR is my favorite character (Arvis) needs grails for merges.

The issue basically boils down to the fact not having a good defense team is so extremely punishing that everyone is relying on the same set of tricks (i.e. hide a bunch of ranged units, esp. wrazzle dazzle healers behind walls) and the mode is exhausting, frustrating, and just unfun now. I really hope IS makes improvements soon, because the mode was so good when it started out but now it's ehhhh.
You make the mode sound amazing, the more people that get discouraged, the higher I rank! If you keep fighting the same tactics, surely you have a team set up to obliterate them.
 

Deleted member 46429

Self-requested ban
Banned
Aug 4, 2018
2,185
That doesn't make it fun tho

The basic AR setup I described--lots of ranged units hiding behind walls--has a straightforward weakness, namely strong enemy phase oriented units (e.g. Julius, Cecilia, etc.) can usually murder most of the team and soak up enough Veronica damage that a strong PP unit, like Reinhardt, can kill them next turn. There's reasons why this AR works despite having such a straightforward weakness (e.g. Veronica survives EP approach, which is why she's the most common unit on these teams), but that's not really the point.

The point is since all AR are tending towards the same basic design, I feel like I've seen all the mode has to offer. If it weren't for grails, I'd have checked out because it'll be a case of 'been there, seen that.' And the thing is, AR looked like a mode that could really anchor FEH's lategame, so it's frustating that the rewards are the only reason I'm sticking around.
 

Lusamine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,047
That doesn't make it fun tho

The basic AR setup I described--lots of ranged units hiding behind walls--has a straightforward weakness, namely strong enemy phase oriented units (e.g. Julius, Cecilia, etc.) can usually murder most of the team and soak up enough Veronica damage that a strong PP unit, like Reinhardt, can kill them next turn. There's reasons why this AR works despite having such a straightforward weakness (e.g. Veronica survives EP approach, which is why she's the most common unit on these teams), but that's not really the point.

The point is since all AR are tending towards the same basic design, I feel like I've seen all the mode has to offer. If it weren't for grails, I'd have checked out because it'll be a case of 'been there, seen that.' And the thing is, AR looked like a mode that could really anchor FEH's lategame, so it's frustating that the rewards are the only reason I'm sticking around.
Don't worry, I'm sure you're going to see more armor stall teams this coming season, though since we're at a rank where you get 1 play a day and maybe 2, you might not.
 

Sterok

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,085
AR just needs a casual mode where you can battle to your hearts content without rewards or consequence, similar to Arena Assault. Limiting the battles that matter stop grinding and prevent the daily missions from getting overwhelming, but it's still a fairly unique section of gameplay that can be fun to tackle a lot of times if you're in the mood.
 

jnWake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,108
AR just needs a casual mode where you can battle to your hearts content without rewards or consequence, similar to Arena Assault. Limiting the battles that matter stop grinding and prevent the daily missions from getting overwhelming, but it's still a fairly unique section of gameplay that can be fun to tackle a lot of times if you're in the mood.
Yep. I'm also hoping we eventually get Developer AR maps or special AR maps. The foundations of the mode are really fun so I hope they recycle them for other stuff.
 

Chalphy

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,561
I can appreciate Fjorm winning. She introduced Book 2, and now she gets one last victory before Book 3 starts this week.
 

Hours Left

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,432
Even though Fjorm is relatively similar to a damp sponge, at least Ylgr didn't win.

Fun Fact: Everyone on team Ylgr is now on the FBI watch list.
 

Bonejack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,654
Well, Fjorm is no Laegjarn, but ok, second best girl won. Gladly take the 500 feathers, always nice because from the design of the VG, i always miss the highest multipliers, if there are any, during the night. It's basically impossible to reach the highest ranks of VG if you're missing out some near 150k points.

Also, call me insane, but i'll gladly take this one day of peace with the AR being locked until tomorrow. Gotta level up some of my remaining untrained 5* ... like Mist ... before Book 3, and collect some near threshold Hero Merit feathers. But if i calculated correctly, i have enough Aether Stones to unlock the 5th def team member by end of the week. I already have the catapult buildings for both offense and defense, so i can save up the Aether Stones from the rewards for that. ^^

Arena was a real thriller this week, until sunday afternoon i kept dropping like a rock even with my 3740 score ... i'm still dropping, currently 2711 from 3359, but it's less fast than yesterday and i think that the difference is too big for me to drop out of the rise to T21 tier. Still, holy point inflation Batman!

Also, just noticed on YouTube that the Feh Channel airs at 11 pm here in Germany, even better than midnight like i thought before, first time i see one of those live. ^^

Any idea if the heroic grail units will be replaced by a new set? Or more will be added to the pool.

I think they'll be added to the pool, this was made to have the TT/GHB unite more available, removing/rotating them wouldn't really fit. So you should at least be able to get Aversa and Minodorcas tomorrow, maybe even Smolzura and Gharnef. The last two could still be too "fresh" though, so maybe it's best to just keep expecting Dorcas and Aversa. ^^
 
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LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,380
Yeah, not looking forward to surtr raids beginning soon, even though I'm definitely going to be contributing to the problem.

Interesting about the lift change that they've mentioned. I wonder what it'll be, hopefully not something stupid like you get 20 extra per bonus unit, instead of capping it at one unit. They needed to do something to make it actually possible to clear the tier 20->21 gap, anyway.
 
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Wilsongt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,511
Managed to gain 40-something orbs in the last couple of days. Probably going to continue to sit on them because I doubt the next couple of banners have anything I want/won't be able to pull, anyway.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171

Bonejack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,654
Hmm ... i might not be safe after all in Arena, currently 2856 of 3394 and dropping ... What's with that score inflation? Not even Batmyrrh and Liki had such effects.
 

Westlo

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,659
Surtr in the players hands doing Arena runs is one of the most boring yet OP units ever in this game, he's end turn personified. He's basically how arena was before the bonus unit change except instead of putting the right color armor unit down, it's just Surtr.

Anyway there's no way 3.0 is going to "save the game" for so many people tomorrow.... I'll be looking for a solid start to book 3 that the next 3-4 months upto the 2nd anniversary will consolidate it.

Hmm ... i might not be safe after all in Arena, currently 2856 of 3394 and dropping ... What's with that score inflation? Not even Batmyrrh and Liki had such effects.

Someone with good variance can probably put together 3 +10 Surtrs in the same amount of orbs as someone with average luck going for H!Myrrh.... that's the difference between a 2 character focus banner with green as the main target vs 4 person with red... Going from the cheapest possible +10 to the most expensive.

I already have a +10 Surtr and thought, wouldn't it be great if I can pull one more and give it to Est after her refine? Had 10 orbs, now I have 1 Orb and Steady Stance 4 ready to fodder.... the sad part is.. it's harder (not counting black knight) to get myself steady stance 1 fodder than it is to get steady stance 4.

I hope that's addressed in 3.0, that you can learn 4 skills as long as they're from the same skill chain.
 
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Bonejack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,654
Bit the bullet, dropped 20k feathers (back to 97k ;_;) and gave Laegjarn Aether and switched to her duel skill. Made another run with cherry picking scores and got 3756, now sitting at rank something 1000 of those ~3400 that rise back to T21.

What difference two skills make ...

VG quests maybe caused a lot of people who don't bother with the arena to play? Best idea I got. :/

People who +10 heroes, outside of their favs of course, do that purely for Arena/Arena Assault. Don't think VG has anything to do with that. ^^

I think it's so stupidly easy to get a +10 Surtr that it's causing inflation on the high end.

Dunno, i've fought a huge share of +10 Batmyrrhs and Likis during their run as bonus units, and back then i could reach T20.5 without a hassle, even using an unmerged bonus unit. To be fair, it's been earth season and i can reach the highest scores during those, but still, there's got to be a reason for this score inflation outside of Surtr.

Someone with good variance can probably put together 3 +10 Surtrs in the same amount of orbs as someone with average luck going for H!Myrrh.... that's the difference between a 2 character focus banner with green as the main target vs 4 person with red... Going from the cheapest possible +10 to the most expensive.

I already have a +10 Surtr and thought, wouldn't it be great if I can pull one more and give it to Est after her refine? Had 10 orbs, now I have 1 Orb and Steady Stance 4 ready to fodder.... the sad part is.. it's harder (not counting black knight) to get myself steady stance 1 fodder than it is to get steady stance 4.

I hope that's addressed in 3.0, that you can learn 4 skills as long as they're from the same skill chain.

Ironically, i've seen more +10 Sorens/Ninos and Oliviairs with their colors duel skill than +10 Surtrs in the run i just did. Maybe it's the combination of Water season with Surtr, as iirc the water and fire seasons can push the thresholds up quite a bit?

About Steady Stance, blue's you best shot for Silas ... if there's ever going to be hero trading, i can give you one of the 8 4* ones i have ... dude is a pest for me whenever i pull on blue orbs.
 
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Westlo

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,659
I wonder if IS will mess up and give one of the units a broken refine tomorrow, they usually reserve the top tier refines to the exclusive units.... especially ones from SoV...

Ironically, i've seen more +10 Sorens/Ninos and Oliviairs with their colors duel skill than +10 Surtrs in the run i just did. Maybe it's the combination of Water season with Surtr, as iirc the water and fire seasons can push the thresholds up quite a bit?

About Steady Stance, blue's you best shot for Silas ... if there's ever going to be hero trading, i can give you one of the 8 4* ones i have ... dude is a pest for me whenever i pull on blue orbs.

I did an arena run of 3800, my highest ever and two back to back Arena Assault runs (lost 3 units first time, lost one the second run thanks to not paying attention to YT!Olivias WOM.....) and I reckon a plus ten surtr was in every match except for 2.

I kinda cheated with my Surtr a bit and run with Bonfire, I figured I had enough score to stay in T21 and I was right.... I'll Aether/Galeforce him next week I guess depending on what happens with the FEH channel.....

Yeah it's water season and Fjorm is a bonus unit, scores are always inflated during these weeks because a lot of T20.5/T21 have highly merged Fjorms due to her being a legendary and a rotational bonus unit. Surtr just pushed things overboard big time... and as for Fire a lot of players built a Lector because coming with B!Ike and Myrrh was just amazing, no other legendary hero has had better pity breakers....

Personally I wind blessed my Surtr so I can benefit from him over the next month.

I did manage too pull one Silas during my hunt for Surtr... got two Yglrs and only one Silas.. but I don't like foddering off the last/only copy of a unit I have....
 

Bonejack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,654
Wind and Fire are my weakest elemental teams, for Water i at least have a +4 Fjorm, though i'd like some additional merges on her.

Earth is simply my strongest one because of FGrima and her near permanent feature on legenday banners ... got a high merged one simply by having her pity break if i wanted another colorless hero. Alsi LIke.

To be honest, i'd rather have teams with +10 Surtrs than with Ninos or Sorens ... current Arena team is one of the few with only 2 DC units, Fjorm via weapon and Titania via skill, but she's not there to beat enemies. So these ranged heroes are actually making me work more for a match than a Surtr would. Highly merged Laegjarn, with Summoner Support and Arena bonus stats makes short work of him, even with Sinmara and his C-skill triggering.
 

Lone_Prodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,428
Guess I'll have to start building Surtr counters for AR this week. Unfortunately I'm short on Laslows for Axebreaker.
 

Westlo

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,659
If IS touch arena... all I want is bonus kills capped to 2 (to strike a balance between the cheerleader era of before compared to the cheerleaders era of now) and defense win/lose replays.

Red dragons and red mages do the job good enough. Got a Celica/Lilina/Snackie/Tharja? What about ATiki?

My A!Tiki made short work of Surtr, great AA counter.... though mine is +5.
 

Bonejack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,654
If IS touch arena... all I want is bonus kills capped to 2 (to strike a balance between the cheerleader era of before compared to the cheerleaders era of now) and defense win/lose replays.



My A!Tiki made short work of Surtr, great AA counter.... though mine is +5.

Outside of score inflation, this weeks Arena is fun for me. Being able to viably field three bonus units made getting the 60 bonus points easy as nothing. ^^
But i agree, i'd like to field one of my +10 units that aren't cheerleaders or bonus units. That shiny new +10 Clair waits for some action ... though, she ploys 2 stats and chills the highest Spd, i guess she could work as a cheerleader too. ^^

Yup, ATiki eats Surtr alive. If he's not rocking DC, mages do so too. Especially Lilina and Celica if her Brazen trigger.
This is one of the units that's more useful in player hands. I did use him in the last AR season, but mostly due to him being hard to take down, locked him up behind two buildings. Couldn't imagine using him as an offensive unit in defense matches though. Lucky enough that i got 4 def wins in Arena this week.
 
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