Fitness |OT| A New Era Begins

Sheepinator · Apr 3, 2024

Jason's Ultimatum said:
I just jumped back to DBs over the past month. I went lightish but think I could've done the same volume. I think the idea of pre exhausting is to get a better mind muscle connection? Be able to focus on the chest activation more? I think it helped. Maybe building up the Work capacity now that I'm back to a Bro-ish split it'll get better.

Another exercise I just went back to is dips. That was my last chest exercise and surprisingly the volume was up to par with my old U/L split.

That makes sense about the activation. Why bro-split though? It's been shown to be sub-optimal.

I love dips. But unfortunately, I had to stop them. A few months ago I increased my dips volume and then a few weeks later I got a flare-up in my shoulder that I could feel while doing flat bench and shoulder press, so I stopped the dips and did some rehab (dead hangs etc., and did supinated grip on the db bench for a while) to resolve it. I'm not saying it will happen to you, but it's something to be wary of. Google "dips shoulder impingement", you'll see what I mean.

My main for tris now is EZ-bar skull-crusher and I immediately super-set that into the same number of reps of close grip press, i.e. zero rest after getting to 1 or 0 RIR on the skulls.

Jason's Ultimatum · Apr 3, 2024

I don't like upper lower, don't like full body or push pull routines. I'll be 42 and been doing this since my early 20s. I've built muscle on all kinds of splits. But I just prefer from an enjoyment chest/tri, back, shoulders/biceps, legs. Whether it's suboptimal or may lose out on a little more growth I don't care. Even Alberto Nunez recently said on Longevity Muscle podcast that it can take three weeks of no lifting to see diminishing results, and frequency isn't that big of deal when volume is equated.

Rikalaus · Apr 3, 2024

Really enjoying Deficit Deadlifts again for some reason

Tuorom · Apr 3, 2024

Jason's Ultimatum said:
I don't like upper lower, don't like full body or push pull routines. I'll be 42 and been doing this since my early 20s. I've built muscle on all kinds of splits. But I just prefer from an enjoyment chest/tri, back, shoulders/biceps, legs. Whether it's suboptimal or may lose out on a little more growth I don't care.

Many could benefit from this simple wisdom

Jason's Ultimatum · Apr 3, 2024

Tuorom said:
Many could benefit from this simple wisdom

Yeah. Way too many people watch all these science based fitness influencers spinning their heads than they do picking a routine and sticking with it. I was guilty of it.

Thordinson · Apr 3, 2024

Jason's Ultimatum said:
I don't like upper lower, don't like full body or push pull routines. I'll be 42 and been doing this since my early 20s. I've built muscle on all kinds of splits. But I just prefer from an enjoyment chest/tri, back, shoulders/biceps, legs. Whether it's suboptimal or may lose out on a little more growth I don't care. Even Alberto Nunez recently said on Longevity Muscle podcast that it can take three weeks of no lifting to see diminishing results, and frequency isn't that big of deal when volume is equated.

This is essentially it. Just pick a routine and stick with it. You can try read about min maxing all day but if you aren't sticking to anything, it doesn't matter.

Sheepinator · Apr 3, 2024

Thordinson said:
This is essentially it. Just pick a routine and stick with it. You can try read about min maxing all day but if you aren't sticking to anything, it doesn't matter.

Sure, consistency is vastly better than not. If someone enjoys something, that's better for them than other options. However, if you had a friend come to you asking about doing routine A or B, and said they're confident they can stick to either, and you knew A > B, would you suggest they toss a coin?

Tuorom · Apr 3, 2024

Sheepinator said:
Sure, consistency is vastly better than not. However, if you had a friend come to you asking about doing routine A or B, and said they're confident they can stick to either, and you knew A > B, would you suggest they toss a coin?

That's a bit vague. A being greater could be for a number of reasons or contexts.

It's not really an issue of that though, it's about the idea of 'optimization'. The wisdom being, "don't let perfection be the enemy of good". I have a lot of issues with this cultural idea of optimization and perfection. It's harmful to speak of and instill in people the idea that if they do not reach a certain level they have failed, and because it's perfection they always will. It's the culture of capitalism leeching into health, as if there should be infinite growth and that all must add to it or be worthless.

If people are working toward a goal, that is good enough. If people are merely moving because they like to, that is also good enough.

PatAndTheCat · Apr 4, 2024

anyone ever have pain in 1 of their shoulders when deadlifting? I will also occasionally get the pain when I do barbell rows. It feels like it is at the top of the shoulder close to the head. I rock climb in addition to lifting. I've experienced this pain before but can't remember the rehab exercises I did to fix it.

Thordinson · Apr 4, 2024

Sheepinator said:
Sure, consistency is vastly better than not. If someone enjoys something, that's better for them than other options. However, if you had a friend come to you asking about doing routine A or B, and said they're confident they can stick to either, and you knew A > B, would you suggest they toss a coin?

I'd suggest they try both and go from there.

But, in my experience, that's not reality. Folks often get obsessed over trying to find the optimal path and they never stick to anything. I'd rather folks do what they enjoy and will stick to. If they can consistently lift weights once a week, say, but will quit if it's more than that then I'd rather them lift weights once a week because that's much better than not doing it at all.

Tuorom said:
That's a bit vague. A being greater could be for a number of reasons or contexts.

It's not really an issue of that though, it's about the idea of 'optimization'. The wisdom being, "don't let perfection be the enemy of good". I have a lot of issues with this cultural idea of optimization and perfection. It's harmful to speak of and instill in people the idea that if they do not reach a certain level they have failed, and because it's perfection they always will. It's the culture of capitalism leeching into health, as if there should be infinite growth and that all must add to it or be worthless.

If people are working toward a goal, that is good enough. If people are merely moving because they like to, that is also good enough.

This.

We need folks to take better care of their physical health and I'd rather them do something than nothing.

But if optimization is what motivates someone, go for it. Whatever helps folks stay motivated.

Sheepinator · Apr 4, 2024

PatAndTheCat said:
anyone ever have pain in 1 of their shoulders when deadlifting? I will also occasionally get the pain when I do barbell rows. It feels like it is at the top of the shoulder close to the head. I rock climb in addition to lifting. I've experienced this pain before but can't remember the rehab exercises I did to fix it.

I'm not familiar with that. However, from when I recently had a shoulder impingement, different to yours, and did some research, dead hangs were a sold general rehab suggestion and imo they worked for me.

thedracocat · Apr 4, 2024

Thordinson said:
This is essentially it. Just pick a routine and stick with it. You can try read about min maxing all day but if you aren't sticking to anything, it doesn't matter.

This is a realization I came to a few days ago-- you gotta stick with something.

I keep seeing "motivational" videos on social media showing someone large lose weight or gain muscle or whatever. You see those videos and think "if they can do it, why not me" and then start your personal journey and, in some cases, become frustrated because you don't think changes are happening fast enough, if at all.

What you have to realize is that the video happened over the span of a year, or sometimes longer. Because the video is 15 or 30 seconds long, that compression of time kinda messes with your head. It really comes down to consistency and time. Sure, you also need to develop some kind of a program, but don't become disillusioned because results aren't where you think they should be after a few weeks or months. Just need to keep going.

Sheepinator · Apr 4, 2024

Thordinson said:
I'd suggest they try both and go from there.

But, in my experience, that's not reality. Folks often get obsessed over trying to find the optimal path and they never stick to anything. I'd rather folks do what they enjoy and will stick to. If they can consistently lift weights once a week, say, but will quit if it's more than that then I'd rather them lift weights once a week because that's much better than not doing it at all.

They can't do both at the same time, and you'd rather they not hop around. So if they like the first program they try, then as you say, they should stick with that. If you know that out of two options, one is less optimal than the other, which one would you recommend your friend tries first?

Thordinson · Apr 4, 2024

Sheepinator said:
They can't do both at the same time, and you'd rather they not hop around. So if they like the first program they try, then as you say, they should stick with that. If you know that out of two options, one is less optimal than the other, which one would you recommend your friend tries first?

Not both at the same time. Try one then the other. I'd rather they try experimenting to see what works for them.

I would let them know which is considered more optimal but I'd still recommend they try both then decide.

If they come back to me liking A, great. If the come back liking B instead, great.

thedracocat said:
This is a realization I came to a few days ago-- you gotta stick with something.

I keep seeing "motivational" videos on social media showing someone large lose weight or gain muscle or whatever. You see those videos and think "if they can do it, why not me" and then start your personal journey and, in some cases, become frustrated because you don't think changes are happening fast enough, if at all.

What you have to realize is that the video happened over the span of a year, or sometimes longer. Because the video is 15 or 30 seconds long, that compression of time kinda messes with your head. It really comes down to consistency and time. Sure, you also need to develop some kind of a program, but don't become disillusioned because results aren't where you think they should be after a few weeks or months. Just need to keep going.

Exactly.

The thing is anyone can do it. They just have to be consistent and prepared to wait a while before the results really show. But influencers and such don't often explain these things.

LetsEatSnacks · Apr 4, 2024

Adding my 2 cents to this thread. I'm 41 now and I've battled with roller coaster weight my entire life but was very chubby from about age 8 to 20. Around 20, I kind of emaciated myself to finally lose weight and I went from about 205 down to 145 at my lowest (I'm 5'10). It was done in all the wrong ways and I was left with a lot of hanging skin/ looked terrible even though I was thin. This left me in a really weird mindset for years because people thought I looked great when I was wearing clothes but it was a different story when I would take them off. Needless to say, I had to gain some weight back and I tried to do it the right way but I definitely found myself fighting genetic factors and having to accept that no matter what I did, there's some parts of my body that will always be troublesome.

Anyhow, this is all to say that now that I am older, I find it even more difficult to keep things under control. In my home I have an elliptical machine, a weight bench, and some free weights of various sizes (5 to 35 lbs). I try to work out every other day but I feel like I've hit a wall in what exercises I can do with the equipment I have. Moreover, I've tried calorie deficit and protein increases but it just seems like nothing is working anymore, even after 4 or 5 months of pretty good discipline. I'm about 175lbs now and I still very much have a "skinnyfat" look to my body with man boobs and big hips but not much of a stomach ( I have that "lovely" pear shaped body).

I'm just curious if anyone else has been in this kind of rut and what worked to bounce them out of it.

Jason's Ultimatum · Apr 4, 2024

I look back at Jeff Nippards old videos from like 2016 and he was huge proponent of a bro-ish split. Even went as far as saying do what you enjoyed. Then 2020 happened with that full body 5x a week with Eric Helms and he changed his tune, because he saw money to be made with his higher frequency fad.

Mike Isratael and RP are roided goons who preach higher frequency training, yet all they have on their shows are PED users. I think they would benefit highly from using naturals to train. Hell even Mike has said several times bro splits still work.

I really like YouTubers like Massive Iron.

Sheepinator · Apr 4, 2024

Jason's Ultimatum said:
I look back at Jeff Nippards old videos from like 2016 and he was huge proponent of a bro-ish split. Even went as far as saying do what you enjoyed. Then 2020 happened with that full body 5x a week with Eric Helms and he changed his tune, because he saw money to be made with his higher frequency fad.

Mike Isratael and RP are roided goons who preach higher frequency training, yet all they have on their shows are PED users. I think they would benefit highly from using naturals to train. Hell even Mike has said several times bro splits still work.

I really like YouTubers like Massive Iron.

Nobody is saying bro splits don't work. It's that they're less optimal than training parts with more frequency. Yes, opinions morphed on this over the years as more research came in.

e.g. Dr. Mike in the first ten seconds here.

3 Secrets To Making A Perfect Training Split

The ALL NEW RP Hypertrophy App: https://rp.app/hypertrophy/code/RP_YOUTUBE?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=RP_YTTEAM FULL ROM FORUM- ...

www.youtube.com

and Dr. Mike and Nippard here.

OVERRATED: The Worst Fitness Advice Ever

In this video, I’m ranking 19 fitness topics as either overrated or underrated. The topics are split up into three categories: training, nutrition, and hot f...

www.youtube.com

I really don't understand the pushback on this here. I mean the time and effort it takes to look into the merits of say bro split vs ULUL or PPL or whatever, compared to actually doing the program for multiple hours each week for months, is negligible. But absolutely, if whatever approach is preferable to you for adherence or whatever, then it's better for you. But let's not pretend that changes the facts.

jetscanfly · Apr 4, 2024

Sheepinator said:
Nobody is saying bro splits don't work. It's that they're less optimal than training parts with more frequency. Yes, opinions morphed on this over the years as more research came in.

e.g. Dr. Mike in the first ten seconds here.

3 Secrets To Making A Perfect Training Split

The ALL NEW RP Hypertrophy App: https://rp.app/hypertrophy/code/RP_YOUTUBE?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=RP_YTTEAM FULL ROM FORUM- ...

www.youtube.com

and Dr. Mike and Nippard here.

OVERRATED: The Worst Fitness Advice Ever

In this video, I’m ranking 19 fitness topics as either overrated or underrated. The topics are split up into three categories: training, nutrition, and hot f...

www.youtube.com

I really don't understand the pushback on this here. I mean the time and effort it takes to look into the merits of say bro split vs ULUL or PPL or whatever, compared to actually doing the program for multiple hours each week for months, is negligible. But absolutely, if whatever approach is preferable to you for adherence or whatever, then it's better for you. But let's not pretend that changes the facts.

I don't really understand the confusion here, everyone is saying the same thing. They know there are "optimal" routines and min/max possibilities. If I understand correctly, they're just saying that the best routine is the one that actually makes you go. A completely optimized routine has no effect if you don't want to do it, but a suboptimal one will if you do want to do it. I feel like that's not exactly a contentious comment.

Frankly, I tend to agree with starting at the gym. Just do whatever you feel like and sounds fun. Eventually you'll see exercises and want to try them or get good at them and people will naturally get more curious.

Sheepinator · Apr 4, 2024

LetsEatSnacks said:
Adding my 2 cents to this thread. I'm 41 now and I've battled with roller coaster weight my entire life but was very chubby from about age 8 to 20. Around 20, I kind of emaciated myself to finally lose weight and I went from about 205 down to 145 at my lowest (I'm 5'10). It was done in all the wrong ways and I was left with a lot of hanging skin/ looked terrible even though I was thin. This left me in a really weird mindset for years because people thought I looked great when I was wearing clothes but it was a different story when I would take them off. Needless to say, I had to gain some weight back and I tried to do it the right way but I definitely found myself fighting genetic factors and having to accept that no matter what I did, there's some parts of my body that will always be troublesome.

Anyhow, this is all to say that now that I am older, I find it even more difficult to keep things under control. In my home I have an elliptical machine, a weight bench, and some free weights of various sizes (5 to 35 lbs). I try to work out every other day but I feel like I've hit a wall in what exercises I can do with the equipment I have. Moreover, I've tried calorie deficit and protein increases but it just seems like nothing is working anymore, even after 4 or 5 months of pretty good discipline. I'm about 175lbs now and I still very much have a "skinnyfat" look to my body with man boobs and big hips but not much of a stomach ( I have that "lovely" pear shaped body).

I'm just curious if anyone else has been in this kind of rut and what worked to bounce them out of it.

I'd recommend more zone 2 cardio. Walking more. The elliptical should be good too, but I mean purposeful non-workout time, finding an excuse for more walking or hiking. If you have a dog, take longer walks. If you have calls to make or a podcast to listen to, multi-task that with walking rather than just sitting for that time.

As for the weights, yeah 35 pounds is surely not enough for you for back and chest work. You can do legs with that, like Bulgarian split squats, lunges, single leg RDL's, etc. You could buy another set of heavier db's, but the expense adds up quickly if you need another set above that, plus you need more space. They make some really good adjustable db sets. Check the garagegymreviews site and YT, they've reviewed most or all of them. Maybe you can get lucky getting a used pair locally for much cheaper.

Any interest in getting a barbell and plates, maybe also a power rack? If you do, then instead of adjustable db's, you could get a pair of loadable db's like Titan sells, (20", not the short version), and get a bunch of 10's and 5's plates, which you could then also use with your barbell too.

Godfather · Apr 9, 2024

I was just coming in here to ask about home gym stuff, so that garage gym reviews info will be helpful. Overall, can you find decent deals on Amazon?

I'm mostly tired of competing for space in the few squat racks my nearby gym has, so I was thinking about some kind of power rack and bench, and maybe something for cardio like a bike, treadmill, or elliptical.

KillerBEA · Apr 9, 2024

Finished 3rd of 3 at my competition, I showed up on the events I thought I would. Only being truly disappointed on the Farmer's Hold where I got 11 seconds less than my training time. Sandbag load and push went really well until the vehicle braked in the dip in the concrete. Just kind of the nature of competing in a parking lot. That kind of stuff happens.

Sheepinator · Apr 9, 2024

Godfather said:
I was just coming in here to ask about home gym stuff, so that garage gym reviews info will be helpful. Overall, can you find decent deals on Amazon?

I'm mostly tired of competing for space in the few squat racks my nearby gym has, so I was thinking about some kind of power rack and bench, and maybe something for cardio like a bike, treadmill, or elliptical.

Rep Fitness makes fantastic gear, generally free shipping I think, and they're usually cheaper at their own site than Amazon. It's probably worth looking at Titan's site too, they're a solid brand and generally cheaper than the likes of Rogue which is premium pricing. Amazon has a lot of Chinese knockoffs I think, and while they might well work fine, I would certainly check the reviews carefully.

Re the rack, be sure to consider how expandable it may be. You can get all sorts of attachments for safeties, storage assistance, belt squat, etc.

How about a rower? It's not quite a full body workout, being upper pull and lower push, but it's still a great cardio and resistance workout. The Concept D is the GOAT, but I believe there are good water options too. I love having a recumbent bike, very convenient with the TV and Roku there, but never again with a treadmill. We started having maintenance issues with the belt slipping, generally the machine was noisy and bulky, and in the end we couldn't even give it away. Never again.

I recommend the Titan loadable db's, 20". I've been using these for years. The upside is you're buying plates anyway for your barbell, so you can use the 10's and 5's on the db and the barbell, which is cheaper than double dipping on weight purchases with fixed db's or adjustable db's. The adjustables are far more convenient though.

The garagegymreviews site and YT is a great resource. Almost every adjustable db reviewed, rowers, racks etc. reviewed.

MrNewVegas · Apr 9, 2024

Highly recommend powerblocks for any home gym. I have the 90lb set and they're amazing.

Godfather · Apr 9, 2024

I don't know why but i didn't expect the rowers to be more expensive than power racks.

PatAndTheCat · Apr 10, 2024

https://imgur.com/a/A7jckZl

Can anyone tell me what this equipment is used for? I've seen someone put their feet in the middle grooves with their body in plank position and bring it to their stomach, almost like some sort of crunch. I've also seen people do roll outs on it. Anyone know what this is called/used for?

Janus · Apr 10, 2024

PatAndTheCat said:
https://imgur.com/a/A7jckZl

Can anyone tell me what this equipment is used for? I've seen someone put their feet in the middle grooves with their body in plank position and bring it to their stomach, almost like some sort of crunch. I've also seen people do roll outs on it. Anyone know what this is called/used for?

Looks like a small Glute Ham Glider. Can be used for hamstring slides/sliding leg curls and ab rollouts. Titan Fitness makes a bigger one, like here:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKLlAKyVyRg and shows how to use it.

GrimGrinningGuy · Apr 16, 2024

Getting a bit tired of rowing for my cardio. Any air bike recommendations that don't break the bank? The rogue looks great but almost 900

Lightjolly · Apr 19, 2024

I think I'm an 8 right now, want to work towards a 7, how would I go about that?

ArkhamFantasy · Apr 19, 2024

Lightjolly said:
I think I'm an 8 right now, want to work towards a 7, how would I go about that?

You need to go into a caloric deficit of about 250-500 calories until you start getting to a body fat % that you're happy with, eat about 1.6 grams per KG of body weight of protein, follow a bodybuilding program and stick with it.

That's a pretty significant body recomposition so be realistic about your goals, the picture you used is portraying an extremely jacked physique that you only see with non-drug tested athletes, normal humans can be that lean but we don't naturally carry that much muscle mass even with decades of training.

Sheepinator · Apr 19, 2024

Lightjolly said:
I think I'm an 8 right now, want to work towards a 7, how would I go about that?

+1 to the earlier advice. At least 500 calorie daily deficit, lifting with progressive overload at least 3x per week (if you're new, look at a starting program like Strong Lifts), and protein at least 0.7g/lb. Also move more in general to help get that deficit, ideally zone 2 stuff like walking more steps e.g.

That's an extremely unrealistic image to use. Instead, use something like this:

pioneer · Apr 23, 2024

Am I losing some of my lifting gains by doing cardio afterwards? To be specific, I do an hour+ of dumbbell and kettlebell training then 45 minutes on a stationary bike at high resistance. I've tried looking this up myself but have found conflicting answers - some say it's beneficial, some say to do them on separate days, some recommend 15min cardio at most after lifting… so I'm lost.

Sheepinator · Apr 23, 2024

pioneer said:
Am I losing some of my lifting gains by doing cardio afterwards? To be specific, I do an hour+ of dumbbell and kettlebell training then 45 minutes on a stationary bike at high resistance. I've tried looking this up myself but have found conflicting answers - some say it's beneficial, some say to do them on separate days, some recommend 15min cardio at most after lifting… so I'm lost.

You're fine. The reason people recommend separating them is primarily to ensure your lifting is done while you're fully energized, which you are doing, so that's good. I would question 45 mins biking at high resistance after leg day lifting, but other than that, carry on. Also, the anabolic window for eating after lifting is a myth so you don't need to worry about that. Get your protein and carbs in within a few hours before or after lifting and you're covered.

pioneer · Apr 23, 2024

Sheepinator said:
You're fine. The reason people recommend separating them is primarily to ensure your lifting is done while you're fully energized, which you are doing, so that's good. I would question 45 mins biking at high resistance after leg day lifting, but other than that, carry on. Also, the anabolic window for eating after lifting is a myth so you don't need to worry about that. Get your protein and carbs in within a few hours before or after lifting and you're covered.

That's helpful, thanks 🙏

Tuorom · Apr 23, 2024

pioneer said:
Am I losing some of my lifting gains by doing cardio afterwards? To be specific, I do an hour+ of dumbbell and kettlebell training then 45 minutes on a stationary bike at high resistance. I've tried looking this up myself but have found conflicting answers - some say it's beneficial, some say to do them on separate days, some recommend 15min cardio at most after lifting… so I'm lost.

Check out Andy Galpin, he's got a ton of information up on youtube and is one of the leading researchers in the field iirc. He's been on a bunch of podcasts and just drops like 2hrs of gold.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnOZfJvQWIg

Dave. · Apr 23, 2024

GrimGrinningGuy said:
Getting a bit tired of rowing for my cardio. Any air bike recommendations that don't break the bank? The rogue looks great but almost 900

I realize this won't help but since you've not had any other responses, I can confirm the Rogue is great and still feels like money well spent.

GrimGrinningGuy · Apr 23, 2024

Dave. said:
I realize this won't help but since you've not had any other responses, I can confirm the Rogue is great and still feels like money well spent.

Thanks. Wish it was a bit cheaper. Only one used one by me too and it's almost as much as brand new. Dang it!

KennyLinder · Apr 23, 2024

5 months in to regular (4 days per week) strength training and I am definitely seeing some really good gains and improvements.

- Shoulders and arms specifically are starting to tone out nicely
- I can lift way heavier than when I started in November
- Can almost fit into a small sized t-shirt hoodie at places like Nike (UK sizing if it's different!). Belt too loose now etc

I've dropped one of my HIIT classes so now I do just 1 per week, along with Spin, and aim for 10-13k steps a day.

I am down to 12.4 stone, really with "just" upper body fat to burn. Obviously that's the most stubborn which is a right pain in the ass!

I am trying to figure how my deficit and how far below I should be going, with aim to burn fat but build muscle. It's really hard to get right, but maybe I am doing OK as I've stayed the same weight on the scales for a couple of months now (but have noticeable arm muscles, slimmer looking etc). I just want that fucking upper body fat to go.

Is there considered 'best' calorie calculator to use? Some don't really make it clear what my maintenance calories are, and how much I should drop by. AND, if say my maintenance is 2500, so say deficit is 2200. If I do 500 calorie workout, is my deficit now 2700? I've not been doing it this way, but there seems to be conflicting info on this.

Sheepinator · Apr 23, 2024

KennyLinder said:
5 months in to regular (4 days per week) strength training and I am definitely seeing some really good gains and improvements.

- Shoulders and arms specifically are starting to tone out nicely
- I can lift way heavier than when I started in November
- Can almost fit into a small sized t-shirt hoodie at places like Nike (UK sizing if it's different!). Belt too loose now etc

I've dropped one of my HIIT classes so now I do just 1 per week, along with Spin, and aim for 10-13k steps a day.

I am down to 12.4 stone, really with "just" upper body fat to burn. Obviously that's the most stubborn which is a right pain in the ass!

I am trying to figure how my deficit and how far below I should be going, with aim to burn fat but build muscle. It's really hard to get right, but maybe I am doing OK as I've stayed the same for a couple of months now. I just want that fucking upper body fat to go.

Is there considered 'best' calorie calculator to use? Some don't really make it clear what my maintenance calories are, and how much I should drop by. AND, if say my maintenance is 2500, so say deficit is 2200. If I do 500 calorie workout, is my deficit now 2700? I've not been doing it this way, but there seems to be conflicting info on this.

Calculators are pointless if you've been tracking your weight and know what you've been consuming re calories. That tells you what your TDEE is. You say you've stayed the same weight for two months, so there it is. Whatever you're consuming lately on average, is your maintenance level. If you average 2500 per day in, and your weight isn't changing, that's your maintenance.

If you do a 500 calorie workout, no you cannot assume your CI can go up by the same. For one thing, how accurate is that CO estimate? They can often be over-estimated. More importantly, the more intense the exercise was the more you rest after, which lowers your NEAT for hours after. The net effect is perhaps like burning half as many calories as you thought. Also, lifting doesn't burn many calories. You might be burning an additional 200-250 in an hour compared to being idle, and see above re reduced NEAT after.

You can recomp from here, i.e. continue eating at maintenance, keep your weight constant, and gradually build more muscle while losing fat. When your fat level is where you're comfortable, start eating a little more so you can build more muscle while retaining that bf %.

KennyLinder · Apr 23, 2024

Sheepinator said:
Calculators are pointless if you've been tracking your weight and know what you've been consuming re calories. That tells you what your TDEE is. You say you've stayed the same weight for two months, so there it is. Whatever you're consuming lately on average, is your maintenance level. If you average 2500 per day in, and your weight isn't changing, that's your maintenance.

If you do a 500 calorie workout, no you cannot assume your CI can go up by the same. For one thing, how accurate is that CO estimate? They can often be over-estimated. More importantly, the more intense the exercise was the more you rest after, which lowers your NEAT for hours after. The net effect is perhaps like burning half as many calories as you thought. Also, lifting doesn't burn many calories. You might be burning an additional 200-250 in an hour compared to being idle, and see above re reduced NEAT after.

You can recomp from here, i.e. continue eating at maintenance, keep your weight constant, and gradually build more muscle while losing fat. When your fat level is where you're comfortable, start eating a little more so you can build more muscle while retaining that bf %.

Great explanation, thanks! :)
It all does seem to be working right now, so I'll stick at what I am doing.

Also, trying to consume enough protein is pretty challenging, but protein bars and whey along with actual food does really help.

One thing most YT videos never mentions is time it will take. By this rate, I reckon it will 12 months before I've shifted the far, and longer obvs for the muscle. It definitely takes a little longer as I am older at nearly 46 too.

Sheepinator · Apr 23, 2024

KennyLinder said:
Great explanation, thanks! :)
It all does seem to be working right now, so I'll stick at what I am doing.

Also, trying to consume enough protein is pretty challenging, but protein bars and whey along with actual food does really help.

One thing most YT videos never mentions is time it will take. By this rate, I reckon it will 12 months before I've shifted the far, and longer obvs for the muscle. It definitely takes a little longer as I am older at nearly 46 too.

This is a good page, but again, your own data is going to be more accurate than any calculator estimate.

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Keep up the good work. Consistency FTW. You didn't get to your starting point in one year.

Rikalaus · Apr 24, 2024

Got such a good groove going on with Bench and Deadlifting at the minute, set a few rep PR's recently and everything is trending really well leading up to my testing day in 6 weeks or so

KillerBEA · Apr 27, 2024

Sandbag carries coming along excellently. 4 sets of 200lb bag for 100ft superset with sets of 20 assisted GHRs.

Knees are becoming exponentially healthier after starting to train deep knee flexion.. Isometrics holding that position for time, and training 'heavy' super deep squats. Going to fiddle with this idea with other body parts over time.

Sec0nd · Apr 27, 2024

I've been seeing a lot of gains lately. Some clothing that used to be a perfect fit is getting tight, and getting lots of comments of friends that they see noticeable differences.

The thing is... I'm not really into that, lol. I mean, it's legitimately really fun to see these gains. But I'm not super into that buff aesthetic. Especially since I ended up at a bar with a girl and she said she felt bad for offering me a beer because she thought I was hyper focused on being fit, apparently because of how I look, that I only ate some nuts and fruits when she was around and because I told her I'm a vegetarian. I mean... I guess it's true on some level, lol. But it's just not me and not the vibe I'm going for.

Anyway, I'm fine with gaining a little bit more mass but not a whole ton more tbh. But I really enjoy working out a lot and I just like lifting heavy stuff, lol. So what would be an interesting to explore? I'm guessing just to eventually go lower weight and more reps? Or should I explore something like calisthenics a bit more? Those guys aren't usually super wide, but they are incredibly strong.

ArkhamFantasy · Apr 27, 2024

Sec0nd said:
I've been seeing a lot of gains lately. Some clothing that used to be a perfect fit is getting tight, and getting lots of comments of friends that they see noticeable differences.

The thing is... I'm not really into that, lol. I mean, it's legitimately really fun to see these gains. But I'm not super into that buff aesthetic. Especially since I ended up at a bar with a girl and she said she felt bad for offering me a beer because she thought I was hyper focused on being fit, apparently because of how I look, that I only ate some nuts and fruits when she was around and because I told her I'm a vegetarian. I mean... I guess it's true on some level, lol. But it's just not me and not the vibe I'm going for.

Anyway, I'm fine with gaining a little bit more mass but not a whole ton more tbh. But I really enjoy working out a lot and I just like lifting heavy stuff, lol. So what would be an interesting to explore? I'm guessing just to eventually go lower weight and more reps? Or should I explore something like calisthenics a bit more? Those guys aren't usually super wide, but they are incredibly strong.

I guess you could find a really low rep powerlifting program that focuses on 1-3 reps.

BassForever · Apr 27, 2024

Small progress update, I finally dropped below 260 on my scale. It's funny even though I'm still technically obese, I feel far better than when I last weight 180 using a fad diet to cut a lot of weight quickly. I have so much more energy and I feel a lot better about myself.

Sheepinator · Apr 27, 2024

Sec0nd said:
I've been seeing a lot of gains lately. Some clothing that used to be a perfect fit is getting tight, and getting lots of comments of friends that they see noticeable differences.

The thing is... I'm not really into that, lol. I mean, it's legitimately really fun to see these gains. But I'm not super into that buff aesthetic. Especially since I ended up at a bar with a girl and she said she felt bad for offering me a beer because she thought I was hyper focused on being fit, apparently because of how I look, that I only ate some nuts and fruits when she was around and because I told her I'm a vegetarian. I mean... I guess it's true on some level, lol. But it's just not me and not the vibe I'm going for.

Anyway, I'm fine with gaining a little bit more mass but not a whole ton more tbh. But I really enjoy working out a lot and I just like lifting heavy stuff, lol. So what would be an interesting to explore? I'm guessing just to eventually go lower weight and more reps? Or should I explore something like calisthenics a bit more? Those guys aren't usually super wide, but they are incredibly strong.

It's a good thing to have interests, so long as you aren't obsessive.

Maintenance is a lot lot easier than growth. You only need a few working sets per week to keep your strength and muscle, so maybe about 1/3rd normal volume.

Since you like lifting, maybe consider focusing on something that's more strength based, which will likely produce slower mass gain. So powerlifting, Olympic lifting or strongman. And you can enter competitions with those too.

You could also reduce calories slightly, and keep an eye on the scale and your waist size to adjust as needed.

Saucycarpdog · Monday at 1:57 PM

Are gluten free foods actually better for you? I see so many health nuts act like you should always choose gluten free food over the alternative.

jetscanfly · Monday at 3:47 PM

Saucycarpdog said:
Are gluten free foods actually better for you? I see so many health nuts act like you should always choose gluten free food over the alternative.

Absolutely no.

Keep in mind that some processed gluten-free foods contain high amounts of unhealthy ingredients such as sodium, sugar and fat. Consuming these foods can lead to weight gain, blood sugar swings, high blood pressure and other problems. So, a gluten-free label doesn't necessarily make a food healthy.

They're just a different food that can be good or bad.

ArkhamFantasy · Monday at 5:09 PM

Saucycarpdog said:
Are gluten free foods actually better for you? I see so many health nuts act like you should always choose gluten free food over the alternative.

It's not really different from any other food allergy. If you're allergic to peanuts you should avoid peanuts, if you're allergic to gluten you should avoid gluten.

If not then you dont have to worry about it.

Saucycarpdog · Monday at 7:10 PM

jetscanfly said:
Absolutely no.

They're just a different food that can be good or bad.

ArkhamFantasy said:
It's not really different from any other food allergy. If you're allergic to peanuts you should avoid peanuts, if you're allergic to gluten you should avoid gluten.

If not then you dont have to worry about it.

Thanks 👍

So I guess people try to use gluten free foods as way to avoid carbs but end up with lots of sugar and sodium.

Probably easier to just keep your carbs in check.

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