Former Canadian diplomat detained in China, possibly related to Meng Wanzhou (Huawei) detention in Canada

Maneil99 · Dec 11, 2018

Pet said:
I'm still surprised that the US is allowed to arrest a Chinese citizen for breaking US sanctions. I understand the concept of holding an American company and the American subsidiary to laws, but o.o.

If a US citizen was in Japan, and was arrested by the Japanese government for extradition to China because China had a sanction against Vietnam and the US citizen lied to China to do business with Vietnam... I'd consider that overreach by China.

If she tries to escape to China, I wonder what will happen.

If you buy things from a country you have to obey the law on where those things you bought can be sold. It would be no different if they sold US made components for telecommunications to North Korea. It's npt overreach really. The extradition part has been normal for decades.

If she escapes to China it would mean huge economic fallout and damage to China if they didn't send her back. China would rather have the USA drop charged then have her escape illegally

maxglute · Dec 11, 2018

Pet said:
If she tries to escape to China, I wonder what will happen.

Hopefully she doesn't. I doubt the Chinese government wants her to escape to mitigate backlash. She's probably going to functionally "retire" and live a comfy life in Canada for the next few years while rendition process draws out in appeals. Either this thing will quietly be swept under the rug after favorable trade deals and she goes free or the Chinese is going to sneak her out if there's sign that Trump wants to expedite her expedition for political points in the upcoming election.

Hiphopopotamus · Dec 11, 2018

KHarvey16 said:
They can't control his twitter but they can control whether they carry out any hypothetical order from him.

If/ when they balk and Trump pardons her for "the good of the nation" they can throw that on the pile of felonies Trump has under his belt

Pet · Dec 11, 2018

entrydenied said:
If that hypothetical US citizen broke the sanction while being in China and working in China then I would say that it's not overreach. Since it's a China law and the person broke it while they're in China or working for subsidiaries in China.

Oh, did she work in the US? From all the articles I read about her, she wasn't in the US working here. It just said she helped her Chinese company dodge US sanctions on Iran, lied to banks, etc.

Maneil99 said:
If you buy things from a country you have to obey the law on where those things you bought can be sold. It would be no different if they sold US made components for telecommunications to North Korea. It's npt overreach really. The extradition part has been normal for decades.

If she escapes to China it would mean huge economic fallout and damage to China if they didn't send her back. China would rather have the USA drop charged then have her escape illegally

I didn't know about the bolded. So if China, the country, told Canadian companies that the goods they buy from the factories can't be sold to the US for the border wall, that'd be legal? China could legally arrest and try Canadian citizens who had a layover in Japan?

I mean, I understand if the US government put sanctions on Huawei the company now, and banned her personally from ever traveling to the US, but to actually try and arrest and put on trial a nonUS citizen for something like selling stuff to another country is still baffling for me, especially when there doesn't appear to be a good reason to have those first sanctions anyway.

Extradition as a tradition makes sense and I'm not confused by that. I hope Canada continues to cooperate with the US regarding any extradition requests we make.

I would have expected more that the US demand China turn her over (never going to happen), but I'd expect that to be the case in any situation (if China demanded the US turn over US citizens.)

maxglute said:
Hopefully she doesn't. I doubt the Chinese government wants her to escape to mitigate backlash. She's probably going to functionally "retire" and live a comfy life in Canada for the next few years while rendition process draws out in appeals. Either this thing will quietly be swept under the rug after favorable trade deals and she goes free or the Chinese is going to sneak her out if there's sign that Trump wants to expedite her expedition for political points in the upcoming election.

Rich people really get to play by different rules :/

Maneil99 · Dec 11, 2018

Pet said:
Oh, did she work in the US? From all the articles I read about her, she wasn't in the US working here. It just said she helped her Chinese company dodge US sanctions on Iran, lied to banks, etc.

I didn't know about the bolded. So if China, the country, told Canadian companies that the goods they buy from the factories can't be sold to the US for the border wall, that'd be legal? China could legally arrest and try Canadian citizens who had a layover in Japan?

I mean, I understand if the US government put sanctions on Huawei the company now, and banned her personally from ever traveling to the US, but to actually try and arrest and put on trial a nonUS citizen for something like selling stuff to another country is still baffling for me, especially when there doesn't appear to be a good reason to have those first sanctions anyway.

Extradition as a tradition makes sense and I'm not confused by that. I hope Canada continues to cooperate with the US regarding any extradition requests we make.

I would have expected more that the US demand China turn her over (never going to happen), but I'd expect that to be the case in any situation (if China demanded the US turn over US citizens.)

Rich people really get to play by different rules :/

If China had a sanction against the US yes. Companies wouldn't be able to buy Chinese goods to sell in the Us. It's pretty simple. Also I believe Huawei has to do due diligence to ensure that they do not sell any US bought products to anyone that is selling that product to Iran.

So Huawei could also be on the hook if they sold Intel/Texas Component materials and sold them to a company that sells goods made with those materials to Iran. That's if the US can prove Huawei knew that 3rd party they were selling to intended or had sold goods to Iran

Also the sanctions weren't Trumps doing. It was under Obama the UN (including China) agreed on the sanctions.

Muppet of a Man · Dec 11, 2018

Tempy said:
China govt apologists in 3.. 2... 1...

This. Fuck the Chinese government. Just as shitty as Russian and Saudi governments.

Pet · Dec 11, 2018

Maneil99 said:
If China had a sanction against the US yes. Companies wouldn't be able to buy Chinese goods to sell in the Us. It's pretty simple. Also I believe Huawei has to do due diligence to ensure that they do not sell any US bought products to anyone that is selling that product to Iran.

So Huawei could also be on the hook if they sold Intel/Texas Component materials and sold them to a company that sells goods made with those materials to Iran. That's if the US can prove Huawei knew that 3rd party they were selling to intended or had sold goods to Iran

Also the sanctions weren't Trumps doing. It was under Obama the UN (including China) agreed on the sanctions.

I never brought up Trump so that's a weird thing to throw in there.

And yeah, I find it crazy that a country can arrest the citizen of another country for breaking sanctions set by the first country.

I sure as hell wouldn't be happy if I got nabbed by the Russian government while traveling to Austria because my company provided aid to Crimea.

KHarvey16 · Dec 11, 2018

Pet said:
I never brought up Trump so that's a weird thing to throw in there.

And yeah, I find it crazy that a country can arrest the citizen of another country for breaking sanctions set by the first country.

I sure as hell wouldn't be happy if I got nabbed by the Russian government while traveling to Austria because my company provided aid to Crimea.

What if you ran a company in Russia, then personally committed fraud to secure funding to buy computers to then sell to a country Russia doesn't allow you to sell technology to?

SRG01 · Dec 11, 2018

Pet said:
I never brought up Trump so that's a weird thing to throw in there.

And yeah, I find it crazy that a country can arrest the citizen of another country for breaking sanctions set by the first country.

I sure as hell wouldn't be happy if I got nabbed by the Russian government while traveling to Austria because my company provided aid to Crimea.

If they had an extradition treaty and the crime was recognized, sure. But it would be Austrian police and courts, and you'd have the legal right to go through extradition hearings and such in Austria, not in Russia.

Like, extradition is a hugely complicated thing to go through. Meng may be on bail right now, but this extradition case may go on for years unless the US drops the case... which is unlikely because they have precedent with ZTE.

Pet · Dec 11, 2018

SRG01 said:
If they had an extradition treaty and the crime was recognized, sure. But it would be Austrian police and courts, and you'd have the legal right to go through extradition hearings and such in Austria, not in Russia.

Like, extradition is a hugely complicated thing to go through. Meng may be on bail right now, but this extradition case may go on for years unless the US drops the case... which is unlikely because they have precedent with ZTE.

Yeah the more I try to read about it, the more I realize how out of my depth I am :).

Guess we'll just have to see what happens and if the Chinese government is successful in their attempts to pressure the Canadian government into dropping this.

Also is the US going to put sanctions on Huawei the company now?

maxglute · Dec 12, 2018

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump said on Tuesday he would intervene with the U.S. Justice Department in the case against a Chinese telecommunications executive if it would help secure a trade deal with Beijing.

Another foot in mouth by Trump. For people who still hold on to the naive notion that Meng's arrest wasn't politically motivated. Trump basically confirmed this is now a hostage situation for better trade outcomes. I can't imagine Meng being extradited when there's clear political motivation. Looks like Michael Kovrig got sacrificed for nothing.

So yeah, America is taking political hostages now.

SRG01 · Dec 12, 2018

Pet said:
Yeah the more I try to read about it, the more I realize how out of my depth I am :).

Guess we'll just have to see what happens and if the Chinese government is successful in their attempts to pressure the Canadian government into dropping this.

Also is the US going to put sanctions on Huawei the company now?

Well...

maxglute said:
Another foot in mouth by Trump. For people who still hold on to the naive notion that Meng's arrest wasn't politically motivated. Trump basically confirmed this is now a hostage situation for better trade outcomes. I can't imagine Meng being extradited when there's clear political motivation. Looks like Michael Kovrig got sacrificed for nothing.

So yeah, America is taking political hostages now.

... it's not so much that they're going to sanction Huawei, but most people's suspicions from the beginning were confirmed: that Trump is going to use this situation as leverage for the trade talks.

Trump will definitely direct the DOJ (?) drop the charges in exchange for concessions. Or he'll just do it for "free", like he did with ZTE.

Neo C. · Dec 12, 2018

No way I would visit China as long as Xi is still in power. All those power plays against other countries are pretty telling.

junomars · Dec 12, 2018

maxglute said:
Another foot in mouth by Trump. For people who still hold on to the naive notion that Meng's arrest wasn't politically motivated. Trump basically confirmed this is now a hostage situation for better trade outcomes. I can't imagine Meng being extradited when there's clear political motivation. Looks like Michael Kovrig got sacrificed for nothing.

So yeah, America is taking political hostages now.

Lol of course. She's literally being held as a pawn. Rereading this thread is hilarious.

Pet said:
Oh, did she work in the US? From all the articles I read about her, she wasn't in the US working here. It just said she helped her Chinese company dodge US sanctions on Iran, lied to banks, etc.

I didn't know about the bolded. So if China, the country, told Canadian companies that the goods they buy from the factories can't be sold to the US for the border wall, that'd be legal? China could legally arrest and try Canadian citizens who had a layover in Japan?

I mean, I understand if the US government put sanctions on Huawei the company now, and banned her personally from ever traveling to the US, but to actually try and arrest and put on trial a nonUS citizen for something like selling stuff to another country is still baffling for me, especially when there doesn't appear to be a good reason to have those first sanctions anyway.

Extradition as a tradition makes sense and I'm not confused by that. I hope Canada continues to cooperate with the US regarding any extradition requests we make.

I would have expected more that the US demand China turn her over (never going to happen), but I'd expect that to be the case in any situation (if China demanded the US turn over US citizens.)

Rich people really get to play by different rules :/

Yes this is all as empty as it seems. The US has no leg to even stand on here. Our latest position seems to be that money is more important than sanctions when we look at SA, but years old violations of now defunct sanctions deserves an international incident? Yea piss on that.

junomars · Dec 12, 2018

Double post.

Deleted member 15428 · Dec 12, 2018

Neo C. said:
No way I would visit China as long as Xi is still in power. All those power plays against other countries are pretty telling.

At this point I'm not going to set foot in China and the US for a long time. Probably Russia, too.

Lyon N. Laap · Dec 12, 2018

Trump taking advantage of an investigation that predates his administration does not mean she is being held as a pawn.

As far the the DoJ is concerned, she is a legitimate criminal working for a suspect company that blatantly violated US trade laws. Whatever Trump's aspirations for her, he doesn't have any direct involvement in the process unless he decides to do something drastic such as a pardon. Barring that, up until that, and before that there's absolutely no justification for saying she's a political pawn. Unless you believe Obama is a master-class 4D chess player.

Furthermore, as detestable as it may seem, the use of a federal pardoning on a potentially convicted criminal does not constitute a "hostage". That would impy she is being illegitimately held. If extradited and convicted, doing another country a solid by releasing a national who broke our laws should be considered a favor, a key part of negotiations.

Defunct sanctions or not, defrauding US companies by outright lying to them about financial transactions in the amounts they did should be considered a serious crime.

Edit; A key word here is "legitimate". Any retaliatory holdings by the Chinese government would almost assuredly be illegitimate, and such individuals could more accurately be described as political pawns and hostages.

Dragonelite · Dec 12, 2018

Who would have thought that being a puppet in a great power competition, would end well for Canada.

Ogami Itto · Dec 12, 2018

maxglute said:
Another foot in mouth by Trump. For people who still hold on to the naive notion that Meng's arrest wasn't politically motivated. Trump basically confirmed this is now a hostage situation for better trade outcomes. I can't imagine Meng being extradited when there's clear political motivation. Looks like Michael Kovrig got sacrificed for nothing.

So yeah, America is taking political hostages now.

Keep living in your ignorance, I'm sure enough idiots in this thread will agree with you.

TarNaru33 · Dec 12, 2018

maxglute said:
Another foot in mouth by Trump. For people who still hold on to the naive notion that Meng's arrest wasn't politically motivated. Trump basically confirmed this is now a hostage situation for better trade outcomes. I can't imagine Meng being extradited when there's clear political motivation. Looks like Michael Kovrig got sacrificed for nothing.

So yeah, America is taking political hostages now.

It wasn't politically motivated, but became so once Trump heard about it. The charge and the arrest is highly unlikely to be due to Trump, he is simply taking advantage of it happening. Trump says things he doesn't have the power to do most of the time. I don't think he can even stop the charge without a pardon as stated above.

However, his interjection in this gives Canada a reason to deny extradition.

To be honest, if a person is important in any way, they should never stay in places like China for too long. China has easy ability to detain people for no reason other than they can.

cameron · Dec 12, 2018

NYT: China Says Detained Canadian Worked for Group Without Legal Registration

BEIJING — China said on Wednesday that a Canadian former diplomat who was detained in Beijing had been employed by an organization that was "not registered in China legally," citing a law passed in 2016 that has had a chilling effect on the work of foreign charities, universities and nonprofit groups in the country.

The assertion was China's first official comment on the detention of Michael Kovrig, senior adviser for Northeast Asia for the International Crisis Group, an independent nongovernmental organization that tries to defuse international conflict.

Officials, however, made no official statement confirming the detention, and they did not detail any more specific accusations against Mr. Kovrig, whose fate has further roiled relations between China and the United States and the West.

Late Wednesday, The Beijing News, a state-owned newspaper, said the state security agency in Beijing was investigating Mr. Kovrig on "suspicion of activities that endanger China's national security." The report could not immediately be verified, but it signaled the possibility that Mr. Kovrig could be prosecuted on more serious charges.

Caz · Dec 12, 2018

China apologists will never cease to disappoint me.
Meanwhile, China is going after random Canadian citizens.

Deleted member 50193 · Dec 12, 2018

Caz said:
China apologists will never cease to disappoint me.
Meanwhile, China is going after random Canadian citizens.

I really hope they are able to contact this other missing Canadian. What an absolute clusterfuck this is becoming. Not helped by Trump opening his trap either. Let the DOJ do their work.

Piecake · Dec 21, 2018

Detained Canadian analyst kept in Chinese cell with lights always on

BEIJING — Michael Kovrig, one of two Canadians being detained in China, is being kept in a cell with the lights on 24 hours a day, according to a person familiar with his situation, in what is being seen as an act of Chinese retaliation against Canada for the arrest of an influential executive.

Kovrig has also been denied access to a lawyer and will be allowed only one consular visit a month, the person said on condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive situation.

Kovrig was detained by plainclothes officers in Beijing at 10 p.m. on Dec 10, the person said. He is now being held at an undisclosed location and is not allowed access to a lawyer or loved ones or apply for bail.

The conditions of Kovrig's detention contrast starkly with those of Meng, who was released Sunday on $7.4 million bail after a multiday court hearing, in which she was represented by high-powered lawyers and observed by throngs of journalists. She is now staying at one of her luxury homes in Vancouver while awaiting the outcome of her extradition proceedings, which could take many months.

Chinese authorities are able to keep suspects in secret locations for up to six months — without access to a lawyer — as they gather evidence under a system called "residential surveillance at a designated location." Those who have experienced the ordeal have described intense interrogation sessions and, on occasion, beatings and torture as authorities seek confessions that can be used in court or for propaganda purposes.

There is no indication that Kovrig has been beaten, although sleep deprivation through incessant lighting is classified as a form of torture.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.897fac112177

Torture...

firehawk12 · Dec 21, 2018

The other story is that they picked up a teacher as well so even "normal" people are at risk.

But you know, "important trade partner".

Ogami Itto · Dec 21, 2018

Where are all the Chinese government boot lickers?

junomars · Dec 21, 2018

Piecake said:
Detained Canadian analyst kept in Chinese cell with lights always on

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.897fac112177

Torture...

This is crazy. I hope the defunct UN Iran sanctions are worth all of this.

siteseer · Dec 21, 2018

all this pent up rage on era. in every china themed thread. always with the 'fuck china' 'china does x' derailments. you guys like to shit on that country because you know you won't get any push back and when you do, usually from people who have first hand experience in that country, you want to paint them as apologists because fuck them too right? so, you can't lose! listen, we know shit is fucked up, but you guys just look real desperate with that impotent aggression.

back on topic. china is playing international power politics, which is inevitable. i don't see stuff like this ever going away. the only to ask is if canada wants to raise the stakes and start a tit for tat for tit war. you know each side has a roster of people on watch lists ready to be taken in. its just a little sad that canada has to play middle man in a proxy trade war between the two top world powers.

Deleted member 36543 · Dec 21, 2018

siteseer said:
all this pent up rage on era. in every china themed thread. always with the 'fuck china' 'china does x' derailments. you guys like to shit on that country because you know you won't get any push back and when you do, usually from people who have first hand experience in that country, you want to paint them as apologists because fuck them too right? so, you can't lose! listen, we know shit is fucked up, but you guys just look real desperate with that impotent aggression.

back on topic. china is playing international power politics, which is inevitable. i don't see stuff like this ever going away. the only to ask is if canada wants to raise the stakes and start a tit for tat for tit war. you know each side has a roster of people on watch lists ready to be taken in. its just a little sad that canada has to play middle man in a proxy trade war between the two top world powers.

This is true. ERA hates China. I'm not a fan of China nor am i a fan of U.S current leadership but i'm a big fan of Canada. Why the hell did Canada get involved in this crap between 2 powers? I thought Canada leadership was smarter than this.

AuthenticM · Dec 21, 2018

siteseer said:
you guys like to shit on that country because you know you won't get any push back

China gets shit on because they are a fascist State with no regards to human rights, a State that is currently genociding millions of people and harvesting them for their fucking organs. China deserves every ounce of hate and criticism they get.

"listen, we know shit is fucked up" lmao get real

ahoyhoy · Dec 21, 2018

Piecake said:
Detained Canadian analyst kept in Chinese cell with lights always on

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.897fac112177

Torture...

Why the fuck would anyone from a European/American nation chose to live in China after this? Christ.

AcademicSaucer · Dec 21, 2018

AuthenticM said:
China gets shit on because they are a fascist State with no regards to human rights, a State that is currently genociding millions of people and harvesting them for their fucking organs. China deserves every ounce of hate and criticism they get.

"listen, we know shit is fucked up" lmao get real

People like to think they would be the ones helping the jews had they been in Nazi Germany when they would most likely be the guy telling the Allies "we know shit is fucked up, but you guys just look real desperate with that impotent aggression "

over a million people of an etnhic minority in concentrations camps in 2018 soon to be 2019

AuthenticM · Dec 21, 2018

AcademicSaucer said:
People like to think they would be the ones helping the jews had they been in Nazi Germany when they would most likely be the guy telling the Allies "we know shit is fucked up, but you guys just look real desperate with that impotent aggression "

100%

it's some facism-enabling shit by a call to "civility" or some such nonsense. It's adjacent behavior to the "both sides" shit.

excelsiorlef · Dec 21, 2018

We have Tankies for Russia apologists, we need one for China apologists now

junomars · Dec 21, 2018

siteseer said:
all this pent up rage on era. in every china themed thread. always with the 'fuck china' 'china does x' derailments. you guys like to shit on that country because you know you won't get any push back and when you do, usually from people who have first hand experience in that country, you want to paint them as apologists because fuck them too right? so, you can't lose! listen, we know shit is fucked up, but you guys just look real desperate with that impotent aggression.

back on topic. china is playing international power politics, which is inevitable. i don't see stuff like this ever going away. the only to ask is if canada wants to raise the stakes and start a tit for tat for tit war. you know each side has a roster of people on watch lists ready to be taken in. its just a little sad that canada has to play middle man in a proxy trade war between the two top world powers.

Its easy to sit on the internet and act tough and shit on a place you likely have never visited and never plan to visit. I would love to know what these people, who obviously are so impassioned, have done in real life to help the people they claim to care so much about.

I've learned to ignore the arm chair activists who have nothing much to offer to any conversation other than "fuck ____".

Deleted member 907 · Dec 21, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
We have Tankies for Russia apologists, we need one for China apologists now

ChiComs...the classics work best.

siteseer · Dec 21, 2018

AuthenticM said:
China gets shit on because they are a fascist State with no regards to human rights, a State that is currently genociding millions of people and harvesting them for their fucking organs. China deserves every ounce of hate and criticism they get.

"listen, we know shit is fucked up" lmao get real

millions of people are getting killed and harvested? i would like to know more. honest question.

Deleted member 8901 · Dec 21, 2018

siteseer said:
all this pent up rage on era. in every china themed thread. always with the 'fuck china' 'china does x' derailments. you guys like to shit on that country because you know you won't get any push back and when you do, usually from people who have first hand experience in that country, you want to paint them as apologists because fuck them too right? so, you can't lose! listen, we know shit is fucked up, but you guys just look real desperate with that impotent aggression.

back on topic. china is playing international power politics, which is inevitable. i don't see stuff like this ever going away. the only to ask is if canada wants to raise the stakes and start a tit for tat for tit war. you know each side has a roster of people on watch lists ready to be taken in. its just a little sad that canada has to play middle man in a proxy trade war between the two top world powers.

Yeah we all just shit on China for fun. It's not like some of us have personal connections to places like Hong Kong that's basically having its culture and independence stripped away, or having its people "disappeared", or having peaceful protesters beaten. Fuck China.

YuYu · Dec 21, 2018

This confirms once again that China is a shithole.You couldn't pay me to go there.Fuck the chinese government.

kingslunk · Dec 21, 2018

siteseer said:
all this pent up rage on era. in every china themed thread. always with the 'fuck china' 'china does x' derailments. you guys like to shit on that country because you know you won't get any push back and when you do, usually from people who have first hand experience in that country, you want to paint them as apologists because fuck them too right? so, you can't lose! listen, we know shit is fucked up, but you guys just look real desperate with that impotent aggression.

back on topic. china is playing international power politics, which is inevitable. i don't see stuff like this ever going away. the only to ask is if canada wants to raise the stakes and start a tit for tat for tit war. you know each side has a roster of people on watch lists ready to be taken in. its just a little sad that canada has to play middle man in a proxy trade war between the two top world powers.

Haha. Just go google some shit on China and you'll end up at the same point a lot of us are at. The Chinese government sucks big time.

The Bookerman · Dec 21, 2018

Monkey_D said:
This is true. ERA hates China. I'm not a fan of China nor am i a fan of U.S current leadership but i'm a big fan of Canada. Why the hell did Canada get involved in this crap between 2 powers? I thought Canada leadership was smarter than this.

Canada has to do it: they have an extradition treaty.if canada tells the U.S that an indicted person is on U.S soil and ask for it's extraditon. They have to fulfill that request, or be in breach.

Dekuman · Dec 21, 2018

YuYu said:
This confirms once again that China is a shithole.You couldn't pay me to go there.Fuck the chinese government.

Just go to Taiwan. It's the better China.

firehawk12 · Dec 21, 2018

Dekuman said:
Just go to Taiwan. It's the better China.

I kind of wonder though. If Russia can just annex another country and no one will do anything about it, could China just decide to formally take Taiwan back?

Dekuman · Dec 21, 2018

firehawk12 said:
I kind of wonder though. If Russia can just annex another country and no one will do anything about it, could China just decide to formally take Taiwan back?

Oh yes that is the PRCs end goal.

One country two systems is a complete farce if you look at what is happening in Hong Kong. People who believe in democracy should stand up to China.

Deleted member 36543 · Dec 21, 2018

The Bookerman said:
Canada has to do it: they have an extradition treaty.if canada tells the U.S that an indicted person is on U.S soil and ask for it's extraditon. They have to fulfill that request, or be in breach.

Trust me Trump wouldn't do the same. Canada is caught between a rock and a hard place and endanger Canadian citizens abroad over this.

Deleted member 36543 · Dec 21, 2018

Dekuman said:
Oh yes that is the PRCs end goal.

One country two systems is a complete farce if you look at what is happening in Hong Kong. People who believe in democracy should stand up to China.

Are you Chinese? You seems to have this deep hate for China so im thinking you experience 1st hand whats going on over there. Care to tell your story?

Taki · Dec 21, 2018

firehawk12 said:
I kind of wonder though. If Russia can just annex another country and no one will do anything about it, could China just decide to formally take Taiwan back?

The PRC's amphibious capability isn't quite there yet. It's hard to mount an invasion over sea. In addition, the USA (historically so far) has intervened over previous intimidation attempts.

Deleted member 19003 · Dec 21, 2018

siteseer said:
millions of people are getting killed and harvested? i would like to know more. honest question.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/china-still-gathering-organs-executed-prisoners

https://www.chinaorganharvest.org/

Dekuman · Dec 21, 2018

Monkey_D said:
Are you Chinese? You seems to have this deep hate for China so im thinking you experience 1st hand whats going on over there. Care to tell your story?

Yes. Are you?

Deleted member 36543 · Dec 21, 2018

Dekuman said:
Yes. Are you?

No I am not. Don't want to tell your story?

Former Canadian diplomat detained in China, possibly related to Meng Wanzhou (Huawei) detention in Canada

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