Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,111
That sound's like an issue that could be fixed with the SDK. Just have the games poll for the confirm/cancel buttons and the onscreen prompts are handled by the OS.
That could never work for games (or be reasonably enforced) - there's no generic concept of 'on-screen prompts' - there's literally as many variations of it as there are games (Actually more, since some games are internally inconsistent as well) - and that goes for all platforms, everywhere.
OS did drive the action mapping starting with PSP onwards (that is something games 'do' poll for) but whether the application correctly implement utilization/visualization is a question of quality control for each SKU.
 

MysticGon

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,285
Saw this on Reddit last night and thought a lot of people on here might find the discussion in the AMA enlightening. A former Sony employee (r/Vita mod vetted) who worked in close proximity to the vita reveals a lot of fascinating information about Sony. I'll post some choice Qs and As below, but I encourage you all to read the whole thread. Not sure if this is posted before, so close me down like I'm the PS3/Vita storefront if old.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/vita/comme...urce=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

A crying shame and painfully obvious to anyone paying attention.
 

FinalArcadia

Member
Nov 4, 2020
1,825
USA
Backwards compatibility is one of the most requested and least used features. I don't know what Jim specifically said about how little it was used, but that is true by the numbers we had.
This just makes me sad as someone who played a good amount of PS1 games on the PS3. Presumably it's similar for Microsoft with BC (well, I'm just guessing), but they still bother to try to support older games on new hardware. So much good stuff on previous Sony consoles and people really wouldn't play it to make the feature worth it on PS5 and beyond? Especially when you can find cheap old games at local video game stores, it's just wild to me as someone who loves looking for old games to try.
 

Mr Punished

Member
Oct 27, 2017
616
OUTER HEAVEN
This just makes me sad as someone who played a good amount of PS1 games on the PS3. Presumably it's similar for Microsoft with BC (well, I'm just guessing), but they still bother to try to support older games on new hardware. So much good stuff on previous Sony consoles and people really wouldn't play it to make the feature worth it on PS5 and beyond? Especially when you can find cheap old games at local video game stores, it's just wild to me as someone who loves looking for old games to try.
This statement was true at one point, but it's a very different market now, especially with digital purchases. I imagine current numbers for people using backwards compatibility look very different on the PS5 and Series consoles. That specific line of argument was used during the PS4 days when emulating PS3 hardware just wasn't plausible, and it was metrics regarding PS2 on PS3 and PSP on Vita, which once again just isn't comparable to what a hypothetical straight BC support for PS4/Xbox One could have been.

Thinking back, the numbers would not have worked out for PS4 either. If the PS4 ever had BC, and the Xbox One had it from the beginning, it would have been totally different than the PS360 days. On a personal note, there was the early days of GTAO that I had to keep going back to on PS3, The Last of Us MP before being ported, Dark Souls II and its DLC before being ported, Borderlands 2 and DLC before being ported, Gran Turismo 6, Puppeteer, God of War Ascension's weird MP I checked out for a bit, and even Bioshock DLC. All whilst still having a PS4. I remember thinking at the time that damn I wish I could play this on my PS4, it was annoying, so many active games and digital purchases never honoured. Lots of the mainstream stuff would be ported of course, but often years later and of course requiring a second purchase.

Early PS4 and Xbox One days were dry with content, it really took over a good year and a bit for things to start taking off on the software side. Today still, 360 games can often be found topping charts on the new systems, and right now BC is more important than ever. The lucky ones with a PS5 are using it all the time to play PS4 games. Now if Sony invested into BC for PS3 would it make a big splash? Probably not, but at the time and if possible for BC support on PS4 would have been huge. Really that argument that BC is often requested but never used is just damn outdated and not really applicable to anything anymore. If a Switch successor is another fresh restart for example I could imagine that would be almost marketing suicide at this point. People want their digital purchases to matter.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
OT but your avatar is incredible.

Lmao thank you. One of my favorite memes. Gordon Ramsay's is the best one. A few years back people were just posting a lot of middle cropped celebrities, and the Gordon Ramsay one was my favorite. I had to edit my avatar to make the "sosig" still fit in a square picture lol.

Seems to make people smile :)
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
The PS3 went out with a bang in 2013. Last of Us was the biggest one but it wasn't the only one.

It really did. It just feels that Sony got so caught up in just the Last of Us because that's what everyone talked about they forgot that it was simply the headline of a swathe of incredible games that built a brand.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,502
People on this board continue to perpetuate this false narrative when the Media Create threads have been here since the beginning and the numbers show that it's not true. The console market in Japan is growing and that's not up for debate.

Sony is losing marketshare in Japan. Nintendo is eating Sony's share AND growing it's audience at the same time.

The home console marked is shrinking, which is Sony's core marked. Mobile and handheld/Switch are doing well, but what good does that do Sony?

They are not going to try going into the handheld marked again after the Vita and home consoles are doing good in most other big markeds in the world. From a business perspective it doesn't make sense for Sony to focus on Japan.
 
Nov 1, 2020
685
Fun little butterfly effect. On the consumer side of things, the proprietary memory cards were absolutely loathed, of course. But supposedly (and quite plausibly, seeing Nintendo's behavior) Sony was spooked into designing said cards in the first place as a reaction to the hacking of the PSP. I'd wager that PSP hackers never intended to play a part in one of the negative aspects of the PSP's successor.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,662
Not really new info on the japan situation but it sure sucks.

Makes me also think of these news from some years ago where Japanese devs need to go through an english approval process for their games content
 
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ShiningBash

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,416
Sony's BC metrics are probably outdated as fuck and reflect PS3 owners not really wanting to play standard definition, interlaced PS2 games on their early LCD panels. What other data would they have besides PSP on Vita?

The way Microsoft has most games running at 4K/60 is a completely different ballgame.
The recency of the data is an interesting point, but ultimately I think that people like to use data to justify opinions they already have. While you're correct that it's probably a bad idea to assume that 2008 PS3 BC data to add support for PS1/PS2/PS3 games on the PS5, I think the bigger issue is that BC is incompatible with their goal of industry-leading visuals/presentation. Up-rezed PS1 games undermine the "premium" ethos of the brand.

I mean, the elephant in the room about justifying the drop of Vita support as a purely business decision is that PSVR likely hasn't sold anywhere close to 16m units. They're continuing to support it bc VR is the cutting edge of gaming technology and they have no competition among the big 3 (unlike playing second fiddle to Nintendo with handhelds). Furthermore, it's common for businesses to tolerate short-term underperformance as part of a longer-term play for a market.

In short, I'm sure Sony has a lot of data showing that the juice isn't worth the squeeze on BC, but they never really needed it bc it was a forgone conclusion.
 

yyr

Member
Nov 14, 2017
3,525
White Plains, NY
Not true at all. PS still has and definitely has Japanese 3rd party support unless Nintendo come up with something as powerful as PS5. (Nintendo: lol nope)

I look at the Disgaea series as an example of what Japanese devs are thinking in this regard.

In January 2008, Disgaea 3 was released in Japan. The PS3 was less than 18 months old at this point, the PS2 was still being supported with lots of software, and there was nothing Disgaea 3 did that could not have happened on the PS2. And yet, NIS decided to release it on PS3, instead of PS2. They were looking forward, to the future, and decided that the new system was where it was at.

In March 2015, Disgaea 5 released in Japan. This time, the PS4 was less than 18 months old, and PS3 was still being supported. And yet, NIS released it on PS4, instead of PS3. Once again, this was the future, and NIS was looking forward.

Disgaea 6 just released in Japan. On PS5? No. It's on PS4--and on Switch, where 60% of first-week copies were sold. And here's the real kicker: outside of Japan, for the first time, it's not releasing on any PlayStation platform at all. It will be a Switch exclusive everywhere else.

I don't have a list in front of me, but I feel like this is the trend. The Japanese games that have been on PlayStation consoles and portables for years are frequently appearing on or flat-out moving to Switch, and sometimes PC. At best, the diversity that we've always seen on PS platforms is shrinking; at worst, it's vanishing. It will be a few years before we see the full extent of this, but I can say that I don't personally like their new direction. The exclusive Japanese games born from PlayStation's diversity were the reason I was buying their consoles in the first place. Now, I have no plans to buy a PS5.
 

Fukuzatsu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,334
I look at the Disgaea series as an example of what Japanese devs are thinking in this regard.

In January 2008, Disgaea 3 was released in Japan. The PS3 was less than 18 months old at this point, the PS2 was still being supported with lots of software, and there was nothing Disgaea 3 did that could not have happened on the PS2. And yet, NIS decided to release it on PS3, instead of PS2. They were looking forward, to the future, and decided that the new system was where it was at.

In March 2015, Disgaea 5 released in Japan. This time, the PS4 was less than 18 months old, and PS3 was still being supported. And yet, NIS released it on PS4, instead of PS3. Once again, this was the future, and NIS was looking forward.

Disgaea 6 just released in Japan. On PS5? No. It's on PS4--and on Switch, where 60% of first-week copies were sold. And here's the real kicker: outside of Japan, for the first time, it's not releasing on any PlayStation platform at all. It will be a Switch exclusive everywhere else.

I don't have a list in front of me, but I feel like this is the trend. The Japanese games that have been on PlayStation consoles and portables for years are frequently appearing on or flat-out moving to Switch, and sometimes PC. At best, the diversity that we've always seen on PS platforms is shrinking; at worst, it's vanishing. It will be a few years before we see the full extent of this, but I can say that I don't personally like their new direction. The exclusive Japanese games born from PlayStation's diversity were the reason I was buying their consoles in the first place. Now, I have no plans to buy a PS5.
The difficulty in the comparison here is that it felt like in the PS2 era, Sony didn't really have to do very much to secure exclusives from major Japanese 3rd parties. By and large, the lion's share of all games Namco, Squaresoft, Konami, and others produced in that generation went exclusively to the PS2, with far less going full multiplatform, let alone to the PC. Final Fantasy X, Final Fantasy XII, Tekken, Ridge Racer V, Ace Combat, Metal Gear Solid 3, Dragon Quest VIII, Tales of Destiny, Tales of Rebirth, Xenosaga, Armored Core, Virtua Fighter 4, Devil May Cry, Onimusha 2 and 3--like, quite literally you were tripping over them, and these are just off the top of my head.

I also have a hard time believing Sony was in any way engaging in the same kind of efforts as today to pay for and secure each of these deals. And in most cases they just never came to any other platforms for the rest of the generation! The value was insane. If this was still the case it would be a no brainer, but even Namco, the first and most tightly-bound 3rd party from the original era of PlayStation has migrated entirely to multiplatform development for what were once key PS exclusives; Ridge Racer is dead, Time Crisis is locked to arcades, and the others like Tales, Tekken, Ace Combat, and SoulCalibur, are all available elsewhere.
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
This sums it up for most of Era discussions very well.
Feels like only a thing on Sony systems, because people demand all these old games from Nintendo and are buying all the old games that come to the system whether it's from Nintendo, Arcade Archives, Capcom collections and back catalog releases, NSO, and more. While on Xbox, their BC stuff is a huge success and people are buying those old games.
 

Kresnik

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,975
Probably a good bit below 16m total worldwide. We have totals through 2019 via IDG for most major markets, and these are likely close to final given western production stopped before then and Asia stopped that year.

JP: 5,731,000

US: 2,440,000
CA: 260,000

UK: 740,000
FR: 480,000
ES: 430,000
DE: 350,000
IT: 290,000
BE+DK+LU: 190,000
NO+SE+IS+FI: 110,000

That's only 11,021,000 for nearly all major markets. I think even if you're extremely bullish on the rest of Eastern Europe/Central and South Americas/Asia/Pacific/Middle East/etc you're probably only pushing 13m territory.

The poster around whom this whole thread is made is claiming 17m.

A while ago I tried to track all reported sales information for Vita from trackers/press releases/comments etc. I got to 10.2m. But there's just too many gaps in the data for it to really be worthwhile, I'm missing huge gaps in basically everything SEA/non-USA-NA/Oceania etc.

I'm not sure what IDG is but some of the data reported above there seems to contradict reported figures as well. For example, I'm assuming "ES" is Spain? James Armstrong (I believe he was something like Sony Iberia head at the time) reported 600k Vita sold in Spain by the point of that article in 2015. So being 170k short four years later is... wrong? I've also got 535k for France as per Nintendo/GFK by 2016..

Either way, 17m seems high to me, but that's kinda my point - it's all speculation and we've only got sort of 10-11m of confirmed sales and a lot of possibilities beyond that. I've always seen it in the 15m ballpark.

okay. it stood out to me as confirming that this guy wasn't bullshitting. at least not that part. also he kept mentioning 2016 and 2017. you may remember in 2016 and 2017 how i'd keep doomposting in the official vita threads but this sort of behind-the-scenes stuff was why.

Ha, I remember those days. And here we are...

Tbh I was still shocked it got as many localizations as it did through 2016-2019. Ever since you started doomsaying for it I begin to think "this'll be the last year" and then it just kept going.

I do remember, yeah. It was bound to happen sooner or later and I was one of the few at the time that was saying that CFW hacking would do more harm than good. Still, it is what it is.

I believe some developers are making their games cross-buy with a PS4 port to make "Vita sales" possible through discounting the PS4 games. I don't know how bigger companies like NIS America or Aksys could do it, but since it's either sell a few more copies by making these games cross-buy or just lose all sales for the Vita version in a few months, I believe it's a good strategy for this last stretch.

Sometimes You (publisher of various indie games) has claimed it's possible on Twitter recently. But we haven't seen their titles change to cross-buy (yet). It probably won't be worth the resources for any of the localization houses (we've already seen PQube admit defeat and try and get a few final sales from the PSP3Vita userbase with some of their recent Twitter posting), but you're right. There's a good deal of games that could be made cross-buy to get sales after the store closes from all of them.
 

yyr

Member
Nov 14, 2017
3,525
White Plains, NY
The difficulty in the comparison here is that it felt like in the PS2 era, Sony didn't really have to do very much to secure exclusives from major Japanese 3rd parties. By and large, the lion's share of all games Namco, Squaresoft, Konami, and others produced in that generation went exclusively to the PS2, with far less going full multiplatform, let alone to the PC.

Definitely. If anything, this adds to what I was saying. The market has changed, and the attitudes of Japanese devs & publishers have changed along with it.

PS2 was an absolute 100% must-have if you were a fan of Japanese games. So many Japanese games were on it, both mainstream and niche, from the big franchises like Ridge Racer, Time Crisis, and Tekken, to music games like Taiko no Tatsujin, Dance Dance Revolution, and beatmania IIDX, to smaller productions like Gitaroo Man, Mister Mosquito, and Chulip, not to mention their very own Japan Studio games. And of course, tons of JRPGs and SRPGs including the aforementioned Disgaea. I owned a number of these games and still do.

This continued into the PS3, perhaps only to a slightly lesser extent. I bought mine for Ridge Racer and Tekken (again), and kept it for Project DIVA, Deadstorm Pirates, and House of the Dead 4. But there were still lots of new niche games on it, too, many remaining exclusive.

You could start to see the changes in the PS4 generation. I bought mine for Shenmue III, and had to get Project DIVA Future Tone too. The latter was ported to Switch later, though not with all of its songs. Although I'm ultimately keeping my PS4 for those games as well as PSVR, there wasn't much else on it that interested me. The first-party exclusives don't appeal to me much, and anything that wasn't exclusive, I generally got on Xbox (my primary platform since 360).

Now, as a result of their new strategy, I have no interest in their current products. My Vita will remain my primary portable for now, since I already have years' worth of things to play on it and will be adding more, but once my XB1X feels old I'll just upgrade to (hopefully) a smaller, flatter revision of the Series X.

I understand that I am not a representative of the market at large, but seeing as how the PlayStation brand was built on the massive amount of variety in their exclusives, I believe it will almost certainly have some sort of negative effect on the brand moving forward.
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,602
Q: Could you shed light on their culture of IP abandonment? Sony has a wealth of dead franchises and legacy content that they seemingly do not care to bring forward.

A: Certain IP has more value in a cultural sense than it does in a market sense. I know it's not Sony, but look at Metroid for a comparison. That franchise is critical to the history of games, but it's sold 20 Million copies throughout its life. The most recent Animal Crossing game outsold that entire franchise. Sony is a business and they care first and foremost about where the money is, not where the sentiment is.

I can understand this to an extent, but on the other hand, I can't help but think: So how the hell did Medievil happen?