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Francis Ford Coppola backs Scorsese in row over Marvel films

Angie

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Who should I take their opinions more seriously?

Scorsese and Coppola, that are some of the best and most awarded film directors, that game the world some of the best movies ever?

Or some forum users that think is ok to insult and discredit people based on their age?

Really hard choice.
/s just in case is not evident enough.
 

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Bossking said:
Ford Coppola felt the trail of a single tear traveling down the wrinkles of his cheek as Ant-Man grew 100-feet tall in the fortieth minute of the airport fight scene in Civil War. As Ant-Man tried to swat a flying robot man with mounted gatling guns on both shoulders, he could no longer hold himself back. The dam had cracked and gave way, the tears flowing from his eyes in a flood of emotions. "I was a fool." He could scarcely mutter the words to himself as Spider-Man tied a web around Ant-Man's feet to make him trip and fall. "A blind, old, wrong fool." He whispered. Hawkeye shot an explosive arrow from his tech bow at Iron Man, and Frank Coppola clapped harder than he ever clapped in his long, meaningless life.
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I like how you described War Machine.
 
Kasumin

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Darknight said:
That is an example of an intellectual discussion to take away from the MCU?
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Was just one example. It came up in the context of writing some fanfiction about Steve adjusting to the present. What would be familiar and what wouldn't? It's let to discussions of how fashion, food, media, vocabulary, and so on have changed throughout the 20th century.

Gets us to look for other details in the movies. It's fun, and I've learned a lot from these kinds of discussions.
 
Rendering...

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Angie22 said:
Who should I take their opinions more seriously?

Scorsese and Coppola, that are some of the best and most awarded film directors, that game the world some of the best movies ever?

Or some forum users that think is ok to insult and discredit people based on their age?

Really hard choice.
/s just in case is not evident enough.
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What about people insulting and discrediting them for doing a perfect impression of uninformed old men?

Don't you think it's kind of essential to see movies that you're going to publicly criticize? Or should people judge FFC's and Scorsese's movies by plot summaries and hearsay?
 
Darknight

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Kasumin said:
Was just one example. It came up in the context of writing some fanfiction about Steve adjusting to the present. What would be familiar and what wouldn't? It's let to discussions of how fashion, food, media, vocabulary, and so on have changed throughout the 20th century.

Gets us to look for other details in the movies. It's fun, and I've learned a lot from these kinds of discussions.
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Honestly, I think it's hurting your point and not helping it. That's shooting the shit and a fun geek discussion, but it's not a intellectual discussion that's going to take place in a film class or studying the art. Nothing wrong with having fun discussions like that, but it's not helping your argument against what he's saying. I'm not even saying he's right, but that was a pretty bad example.
 
Laser Man

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Mido said:
Is it really about the movies or is it about some evil Disney/theatre hijacking drama
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They were perfectly able to ignore everything else in the past that they've deemed not worthy. So it can't be just the movies (could be social media blowing it out of proportions and their smacktalk didn't make waves in the past).
 
Boiled Goose

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Bossking said:
Ford Coppola felt the trail of a single tear traveling down the wrinkles of his cheek as Ant-Man grew 100-feet tall in the fortieth minute of the airport fight scene in Civil War. As Ant-Man tried to swat a flying robot man with mounted gatling guns on both shoulders, he could no longer hold himself back. The dam had cracked and gave way, the tears flowing from his eyes in a flood of emotions. "I was a fool." He could scarcely mutter the words to himself as Spider-Man tied a web around Ant-Man's feet to make him trip and fall. "A blind, old, wrong fool." He whispered. Hawkeye shot an explosive arrow from his tech bow at Iron Man, and Frank Coppola clapped harder than he ever clapped in his long, meaningless life.
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Not sure about the angle here.
 
Trup1aya

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lunarworks said:
Birds of a feather.

Also, there's certainly a gap between "cinema" and "movies". Art and pulp. You can enjoy both.
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no there isn't.

Cinema:
1a: MOTION PICTURE —usually used attributively
b: a motion-picture theater
2a: MOVIESespecially : the film industry
b: the art or technique of making motion pictures
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These old guys are fabricating new definitions for the word "cinema" for the purpose of excluding films they don't like. i.e. gatekeeping

There may never Be an MCU film as artistically celebrated as the best work of Scorsese or FFC, but that's not a bar that a film needs to reach before being considered cinema.
 
Shopolic

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we expect to learn something from cinema, we expect to gain something, some enlightenment, some knowledge, some inspiration
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Completely disagree with this. It reminds me of those hardliners in Iran after revolution. They said things like this 40 years ago and only wanted movies about humanity and great concepts of freedom and things like that!
Cinema is a medium that you can learn something about it, but you can just look at some movies as a pure entertainment too. It's not some philosophy classroom and a director can make anything he/she wants.
And even those MCU movies can teach something to kids like friendship, responsibility, teamwork and... but even without those things, they're some fun movies that millions of people like them.
 
Boiled Goose

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Kaswa101 said:
I mean, he's not wrong. Chill out brehs
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Unless they've actually watched them. They can't really comment on them.

I don't think individually most of the Marvel movies are as good as the best action movies like mad max, terminator 2, and the matrix... But are those not cinema?

If fucking avatar is cinema I don't see marvel movies aren't.

Lord of the rings has fantastical casts of characters and long action scenes in fantasy settings. Not cinema?
 
Gustaf

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some people bringout terms like "AGEISM" just to shit on marvel is something else, that much i tell you.

i mean scorserse supports polanski so, this is the man you wanna side just to shit on movies that you dont like?
 
Coyote Starrk

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The movies are good (for the most part) and they are cinema. The dudes are just wrong. Just because they don't like them doesn't mean they aren't cinema.
 
Boiled Goose

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apocat said:
Marvel certainly isn't "popping", though. I like watching them too, but let's be honest, they're the McDonalds of movies. And as much as I can enjoy a quarter pounder at times, I really struggle to call McDonalds actual food.
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They're entitled to call them bad movies after they've actually watched them. I don't think the line they're delineating exists.

I'm sure some previous snob thought movies about gangsters and dirty cops weren't art.
 
Gustaf

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apocat said:
Marvel certainly isn't "popping", though. I like watching them too, but let's be honest, they're the McDonalds of movies. And as much as I can enjoy a quarter pounder at times, I really struggle to call McDonalds actual food.
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the all time box office top movie, is not "popping" people, you hear it here first.
 

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What in god's name is happening in this thread.

Its possible to enjoy marvel movies for what they are while also being aware they aren't here to push the medium in any direction that doesn't involve profits.

Bossking said:
There have been 23 Marvel films in 11 years.

Name like, 5 villains.
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Killmonger, Thanos, Loki, Winter Soldier, Vulture

Things have definitely picked up in that regard.
 
Coyote Starrk

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Lundren said:
Good analogy, because regardless of your feelings, it definitely is food.
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This. I don't get why this is so hard for people to understand. It's okay to not like the MCU, but trying to say it's "not cinema" just because you yourself don't like it is stupid.

That's like me saying Country music isn't actually music because I don't like the way it sounds.
 
Angie

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Rendering... said:
What about people insulting and discrediting them for doing a perfect impression of uninformed old men?

Don't you think it's kind of essential to see movies that you're going to publicly criticize? Or should people judge FFC's and Scorsese's movies by plot summaries and hearsay?
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This is me assuming, so I can be completely wrong on this.
But I assume if the directors of Goodfellas and The Godfather seen Ant-man and The Wasp, their opinions would probably not change that much.
Again, this is me assuming.
 
Samanosuke Akechi

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This thread.


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UltraMagnus

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Looking at the quote and breaking it down

"When Martin Scorsese says that the Marvel pictures are not cinema, he's right because we expect to learn something from cinema, we expect to gain something, some enlightenment, some knowledge, some inspiration.

"I don't know that anyone gets anything out of seeing the same movie over and over again," the 80-year-old filmmaker said.

I mean this part of it ok, it may not be an opinion everyone agrees with, but it's an opinion that's at least based in something, the Marvel films don't really attempt to have a meaningful theme most of the time. This part:

"Martin was kind when he said it's not cinema. He didn't say it's despicable, which I just say it is."

This part of it I think is going a bit overboard though and is pretty harsh, lol. "Despicable" is pretty scathing of a word to use.
 

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The fast food analogy is pretty good.

Also that Scorsese, Coppola, Lucas, Spielberg etc were part of the new wave decades ago that sought to give more power to the director, than the studio in making movies. That's probably the reason why both of the former dislike the MCU.

I can empathise. I can also agree that despite my misgivings with the MCU, Kevin Fiege has been one of the best producers to helm something of that stature, and there are movies in the MCU that I really like. Also it warms my heart to see my nephews talk excitedly every time a new MCU movie is coming out.
 
apocat

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Lundren said:
Good analogy, because regardless of your feelings, it definitely is food.
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Yes, and the marvel movies are just that, movies, which Coppola also calls them in the original post. Calling them "cinema" is like calling McDonalds gourmet food, and if you do that, I'll have a hard time taking you seriously.

I need to restate that I like watching the marvel movies, I've seen them all and had fun with them. However, aside from Gunns and Waititis movies, I also find them utterly disposable. I wouldn't go as far as to say they're despicable, like Coppola does, but I certainly see where he's coming from.


Gustaf said:
the all time box office top movie, is not "popping" people, you hear it here first.
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Then I can only assume that you find Ed Sheerans "Shape of you" popping? It's the most streamed song on spotify after all. 🤗
 
JoJo'sDentCo

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They are basically saying 'I think fast food is gross'. Some people love fast food. Some hate it.
They probably just think there is too much fast food (formulaic Superhero movies) nowadays.
 
CloudWolf

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Jiggy said:
When are Lucas and Spielberg gonna jump in on this Marvel debate? If only Hitchcock was alive to give us his thoughts on Spider-Man fighting Thanos in space.
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Spielberg probably loves them, considering he made his own dumb attempt at a mass-market superhero film with Ready Player One.
 
CloudWolf

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Khanimus said:
If you enjoy these movies, do you genuinely have any reason to give a shit about these "not cinema" takes? What are either of these men going to do to take the Marvel movies away from you?

Both these men have a host of historically important films to their name. What is interesting or compelling or even worth complaining about by them going "Eh I don't like 'em"? Like... so what? People keep clicking on this shit because of fucking course "iconic film-maker comments on Marvel" is going to do well for traffic.

Like, who fucking cares? This isn't their space and they have nothing particularly interesting to add to the conversation beyond what we already know about Disney's throat on the neck of popular culture and theater distribution. And even then, their criticism isn't framed to include this stream of boring-ass live-action remakes they're doing or anything. It's squarely on "I don't care about Marvel movies." So who fucking cares? Let them talk about what they wanna talk about, and if it's a real target on how difficult it is for films to be made that don't fit a mass-audience blockbuster machine, go right ahead. Instead, we have a bunch of nerds fighting in-defense of Kevin Feige, who doesn't need defending.

Marvel is fine, it doesn't need people defending its honor.
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This post is the truth. If you like the MCU, what do you care that somebody doesn't like them.

I'm not going to throw a hissy fit when Francis Ford Coppola or Scorsese would say they don't like the Mission: Impossible movies, or even found them despicable. I'd be like 'Okay, that's a shame, I still love them though."

Who does the MCU fanbase care so much about what <insert acclaimed director> thinks of their favourite blockbuster franchise?
 
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