As distasteful as it is to me, I have to be consistent. If this were to happen in the US imo this should be protected under free speech and I bet the ACLU would get involved.
The arrest itself is indeed interesting. Where I live you'd just get summoned to make your statement etc and if you don't comply, then be escorted there by police. But arrest usually only if there's risk of flight or other immediate danger.And not only someone who was killed by a terrorist, but a selfless hero who exchanged his life for another and was killed by a terrorist, yes.
The question is however, should he be allowed to say this openly? And the next question is, does he need to be arrested for that? Because if this goes trough the courts and he will get no jail time, why was that arrest necessary? The guy seems to be a massive piece of shit, but is he a danger to others? Is there the danger of him fleeing the country over that charge? For real?
Those are things that should be discussed in my opinion.
Also the guy should be ousted and thrown out of his party and his political career should end right here and there, but that is nothing for the state to decide.
Did you even read anything? "One less Macron voter" is inherently political and an attack towards someones ideology.The belief that attacks towards a member of the police should be treated like attacks towards someone's race, religion, sexual orientation, gender, etc. Which is what you are arguing for by calling this tweet 'hate speech'.
The belief that attacks towards a member of the police should be treated like attacks towards someone's race, religion, sexual orientation, gender, etc. Which is what you are arguing for by calling this tweet 'hate speech'.
This isn't why he got arrested. "One less Macron Voter" is a political statement saying that this is a good thing because it happened to someone who opposes your political views.The belief that attacks towards a member of the police should be treated like attacks towards someone's race, religion, sexual orientation, gender, etc. Which is what you are arguing for by calling this tweet 'hate speech'.
Terrorism apologia is pretty much illegal in France which is another layer of how the Israelo-palestinian debate is complicated to even start.This isn't why he got arrested. "One less Macron Voter" is a political statement saying that this is a good thing because it happened to someone who opposes your political views.
Which is fucked up, gross and terrible, and I have no issue with this guy getting in trouble because of it.
Did you even read anything? "One less Macron voter" is inherently political and an attack towards someones ideology.
This isn't why he got arrested. "One less Macron Voter" is a political statement saying that this is a good thing because it happened to someone who opposes your political views.
Which is fucked up, gross and terrible, and I have no issue with this guy getting in trouble because of it.
As a libertarian I can't agree with him being arrested for this.
I'm however in full support of naming and shaming for the piece of shit he really is.
The arrest itself is indeed interesting. Where I live you'd just get summoned to make your statement etc and if you don't comply, then be escorted there by police. But arrest usually only if there's risk of flight or other immediate danger.
No one is saying that guy got arrested for hate speech.Are you guys really comparing someone's political ideology to someone's race, sexuality, or gender orientation? That's pretty gross.
There's 1 kind of crime where prosecutors have special powers, it's terrorism.Yup, I'm also from Germany. So that arrest really rubs me the wrong way. Even if he is convinced and gets jail time, I do not see the slightest reason for him to be arrested now (and reading into this, his detainment has been prolonged for another 24 hours, no reason given apparently). Maybe some French user could give us a heads up how such things are commonly handled in France?
Believing that "murder is a good thing when it happens to *insert group here*" is a bad statement is about as inoffensive a viewpoint as you can get.Are you guys really comparing someone's political ideology to someone's race, sexuality, or gender orientation? That's pretty gross.
No one is saying that guy got arrested for hate speech.
He's most likely in trouble for terrorism apologia however.
If celebrating the death of someone killed by a terrorist and saying "one less voter of my political opposite", in the given context, isn't hate speech then I don't know what is
Depends on if your definition of hate speech covers terrorism or not.
Yeah this guy is such a moron for shitting on a hero. Pathetic
I assume this would be like arrests going out in America when there was the *wink wink* *nudge nudge* around that Vegas mass shooting when it was "speculated" it would mostly be Trump voters?
Horrifically bad taste, idiotic and shows you up to be a complete tool deserving of being shat on from great heights, and possibly suspended on Twitter, but an arrest? The internet and forums had quite a few "Oh, it was a Trump gathering due to country music? Well, I don't know if that's a big loss.... I'M JUST JOKING!".
I mean, check Brits comments around that Farage helicopter crash and while he didn't die, people openly say or joke I wish he did. So where are the lines here? Is it only if you joke/say shitty things openly about an objectively decent/good person?
Some of these arrests are really just coming across like money-making schemes by a Government. Or a waste of money if this tool is actually jailed.
This isn't apologising for terrorism in my opinion, it's some dumb ass making what they think are edgy political statements about how people who might "vote incorrectly" are better off not in the world. There should be consequences for being this callous, but again, another example where I don't think the Government should be putting handcuffs on you quite yet. Incitement would be a different call (such as saying if I had any input here, I would have killed him too/killed someone who votes "wrongly" too).
Then again, sometimes incitement and/or your risk factor is judged on your history and sum of all your offences so far. Seems like this guy has a history of saying/doing stupid shit.
Depends on if your definition of hate speech covers terrorism or not.
I don't think it does in French law but IANAL so who knows.
If the issue has to do with terrorism, hate speech is the least of that guy's worry.
Well guess what, not every hate speech definition is the same as in the US. In my country (Austria) "worldview" is a similar hate crime link as gender, race, etc., in Germany it also includes worldview according to the government declaration. I don't know how it is in France. Hell even the geneva refugee convention lists political views as persecution reason next to race, religion, nationality etc.
So the policeman was a nazi now? Wtf? Did you even just read the OP or anything about this story?It's not hate speech unless you believe that occupations (Police) or political beliefs (Nazism) should be protected like race, religion, sexuality, gender.
that cop gave his life to save hostages at the hands of a terrorist.I don't care about the law, I was correcting the poster who called that tweet 'hate speech'.
It's not hate speech unless you believe that occupations (Police) or political beliefs (Nazism) should be protected like race, religion, sexuality, gender.
For the record, Nazism is not considered political belief per se.I don't care about the law, I was correcting the poster who called that tweet 'hate speech'.
It's not hate speech unless you believe that occupations (Police) or political beliefs (Nazism) should be protected like race, religion, sexuality, gender.
And again terrorism apologia is taken seriously in France.that cop gave his life to save hostages at the hands of a terrorist.
terrorism apologia = hate speech
I would've said its due to state of emergency giving special powers, but seems France is not in that anymore since Nov '17. So I guess like mael said it's the counter-terrorism law giving them special permissions, which seems weird in this case still unless there is something we don't know about (especcially with prolonging it for another 24h).Yup, I'm also from Germany. So that arrest really rubs me the wrong way. Even if he is convinced and gets jail time, I do not see the slightest reason for him to be arrested now (and reading into this, his detainment has been prolonged for another 24 hours, no reason given apparently). Maybe some French user could give us a heads up how such things are commonly handled in France?
If it's counterterrorism, they're 1 law short of being allowed to torture people in special prisons.I would've said its due to state of emergency giving special powers, but seems France is not in that anymore since Nov '17. So I guess like mael said it's the counter-terrorism law giving them special permissions, which seems weird in this case still unless there is something we don't know about (especcially with prolonging it for another 24h).
I would've said its due to state of emergency giving special powers, but seems France is not in that anymore since Nov '17. So I guess like mael said it's the counter-terrorism law giving them special permissions, which seems weird in this case still unless there is something we don't know about (especcially with prolonging it for another 24h).
Reminds me of when Sarkozy actually defused an hostage situation and his political opponents on the left were shitting on him for saving kids' lives as a political stunt.I actually hope there's something we don't know about, because otherwise this is in my opinion a gross misuse of existing laws. Like I said, it will be interesting how this plays out in the end.
However, and this is not exactly off topic, I have to say there's rarely a case where a person is as clearly identifiable as a legit hero as that police officer. He not only did his duty fearless and thorough, he went beyond anything most of us will ever have the courage to do and saved a life, offering his own and in the end paying the ultimate price for it. That man should be a shining example to all of us and to every police officer in the world.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/18/facebook-comments-arrest-prosecution
Man those terrorist apologia acts are extremely authoritarian if that was all he really said. I can't speak French so..
The generation that grew up on edgy, "ironic" racist memes produced the alt-right in America.In regards to the quoted, I was referring to those users justifying the use of a shitty, inappropriate law (in the thread other examples were brought up of how that law was (mis)applied, if I remember correctly you even agreed that some of the other examples were bs?) on someone because they deemed them to be a shit person otherwise. "The law is shit and frequently misused, but it's okay when they use it on this person I dislike" basically. My point having been that a law has to apply to everyone equally, because the qualifications are fulfilled (and the law is proportional in a constitutional context), not because you deem a personal to hold shitty political views. That's also why I said if he commited actual hate speech, as some of the comments in regards to his other activities/personal life has hinted at, convict him on that.
In the quote you're again reducing context because you ignore that he says "gas the jews" to the dog he is training, not as a statement on his own. If he made a video of himself simply saying "gas the jews" such context wouldn't exist and it would obviously be considered hate speech.
Have a receipt for this?This is awful. It's been happening a lot under the US, where people get arrested for anti-cop sentiment on Facebook. Shits scary
You would be surprised at how many times they've been to court.With the same logic, Lepen party members should be all arrested a long time ago
They kicked him out due to this.Does anyone know why he isn't in Melenchon's party anymore? In any case, this is sadly a reocurring theme among parts of the non-center left parties in Europe at the moment: Some are so full of hatred of centrists and/or anyone but them in power that they have these vile excesses. Unelectable garbage people.