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Game of Thrones S8 |OT3| Best season evar. (FULL SPOILERS) (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter Deleted member 2802
- Start date
It's not something a lot of people are remarking on since Yara is a pretty minor character, but amidst all the talk of "character assassination" or whatever, no one has had a more bizarre flip than Yara, who has gone from 7 seasons of fighting for Iron Islands independence, to literally five minutes ago demanding Jon's execution, to meekly acquiescing to Jon's brother being made king, a kid she had never met before, and whose entire sales pitch from Tyrion was "he's the three-eyed raven and can fly". And then when Sansa opts our she makes no attempt to demand the same rights for herself. All the same stuff can be said about the Prince of Dorne, too, though it's a bit less egregious since we've never met him before, and maybe he's just an Edmure-style buffoon.
Speaking of Edmure, it's bizarre that there's not even any discussion of attaching him to Sansa's kingdom rather than Bran's, given that he had already attached himself to Robb's North once before. Or that the Vale lords don't consider the same, given that Sansa is a weird sister-mom to Robin, and Lord Royce, who still seems to control Robin, has literally for three seasons served no role but to stand behind Sansa and nod, and had attached himself and the Vale to Jon's Kingdom of the North.
And then of course there's the mystery of Grey Worm allowing the meeting at all. It's seriously the least well-reasoned scene in the whole show, and it all happens within five minutes. We spent more time electing Jon commander of the Night's Watch than we spent choosing a King after a cataclysmic war.
Say what you will about how the show went about getting to the end (I've got plenty of places to criticize it), the takes on where it ended are pretty hilarious to me. That one about "so much for breaking the wheel and ending the patriarchy" was especially stupid. Two men at the council at the end were basically the butt of jokes, and a woman asserted herself as an independent queen in her home and nobody batted an eye. The new King has no claim to the throne except that he was nominated and confirmed, regardless of the fact his "maleness" (ability to father an heir) didn't apply.
I get that people are disappointed Dany didn't end up on the throne, but the fact she didn't end up on the throne had nothing to do with her being a woman. The fact Cersei was dethroned had nothing to do with her being a woman. When Cersei sat the throne, it was because she took it and people bent the knee. When Dany took control, as briefly as she did, it was because she took it. Cersei's failings can largely be explained by upbringing and the prophecy she heard as a child. Dany's failings aren't unique to her due to her sex, her family is known to have a streak of craziness and her own father had the same issues. Dany's led an army of ritualistic rapists and mutilated brainwashed slaves for 6 seasons. They were both homicidal maniacs and unworthy of the throne, and got their just desserts.
"Yeah but its message ends up being that all women just be cray!" ...I mean not really? There are crazy women in the show, and there are crazy men. There are female antagonists and male antagonists. There are female protagonists and male protagonists. Arya's arc ends up being satisfying and fulfilling her character's development: she never wanted to be a lady. Sansa goes from naive little girl to woke Queen in the North. Lord Royce spends like 4 seasons subjugating himself to her, watching her back and scowling at everyone on her behalf. Brienne gets knighted and seems to be Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, a first. Gilly's always been down to earth and wise counsel to Sam.
The way things ended with the understanding that the crown would no longer pass from father to son and that a pseudo-democracy was now in place seems to be as much as anyone could reasonably expect in terms of breaking the wheel and patriarchal grip on the realm. I don't think the fact it didn't end up in the hands of YASSS QUEEN means the women of the show got done dirty at all.
I get that people are disappointed Dany didn't end up on the throne, but the fact she didn't end up on the throne had nothing to do with her being a woman. The fact Cersei was dethroned had nothing to do with her being a woman. When Cersei sat the throne, it was because she took it and people bent the knee. When Dany took control, as briefly as she did, it was because she took it. Cersei's failings can largely be explained by upbringing and the prophecy she heard as a child. Dany's failings aren't unique to her due to her sex, her family is known to have a streak of craziness and her own father had the same issues. Dany's led an army of ritualistic rapists and mutilated brainwashed slaves for 6 seasons. They were both homicidal maniacs and unworthy of the throne, and got their just desserts.
"Yeah but its message ends up being that all women just be cray!" ...I mean not really? There are crazy women in the show, and there are crazy men. There are female antagonists and male antagonists. There are female protagonists and male protagonists. Arya's arc ends up being satisfying and fulfilling her character's development: she never wanted to be a lady. Sansa goes from naive little girl to woke Queen in the North. Lord Royce spends like 4 seasons subjugating himself to her, watching her back and scowling at everyone on her behalf. Brienne gets knighted and seems to be Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, a first. Gilly's always been down to earth and wise counsel to Sam.
The way things ended with the understanding that the crown would no longer pass from father to son and that a pseudo-democracy was now in place seems to be as much as anyone could reasonably expect in terms of breaking the wheel and patriarchal grip on the realm. I don't think the fact it didn't end up in the hands of YASSS QUEEN means the women of the show got done dirty at all.
Didn't care for the laughter track. Is that an American thing? Otherwise, as the only scene I've seen from Season 8 so far, I loved the writing. D&D can do comic relief, great.
I don't have an issue with the big picture events in a vacuum. The problem is the route taken to reach these points.
I'm certain that if GRRM plans to have Danny murder everyone in KL and for Bran to be king, both will feel natural character progressions.
Did Sansa ever meet her the Tully side of her family for any extended duration? I thought the first season was the first time she ever left the North. I very much doubt Cat would be telling her kids, "yeah your uncle Edmure is the butt of every joke back home, haha!"
Yeah, I don't doubt that King Bran is happening, but I also doubt his story will be so ignored and underdeveloped in the books, or that he'll be quite so useless. People supporting a Bran who played a critical role in defeating the Others and who had made dramatic, public displays of his power is believable. People supporting a Bran who spends most of his days zoning out and being a bird makes no sense. Same with Dany. The possibility that she turns away from her ideals has been amply foreshadowed and built towards. People have been theorizing it for years. It's a matter of execution, building the story piece by piece towards something where even if what Dany does is horrible you still understand her, rather than this sudden, unprompted snap into complete irrationality.
Rumours fly around the kingdom and are overheard all the time. Old Nan probably spilled some tea during story time also. lol
Also, I really doubt Sansa needed much knowledge of Edmure's backstory to realize he was making an ass of himself there lol
I've yet to watch the finale but, feminist critique aside, there seems to be a gesture towards the English constitutional settlement here. Some other nations such as the Macedonians of the classical period also had a king elected by tribal leaders. Arguably the main reason for Alexander's relentless expansionism was his need to keep his generals and their troops eager to support him as a successful leader who delivered riches.
The guy implied getting imprisoned by the Frey's somehow gained him some statecraft experience, IIRC
It is clear that GRRM is trying to play up Bran as someone who knew what he was doing. What is not clear to me is if he will frame this as the old gods of the forest propping him up to defeat the lord of light (Targaryeons) and the new gods (the 5 mainland kingdoms converted by the Andalls)
What bugs me about the Game of Thrones pantheon is that the old gods and lord of light are clearly real entities but I can't tell if the new gods are just make believe or just really bad at playing the game of gaining new converts.
Just caught up with everything.
It certainly felt rushed, but I kind of expected that going in. The broader scheme of things actually played out nicely. I can't wait to see how these scenes play out in the books.
Bran as king, Mad Queen Dany, Jon's tragic decision at the end. Loved all three of these ideas. Arya being the one to kill the Night King, too.
Had a lot of problems with some of the writing. "She's my queen" being parroted over and over by characters who in any other season would be second guessing the hell out of this person by now. Jaime making weird contradictory decisions as is now the norm for him in the show. Dany's reason for roasting King's Landing needing a lot more outright explanation.
Overall, I enjoyed it quite a bit. I had tempered expectations going in, though. I knew it was never going to be "as good" as the early seasons because it was working from an outline rather than a completed story.
It certainly felt rushed, but I kind of expected that going in. The broader scheme of things actually played out nicely. I can't wait to see how these scenes play out in the books.
Bran as king, Mad Queen Dany, Jon's tragic decision at the end. Loved all three of these ideas. Arya being the one to kill the Night King, too.
Had a lot of problems with some of the writing. "She's my queen" being parroted over and over by characters who in any other season would be second guessing the hell out of this person by now. Jaime making weird contradictory decisions as is now the norm for him in the show. Dany's reason for roasting King's Landing needing a lot more outright explanation.
Overall, I enjoyed it quite a bit. I had tempered expectations going in, though. I knew it was never going to be "as good" as the early seasons because it was working from an outline rather than a completed story.
Absolutely.
Previously, I felt like every plot occurrence was the result of characters being themselves. Their natural decisions, actions, and abilities lead to conflict of the resolution of conflict.
This entire season it felt like characters were altered on a whim in order to get them in position to hit certain plot points. As a result, their decisions, actions, and abilities feel like they are all over the place.
always he found the gold yielding before the coal
Although it's white in the case of Jon I guess.
Wasn't his half brother a traditional Targ looking baby, but his half sister Dornish looking? Maybe the Dragon juice also operates on a coin flip lol.
The Today Explained podcast episode for 5/17 and the ending is phenomenal.
Todd VanDerWerff has some really great insight to pop culture shows in general.
Also, the vocal version of the GoT theme played at the end of the last episode was fantastic. It was such a good cap to what could have been an incredible ending.
Todd VanDerWerff has some really great insight to pop culture shows in general.
Also, the vocal version of the GoT theme played at the end of the last episode was fantastic. It was such a good cap to what could have been an incredible ending.
No, it's dumb as shit. Tyrion was involved in pretty much every major political event. It's impossible not to mention him.
Haha, yeah this is spot on. This was so lame. Everything after Jon stabbing Daenerys was awful.
Just when I thought GoT couldn't get any worse...the finale. Where to begin?
• Pete the Dragon
• Tyrion usurping the Master of War to no consequence
• Bran. BRAN.
• The council sequence
• Making Jon Snow a pussy
• Every useless character arc
• The West of Westeros spin-off garbage w/Arya
• Thinly-veiled Democracy underpinnings
• The Bilbo Baggins ending
Fuck this show. It deserves the 4/10 its getting on IMDb. I haven't yelled so much at my television since the Cubs won the World Series (only then, I was happy).
• Pete the Dragon
• Tyrion usurping the Master of War to no consequence
• Bran. BRAN.
• The council sequence
• Making Jon Snow a pussy
• Every useless character arc
• The West of Westeros spin-off garbage w/Arya
• Thinly-veiled Democracy underpinnings
• The Bilbo Baggins ending
Fuck this show. It deserves the 4/10 its getting on IMDb. I haven't yelled so much at my television since the Cubs won the World Series (only then, I was happy).
For all the fuss people are making about the water bottle in the episode, it's odd that not many seemed to notice the distracting bulge on one of the Unsullied as they escorted Tyrion. So maybe they don't take the pillar...
If there's anything to take away from Sam's time at the Citadel, it's that the maesters don't know as much as they pretend to.
If there's anything to take away from Sam's time at the Citadel, it's that the maesters don't know as much as they pretend to.
I'm really surprised that so many people aren't getting this. People are frequently written out of history. My generation learned about Florence Nightingale at school, but only in relation to her legendary status on the battlefields of Crimea. It took me decades to catch up with her seminal work in epidemiology and data representation, and her reforms of nursing, which changed the practice of public hygiene forever. She was far more than just "the lady with the lamp."
Btw...you know the crazy thing about this season? I just realized that Bran never really interacts/speaks with Dany outside of him warning her that the NK has her dragon. Like I'm shocked she never goes to Bran and Sam to demand the proof of Jon's legitimacy. Then Bran could say the Sun, Moon and Stars line that Drogo always said to freak her out. Like how did you not have those two together onscreen after one quick convo.
Bran may be the last King to rule the 6 Kingdoms tbh considering his potential longevity. The last one lived over a thousand years and had to be killed.
As I've been saying. He could transition Westeros into a democracy by the end of his reign.
Most people don't even know the full story behind his death in the show. Ian McElhinney was a known fan of the books and knew that his character wouldn't die that early into the show.
He wrote a letter to D&D explaining how it doesn't make any sense but they still killed him off.
Later at convention D&D mentioned an actor sending them a letter about their decision to kill off his character and said "it made us want to kill him off even more"
Agreed. Seriously unearned. He could easily have been an outcast maester like Qyburn. Though to be honest, Sam should have died at Winterfell.
It isn't but it's literally magic bloodline. Every Baratheon has black hair and blue eyes.
He spent most of his time at the citadel emptying bedpans. His chain is made out of his plot armor.
It makes no sense at all. There is no theory that could explain it. D&D just put it in there for a cheap sitcom laugh. Nothing more.
I missed that Pod the Rod was in the Kingsguard. I wonder if they still take a vow of celibacy.
I kind of like the finale the more I think about it. I was disappointed and depressed at the time because of Daenerys's fate, but overall I like how open-ended the series was left.
The more I think about it the worse the small council scene gets. I actually think it's the worst scene in the entire season, disgusting itself as comic relief.
Tyrion in particular getting left out of the book is a direct slap to everything his character meant to the story. Everything he did, everything he meant, everything we were taught a out him, all of it thrown away for a cheap snicker.
Tyrion in particular getting left out of the book is a direct slap to everything his character meant to the story. Everything he did, everything he meant, everything we were taught a out him, all of it thrown away for a cheap snicker.
And yet you still knew who she was.
Furthermore it's a huge history book spanning only a few years about one continent, it is absurd that Tyrion isn't even mentioned. This isn't a history of the entire world, it's hyper-focused on one short era.
Not in the show. TER in the show was over 1,000 so it's show canon that Bran can live that long now