Mike Double U

Member
Oct 25, 2017
414
Kalamazoo, Michigan
...the vast majority of your gameplay in BotW consists of literally holding a direction on the stick for traversal, be that walking or sprinting about, climbing, gliding or whatever.

It's almost like it's a video game...

2.0
 

eso76

Prophet of Truth
Member
Dec 8, 2017
8,240
Yeah, tbh i'm not sure where he's getting the pilgrimage sim from, once it's revealed that all he saw was a cutscene and the same gameplay snippet we all saw.
That's the premise, but where would all the stuff we've seen in previous trailers fit in the walking simulator scenario ?

Not that I would mind it being just that, since it looks like HK made sure to include some "gameplay" in the walking aspect.
 

adumb

Banned
Aug 17, 2019
548
Is it time to start misusing the word 'pretentious' in an attempt to keep holding video games back because we don't care about it as a medium we just want our lame hobby validated or...
 

____

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,737
Miami, FL
I think it had a chance to stick the landing if it actually had an ending, but because of the complete breakdown of Kojipro near the tail end of development any chance it had evaporated. The final mission of the game just being the prologue again with like 40 seconds of extra footage at the end was such a bad way to go out.
It was horrifying to conclude such a series like that. I'll never forgive Konami, Kojima, their pets and anyone else involved.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
118,061
It was horrifying to conclude such a series like that. I'll never forgive Konami, Kojima, their pets and anyone else involved.

There's a lot to hate about MGSV. VOCAL CHORD PARASITES ad nauseum, Quiet's entire existence, the weird, weird shit with Paz, Skull Face being casually disposed of like halfway through the game, the complete and utter lack of a second half...

The gameplay is just so damn good it kind of bridges over most of my hatred. I've never had a game like that before where I hate the narrative so much but enjoyed the core gameplay to such an absurd degree. I miss those mechanics, and I'm so mad we're never going to see a successor to them.
 

Everywhere

Banned
Jun 12, 2019
2,104
I'm more curious than hyped.

Can't be hyped for a game we know nothing about. So far it's more like a $60 movie ticket.
 

ultima786

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,711
Yeah, I'm out. Zero interest in just walking around and turning on a bunch of comm towers. It's like the worst parts of every Ubisoft game but the whole game.

No thanks, Kojima.
You are constantly hyperbolic. If you're out, you're out, and maybe stay out? But chances are you'll probably realize you jumped the gun in judging this game Without enough knowledge.

I actually agree with many who say that Kojima has been too slow to reveal the gameplay loop. It is mostly to blame for hyperbolic hottakes like Planetsmasher's. But he said clearly during gamescom that he's just showing "a little bit of gameplay" at gamescom and more to come in TGS. Plus, enough people who have seen it were impressed enough by it to praise it. So I'm gonna hold off on being too critical until I know what is going on on this game.

Again, not justifying kojima's mysteriousness, but also not appreciating these jumpy hottakes.
 

Embedded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
616
There's a lot to hate about MGSV. VOCAL CHORD PARASITES ad nauseum, Quiet's entire existence, the weird, weird shit with Paz, Skull Face being casually disposed of like halfway through the game, the complete and utter lack of a second half...

The vocal chord parasites were meh, but the whole "language connect us" thing was interesting. If i am not mistaken, the parasites where not mentioned in the trailers but the importance of language was. I liked the idea that the villain was going to use language to achieve his goal.

Quiet sucked hard and she had no place at all in the game.

That weird Paz sequences were good. It added to the story and it all made sense in the end when you learn that you are not BB, your brain is all fucked up thanks to Zero, Ocelot and the pieces of her body that are embedded within you.
I liked that a lot.

I believe that if we had the complete game it would make sense for skullface to die so early in the game.
The Phantom Pain is not just about the limbs that they lost but the pain they still feel even after having killed the enemy.
During the second half of the game the enemy is you and i believe we were supposed to see how BB became a demon.

MGSV was never finished, just like peace day never came...
 

____

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,737
Miami, FL
There's a lot to hate about MGSV. VOCAL CHORD PARASITES ad nauseum, Quiet's entire existence, the weird, weird shit with Paz, Skull Face being casually disposed of like halfway through the game, the complete and utter lack of a second half...

The gameplay is just so damn good it kind of bridges over most of my hatred. I've never had a game like that before where I hate the narrative so much but enjoyed the core gameplay to such an absurd degree. I miss those mechanics, and I'm so mad we're never going to see a successor to them.

I agree to a degree, but I was so mad about the story and the voice acting and the "ending" and the 2nd half, and the fact that you are venom™ that I played it once and never came back to it. First MGS game I've ever done that with.
 

Violet

Alt account
Banned
Feb 7, 2019
3,263
dc
MGSV was way better than MGS3, happy to see those with bad taste in games not buy Death Stranding and let us true geniuses enjoy in peace
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,005
London
The point was, 5 minutes of traversal in BOTW can involve a whole lot of things that even such a 5 minute gameplay vid well demonstrates while in this DS vid (that THEY SPECIFICALLY CHOSE AS THE GAMEPLAY REVEAL TRAILER, so don't blame us when it looked boring) that 5 minutes was spent walking (slowly) up a short segment of an eventless, NPC-less, POI-less mountainside. While you can spend 5 minutes climbing in BOTW, that takes you from, like, the bottom of Mt. Doom right to the top of it (and besides, I already said climbing is the most boring thing in BOTW) Or you'd be halfway through Hyrule on horseback in five minutes. In DS that took the player, like, 50 meters up the mountain (and down). And all of the environments we've seen so far have looked very empty. Hardly like BOTW that has ruins, shrines, villages, enemy camps, side-quest sites, ancient death robots hellbent on killing you etc. sprinkled everywhere.

On foot traversal perhaps isn't as simple (though I didn't really see anything complex in DS's on foot traversal, if anything the glider, shield-boarding down the hill, stamina meter etc. are more in favor of BOTW than anything we've seen of DS), but it is slow as fuck, which can be a kind of a big negative if that is the speed we are spending traversing the vast world at for large portions of the time (and yes, I know there is/might be a motorcycle or somesuch, but I assume you can't drive that up a mountainside or through some of the rougher terrain).

I don't see why you repeat those non-walky elements to me. I already acknowledged they'll be in the game in the very post you quoted. The fear at this point (in addition to Kojima's horrible treatment of his female characters that seems to continue with The Mother, The Rape Victim and The Damsel in Distress, and the elementary philosophy in his games) is that the walking sim-ish parts will take up too much of the game considering how boring the traversal SO FAR has looked (it has looked exactly as slow & boring from the first trailers that showed it, so it's not based just on this vid). If we have to walk around in that manner for 20 minutes, only to get to watch Geoff Keighley's face and listen to shitty dialogue, and then travel another 15 minutes and maybe then getting some stealth section where we have to avoid monsters at night/in the rain, only to then have to travel for 20 minutes again, that doesn't seem like it will make for a very entertaining video game. And notice the _IF_. If it's not at all like that, great, catastrophe averted. If it is, then this might be a fairly miserable experience a lot of the time.

I'm not claiming any absolute truths here. This is just my impression so far. BOTW looked immediately fun in trailers that showed exploration & all the different things we'd be doing in the world. It all seemed fairly fast-paced & exciting. So far DS has been a whole lot of WTF story stuff, some clunky human enemy interactions (the clip at E3 where the MC was trying to run from some humans looked silly), some possibly tense stealth sections, a boss fight and a whole lot of slow-ass walking/climbing in desolate environments. I'm not seeing the ruins of a scattered humanity that could offer some intriquing exploration in any pictures showing the landscape of DS's world. Just wilderness that you travel oh-so-very-slowly.

It was a character spotlight trailer made specifically for Gamescom and Mr Keighley. Kojima confirmed that we'll see a lengthy gameplay video at TGS this year. Over half of this 6 minute video was not about walking or climbing. There was a POI on the mountain in the Ludens Fan container.

Sure you can climb MT. Doom in BotW but don't you remember the preparation involved for taking on such a task? That's also where the fun lies. I believe Death Stranding will have similar challenges.

Do note that Death Stranding also has what appears to be a motorbike of sort, I'm sure players will be able to travel great distances on this vehicle.

We have seen what seems like an enemy camp, dilapidated building, underworld, underwater, etc. Every single combat shrine in BotW looks and plays the same, afaik.

Death Stranding has BTs (other world creatures), Mules and Homo Demens (militant separatist). Death Stranding's landscape changes in real-time. Grass and plants die and grow around the player.

Glider, and shield boarding should not be considered on foot traversal mechanics. I'm not sure why you bought these up. Death Stranding has balancing mechanics on terrain, in wind, climbing, running down, crossing rivers, etc.

We currently don't know if there's additional equipment for traversing in DS. But I highly doubt we've seen everything it has to offer as far as traversal is concerned.

You are incessantly stating how boring it might be for one to traverse in this game but all of this is based on nothing but a short character spotlight. I find your opinion rather rediculous - why not stay neutral until you've seen something substantial?

Kojima's female treatment is disappointing, there's no doubt about this. But we weren't even discussing this aspect. Did you bring it up to score a point or something?

E3 2018 trailer was also a showcase of different environments and delivery tools. You probably failed to recognise this, and are stuck on just one aspect which is part of almost every open world game; walking.

The third part of your post choke is full of assumptions. And all of it is negative.

BotW first showcase was link riding on a horse in the woods. Imagine if I based my critique on that one segments, and assumed the rest. That's what you're doing. Let kojima show his game at TGS, if you don't like the gameplay loop then that's fine. But try to stay neutral on this game until then.

What was silly about MC dodging and running away from the mules?

The way you are reducing some of these gameplay and explorative elements found in Death Stranding is simply baffling, all things considered.

You'll see more soon enough.
 

eso76

Prophet of Truth
Member
Dec 8, 2017
8,240
Am I the only who unironically liked MGS V story?

It's not bad; the whole language/identity theme is a clever premise and there are many interesting references to literature, cinema and music.
It's the small devices that don't really work imho; the parasite killing anyone who speaks english is a bit too far fetched for my tastes, for example.

The problem, though, is how most of the story is told; it's hard to even piece a summary together because of how it's presented and i'm pretty sure a lot of people don't really know the actual story being told here and just picked up the final twist and the lack of a satisfying conclusion.
Previous games were very good at presenting their incredibly (and sometimes unnecessarily) convoluted stories in bits simple enough to digest and, above all, in entertaining ways. Even if you missed the intricacies and the numerous sub-plots, there was still a lot to chew.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
Sounds 100% up my alley. I like exploration and foot travel in games, I like the themes of Death Stranding, and I like spontaneous injections of sci-fi weirdness and heightened style. This game looks so awesome.
 
Oct 26, 2017
16,462
Mushroom Kingdom
Yeah, I'm out. Zero interest in just walking around and turning on a bunch of comm towers. It's like the worst parts of every Ubisoft game but the whole game.

No thanks, Kojima.

I dunno about narrowing all of what we have seen down to that.

One can say that BOTW is a Ubisoft "comm tower"-fest, while partly true, that would just make you look bad.

edit: wtf don't know how i ended up in this thread quoting that post btw. Thought this was the gameplay thread