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NioA

Member
Dec 16, 2019
3,737
Sara is not good.

The nature of her buff being so short and parts of her kit tied up in other characters being electro is just too limiting, like they think an all electro team is viable or something. She's another bad 4*. She won't be as bad as Xinyan, unless she too comes out broken and buggy (Xinyan still isn't fixed btw), but she's just not good. Even the original mistranslated 10s was dubiously short but she's literally worth less and harder to use than a Dragon Tails Barabara.

They just aren't making good 4*s any more, and I think expecting any of them at this point to match up to launch 4*s or Diona is just expecting too much.

Sayu had some hype around her rolling but when you actually look and analyze her kit, beyond the novelty of the gimmick... she's not actually particularly good. A field hogging support/sub-DPS/healer just isn't going to scale well, its the same problem Kokomi's bewildering kit is soon to run into as a massive problem. Rosaria is basically a worse option vs. Chongyun or Kaeya, and not to even mention Diona completely running circles around everyone. Yanfei is like alright but she's not all that good and her resource management is a struggle. And Xinyan is just terrible.

The four post Diona 4*s so far have just not been worth much beyond novelty. Sara is another to that pile unless she receives some serious buffs, and I don't see this trend ending. So few people care for or chase these 4*s, and to MHY making them good is basically just losing money on shiny hyper expensive 5*s they could instead sell for much more.
I totally agree with Xynian and I can't say anything about Sayu and Sara, but I think Rosaria and Yanfei have their niche in which they work extremely well. Rosaria in particular works better as a sub cryo dps than Chongyun: sure, Chongyun's burst hits harder, but Rosaria gives a crit rate bonus to the whole party and her burst applies cryo constantly (which is great in freeze comps). Chongyun helps better as a support when C2 and provides a - 15% bonus to burst and skills cooldowns, but that's, besides the obvious fact that his skill is unusable with non cryo dps.
Yanfei is called budget Klee pretty much everywhere, and being a pyro dps with a dmg output comparable to a 5* is definitely something worth mentioning. While they clearly won't make another busted character like Bennett, I feel like they hit the right balance with these two and while I understand that Sayu isn't that good, being another healer is always a plus since there's so few of them. I really hope Sara will be on par in the right comp, love her design.
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,317
Too many people count multiple constellation 4 stars when the majority of players won't have that. I don't give a fuck about min/maxing in this game at this point since the content doesn't really require it outside of lame final abyss floors.

Sayu and Yanfei are fun af to play and that's what really matters. Sara remains to be seen.
 

Csr

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,048
Obviously this is an unpopular opinion, and I'm not trying to say he's bad by any means. I still use him alongside Ning. He's just not someone who's first on the team selection list anymore (for me).

I'd say it is an unpopular opinion in this thread, discussions between theory crafters that I have seen usually reach the same conclusion as jinjinx.
 

xendless

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Jan 23, 2019
11,246
The biggest problem with Jinx's hypothesis however is that it assumes a few things. 1) That you will dodge every hit and 2) That you will not get hit by elemental reactions or be otherwise affected by floor debuffs. Dodging, over the course of a fight, greatly affects your DPS. If your DPS is high enough that you can beat a floor within 20 seconds or so, then this point is moot, because you won't have to dodge that much. BUT, if you aren't clearing floors this quickly, you will likely be dodging quite a bit, and any time you are dodging or otherwise not actively hitting the enemy, you are losing DPS. Zhongli alleviates this problem. With his shield, you do not need to dodge, improving your overall DPS uptime, as well as allowing you to play more risky where you otherwise might not.

Zhongli is the hyper carry carry
Ofc you wouldn't put him in a quickswap team
You put him with a Xiao, a Eula, a Hu Tao that needs to be on the field doing damage for as long as they can
I believe also Yoimiya, a character that loses damage the more they dodge due to needing to stand still to get the powerful 5th hit off
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
I'm still just so curious what the over under will be in regards to people's take on Raiden's power level. Will we get folks complaining, will they be happy, will we ever see another Zhong Li situation?
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Sort of. The "endgame" is a dps check, and (C0) Zhongli adds minimal dps (10-20% resistance shread). Which means, outside of Geo comps, you only really want to take him when you're already hitting that dps check with your other three characters. If that is the case then having Zhongli as your 4th makes the run more comfortable as you rarely need to dodge or heal. But ultimately there are other units that offer a similar amount of utility while offering way more damage potential. Between Bennett's healing, and Xingqiu/Beidou's damage reduction and resistance to interruption, there's not really a reason to use Zhongli unless you want, and are in a place where you can have that extra comfort. This is what I believe he meant.

The reason I came to this conclusion was because I took Zhongli against today's trial quest and I realised that for me, he just didn't add anything. I then changed to my default Bennett Xingqiu Keqing team and cleared it fine.

Obviously this is an unpopular opinion, and I'm not trying to say he's bad by any means. I still use him alongside Ning. He's just not someone who's first on the team selection list anymore (for me).
You miss the point of him. When you have Zhong on your team you no longer have to dodge, react, take precautions. You're gaining so much more dps than you can calculate.
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,433
I'm still just so curious what the over under will be in regards to people's take on Raiden's power level. Will we get folks complaining, will they be happy, will we ever see another Zhong Li situation?

She doesn't look like a main DPS that's up there with Ganyu / Hu Tao / Eula. It doesn't look like she's meant to be that. The people that see her in the trailer and want her to be that are probably going to be the most disappointed.

But she does look like an insane main DPS booster for my Eula. That's the whole reason I'm dumping every primo to get her and maybe her weapon, if I pull her early.
 

ekka4shiki

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,952
Sara's kit is kinda too complex to pre-TC. Like you need to know exactly about how her mechanic actually works as if it wasn't confusing enough already. People also more excited about Raiden or (doomposting) about Kokomi as they're the 5*.

There's some real concern about Sara's kit clunkiness tho, so yeah.
 

SixtyFourBlades

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,864
I'm still just so curious what the over under will be in regards to people's take on Raiden's power level. Will we get folks complaining, will they be happy, will we ever see another Zhong Li situation?
At this point, when it comes to Raiden, I'm like Chrono with Yoimiya. I don't care how good she is (although I'm pretty sure she will be), I'm pulling for her because I want her meta be damned.

Based on multipliers alone though, she will have that small burst window where she hits like a truck.
 

Alkez

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,558
Who were you even running him with?
In today's quest? The same team but I had Zhongli instead of Bennett. It's what I was using yesterday but I genuinely can't remember why.
You miss the point of him. When you have Zhong on your team you no longer have to dodge, react, take precautions. You're gaining so much more dps than you can calculate.
As I've already articulated, when you have "resistance to interruption" you only really need to dodge "heavy" hits, so that contribution is not as great.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
She doesn't look like a main DPS that's up there with Ganyu / Hu Tao / Eula. It doesn't look like she's meant to be that. The people that see her in the trailer and want her to be that are probably going to be the most disappointed.

But she does look like an insane main DPS booster for my Eula. That's the whole reason I'm dumping every primo to get her and maybe her weapon, if I pull her early.
She's going to have insane off field capability for sure.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
In today's quest? The same team but I had Zhongli instead of Bennett. It's what I was using yesterday but I genuinely can't remember why.

As I've already articulated, when you have "resistance to interruption" you only really need to dodge "heavy" hits, so that contribution is not as great.
You're still taking damage.
 

LordRuyn

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,921
It will ONLY have its main stats on PC.

The secondary effect of the weapon (which is like... dealing cryo damage increases normal and charged attack damage) wouldn't work on PC. At that point, you're basically using a 3* weapon that is JUST its base attack and secondary stat (ATK % or whatever).

It essentially makes the weapon pretty useless.
I see, but as long as it's usable on PS4 I guess I can use it there if I want to play on PS4 for some reason, if I can go back and forth that is. Otherwise on PC it will mostly serve for screenshots and the aesthetics of the character.

I totally agree with Xynian and I can't say anything about Sayu and Sara, but I think Rosaria and Yanfei have their niche in which they work extremely well. Rosaria in particular works better as a sub cryo dps than Chongyun: sure, Chongyun's burst hits harder, but Rosaria gives a crit rate bonus to the whole party and her burst applies cryo constantly (which is great in freeze comps). Chongyun helps better as a support when C2 and provides a - 15% bonus to burst and skills cooldowns, but that's, besides the obvious fact that his skill is unusable with non cryo dps.
Yanfei is called budget Klee pretty much everywhere, and being a pyro dps with a dmg output comparable to a 5* is definitely something worth mentioning. While they clearly won't make another busted character like Bennett, I feel like they hit the right balance with these two and while I understand that Sayu isn't that good, being another healer is always a plus since there's so few of them. I really hope Sara will be on par in the right comp, love her design.

I agree with you on this. I have Yanfei C2 as my main Pyro DPS (mostly cause I am lacking pyro DPS units) and while I have a shit weapon on her for now till I get the Pearl from the next BP, she still does tons of damage. She has her downsides but boy does she dish it out when it counts. I don't have the others to comment on but I do have to say, damage should not be the only metric. Yanfei is a blast to play for me, I am really having a lot of fun with her and Sayu looks like even more fun from what I saw in the Trial. Not every unit needs to be amazing, sometimes serviceable is good enough. I recall reading an article Mike Rosewater published in 2002 about why "bad" MTG cards are made and exist, I am often reminded of it when situations like this one come up. That however isn't an excuse for pushing out the door a product that is badly designed, like Yoimiya's kit seems to be. Some characters will be more versatile than others, that's inevitable.

I haven't been playing the game long so I might have gotten something wrong in the above, feel free to correct me if so.
 

Deluxera

Member
Mar 13, 2020
2,711
Would you say that the Battle Pass is a good investment ? Also if you purchase the battle pass do you retroactively unlock the rewards from the levels you passed ?
 

LordRuyn

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,921
Would you say that the Battle Pass is a good investment ? Also if you purchase the battle pass do you retroactively unlock the rewards from the levels you passed ?
Yes and yes. Just finished my first ever battlepass yesterday for Genshin and you unlock all past rewards as well. Just make sure to chose the weapon you need based on what you already have in terms of weapons and whether or not the character you need the weapon for would actually benefit from it.

The materials and mora you get from it alone are a massive if you have a bunch of stuff to level. Came in clutch for me, that's for damn sure.
 

Alkez

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,558
You're still taking damage.
As I detailed before, between the damage reduction from Xingqiu and/or Beidou, and the healing of Bennett, taking 0 damage has less value.

Btw did you read my follow up post? Because I did agree about dps uptime stuff so I don't think it's a case of me missing the point lol. I fully understand. It's just a case of "he provides less value for me".
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,317
Would you say that the Battle Pass is a good investment ? Also if you purchase the battle pass do you retroactively unlock the rewards from the levels you passed ?
BP is only good when you're at endgame and don't want to farm books/mora for a month just to get 2-3 new characters leveled up. Also best to buy when you've actually hit level 50 BP.

The weapons are good too to fill in any categories you're sorely lacking in.
 

tinthoh

Member
Jan 13, 2018
966
All of Liyuean playable characters will make an appearance and some NPC's. One of them is
U30uSFu.png

 
OP
OP
Tyaren

Tyaren

Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
25,323
Llove the "subject to change" bit the "leakers" add to every "leak" now. XD
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
As I detailed before, between the damage reduction from Xingqiu and/or Beidou, and the healing of Bennett, taking 0 damage has less value.

Btw did you read my follow up post? Because I did agree about dps uptime stuff so I don't think it's a case of me missing the point lol. I fully understand. It's just a case of "he provides less value for me".
Yeah i just saw the other post of yours.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Would you say that the Battle Pass is a good investment ? Also if you purchase the battle pass do you retroactively unlock the rewards from the levels you passed ?
As long as you complete it each month, yes. You get so many materials, extra pulls and resin fillers for $10. It's impossibly hard for me to pass it up as an avid player.
 

Chrono

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,637
At this point, when it comes to Raiden, I'm like Chrono with Yoimiya. I don't care how good she is (although I'm pretty sure she will be), I'm pulling for her because I want her meta be damned.

Based on multipliers alone though, she will have that small burst window where she hits like a truck.
Only way to play, IMO.

I'm the same with Raiden, and also Yae whenever she's released. Pulling for both, even if they're electro and despite that element having severe issues, I need em' both. Thankfully I have enough saved for two full pities (or will at least, once 2.2 concludes) so I don't need to worry there.

Disclaimer:

By two full pities I mean 75 pulls x 4, since I very rarely go beyond the soft pity cap for my 5*. If it does take more than that, I'll "correct" it with Starglitter.)

All of Liyuean playable characters will make an appearance and some NPC's. One of them is
U30uSFu.png


Xinyan's time to shine!
 

Busaiku

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,079
Inazuma celebrations will include Raiden Shogun and you know it.
Though I guess in this situation, Kokomi/Gorou/Thoma/Kazuha would be the terrorists.
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,433
i couldnt do okuden 3 no matter how hard i tried omg

I beat Okuden 5 without any trouble using Ayaka/Zhongli/Xingqiu/Ganyu, but I'm still struggling with Okuden 4, even subbing Venti in. Those samurai keep dashing out of my killzones.

I've just been smashing the Okudens with my same OP Unga Bunga squad. Zhongli is the MVP as usual. Once Baal takes Fischl's spot, I'm expecting some more insanity out of Eula's bursts in future challenge events.





 

OhmygoditsJROD

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,500
I just hope Yae uses a sword instead of a catalyst. Otherwise her change from Honkai to Genshin is the biggest downgrade in the history of downgrades.
 

Alkez

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,558
I just hope Yae uses a sword instead of a catalyst. Otherwise her change from Honkai to Genshin is the biggest downgrade in the history of downgrades.
But what if she used a catalyst that acted as a lightning saber or something lol?

I feel like Catalyst's could easily be malleable energy weapon type of things tbh.
I forgot it was my birthday until I logged in and got some cake and TWO!!!!!! fragile resin... lol.....
Ah the joys of getting older haha. Happy birthday :)
Watch Yae be an electro healer.
Ngl, I would be okay with this just because it would give me hope that she would be the buff electro needs. Would be shitty that it depends on a character but they're clearly not going to do anything otherwise.
 

Mr.Fletcher

Member
Nov 18, 2017
9,831
UK
Well... I got an ATK Shimenawa's Reminiscence cup with both crit rate and crit damage. My electro cup can sit there for when I need it.

That will have to do for Raiden. I will four-set the other slots.

I feel like I've asked this every other day for a month, but are we closer to knowing what the sweet spot for her is in terms of ER?

I have both an ATK and ER sands. The latter pumps me up to 190% ER - before counting Baal's ascension stat and The Catch (so another 78%).

My ATK sands, which thankfully has 11% ER on it, obviously gives me 46% more attack.

So I'm either looking at 270% ER or 230% ER.


And don't you dare tell me I have to go back into that domain!
 

Sensei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,677
i would love an electro healer tbh. i pretty much only use electro for superconduct and if i had an electro character that could also heal, it would open up my team flexibility
 

ekka4shiki

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,952
Regarding Sara compability with Raiden, I think you're not supposed to rely on Sara E to buff Raiden since it's mechanic sounds clunky af anyway. You use Sara Q since it can also give ATK (and crit dmg with C6) buff to active character. Yes, her burst is expensive so probably not practical to spam that on other team. But Raiden can handle that.

Maybe.
 

Magneto

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,449
Forget about bald heroes, the new trend is to see them dismembered

t6abg0y5b5j71.png


Childe's torso is really detailed compared to other characters, i guess he's ready for a shritless costume ?

biwk34y5b5j71.png


(2.1 can't come soon enough, i'm bored)
 
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