George Lucas defends the prequels, says Star Wars was always meant for kids
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The prequels, for me, are still shit.
The sometimes bordering on racist alien designs are shit.
The dialogue is shit.
The chemistry between Natalie and Hayden is shit.
The lightsaber battles all being flippy nonsense is shit.
Having Chewbacca a gratuitous cameo is shit.
Yoda using a lightsaber like 5 year old having too many Skittles is shit.
Yoda and Palpatine using lightsabers at all is shit.
Anakin's turn in RotS is shit.
For a more serious mindset, I think one of the fundamental flaws, story wise, is the 10 year gap between 1 and 2, as I think it subsequently meant there was less time to justify Anakins turn to the dark side, which is the whole premise of the damn trilogy.
The sometimes bordering on racist alien designs are shit.
The dialogue is shit.
The chemistry between Natalie and Hayden is shit.
The lightsaber battles all being flippy nonsense is shit.
Having Chewbacca a gratuitous cameo is shit.
Yoda using a lightsaber like 5 year old having too many Skittles is shit.
Yoda and Palpatine using lightsabers at all is shit.
Anakin's turn in RotS is shit.
For a more serious mindset, I think one of the fundamental flaws, story wise, is the 10 year gap between 1 and 2, as I think it subsequently meant there was less time to justify Anakins turn to the dark side, which is the whole premise of the damn trilogy.
Generative AI has also been used in engineering for decades and likely other industries. None of this is new what's new is that it got good enough for the condume to use and get decent results.
The dialogue was always shit. It's not for nothing that Harrison Ford lost it with Lucas once and told him, "You can write this shit George, but you can't say it". The OT is infamous for being laughed at for having ridiculous and nonsense dialogue. It was one of the more common critiques against it back in the day, especially by film critics.
I understand not liking it but it does make sense. Yoda is tiny and he needs to nullify the disadvantage that his height puts him at. That means getting on the level of opponents when fighting them. I suppose they could have had him more grounded and focusing on removing his opponents limbs, but I did notice that Dooku and Palpatine both had to look and focus downwards quite a lot in their duels with him, so he is already trying that.
Honestly I loved it when I first saw it. Above all I was actually intimidated when this small green creature, that so far we'd only seen move as slowly as his great age would imply, suddenly started screaming and leaping at his opponent. That's a different kind of duelling and I thought it worked well for who Yoda was and the disadvantage that is his height. Using the in-universe explanation of his adapting Form IV lightsaber combat works perfectly as well.
Why? Is it only because they didn't have them in the original films? I don't see that as being a valid reason for them wielding weapons is a shit thing to happen. Yoda lost his and lived on a world where he had no materials to make another, and if he was discovered he knew he had no chance of survival. So that makes sense. Palpatine lost his and now all of the Jedi are dead, certainly the most powerful of them, and those who remain are scattered throughout the galaxy, running and hiding, being hunted and pursued by Vader and all Imperial forces. Palpatine isn't in danger of being confronted by anyone. He doesn't need his lightsaber any more, and it's already shown that he's far stronger in the Force than he is a duellist. It makes sense to me.
Yeah, agreed, and with all of your other points.
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You realize he's talking about Star Wars as a whole, not just the PT?
Pointing to Watership is a perfect example because their not kids movies but family movies. Martin Rosen in fact, the Director of Watership Down was in fact VERY frustrated by parents that complained to him about his film being a bad "kids movie" because of the violence and because those parents automatically assume animated - kids movie despite neither the book or film every hiding the fact it was made for adults and kids in mind, the poster kind of makes that clear:
Family and Kids movies are two very different things, something that seems to get forgotten on the web which makes the film student in me cry (especially when I see elitists use it against the MCU or whatever is popular). Kids movies are made specifically for kids (which as pointed out, doesn't = bad, I've seen plenty of kids movies and shows, that out emotionally impact "mature" adult works) while family movies are made for everyone to enjoy which both the originals and the prequels work amazingly well at.
People keep bringing up the political intrigue of Prequel as a sign of them being bad kids movies, except it's pretty obvious that those scene (which are not as long as people make out) are meant for the adults first and foremost while being palatable enough that kids can get the basic idea, interspersed with action scenes that both the adults and parents in the audience as well as the kids will enjoy. Same with the extreme violence like the corpse of Owen and Beru or the bloody hand (followed by the sigh of 3PO burning Jawa corpses), none of that is what you'd make for kids movies.
George's Friend Steven Spielberg I'd say is a master of family movies, especially the 70s and 80s and Jurassic Park. Like Jurassic Park, Most kids are there to see the Dinosaurs, the chases etc and lets be honest, so are most of the adults; however JP is more than that as it lot of quiet scenes discussing the ethics of making Dinosaurs which are designed that kids will get the basic idea (especially use Mr DNA) but adults will fully get and enjoy. Same with Raiders of the Lost, or ET or Jaws.
Family movies are really hard to get right because you're trying to balance what would kids like with what would adults like without going too far in one direction.
Also I really just hate the "Prequels have too much politics" stuff because I don't think it's true (and feel the pushback at the time resulted in George cutting most of Padme's best scenes in Revenge of the Sith) but it kind of ignores the Originals were heavily political and had scenes like that:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnNSnJbjdws
Well said.
basically the average lore for some of my figures while i played with them
It's not just Star Wars either, THX1138, one of his earlier movies also suffers from this issue that only the altered version is available. Like this was to the point that Star Wars had it's addition to the National Achieves to be preserved delayed for years because he refused to give them anything but the special edition until he finally gave him; he actively did want the original versions preserved which is just baffling to me.
And you think kids can't handle these scenes?
Beheadings and school shootings. You know, it's a kids movie. Fun for the whole family!
I was like 10 when I watched Revenge of the Sith for the first time. And I LOVED the movie so much, I still consider it one of my favourites.
Many millennials watched stuff like Robocop, Terminator, Starship Troopers, etc. with their parents. The violence in Star Wars prequels is nowhere near that bad.
It's a movie about space wizards. Why is everyone so angry?
View: https://youtu.be/kodyAoM9854?si=dCKXvlRdDmVNDfu3
View: https://youtu.be/kodyAoM9854?si=dCKXvlRdDmVNDfu3
Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays
Within like the first ten minutes of Avengers Endgame, which had tons of kids watching, Thanos gets decapitated and his blood very specifically gets splattered on his daughter's face.
You realize a work being Fantasy, Sci-Fi or both doesn't make it a kids work right or are we really doing this archaic elitist mode of thinking now? You really think works like Foundation, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, Baldur's Gate, Dune (which also has space wizards) etc are "kids" works? That's incredibly narrow way of thinking about genres and shit on the many creatives who have made amazing adult sci-fi and fantasy works.
Also I'm not even sure what point you're even getting at here, someone ruining other people's fun and snobbish, yeah that's not exclusive to kids work; you get that shit with D&D role-playing sessions.
i was about to post this exact video, lol
still think the prequels were mostly bad
They're bad films with crappy dialogue, flat cinematography and poor acting. No need to defend them. I personally think most people that like them only do due to nostalgia and the memes.
Attack of the Clones was mid and the politics were a snooze fest, but I overall did enjoy the prequels as a kid.
#EndJarJarHate #EmbraceTheBombad
#EndJarJarHate #EmbraceTheBombad
Yeah these posts are weird to me. I constantly see Gen X'ers fondly remembering how dark kids media was in the 80s and 90s, and I certainly don't remember any backlash about the violence in these movies at the time. The original trilogy had planets getting blown up, overt depictions of slavery, luke getting his hand chopped off (and electrocuted). It's not like the prequel trilogy was uniquely violent, I saw worse stuff in Ocarina of Time at a much younger age for crying out loud.
The prequels were great. All three trilogies are. Even the entries I don't like are good in their own regard and I get why people love them.
And there's a reason you're seeing an overall change of opinion about the prequels, it's because all of us kids that grew up loving them are older and louder now. But that's also lead to some of the same toxicity that those fans got from the OT Stans towards the ST. So it's just a constant loop of toxicity really. People are just assholes and we as a world allow the assholes to be assholes.
And there's a reason you're seeing an overall change of opinion about the prequels, it's because all of us kids that grew up loving them are older and louder now. But that's also lead to some of the same toxicity that those fans got from the OT Stans towards the ST. So it's just a constant loop of toxicity really. People are just assholes and we as a world allow the assholes to be assholes.
It's a bit disingenuous to claim you know what the creator of something "really meant" more than the creator themselves. If he says it's a kid's movie, then it's a fucking kid's movie. Just because something isn't 100% sunshine and rainbows and cute little animals doesn't mean it can't still be a kid's movie.
I didn't much care for Jar-Jar either, but I fully understood what his purpose was, and I supported Lucas's decision for him to exist.
I didn't much care for Jar-Jar either, but I fully understood what his purpose was, and I supported Lucas's decision for him to exist.
Welp, George, this forum is filled with a lot of people who were young teens when that trilogy started coming out, and we don't view it as fondly as you'd expect.
It's actually as an adult in my late 30s, post ep.7-9, that I rewatched 1-3 and had more appreciation for what they were trying to do. It was at least a cohesive prequel trilogy.
It's actually as an adult in my late 30s, post ep.7-9, that I rewatched 1-3 and had more appreciation for what they were trying to do. It was at least a cohesive prequel trilogy.
As somebody who never watched Star Wars as a kid, upon seeing them as an adult (the OG and Prequels anyway - couldn't be bothered with anything else) it was immediately obvious to me that they were kids movies. The entire series is for children. I do think the powerful drug that is nostalgia understandably makes this borderline impossible to understand for those who grew up with these films but from an outsiders perspective this is not entertainment for grown-ups at all.
Loved them as a kid, and still thoroughly enjoy them today. Attack of Clones being a bit ehh though.
The dialogue is absolutely horrendous at times, and most of the subplots are pretty useless. But most of the art direction and design are the absolute best of the entire franchise, John Williams is absolutely on fire, and the memorable moments are among the best of the entire franchise as well. Luke stepping outside of his home as he watches the the dual sunset on Tatooine during A New Hope is probably among my favorite moments in the history of cinema. But other than that I think podracing, the Darth Maul lightsaber fight, the depth charges, Anakin Obi fight, the space combat at the start of III, and Obi and Qui-Gon having to escape the Trade Fedaration ship at the start of I are just peak Star Wars moments.
The entire package might be a bit hit or miss, but the highlights shine bright.
The dialogue is absolutely horrendous at times, and most of the subplots are pretty useless. But most of the art direction and design are the absolute best of the entire franchise, John Williams is absolutely on fire, and the memorable moments are among the best of the entire franchise as well. Luke stepping outside of his home as he watches the the dual sunset on Tatooine during A New Hope is probably among my favorite moments in the history of cinema. But other than that I think podracing, the Darth Maul lightsaber fight, the depth charges, Anakin Obi fight, the space combat at the start of III, and Obi and Qui-Gon having to escape the Trade Fedaration ship at the start of I are just peak Star Wars moments.
The entire package might be a bit hit or miss, but the highlights shine bright.
There's a generation out there that's younger than the demo of people still using web forums in 2024 and they do like the prequels and that's okay. Putting the prequels on trial again like it's still fifteen years ago is something the aging fandom's gotta learn to let go.
I mean, I enjoy plenty of things made for kids, but I can't say the excuse "but it's for kids" really makes the movies any better.
That said. I still like RotS a lot though, that movie was fun and I can see the "it's just a fun action movie aimed at kids" angle for just that one.
That said. I still like RotS a lot though, that movie was fun and I can see the "it's just a fun action movie aimed at kids" angle for just that one.
I'm sort of over this prequel redemption movement that's pretending that they're not bad films, which largely seems to be in response to the current state of Star Wars. You can grow up with a movie and still enjoy it as an adult, even if it's not a good movie. Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy, but you don't have to vehemently defend the movies and dismiss the legitimate flaws. I liked both trilogies as a kid, but as an adult the prequels did not hold up whereas the originals did (aside from Lucas's awful vandalism).
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I did love the prequels when I was young. I didn't watch the OT till I was older and honestly didn't really care for it
I always hated that excuse.
Like yeah, they're meant for kids, so what? Does that give you a free pass to half ass it because you don't have to respect kids as much? Cmon man.l
I also feel it's a "trying to have its cake and eat it too". Obviously he tried to have more mature themes in there as others have pointed that. I don't even hate the prequels but if you wanna divest of your art and act dismissive of its quality by saying "Whatever, it's just for kids" then you also don't get to act all huffy at people saying it's a piece of junk. Kids deserve your efforts too
Like yeah, they're meant for kids, so what? Does that give you a free pass to half ass it because you don't have to respect kids as much? Cmon man.l
I also feel it's a "trying to have its cake and eat it too". Obviously he tried to have more mature themes in there as others have pointed that. I don't even hate the prequels but if you wanna divest of your art and act dismissive of its quality by saying "Whatever, it's just for kids" then you also don't get to act all huffy at people saying it's a piece of junk. Kids deserve your efforts too
By that logic whenever a Ubisoft or other company game director or CEO declares their politically heavy game is "not political" we shouldn't ever question it or critique because their word is the law apparently.
George has flip flopped over the years and have said things that contradict themselves plus more importantly in this context and as pointed out, it's pretty obvious he's saying this to deflect from criticism and in a really shitty way that diminishes the work of actual writers and creators of good Children's media.
Even if we accept Star Wars are "kids" movies (they aren't their family films), how does that make any of the criticisms less valid? It doesn't, it only does if you assume kids movies are lesser art where the quality of the writing, acting, directing doesn't matter which is fucking shitty. I've met people who've written for children's media, my screenwriting lecturer had worked on both adult and children's media and worked as off on both, making sure the scripts he was producing were engaging, fun and just as provoking as any of the adult projects he worked.
It would fucking sting if the director or producer of those projects deflected criticism by going "hey it's just a kids show!" which is exactly the crap George is doing now. It's a slap in the face to people who worked their arses off and crunched (because let's not pretended there was a lot of crunching for those movies), it's a slap in the face to actors who did the best with what they got, it's a slap in the face to every creative of Children's and Family media who try to make great works and it's just a pathetic way to dismiss criticism.
I was in 6th grade when Phantom Menace came out. I was firmly obsessed with Star Wars for most of my life already, collecting toys, posters, etc, reading all the novels, rewatching the OT again and again and again (all three recorded off HBO on one VHS). Seeing the Special Editions in theaters was magical.
I loved The Phantom Menace. Darth Maul was cool. The space came/goat thing farted and it was funny. Jar Jar doing his Bill Cosby dentist impression was funny.
I didn't realize these movies were bad until Revenge of the Sith. I was so disappointed in how stupid Anakin's downfall actually was. At the end, after the "NOOOOOOOOOOOO" scene, I distinctly remember one of my friends saying "That's not James Earl Jones." Like, James Earl Jones would never.
I loved The Phantom Menace. Darth Maul was cool. The space came/goat thing farted and it was funny. Jar Jar doing his Bill Cosby dentist impression was funny.
I didn't realize these movies were bad until Revenge of the Sith. I was so disappointed in how stupid Anakin's downfall actually was. At the end, after the "NOOOOOOOOOOOO" scene, I distinctly remember one of my friends saying "That's not James Earl Jones." Like, James Earl Jones would never.
I think there's a difference between aiming for a general audience and including children, and setting the scope so wide that you are desperately trying to include toddlers in your target audience to the point where it makes the rest of the work suffer.
I don't think toddlers would have been very interested in the original trilogy because it was comparatively more geeky sci-fi type stuff than the prequel trilogy. In no way do Ewoks even compare to jarjar. I never tune out of the original trilogy when Ewoks scenes are happening the way I do basically every jarjar scene.
I don't think toddlers would have been very interested in the original trilogy because it was comparatively more geeky sci-fi type stuff than the prequel trilogy. In no way do Ewoks even compare to jarjar. I never tune out of the original trilogy when Ewoks scenes are happening the way I do basically every jarjar scene.
Interesting that it's PG. Was that made before PG-13 was a thing?
Kinda like the PG rated Jaws.
edit: yeah, Watership Down is 1978 and PG-13 was created in 1984, so I guess they don't retroactively go back and change previously assigned ratings.
I grew to enjoy more episodes 1 and 3, but 2 is just way too insufferable and boring. I don't have strong feelings for episode 6 either, it's a very messy film with the exception of the throne room scene.
The sequels (RO, 7 and 8) are way, way better. Sucks that Rey's story ended with 9 which didn't know what to do with all the online outrage and fighting over the previous two films - I would still prefer to watch it 100 times over episode 2 though.
The sequels (RO, 7 and 8) are way, way better. Sucks that Rey's story ended with 9 which didn't know what to do with all the online outrage and fighting over the previous two films - I would still prefer to watch it 100 times over episode 2 though.
I feel like he does not need to say anything. Time has proven him right and he already won. Tons of people (especially those that were younger when they came out) like most of the prequels.
Phantom Menace is the best Star Wars movie after Empire Strikes Back. This is gospel so don't @ me.