Damn, I'm not sure what kind of brain fart made me forget this was an option.
Traumatized
God of War Ragnarok SPOILER THREAD [DON'T CLICK!]
- Thread starter Raigor
- Start date
I really wish people would abandon this attitude. It's never true for any franchise ever.
There's nothing intrinsic about Kratos or Atreus or any character that makes them 'capable of holding a full game by themselves'. They're not real, they're just words on a page and polygons on a screen. How well any character can 'hold a full game' is dependent on the writing. Whatever parts you think are missing with Atreus for him to be able to do that, the solution is simple - The writer and gameplay designer will just design them into the next game.
Look, the root of it is this: You and everyone else liking Kratos. But you don't like Kratos intrinsically. Anyone could take the helm of the next game and write him in a way you'll HAAAAAAATE if they really wanted. You like Kratos because for the last two games, he's been written well. That's what people ultimately gets people to like a character, the good writing. But people see good writing and think that's inherent to the character, like that character carries it with them to any game they get slotted into. No, it's always the work of writers who make that happen. And they can just as easily make that happen with any character.
I find this attitude very frustrating. I respect a lot of what the writers have done with Kratos as a character, and it's disrespectful to say that they are only capable of doing that for one character and not another. I know it's not coming from a malicious place, but it's coming from an emotionally immature place - the attachment to the idea of Kratos without recognizing that the things that made him good are things you can interchange with any character.
Ratatoskr could carry the next god of war game better than Kratos if he was written well enough, because that's all this actually is - Good writing. And that belongs to the writers, not Kratos the imaginary narrative object.
I'm usually not one to turn down difficulty to progress through content, especially side content, but this game made me that man with the Berserkers. I can handle the Valkyries of the past game, sure. There was a method to all their madness, but not this gang of green glowing gargantuan garbage. And all because they keep ending up being group fights. I think I only enjoyed two so far, which happened to be the only ones who didn't have backup.
Aesthetically I just found them super unappealing compared to the previous game. Plus the arenas you fight them in are generally much smaller than where you fought the Valkyries, and even the Valkyrie arenas had some variety at points in the way they looked. There's only three fights out of ten though where it's more than 1v1 I think.
Couldn't do Svigpar when they were first available, and I had to wait until I gained a level or two. When they first became available, they were two levels higher. I just focused on killing the sisters ASAP.
Skjóthendi was super not fun. I managed to beat them on my second attempt, but it was pretty sloppy overall since I was constantly taking bifrost damage.
Hvítserkr seems to be one that is giving a lot of people fits (mainly due to targeting), but I just used the biggest AoE runic attacks and saved them for the adds.
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Berserkers were a very poor replacement for the Valkyries, even though there are 2 or 3 good fights against them, including the last.
As someone who uses dodge extender, it's very jarring to see these bosses just sliding significant distances through the terrain so their attacks connect with me. By far the biggest criticism I have in this game, this shit is prevalent against humanoid-like opponents.
NG+ baby
If it's like the last game they'll add new content and extra moves for some bosses.
As someone who uses dodge extender, it's very jarring to see these bosses just sliding significant distances through the terrain so their attacks connect with me. By far the biggest criticism I have in this game, this shit is prevalent against humanoid-like opponents.
NG+ baby
If it's like the last game they'll add new content and extra moves for some bosses.
You find a pipe in alfheim that unlocks a lore entry that basically explains that recreational weed disappeared from Vanaheim because of Fimbulwinter.
I finally took down the triple threat berserker and the last three bosses I had to take out for the platty only took a few tries with my heal build.
A few frustrations but overall a fantastic sequel that I'm happy to get the plat for again. And them catering to the trophy chasers some was appreciated too. Seeing all the characters little epilogues as I re-explored the realms to clean up was great. Kratos and Mimir's friendship is goals. Little things like talking to Tyr everywhere, finding a trinket in the house from Atreus, talking to Mimir about Atreus falling in love, petting Fenrir.. I really hope I get to see these characters again soon.
A few frustrations but overall a fantastic sequel that I'm happy to get the plat for again. And them catering to the trophy chasers some was appreciated too. Seeing all the characters little epilogues as I re-explored the realms to clean up was great. Kratos and Mimir's friendship is goals. Little things like talking to Tyr everywhere, finding a trinket in the house from Atreus, talking to Mimir about Atreus falling in love, petting Fenrir.. I really hope I get to see these characters again soon.
Legit question but what's the difference between Helheim and Niflheim? Aren't they both the world of the dead?
Helheim is the realm of the dead, Niflheim is one of the two primordial realms that caused the creation of the first giant Ymir leading to the entirety of Norse mythology. The ice to Muspelheim's fire, hence why Surtr and his other half are in each one.
i ended up turning the difficulty down for the valkyrie and the final muspelheim challenges. i can't believe they made you repeat challenges, they must be having a laugh.
i'm proud of myself for managing the berserkers on GMGOW though. 🥲
there was something kinda satisfying about getting a grip on how the AI worked with three enemies and your ally.
i'm proud of myself for managing the berserkers on GMGOW though. 🥲
there was something kinda satisfying about getting a grip on how the AI worked with three enemies and your ally.
I posted this over at Fami, but I might as well throw it out here too…
There's a lot to love about Ragnarok. It somehow manages to refine and balance the intimate character interactions of 2018, with a larger than life plot about fate and prophecy.
But it's that first part - the characters, that I'd really like to highlight. The Kratos and Atreus dynamic is stellar here and wonderfully complex and well-realised.
From the moment Kratos looks on with pride as Atreus unloads a dead deer from their sled, to the way Atreus understands and responds to Kratos' grunts, it's clear time has passed and they're now a strong unit after the events of the first game.
Atreus is inquisitive, he wants to learn more about his people, his role in the world and what it's all supposed to mean. Kratos, despite softening somewhat, is struggling with his own desire to let him do that, but keep him safe and out of Odin's sights. Stripped back, it's a very human story about a teenager growing up, forging his own path and making mistakes. And at the other end of the scales, it's about a parent learning to trust their child and let them go.
There's so many brilliant moments between the pair. They are a wonderfully written duo throughout, but to pick out a few moments…
There's so many more moments too - not just in cutscenes, but in incidental dialogue and side stories. In one side quest Kratos helps save an animal just because he wants to spend more time with his son and doesn't know how long he has left.
They aren't all positive scenes either - the pair still clash and for understandable reasons.
Even Kratos only referring to him by his name, rather than boy, tells you so much (and makes it more powerful in the one scene where he does say it).
I actually think the relationship between the two is the game's biggest accomplishment. The game is gigantic. You visit all nine realms, several of them have massive open expanses filled with side content. There's more combat options, enemy types and bosses. The plot is more complex, often bouncing between different characters and locations. There's also more spectacle than in 2018 - with loads of standout moments throughout.
But despite layering all this stuff on top of the 2018 formula. The character work between the main duo is just as accomplished, if not more so, than it was in the last game.
Mimir gets fleshed out a lot more via various side quests and dialogue too. Brok and Sindri are both brilliant and get a lot more to work with than 2018, as does Freya whose actress turns in a really powerful performance.
Tyr is likeable, but just aloof enough than you never feel completely comfortable around him. The friction between Thor and Odin is really effective, etc.
Returning characters are a lot more fleshed out, while I think all the new characters are great additions.
I also can't tell you how cathartic it was to see that last painting alongside Kratos - as someone whose been with the franchise since 05, it hit me in the feels. I was right there with him.
The fact that the postgame, which has some cool stuff in it, is all framed as Kratos' journey to becoming a god of peace and restoration, really encouraged me to do it.
As a result, I completed it 100% and bagged the platinum yesterday after 52 hours. What a game.
There's a lot to love about Ragnarok. It somehow manages to refine and balance the intimate character interactions of 2018, with a larger than life plot about fate and prophecy.
But it's that first part - the characters, that I'd really like to highlight. The Kratos and Atreus dynamic is stellar here and wonderfully complex and well-realised.
From the moment Kratos looks on with pride as Atreus unloads a dead deer from their sled, to the way Atreus understands and responds to Kratos' grunts, it's clear time has passed and they're now a strong unit after the events of the first game.
Atreus is inquisitive, he wants to learn more about his people, his role in the world and what it's all supposed to mean. Kratos, despite softening somewhat, is struggling with his own desire to let him do that, but keep him safe and out of Odin's sights. Stripped back, it's a very human story about a teenager growing up, forging his own path and making mistakes. And at the other end of the scales, it's about a parent learning to trust their child and let them go.
There's so many brilliant moments between the pair. They are a wonderfully written duo throughout, but to pick out a few moments…
- When, after being separated for a period of time, Kratos reunites with Atreus and opens up about falling back into his old ways without his son around to guide him. It's a really vulnerable moment for the main hero and really drives home what we already knew - Kratos may be teaching Atreus how to survive and look after himself, but Atreus is teaching Kratos how to be a better person.
- During the final siege on Asgard, Kratos takes Atreus to the side and tells him not to to close his heart to the suffering of others. Essentially telling Atreus that his ability to empathise with others is what makes him who he is and isn't a weakness. It works because it was such a strong early lesson for Atreus in the first game and the line itself is used often in Ragnarok. That line may have helped Atreus become the competent warrior he is today, but he shouldn't abandon who is or ignore the suffering of others. It's an acknowledgement from Kratos that his son had the right of it and he finally understands him.
- There's a sequence after Brok's death where Atreus wants to leave and go hunting to take his mind off it. Kratos indulges him but stops Atreus from shooting a deer, telling Atreus that this is a distraction and that they need to confront their problems head on. It shows that Atreus is still a child, but it also shows the impact he has had on his father.
- In the final scene where Kratos finally tells Atreus he is ready - a line that immediately invokes the 2016 E3 demo and the early parts of 2018. It's just such a good payoff and puts a cap on their entire journey. Kratos has prepared Atreus for the world and he has his son to thank for becoming a better person himself.
- Right at the end of that final scene the two grab each other's heads and lean into each other. Atreus tells Kratos not to forget the promise they made. This promise took place in the scene I mention above - the first bullet point. They agree that when they lose their way they'll hear the other's voice and take their advice. As Atreus prepares to leave, Kratos says, his arm shaking with emotion and his voice struggling to function, 'Loki will go. Atreus… Atreus will remain.' The pair then embrace in what has to be one of the emotional scenes I've seen in a game. Just wonderful stuff and an amazing conclusion.
There's so many more moments too - not just in cutscenes, but in incidental dialogue and side stories. In one side quest Kratos helps save an animal just because he wants to spend more time with his son and doesn't know how long he has left.
They aren't all positive scenes either - the pair still clash and for understandable reasons.
Even Kratos only referring to him by his name, rather than boy, tells you so much (and makes it more powerful in the one scene where he does say it).
I actually think the relationship between the two is the game's biggest accomplishment. The game is gigantic. You visit all nine realms, several of them have massive open expanses filled with side content. There's more combat options, enemy types and bosses. The plot is more complex, often bouncing between different characters and locations. There's also more spectacle than in 2018 - with loads of standout moments throughout.
But despite layering all this stuff on top of the 2018 formula. The character work between the main duo is just as accomplished, if not more so, than it was in the last game.
Mimir gets fleshed out a lot more via various side quests and dialogue too. Brok and Sindri are both brilliant and get a lot more to work with than 2018, as does Freya whose actress turns in a really powerful performance.
Tyr is likeable, but just aloof enough than you never feel completely comfortable around him. The friction between Thor and Odin is really effective, etc.
Returning characters are a lot more fleshed out, while I think all the new characters are great additions.
I also can't tell you how cathartic it was to see that last painting alongside Kratos - as someone whose been with the franchise since 05, it hit me in the feels. I was right there with him.
The fact that the postgame, which has some cool stuff in it, is all framed as Kratos' journey to becoming a god of peace and restoration, really encouraged me to do it.
As a result, I completed it 100% and bagged the platinum yesterday after 52 hours. What a game.
I mean yeah you're not wrong, Kratos isn't a real person so he isn't responsible for carrying or not carrying a game. But it's the sum of Kratos' experiences as a character, yes as written, that help to forge him into a character worth keeping and building off of. His recognizability helps sell the game sure, but it's also what he's been through and what he's grown from and into that makes him a powerful lead character. Atreus is a big part of that growth for sure, and so I actually hope the next game doesn't keep them apart for all that long. The narrative was best when they were together, working together, in tandem. And that what I'd want more of for the next game.
Atreus doesn't interest me in quite the same ways. His experiences as a written character interest me, but they're largely tied with his father Kratos. And gameplay wise I personally don't find his combat style quite as fun as Kratos', either. They did a fine job with making his combat interesting, especially with the transformations, but I don't think I'd enjoy an entire game of his combat quite the same. Yes, the writers can write whatever the want for Atreus' story because he isn't real, but as a basis character I'm just not as interested in him right now as his own lead.
Yes, absolutely, a top quality writing team can take any character and make them interesting and deep and capable of leading a game. But based on the previous two games I personally would not want an only-Atreus God of War. I would not look forward to that. I would play it, and be open minded while playing it, but it wouldn't be what I initially wanted.
And I just don't think they'll do that, anyway. I feel like they're going to tease us with the next game, and make us think it's an only Atreus game, but I think Kratos will show up when he needs him most.
I think it's fair for someone to say they don't enjoy one character as much as the other, and would hope they would not replace them as the main character of the next game. To strike that down with "well, the writers can do whatever they want with all characters" just kind of kills discussion.
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Agreed, their moments and some moments with Freya were the highlight of the game. In 2nd place I'd say that Odin's performance is amazing. Also the parts that make heavy use of Norse myths like the Norns section or visiting the Spark of the World are wonderfully realized. Everything else is not that great though, lots of characters like Thrud, Heimdall, all of Freya's companions... are forgettable and bland. And the writing takes a nosedive often for some reason, Ironwood is bad, Asgard is mostly bad, the Ragnarok section is bad.
It's a shame that a game that spends most of its efforts in offering narrative content is not that consistent with it, I suppose that the price for more variety and ambition is lack of consistency.
Different strokes and all that because I probably wouldn't agree with your criticism. I didn't really have any issues with what you mention above.
My only issue was with Ragnarok itself. It's short and wraps up a little too neatly. But even then, I think the characters are well-served in the end. So even if I felt they could have gone a bit bigger in the home stretch, I don't think it was bad by any means.
It's head and shoulders above 2018 for me, which was already a cracking game.
Finished up the berserkers this morning, deffo did these in the wrong order as the triple fight was by far the hardest to no damage & the others were super easy fights.
The final amalgamation berserker was an absolute joke compared to sigrun. Alot of the variety in its moveset is absolutely pointless, because the tell & solution is exactly the same. Sigruns moveset requrired you to carefully understand how she was moving and which attack was about to come out - not the case here.
View: https://youtu.be/gYDvsLfY9RI
The final amalgamation berserker was an absolute joke compared to sigrun. Alot of the variety in its moveset is absolutely pointless, because the tell & solution is exactly the same. Sigruns moveset requrired you to carefully understand how she was moving and which attack was about to come out - not the case here.
View: https://youtu.be/gYDvsLfY9RI
I think that Ragnarok has more variety than 2018, more mythology more environments more characters, but it lacks the polish of the previous game. The main theme of 2018 was Kratos and Atreus, and they have continued this plotline wonderfully here, but at times it seems like the other plotlines were written by less-experienced staff.
I'm on a 2nd playthrough and about to wrap up my time with Brok.
"It needs the blessing of a great blacksmith..."
"It needs the blessing of a great blacksmith..."
Oh, I only heard her cry, yes but maybe there's something else?
I'm curious, with SMS saying that Ragnarok was the end of the "Norse saga", I wonder if there's hidden meaning in their wording. I'm by no means an expert on Norse mythos and my 5 mins of Googling ain't gonna fill in all the blanks, but it seems that there may not be a huge amount of mythos after Ragnarok other than some folks coming back to life and a new golden age for mortals. Could "Norse saga" specifically refer to the whole tale up until Ragnarok, and they could make a future game that encompasses this setting, but they have free reign to go in whatever creative direction they want using the setting as a backdrop?
I still think future DLC/full entries will involve other lands, but I can see us spending more time in the Norse lands as well to some degree.
I still think future DLC/full entries will involve other lands, but I can see us spending more time in the Norse lands as well to some degree.
I think maybe they meant the end of the Norse saga in terms of the entire game being in 1 pantheon.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised with the power of only being on next gen, the next god of war starts off in a different pantheon with Atreus, and the game will be marketed as an Atreus only game, but at the midpoint Kratos comes back (equivalent to getting the blades in 2018) and there is some aspect of the game requiring exploration/adventure in the 9 realms as well with Kratos and having to link up with wherever Atreus is.
I completed the story and I have some paternity issues. Atreus was not Kratos son? And was that Kratos in Egypt mythology?
What a great post, thank you for putting into words the way I've also been feeling about those moments!
What an incredible accomplishment this game turned out being, I really don't see how they top this haha
Uhm not sure what makes you think Atreus isn't Kratos' son? He clearly is.
And if you're referring to the last panel: it's Kratos rebuilding the Norse pantheon and being worshipped for it.
Bruh, insane, you're just doing this for the fuck of it? Going no damage? :O
Took me 6 hours yesterday. I knew that I could return later, but persevered and managed to take them down.
That fight really exposed camera issues in the game and I was able to beat them after I've disabled all camera and aim assists.
Wasn't sure if we still had to spoiler tag:
Thoughts on the ending compared to mythology:
I know they were trying to subvert expectations but really thought and wish that Garm bit Kratos' arm off. It would provide a platform for new ideas in the next God of War (thinking of the arm prosthetic in Sekiro). Certainly a much more upbeat ending for Loki and Agraboda than what happens in the mythos. Think I was hoping they'd stick closer to the source material and maybe have Atreus go blind rather than have him in the cave.
The game really glossed over the world serpent, wish they'd dived a bit more into how exactly being punched by Thor could send him back in time and if the two versions exist at the same time. Where is the older world serpent during the end?
Loved the ending but thought it tried to hard to subvert expectations
Thoughts on the ending compared to mythology:
I know they were trying to subvert expectations but really thought and wish that Garm bit Kratos' arm off. It would provide a platform for new ideas in the next God of War (thinking of the arm prosthetic in Sekiro). Certainly a much more upbeat ending for Loki and Agraboda than what happens in the mythos. Think I was hoping they'd stick closer to the source material and maybe have Atreus go blind rather than have him in the cave.
The game really glossed over the world serpent, wish they'd dived a bit more into how exactly being punched by Thor could send him back in time and if the two versions exist at the same time. Where is the older world serpent during the end?
Loved the ending but thought it tried to hard to subvert expectations
You're right that the events of Ragnarok are basically the end of the source material we have for Norse myth. It is the Norse Gods' end of days, with Baldur being resurrected as a one-true-god figure (though I personally believe this is an addition to the mythology post-christianization).
However the events of Ragnarok in this game are not really at all how it happens in the myth. Surtr fights and kills Freyr before destroying Asgard, yes. But Surtr is also supposed to lay waste to all realms after Asgard. Loki is supposed to be dead. Odin is killed at the hands…er paws (jaws to be more precise) of Fenrir. Before any of this happens, Tyr tricks Fenrir into captivity by placing his right hand in his mouth as a promise that they are not trying to trick him into captivity. Whoops, turns out they were and he bites off Tyr's hand. Tyr was also never prophecied to lead the armies against Odin, Odin did not and would not kill Thor, etc.
Also, Nidhogg is not supposed to die and is actually one of the last living beings after Ragnarok. So it's wild that we kill him lol…obviously Nidhogg is female in the game, but I don't think a gender is ever specified in the myth.
So the game does some fun things with creative license, and changing destiny and all that. And omg in writing this I am realizing that Kratos and Atreus are videogaming's Sam and Dean Winchester lmao
When SMS says this was the end of the Norse saga, I think that means the focus on Norse myth will be little to non-existent in the next game, with any any remnants basically being the characters we now have (Thrud, Freya, Mimir, etc). Think of how little Greek myth we got in the last two games. I think we're going to see a Celtic pantheon game next, with Atreus traveling west in search of more Jotnar. There are a lot of nods to Celtic myth and folklore in GOWR so that's my prediction.
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Mimir mentioned back in GoW 2018 that Thors fight with the world serpent at fractured the world tree and sent him back in time. The precise mechanics of how that occurred could be something they explore in a future game.
As for the other world serpent, the one we've been dealing with this whole time and the bigger one, they're still in Midgard during the battle and wasn't part of the fight. Presumably he's still chilling there somewhere post-game.
Could give them carte blanche to do whatever they want with these established characters in this setting, while also introducing us to other lands and their established mythos.
Yep. Midgard is just earth, and in this game's setting is ancient Norway. So I mean even the original trilogy was technically Midgard. So they can absolutely continue to expand on Thrud, Freya, etc while heading to new settings that they continue to refer to as Midgard (which could provide some funny interactions with natives in whichever lands they travel to).
Mimir I think will be very important if they travel west and encounter Celtic deities and creatures. He is Puck, Robin Goodfellow, etc. a Celtic Fae, basically.
It's basically that Thor hit Jormangandr so hard he flung him out of our time and backwards into the past.
I suspect SMS created that idea to give a more digestible interpretation of Jormangandr's birth to Loki and Angrboda. I really liked how they did this to be honest.
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I predict the premise of the next game will be that Atreus has gone missing during his search for the giants and Kratos will go on a new adventure to find him. I bet they'll travel to the land of Egyptian mythology next.
Have you done Gna yet?
While not on Sigrun level I thought it was a far more interesting fight than this dude. I really love the Valkyrie animations.
No need to spoiler tag in this thread.
The old world serpent is just chilling in Midgard during the end.
And they do exist at the same time (though the new serpent is growing in Jotunheim) until we see Thor knocking the serpent back in time during Ragnarok.
just did her this evening. Absolutely loved fighting her, tough fight to no damage…she's got an insane amount of mix ups.
The attacks that you can interrupt w. sigil/sonic arrows are such a great idea, shame it's not used elsewhere
View: https://youtu.be/vb5pd_kwARA
Gotta say, after trying to mop up the collectibles post-game to get that sweet sweet 100%, I can feel the absence of the Lake of Nine a LOT more. These envs are a lot less fun to wander back thru, Vanahiem in particular. Vanahiem just has 0 sightlines, so you can't see a collectable far off and run over to it, you have to wind thru tight corridors keeping your eyes peeled for a bird that can blend into the background
Also, the optional areas in 2018 were a lot smaller in scope, making them easier to manage in general. I think the environments in this game are awesome during the story, so this isn't a huge complaint, but it is an annoying step backwards
I hope the next game they do can go back to the structure of the first game, maybe try and tell a smaller story
Also, the optional areas in 2018 were a lot smaller in scope, making them easier to manage in general. I think the environments in this game are awesome during the story, so this isn't a huge complaint, but it is an annoying step backwards
I hope the next game they do can go back to the structure of the first game, maybe try and tell a smaller story
Do we keep all these weapons in the next game? Surely all this work should keep them around as secret unlockables if they can't be incorporated into the next games story.