It just made me laugh when you said they do so much for charity, like they are incredibly generous philanthropists.
That's a completely separate argument from whether or not they are a net positive to the British economy.
Government is to suspend parliament (U.K.) Update: Queen approves the move.
- Thread starter Garfield
- Start date
That's a completely separate argument from whether or not they are a net positive to the British economy.
Sorry but the idea of being "born better" is just nuts in my book and should not be supported by any means in a modern democratic society
She doesn't have to stop him. All she has to do is speak or put out a statement about what will happen if a No Deal Brexit comes to pass and how irresponsible it is. Tell the people that it threatens the continued existence of the United Kingdom.
AAAAAAAAAGH!
They can't voice an opinion. They are not even allowed to hold an opinion, officially.
Whatever the point of the monarchy is, it is not to interfere in politics. They could easily be got rid of. They are only still there for the following reasons
1) tourism income (not looking for a debate on this point - make another thread for that, but that's one of the reasons agree with it or not)
2) diplomacy
3) getting rid of them would be a huge and costly ballache, fraught with complications and would involve ripping up how our country works. Not saying it couldn't be done but it's not like we just tell them to hop it and move on.
4) people like them
They have no substantive role to play in politics at all bar rubber stamping whatever parliament presents them with.
hmm. And was there any controversy about people lying to the GG about their reasons for prorogation? It's essentially pretty much exactly the same thing. I wonder if there are any lessons to learn.
The palace of Versailles is one of the most visited places in the world, and we all know what the French did with their royals. You don't need an extant monarchy for people to want to go to beautiful old buildings filled with historical and valuable relics. Moreover, some of their residences are not open to the public and those that are have restricted access due to the royals occasionally living there. Can't tell me they'd make less tourism bucks with more things to show and longer opening hours.
Though this is all pretty off-topic to discussion about what the suspension of parliament means. As has been pointed out many times, the queen was never going to do anything else but rubber stamp it because that's what she does and discussing her or the royals in general is a bit of a pointless exercise.
So I gave 2 arguments as to why we should keep the royal family.
Also I'm sure the people involved in things such as the Invictus Games are not laughing and appreciate all the help that Harry gives.
Where do any of them say they are "born better"? If anything they have to bare more burden than a lot of us do. It's not just about money.
Also how is the UK a modern democratic society? We have a tin pot dictator in charge right now so where is the democracy?
But that is the whole point. It's the uniqueness of still having a monarchy that makes the UK popular to visit. The monarchy in France example is different because that was at a time when royals had power. The Queen does not have power and if anything if she stepped in right now it would be more reason to remove her and the rest of them. Hence why she doesn't say anything, I'm sure she doesn't want her head chopped off.
Edit: Anyway that is all I'm going to say on the royal issue, it is distracting away from the real problem here which is Boris.
Loads of countries still have monarchies. In a lot of them the monarchs still have real power. There's nothing unique about it.
Guys, stupid question.
Is the Scottish Labour/Tory party a different party from the actual Labour/Tory party? I honestly can't remember what the ballot looks like.
Is the Scottish Labour/Tory party a different party from the actual Labour/Tory party? I honestly can't remember what the ballot looks like.
There is a separate wing of the party for the Scottish Parliament (Which Ruth Davidson is a member of) - they are semi-autonomous. In Westminster elections it's just the regular party.
Same parties in England and Scotland. There's a Scottish Labour Party and Scottish Conservative Party for election to the Scottish Parliament, but they're both technically part of the UK-wide parties.
Edit: Beaten
I wish I could be more positive on my outlook. I just think it's more likely that the blame will be pushed on the most vulnerable and the public will continue to lap it up.
Of course there was. To most Canadians it was blatantly obvious what was going on.
The GG sided with the conservatives because they feared a constitutional crisis if they said no.
It's amazing the mental gymnastics people will go through to avoid blaming a shitty electorate voting in shitty politicians and policies.
It's not hard to use actual fair arguments when criticizing both instead of pretending everyone else is responsible for the right wing's sins.
Then that's not a monarchy anymore. You don't have a monarchy just because you call someone king / queen, it's a constitutional matter. What you said is in fact exactly what I meant, that their power would be taken away. Then they would also cease to be monarchs.
VONC +29
Temp government with Corbyn -61
Temp government with someone else -293
UK
If people fixate on it as the one point sure, but it's not like anti-Royalists are likely to be Tory sympathisers anyhow. People can hate on multiple things. Though I do concede there is the incredibly frustrating phenomena of Boris always being seen as shit, so people spend more time shittalking others because it's expected. That gets on my nerves too.
Thanks for this, been wanting to see the parliamentary arithmetic for a while.
Legit just can't understand the MPs who think they can sort this without an election, how the hell does anything get done? Obviously many are worried about their seats, especially the Tory rebels who'd be kicked out of the party in the process.
This is the crux of it for me. How can tolerance and equality ever be fully achieved when this is going on is beyond me. You can't say 'Treat everyone equally. Except this family, they're just more worthy and important than you by virtue of birth' on one side and then preach equality on the other.
VONC +29
Temp government with Corbyn -61
Temp government with someone else -293
UK
So we'll start the process and then nobody can decide what to do - sounds about right.
I can't say I'm surprised, but I am disappointed at how quickly people have started bleating the party line that "This is a perfectly normal process, it's just because they want to do a queen's speech".
I'm genuinely embarrassed for them. Pitiful.
I'm genuinely embarrassed for them. Pitiful.
I hate how it's this shitty opinion that's led us here now. If they just grew some fucking balls and voted properly before the way they should have done rather than trying to protect their own careers that they'll lose when our country goes down the toilet then we might've avoided all of this.
Oh wow, so we're going to block no deal, then have a general election and elect Boris, who will then try and have a no deal brexit again. How long will this keep going on for??
Only way tories don't win a general election is if the others agree to not get in the way. I don't think they will.
This is the new normal: perpetual limbo and constant extensions
Weren't some crazy Brexiteers quoting the Magna Carta at one point?
Brexiteers are crazy. They don't live in the same reality as you or I.
Unless blocking no deal results in revoking article 50 I guess? I can't really see them granting another extension
It always pleasantly startles me when someone outside of this island actually knows the fucking bare minimum about the situation that led to The Troubles.
In Canada the conclusion was the motive doesn't matter, since the most "neutral" position was to grant prorogation.
