Ragnarok is such a mediocre game. It's overstuffed, poorly paced (dear lord, the Atreus sections...), and severely lacking in exciting, dynamic setpieces. Just like the first game, they went all out for the big opening fight, and then nothing else in the ENTIRE game comes close to matching it. Most of the game is honestly just a slog, Ragnarok, the event, sucked
Jedi Survivor is definitely much better, love the exploration and boss fights. The story however, takes waaaay too long to get moving, that's my huge problem with it. You spend most of the plot just following Dagan around and nothing really happens until the end.
Jedi Survivor is definitely much better, love the exploration and boss fights. The story however, takes waaaay too long to get moving, that's my huge problem with it. You spend most of the plot just following Dagan around and nothing really happens until the end.
Absolutely loved both games, but Jedi Survivor impressed me more.
But that has more to do with the amount of improvements compared to the first game.
It's definitely a perfect case of different expectations. GoW2018 is an all-time great game, while Fallen Order was solid at best.
It's a lot harder to improve on GoW2018 as an overall package than Fallen Order.
I can't think of any aspect of Fallen Order being better than the sequel.
The world building, the characters, the level design and combat encounter are all so much better in Survivor. Except for some terrible side bosses that are even worse in the sequel. Or that you have to choose stands in advance and can't just switch them on the fly.
I still think that Ragnarök did an amazing job with the side quests, the RPG elements (especially the different builds) actually having an impact on gameplay style (which the first did not at all) and the Kratos-Atreus relationship. But GoW2018 was already an incredible game, so it's almost impossible to recapture that magic again.
But that has more to do with the amount of improvements compared to the first game.
It's definitely a perfect case of different expectations. GoW2018 is an all-time great game, while Fallen Order was solid at best.
It's a lot harder to improve on GoW2018 as an overall package than Fallen Order.
I can't think of any aspect of Fallen Order being better than the sequel.
The world building, the characters, the level design and combat encounter are all so much better in Survivor. Except for some terrible side bosses that are even worse in the sequel. Or that you have to choose stands in advance and can't just switch them on the fly.
I still think that Ragnarök did an amazing job with the side quests, the RPG elements (especially the different builds) actually having an impact on gameplay style (which the first did not at all) and the Kratos-Atreus relationship. But GoW2018 was already an incredible game, so it's almost impossible to recapture that magic again.
Still playing through survivor, but I'll just say Cory was smart on recommending wrapping up the story after 2 games. GOWR was a disjointed experience for me. The pacing and story beats keeps me from caring to ever revisit it again in the future. It just didn't hit like 2018 did for me.
The beauty of having a diverse gaming industry means that we shouldn't have more or one and less of the other, but that both can exist in equal amounts to appeal to as many types of gamers looking for different types of games as possible.
This could easily devolve into a mudslinging contest about heavy narrative focused, expensive third-party action games and licensed games that launch pretty broken… but the reality is both of these games are wildly popular for a reason so we probably don't need to get rid of either of them, lol.
This could easily devolve into a mudslinging contest about heavy narrative focused, expensive third-party action games and licensed games that launch pretty broken… but the reality is both of these games are wildly popular for a reason so we probably don't need to get rid of either of them, lol.
I think exploration, traversal, and level design is way better in Jedi Survivor (Ragnarok does have some bright spots in level design with the crater and some other non story places). Jedi Survivor is well written but the story itself is incredibly bland to me, and the use of the license is much less impactful than it was in Fallen Order. The story in Ragnarok is a mess but it's much more entertaining to me.
Combat, well, personally I prefer Ragnarok by a wide margin, I don't even feel the combat is good in Survivor, fighting most enemies is really annoying.
Valhalla is new God of War at its best. The one thing they need to improve dramatically imo is traversal, is too stiff.
Combat, well, personally I prefer Ragnarok by a wide margin, I don't even feel the combat is good in Survivor, fighting most enemies is really annoying.
Valhalla is new God of War at its best. The one thing they need to improve dramatically imo is traversal, is too stiff.
I just finished Jedi Survivor and really enjoyed it, I played FO and while I enjoyed it enough to finish it there was something about it I didnt like overall, I wouldn't say I even really liked it
I think the story may have been better in FO but I really enjoyed the way the story was told in Survivor
I thought it looked well and played well and the new force powers etc were excellent and a lot of fun. The larger hub world I think is fine but the way the game reveals powers etc to you it ends up just being something I left to the end and swept through, I would rather have a planet hopping thing where theres maybe some doors or levels locked off for you to go back to later but this was just a huge area I knew there was no point in exploring
I was pretty turned off the franchise after Fallen Order so I only did one month of EA Play to try Survivor and honestly I wish I'd just bought it, I still will if its on sale, cant say the same for the first
Ragnarok was the opposite, I was excited for it after 2018 which I really enjoyed, but as noted above it just felt like such a retread and the narrative was a mess, I really liked Odin and Thor and their portrayals but I just felt like I'd played it already in a way, there were some nice areas and visuals and things but honestly it was so bloated and messy it put me off the franchise
There's a lot of reasons these giant games that take 5-7 years to make are problematic but one of them is that the design decisions that need to be made early on end up kind of holding the whole thing back by the time it gets out, I'm sure I would've enjoyed Ragnarok more if it was a tighter 10 hour experience with areas that could be replayed for those that enjoy that, Survivor ended up about 30 hours for me and thats because I was really enjoying it but again most of the map of Koboh could've been cut and I wouldn't have noticed
Its a tough balance, when I was younger I would've loved these huge games but now I dont have the time for them so theyre not really for me in a way which is fine, but when they take like 7 years and thousands of people to develop and dont really iterate on previous entries then it starts to feel like an issue
I think the story may have been better in FO but I really enjoyed the way the story was told in Survivor
I thought it looked well and played well and the new force powers etc were excellent and a lot of fun. The larger hub world I think is fine but the way the game reveals powers etc to you it ends up just being something I left to the end and swept through, I would rather have a planet hopping thing where theres maybe some doors or levels locked off for you to go back to later but this was just a huge area I knew there was no point in exploring
I was pretty turned off the franchise after Fallen Order so I only did one month of EA Play to try Survivor and honestly I wish I'd just bought it, I still will if its on sale, cant say the same for the first
Ragnarok was the opposite, I was excited for it after 2018 which I really enjoyed, but as noted above it just felt like such a retread and the narrative was a mess, I really liked Odin and Thor and their portrayals but I just felt like I'd played it already in a way, there were some nice areas and visuals and things but honestly it was so bloated and messy it put me off the franchise
There's a lot of reasons these giant games that take 5-7 years to make are problematic but one of them is that the design decisions that need to be made early on end up kind of holding the whole thing back by the time it gets out, I'm sure I would've enjoyed Ragnarok more if it was a tighter 10 hour experience with areas that could be replayed for those that enjoy that, Survivor ended up about 30 hours for me and thats because I was really enjoying it but again most of the map of Koboh could've been cut and I wouldn't have noticed
Its a tough balance, when I was younger I would've loved these huge games but now I dont have the time for them so theyre not really for me in a way which is fine, but when they take like 7 years and thousands of people to develop and dont really iterate on previous entries then it starts to feel like an issue
I also played both games, but in the end I think I enjoyed Ragnarok more. The character interactions always made think about stuff other than the game, as if there was always some hidden meaning or life lesson. Sure it isn't like that all the time, but by the end it becomes clear there was that intent. On the other hand, Survivor had an standard story... the thing they're chasing is definitely less than the Holocron in the first game but the characters pull the game through, they're interesting and all. Gameplay wise I won't compare both, they're both great when you get in the flow anyway. Performance it's a win for Ragnarok, Jedi Survivor perfomance and graphics were very distracting during my playthrough.
One aspect I think Survivor absolutely clears over Ragnarok is set pieces, that was really missing in Ragnarok. By the time the actual Ragnarok happens, there's zero set pieces or bossfights similar to the first trilogy. Survivor, on the other hand, puts you in Cere's body to fight fucking Darth Vader, that is super fucking cool.
One aspect I think Survivor absolutely clears over Ragnarok is set pieces, that was really missing in Ragnarok. By the time the actual Ragnarok happens, there's zero set pieces or bossfights similar to the first trilogy. Survivor, on the other hand, puts you in Cere's body to fight fucking Darth Vader, that is super fucking cool.
I liked both a lot, but Ragnarok is head and shoulders above in almost every regard. Overall narrative, writing, acting, combat, enemy variety, technical performance (and I could go on). Survivor isn't necessarily bad in any of those areas (other than performance) but it's certainly not great in any of them.
The one area where I think Survivor is stronger is its level design, specifically when it comes to the elaborate areas for one-time major missions. The metroidvania systems and platforming allows for much more interesting world design than what you get in Ragnarok. Ragnarok's levels feels like their designers have their hands tied behind their back. It's beautiful, but flat and sometimes tedious to traverse.
The one area where I think Survivor is stronger is its level design, specifically when it comes to the elaborate areas for one-time major missions. The metroidvania systems and platforming allows for much more interesting world design than what you get in Ragnarok. Ragnarok's levels feels like their designers have their hands tied behind their back. It's beautiful, but flat and sometimes tedious to traverse.
Interesting, for me I could've made a kinda similar thread about the tale of two games. But then with Ragnarok and Final Fantasy XVI (which I played in a close timespan). And there FF was bloated and filled with fluff and a lot of character/lore stuff that did not feel relevant.
Ragnarok had to rush some of it's storytelling and some of the Atreus stuff was a bit too limited and lesser in terms of gameplay. But I greatly appreciated how involved some of the optional stuff was. I think it is quite a focused title when going for the main course (perhaps a bit short on the end part even). And the side content feels as polished and impressive to those who feel like it. If you are a completionist gamer I can see it throwing off the pacing though. But it is honestly exactly how I like it. I also felt 2018 had more filler and repetitive stuff, which to me makes a game feel bloated. I am also an absolute sucker for the world building and lore of GoW Ragnarok, it greatly enhanced the titles to me. Loved mimir in both games.
I have not played Jedi Survivor though, looking forward to doing so.
Ragnarok had to rush some of it's storytelling and some of the Atreus stuff was a bit too limited and lesser in terms of gameplay. But I greatly appreciated how involved some of the optional stuff was. I think it is quite a focused title when going for the main course (perhaps a bit short on the end part even). And the side content feels as polished and impressive to those who feel like it. If you are a completionist gamer I can see it throwing off the pacing though. But it is honestly exactly how I like it. I also felt 2018 had more filler and repetitive stuff, which to me makes a game feel bloated. I am also an absolute sucker for the world building and lore of GoW Ragnarok, it greatly enhanced the titles to me. Loved mimir in both games.
I have not played Jedi Survivor though, looking forward to doing so.
Enjoyed both but GoW Ragnarok was the better game for me and it was way more polished too, as expected for a flagship Sony First Party game. Jedi Survivor was broken and buggy for far too long, which kinda let the game down, even now not all the bugs are fixed. I enjoyed it eventually, once it was in better shape months after release but it definitely put a bit of a downer on the game.
I'm with you on this, OP. I enjoyed a lot of Ragnarok, but there were times while playing that I felt I was just doing meaningless tasks, it really felt like bloat. The combat was of course phenomenal, but it really didn't leave me with the same impact as the first game,, and perhaps that is unfair to the game as it is a sequel. I was left a bit empty after completing the game. Really good game, but not so memorable for me.
Survivor on the other hand, had me engaged a lot more. Although this game had some bloat as well, I just seemed to enjoy it overall more. Maybe I just love lightsabers...
Survivor on the other hand, had me engaged a lot more. Although this game had some bloat as well, I just seemed to enjoy it overall more. Maybe I just love lightsabers...
I found both games too long.
GoWR felt like two games in one. The highs were magnificent but the combat never clicked like it did in 2018. That ultimately detracted from the experience as instead of just living out the power fantasy I was fiddling around with builds that felt good to play. I will do another playthrough someday to see if I missed something as 2018 was my favorite PS4 game.
Jedi Survivor improved on its predecessor across the board, better combat, map and a compelling story. The game felt overly long especially since I wasted a ton of time exploring every nook and cranny in the "open world" only to find out I couldn't access it. The Metroid gated exploration was frustrating.
GoWR felt like two games in one. The highs were magnificent but the combat never clicked like it did in 2018. That ultimately detracted from the experience as instead of just living out the power fantasy I was fiddling around with builds that felt good to play. I will do another playthrough someday to see if I missed something as 2018 was my favorite PS4 game.
Jedi Survivor improved on its predecessor across the board, better combat, map and a compelling story. The game felt overly long especially since I wasted a ton of time exploring every nook and cranny in the "open world" only to find out I couldn't access it. The Metroid gated exploration was frustrating.
Haven't played Ragnarok, but it seems to have the same issue I have with Survivor vs Fallen Order.
I liked Survivor, but it felt like it grew too much between games. I think open world games in general have this issue of volume vs depth. I just find myself getting bored of all the open world systems half way though and never finish the game. What's fun for 25 hours is not going to be fun for another 25 if its more or less the same thing.
I liked Survivor, but it felt like it grew too much between games. I think open world games in general have this issue of volume vs depth. I just find myself getting bored of all the open world systems half way though and never finish the game. What's fun for 25 hours is not going to be fun for another 25 if its more or less the same thing.
Ragnarok would have benefitted from being a shorter game. Lots of sections felt like they could have been much shorter and having more impact for it. That said the "true ending" in Ragnarok was so good that it made me retroactively forget all the misgivings I had with the game, and is the thing my mind goes to first when I think about the game. Also the berserkers and the very last Valkyrie boss battle were all excellent.
Jedi survivor seems to have improved upon the best gameplay elements of its predecessor (i say 'seems to' because i'm not super far into survivor), while GOWR did not. specifically level design. there are very long, linear stretches in GOWR that go on seemingly forever. the story bits, lore, and character building would have been better served if they were dolled out more similarly to the first game with more stretches of gameplay out in the hub areas with freedom to seek out a side quest, or continue the main path as opposed to forcing the player into hours and hours of linearity. i was hoping for more branching paths and something more akin to the crater section. if the game was made up on a small handful of crater-like sections, GOWR would have been a classic. but as it stands it's a decent sequel that was a fun ride, but ultimately a disappointment for me
I'm only about 8ish hours into Jedi Survivor but am loving it. GoW:R left me fairly disappointed at the end, most of the game was pretty strong, although a little too similar to GoW2018, but the buildup to Ragnarok had me anticipating something epic but the whole event basically takes place in the background. I've heard Jedi survivor has a crazy twist in it somewhere, hopefully it pulls it off for me.
Completely agree. Jedi Survivor is an exceptional game and a massive improvement over the first, whereas GoWR was a big disappointment. Both in terms of gameplay and story, Jedi obliterates GoW. Combat is so much more rewarding in Jedi, challenging (on Grandmaster at least) without being frustrating like GoWR and the game doesn't treat you like an idiot child by constantly holding your hand too.
It's also somewhat ironic that GoWR falls into the tepid Marvel-like storytelling, you'd think that'd be Star Wars, but Jedi Survivor is actually less cowardly in its storytelling lol
It's also somewhat ironic that GoWR falls into the tepid Marvel-like storytelling, you'd think that'd be Star Wars, but Jedi Survivor is actually less cowardly in its storytelling lol
It's honestly weird how Jedi Survivor just disappeared from all GOTY talk last year. The jump from Fallen Order was HUGE and yet *crickets* Very likely that Zelda (which released a few weeks after Jedi) and Spider-Man 2 at the tail end of the year stole a lot of its thunder or I guess people really took the launch performance personally.
It still blew my mind when Survivor threw this fight at me:
Damn there was no air dash or grapple in FO? My memory these days…
I'm in the same boat. Ragnarok is just very overrated imo. Kratos being essentially glued to the ground never sat well with me and the pacing is just flat bad at points. Cal jusy feels infinetly better to control and move around environments and the story never dragged. Yeah JS had jank but it really didn't matter to me in the end and I found it way more enjoyable.
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I loved both. Both had excellent story beats I was impressed with throughout, but each also had one thing holding it back.
For Ragnarok is was pacing. The story just doesn't seem to gain any traction for the first several hours. when it hits it fucking hits, but I would've liked a little more substance in between, or a bit of the filler cut or made optional.
For Survivor it was the performance. The game feels fine until all of the sudden it doesn't and then you feel like the whole thing is held together with spit and bubblegum. I encountered a game-breaking load-error almost halfway through the game that almost soured my enjoyment of the game completely. Thankfully clearing the cache allowed me to finally load my save. In another more comedic example, one of the legendary beasts fucking killed itself before I could fight it and I got the message informing me of it's demise as I was climbing a wall, made me scratch my head a bit.
Gun to my head, I'd say I liked both of them equally. I'd probably give the edge to Ragnarok because technical problems are a bigger issue in my eye than pacing problems, but I really REALLY enjoyed both a lot. Survivor was almost my GotY for 2023 (Alan Wake 2 just barely edged it out). Ragnarok was almost my GotY for 2022 (Elden Ring just barely edged it out).
For Ragnarok is was pacing. The story just doesn't seem to gain any traction for the first several hours. when it hits it fucking hits, but I would've liked a little more substance in between, or a bit of the filler cut or made optional.
For Survivor it was the performance. The game feels fine until all of the sudden it doesn't and then you feel like the whole thing is held together with spit and bubblegum. I encountered a game-breaking load-error almost halfway through the game that almost soured my enjoyment of the game completely. Thankfully clearing the cache allowed me to finally load my save. In another more comedic example, one of the legendary beasts fucking killed itself before I could fight it and I got the message informing me of it's demise as I was climbing a wall, made me scratch my head a bit.
Gun to my head, I'd say I liked both of them equally. I'd probably give the edge to Ragnarok because technical problems are a bigger issue in my eye than pacing problems, but I really REALLY enjoyed both a lot. Survivor was almost my GotY for 2023 (Alan Wake 2 just barely edged it out). Ragnarok was almost my GotY for 2022 (Elden Ring just barely edged it out).
Jedi Survivor really said
Alright Cal and Merrin, y'all get to raise the daughter of the man you killed right in front of her, best wishes
Survivor is a gem, may be my favourite Star Wars game.
The character work done on Cal especially it's great and I loved the new stances and the platforming, things like dashing, wallrunning and double jumping are super fun and the level design is great and creative and encourage full use of your powers.
I hope Respawn is able to nail Jedi 3 both story and gameplay wise like Survivor while taking care of performance issue before launch this time.
As IGN said in their review of Survivor if they get the third game right I think the Star Wars:Jedi Trilogy may be the best Star Wars Trilogy in the gaming sphere.
The character work done on Cal especially it's great and I loved the new stances and the platforming, things like dashing, wallrunning and double jumping are super fun and the level design is great and creative and encourage full use of your powers.
I hope Respawn is able to nail Jedi 3 both story and gameplay wise like Survivor while taking care of performance issue before launch this time.
As IGN said in their review of Survivor if they get the third game right I think the Star Wars:Jedi Trilogy may be the best Star Wars Trilogy in the gaming sphere.
Ragnarok is one of the worst games I have played.
Atreus ruined the game. That scene with him and the girl pretty much made me stopped playing.
I used to be a huge fan of the originals (God Of War 1/2/3) - they were actually fun to play and felt like an epic adventure. God of War 2018 was different, but still an enjoyable journey in it's own right.
The pacing of Ragnarok however is nothing short of atrocious. Furthermore the writing is horrendous. It was as if I was watching some modern age drama, not a Norse epic.
Atreus ruined the game. That scene with him and the girl pretty much made me stopped playing.
I used to be a huge fan of the originals (God Of War 1/2/3) - they were actually fun to play and felt like an epic adventure. God of War 2018 was different, but still an enjoyable journey in it's own right.
The pacing of Ragnarok however is nothing short of atrocious. Furthermore the writing is horrendous. It was as if I was watching some modern age drama, not a Norse epic.
Ragnarok using literally every second of non combat time with some character telling some story about norse history with names you cant even pronounce is way out of control
I assume Santa Monica Studio crammed all the conclusion of Ragnarök because they have to decide whether there'll be a third game or not; if a third game exist, it wouldn't work because they could risk to stretch the story thinner, but Ragnarök itself was unfortunately rushed in the end & bloated, more/less, for better/worse, in my humble opinion. 🤷
A good functional & fun game still.
Hope the next mainline game would be better & not as bloated.
A good functional & fun game still.
Hope the next mainline game would be better & not as bloated.
Yea, I respect their decision, I totally get not wanting to be tied down to Norse mythology for over a decade, but in hindsight the sequel definitely suffered due to that decision
man, do I wish I have played the games that you have where Ragnarok is one of the worst lol
Jedi Survivor is hands down the best Star Wars game since Kotor. If BG3 wouldn't have been one of the best games ever made, Jedi Survivor would have been my game of the year. It's Fantastic.
You give me a PS1 and 5 minutes and I can find you 20 games that will make you hate that you were ever born.
Just a taste.
It's really sad that the performance of Jedi Survivor has overshadowed how absolutely wonderful the game is in every other way. From music and sound design, to story, all the way to puzzles and combat. The game is such a leap over the first one, which was already great, that I think it's my favorite Star Wars game ever.
Maybe I got lucky on PS5 quality mode, but I was able to play it without performance troubles.
Maybe I got lucky on PS5 quality mode, but I was able to play it without performance troubles.
I played through both GOW games and Fallen Order but haven't gotten to Survivor yet. Some folks here might remember my infamous thread where I tried to explain why I enjoyed Fallen Order more than GOW 2018.
Basically, FO felt like a AAA game that didn't overstay its welcome and didn't try to stretch beyond what it was. My main problem with the new GOW games is that I think they push their RPG elements way too hard and it ends up feeling like bloat.
Respawn's Jedi games are ultimately a diluted version of Sekiro, but they have a very straightforward target -- deliver on the Jedi fantasy -- and FO pretty much nailed it while offering metroidvania level design that's good enough to keep you occupied.
Basically, FO felt like a AAA game that didn't overstay its welcome and didn't try to stretch beyond what it was. My main problem with the new GOW games is that I think they push their RPG elements way too hard and it ends up feeling like bloat.
Respawn's Jedi games are ultimately a diluted version of Sekiro, but they have a very straightforward target -- deliver on the Jedi fantasy -- and FO pretty much nailed it while offering metroidvania level design that's good enough to keep you occupied.
I can't possibly explain how much I hate the puzzles in Ragnarok. Nothing is fun to me about having to figure out to open some giant gate after every encounter; really, really killed the pacing of the game to me.
It honestly made me hate the game; really grew tired of having of them like 3 hours into the game and they got more annoying as the game went on. Not to mention that according to the lore of the games Kratos is so powerful that he should be able to shoulder-check any gate into smithereens. Puzzles make the game a 4/10 to me, not even exaggerating.
The roguelite mode they added was fun though
It honestly made me hate the game; really grew tired of having of them like 3 hours into the game and they got more annoying as the game went on. Not to mention that according to the lore of the games Kratos is so powerful that he should be able to shoulder-check any gate into smithereens. Puzzles make the game a 4/10 to me, not even exaggerating.
The roguelite mode they added was fun though
As a sequel I have never been more letdown in a game.