• Light/Dark

GQ: The untold story of Otto Warmbier, the American who died at the hands of DPRK

Status
Not open for further replies.
Chittagong

Chittagong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,793
London, UK
GQ has produced a fantastic piece of investigative journalism to the tragic death of Otto Warmbier, the American detained by DPRK for stealing a poster

https://www.gq.com/story/otto-warmbier-north-korea-american-hostage-true-story

- Considering Otto's history, religion and ambition, it seems likely that his confession was forced
- Warmbier family reached Trump via targeted Fox News features after being stonewalled by Ivanka & co
- There was no physical evidence of physical torture, instead he seemed to have been well looked after
- DPRK historically hasn't physically tortured Western detainees as it would backfire
- The torture narrative is based on a single hearsay source, and was likely only paraded by the Trump team as grounds for military action
- There was likely significant psychological torture
- Damage to Warmbier's brain was uniform, consistent with lack of oxygen. Trauma to head would be asymmetrical
- The most likely hypothesis is that Warmbier attempted suicide after being crushed psychologically, and sentenced to 15 years, torching his ambitious life plan

tl;dr^2 - probably a freak series of events starting from a fairly benign act of stealing a poster drunk, through being psychologically crushed, to attempting suicide, ending in coma due to lack of oxygen and eventual death
 
Last edited:
LinktothePastGOAT

LinktothePastGOAT

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,879
Chittagong said:
GQ has produced a fantastic piece of investigative journalism to the tragic death of Otto Warmbier, the American detained by DPRK for stealing a poster

https://www.gq.com/story/otto-warmbier-north-korea-american-hostage-true-story

- Considering Otto's history, religion and ambition, it seems likely that his confession was forced
- Warmbier family reached Trump via targeted Fox News features after being stonewalled by Ivanka & co
- There was no physical evidence of physical torture, instead he seemed to have been well looked after
- DPRK historically hasn't physically tortured Western detainees as it would backfire
- The torture narrative is based on a single hearsay source, and was likely only paraded by the Trump team as grounds for military action
- There was likely significant psychological torture
- Damage to Warmbier's brain was uniform, consistent with lack of oxygen. Trauma to head would be asymmetrical
- The most likely hypothesis is that Warmbier attempted suicide after being crushed psychologically, and sentenced to 15 years, torching his ambitious life plan

tl;dr^2 - probably a freak series of events starting from a fairly benign act of stealing a poster drunk, through being psychologically crushed, to attempting suicide, ending in coma due to lack of oxygen and eventual death
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Honestly, I don't feel bad. If you're going to goto NK and commit a crime, I don't have much sympathy for you.
 
Mivey

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,121
LinktothePastGOAT said:
Honestly, I don't feel bad. If you're going to goto NK and commit a crime, I don't have much sympathy for you.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You think grabbing a poster is justifiable ground to getting put in prison? It was a dumb idea, and it's not unlikely he was drunk at the time, but how is it okay to lose your life over such a triviality?
Your lack of empathy is fucked up.
 
Volimar

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,939
That's a terrible story, only made worse because we know they've been doing this kind of stuff to their own people for generations.
 
Typhon

Typhon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,225
Portman answered that Otto appeared to have severe brain damage.

Cindy told news outlets that she imagined that might mean Otto was asleep or in a medically induced coma.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

In what universe does one think brain damage means sleeping?
 
WinFonda

WinFonda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,525
USA
I could see it. NK prob fed him all sorts of nonsense about how he was going to suffer, his life was ruined, he would never escape, etc. When in actuality he was a valuable bargaining chip. He believed them and attempted suicide. NK is still to blame for his death. And psychological torture is still torture.
 
Daitokuji

Daitokuji

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,602
Yikes, a drunken escapade ends up ending his life. Poor kid.

Though if the NK government wanted to kidnap him and use him as a bargaining chip, why did they even need the pretense of him stealing something? Why not just randomly kidnap tourists?
 
OP
OP
Chittagong

Chittagong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,793
London, UK
WinFonda said:
I could see it. NK prob fed him all sorts of nonsense about how he was going to suffer, his life was ruined, he would never escape, etc. When in actuality he was a valuable bargaining chip. He believed them and attempted suicide. NK is still to blame for his death. And psychological torture is still torture.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yep.

This goes to show that if you choose travel to these countries, you have to be extra hyper fucking mindful not to cock up when drunk.

The beers in DPRK are delicious but very strong and very inpure. A benign prank that might have seemed like a funny idea drunk might put in motion a chain of events that eventually puts you into a casket. No mucking about when visiting bad countries.
 
Mammoth Jones

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,437
New York
Some of y'all gotta learn the entire world can't be your playground. Some places you just don't go and just don't fuck with.

North Korea be one of those places. Jimmy Carter too old to be flying there to get mofos out.

Obviously dude didn't deserve any of this. Just sad his death is just another dire warning to arrogant westerners to stay the fuck out North Korea. They will take any excuse to fuck with visitors. Especially American ones.
 
Raein

Raein

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
980
Knowingly going to one of the worst dictatorships on the planet, and then committing a crime per their laws is just asking for a bad time. At some point the onus rests on you for making dumb decisions, regardless of how unjust the consequences are. Obviously he didn't deserve the severity of what happened to him, and it's a senseless way for someone's life to end, but I also really wish people would stop putting themselves in these situations in the first place. Apply a bit of pragmatism to your life decisions.
 

Deleted member 6573

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,852
Raein said:
Knowingly going to one of the worst dictatorships on the planet, and then committing a crime per their laws is just asking for a bad time. At some point the onus rests on you for making dumb decisions, regardless of how unjust the consequences are. Obviously he didn't deserve the severity of what happened to him, and it's a senseless way for someone's life to end, but I also really wish people would stop putting themselves in these situations in the first place. Apply a bit of pragmatism to your life decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yeah, it bothers me when people decide to go on these trips in the first place. Why would you willingly give thousands of dollars to such a disgusting regime just for some jollies?
 

99nikniht

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,352
LinktothePastGOAT said:
Honestly, I don't feel bad. If you're going to goto NK and commit a crime, I don't have much sympathy for you.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm not going to lie, I agree with this sentiment. There are a time and place to be on your best behavior as a westerner, and one of those times are when you're in a country like NK. Does the punishment fit the crime? hell the fuck no, but the dude is just swinging around gasoline around a big fire at that point. Do I feel sympathy towards the guy, yes, but did he do something that is colossally dumb? also yes.
 
OP
OP
Chittagong

Chittagong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,793
London, UK
Raein said:
Knowingly going to one of the worst dictatorships on the planet, and then committing a crime per their laws is just asking for a bad time. At some point the onus rests on you for making dumb decisions, regardless of how unjust the consequences are. Obviously he didn't deserve the severity of what happened to him, and it's a senseless way for someone's life to end, but I also really wish people would stop putting themselves in these situations in the first place. Apply a bit of pragmatism to your life decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

In his defense, I can well picture how this would have happened. I lived in that same hotel with the bowling lanes and the rotating restaurant and drank the same beers he did.

While being out and about during the day pretty quickly reminds you that you are in a place just short of Half-Life 2 opening level, being in that hotel can bring about a misguided sense of relaxation.

The guides will be more open and chatty in the bar, the hotel shop sells Coke, the building has got a big aquarium in the lobby, you feel like you can relax there after a day out that can be rather tense. So after a few beers you lose perspective and drop your hyper vigilance.
 
Cort

Cort

Member
Nov 4, 2017
4,399
I still take everything out of that country with a grain of salt. It was a dangerous expedition to that country but I have my suspicions that he actually did nothing wrong.
 
Luschient

Luschient

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,642
I feel like if he had attempted suicide that NK would have made that fact known, esp if they truly didn't torture him.
 

99nikniht

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,352
Cort said:
I still take everything out of that country with a grain of salt. It was a dangerous expedition to that country but I have my suspicions that he actually did nothing wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You could be right, but many westerners, American or not, have gone in and out of NK through China with no problem. I considered doing the same back when I was living in SK, but I figured that I better not poke the bear since I might be say something I shouldn't and get myself into trouble.
 
Charcoal

Charcoal

Member
Nov 2, 2017
7,792
I never connected the lack of oxygen to attempted suicide. Interesting article, and what happened is absolutely tragic.
 
Cort

Cort

Member
Nov 4, 2017
4,399
99nikniht said:
You could be right, but many westerners, American or not, have gone in and out of NK through China with no problem. I considered doing the same back when I was living in SK, but I figured that I better not poke the bear since I might be say something I shouldn't and get myself into trouble.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I keep replaying a scenario in my head where people could get abducted in China and taken as DPRK prisoners. They would be given confessions to read and they would read it in the hopes that they would get rescued. There's no way for the outside world to know what actually happened. What would be considered kidnapping is suddenly spun into "He was a Christian missionary attacking the DPRK!". I feel as if they can kidnap any one of their tourists at will and spin it as if they were spying on the DPRK. And we would never uncover the truth.
 
LinktothePastGOAT

LinktothePastGOAT

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,879
PhoenixDark said:
Gee I wonder what your opinions on police shootings are.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

How about you ask and not assume.

Going to a country like NK and stealing something you're asking for worst case scenario. I don't feel bad because he should have known better. Does that means i support what NK did? Ofcourse not. It means I don't have sympathy for someone who should have known better.
 
LinktothePastGOAT

LinktothePastGOAT

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,879
YuYu said:
Please be joking.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

No. I'm not. One can disagree with the response of NK and also not feel sympathy for the person that should have known better.

Not only did he choose to goto a country that is known to have concentration camps, is technically still at war with the U.S. and S.K., is led by a dictator who has his own family killed, and is the most closed off nation on earth, and has cameras all over. But then you go and STEAL something in the hotel that is being watched? And you want my sympathy? No.
 
Daitokuji

Daitokuji

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,602
Did he even steal the poster? The proof is:

North Korea would later release grainy CCTV camera footage of an unidentifiable figure removing a framed propaganda poster from a wall in a restricted area of the hotel, claiming it was Otto.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

And one of his trip-mates says that there was a 2 hour window that he couldn't be accounted for.
 
Luchashaq

Luchashaq

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
4,329
Mivey said:
You think grabbing a poster is justifiable ground to getting put in prison? It was a dumb idea, and it's not unlikely he was drunk at the time, but how is it okay to lose your life over such a triviality?
Your lack of empathy is fucked up.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I feel bad for his family, not for him. Might as well as killed himself drunk driving it was that level of stupid. He didn't deserve it but he put his family through hell because he was an idiot. They are the ones deserving of empathy.
 

Karasseram

Member
Jan 15, 2018
1,358
I mean when you travel to Nk you are financing a gruesome regime that would make Hitler blush so yeah. Not feeling that sympathetic towards him.
 
xbhaskarx

xbhaskarx

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,143
NorCal
LinktothePastGOAT said:
Honestly, I don't feel bad. If you're going to goto NK and commit a crime, I don't have much sympathy for you.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
LinktothePastGOAT said:
Going to a country like NK and stealing something you're asking for worst case scenario. I don't feel bad because he should have known better. Does that means i support what NK did? Ofcourse not. It means I don't have sympathy for someone who should have known better.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Based on that logic I assume if someone enters the US illegally (a crime, one that's in the general ballpark as stealing a freaking poster) and has their kids taken away from them (something that is already happening and is in the news), you have no sympathy because they should have known better?
 
LinktothePastGOAT

LinktothePastGOAT

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,879
xbhaskarx said:
Based on that logic I assume if someone enters the US illegally (a crime, one that's in the general ballpark as stealing a freaking poster) and has their kids taken away from them (something that is already happening and is in the news), you have no sympathy because they should have known better?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Again, no. The US isn't a dictatorship, have concentration camps, have govt support for putting people in lifelong concentration camps, and has a legal system that isn't bought and lid for by the dictator.

Nice try.
 

Deleted member 19003

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,809
Poor guy. Not sure I buy the suicide theory. That's giving too much benefit of the doubt to a regime that deserves not an ounce of it. NK is downright awful, and could have tried non lethal torture that went wrong and didn't leave a mark. Also he knew his parents and congressmen were working to get him out, I don't think he was all that hopeless. I'm sure he was told of previous Americans being released.
 
LinktothePastGOAT

LinktothePastGOAT

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,879
Peristerium said:
This is not funny. And if you're serious you really need to learn how to emphatize with others.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Who said I was being funny? I empathize and sympathize for his family. Him? Assuming he wasn't framed and he actually did steal it? Nope. Should have known better not only to visit NK but to commit a crime in NK with cameras everywhere.
 
FunkyMonkey

FunkyMonkey

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,419
LinktothePastGOAT said:
Honestly, I don't feel bad. If you're going to goto NK and commit a crime, I don't have much sympathy for you.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

this is disgusting

LinktothePastGOAT said:
Who said I was being funny? I empathize and sympathize for his family. Him? Assuming he wasn't framed and he actually did steal it? Nope. Should have known better not only to visit NK but to commit a crime in NK with cameras everywhere.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

giphy.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies.