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[Guardian] ‘Has this guy ever made a movie before?’ Francis Ford Coppola’s 40-year battle to film Megalopolis

kmfdmpig

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,555
Jarmel said:
And the guy they're referring to has literally made some of the best movies of all time. He was making all timers before they were born.
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And still he's acting like someone who doesn't have those experiences, which is what leads to the question. If 74 year old Dr. J. started to play in an NBA game and hoisted up airball after airball you might hear "has he ever played before?" as it's based on what he's doing now, not his total body of work.
 
LGHT_TRSN

LGHT_TRSN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,270
Jarmel said:
You'll have to excuse me if I don't take the valued input of some anonymous crew member about how the directorial process should be over a guy who has literally made multiple movies that are in the pantheon. He's probably washed up but at the same time like I want to see your credentials if you're making that kind of comment and judgment.
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I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone in the industry that thinks sitting around getting paid to do nothing while the director smokes pot in a trailer is necessary for the directorial process.
 
P-MAC

P-MAC

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Nov 15, 2017
4,587
Jarmel said:
The sexual harassment is obviously bad but who gives a fuck if he wastes everybody's time? It is his money and pet project.
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Saying "has this guy ever made a movie before" doesn't suggest anyone cares, they are just incredulous at how different his techniques are to modern ones and how he can't really play ball with them
 
Jarmel

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
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Oct 25, 2017
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kmfdmpig said:
And still he's acting like someone who doesn't have those experiences, which is what leads to the question. If 74 year old Dr. J. started to play in an NBA game and hoisted up airball after airball you might hear "has he ever played before?" as it's based on what he's doing now, not his total body of work.
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Basketball and directing aren't exactly the same thing. And if someone knew who Dr. J was and made that comment, I would also tell them to shut up.
 
Joe Shlabotnik

Joe Shlabotnik

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Oct 27, 2017
5,905
Jarmel said:
The sexual harassment is obviously bad but who gives a fuck if he wastes everybody's time? It is his money and pet project.
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They're not there to have their time wasted or be unable to do their jobs either. They want to be able to do the creative work they were hired to do.

They even said "it sounds crazy". They *obviously* know who he is. It's a frustrated joke about working for a director seemingly unable to give clear direction about anything.
 
Jarmel

Jarmel

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Oct 25, 2017
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Joe Shlabotnik said:
They're not there to have their time wasted or be unable to do their jobs either. They want to be able to do the creative work they were hired to do.

They even said "it sounds crazy". They *obviously* know who he is. It's a frustrated joke about working for a director seemingly unable to give clear direction about anything.
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He's literally paying them from his own funds. He gets to do whatever he wants, obviously within reason and non-harassment, with their time. It's clear he was making stuff up on the fly.
BossAttack said:
Watch that and everything will make sense:


View: https://youtu.be/pFYzVsrrPjE?si=K064LKIxPesX6l52
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Yea I'm thinking about this in terms of how Apocalypse Now went.
 
MadLaughter

MadLaughter

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,200
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buttzilla

buttzilla

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Sep 9, 2020
1,418
From what I hear about Volume work, a technique that requires weeks if not months of prep for artists to create locked-in assets (that "may" be able to have some finessing during the shoot such as moving a CG rock) , having a director that doesn't know what they want is the LAST type of filmmaker that should be utilizing a volume.

So yeah, green screen and come up with designs later. Sorry you don't get to play with the new toys Francis, but until you learn how to properly use them, back to green screen world.
 
Alavard

Alavard

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,407
Feels like the mention of the sexual harassment on set is getting a little buried there.
 
painey

painey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,638
They did a lot of filming around Georgia Tech here and I was surprised at how long they were here. In Atlanta you are used to seeing shoots, but they usually last a day or two and they are out, but there was 2 weeks of shooting at one area.. thought it was odd. My ex is actually in the movie as a bit part player and saw it at a screening months ago and said she loved it, but she's probably a bit biased.
 
Tobor

Tobor

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Oct 25, 2017
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Spacejaws

Spacejaws

"This guy are sick" of the One Winged Slayer
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Oct 27, 2017
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Joe Shlabotnik said:
They're not there to have their time wasted or be unable to do their jobs either. They want to be able to do the creative work they were hired to do.

They even said "it sounds crazy". They *obviously* know who he is. It's a frustrated joke about working for a director seemingly unable to give clear direction about anything.
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Never been on any kind of set, minor or major, have you? A lot of it is waiting around for the pieces to get into place, often one department can't do shit until another one is in place waiting around is normal. Basically they get paid to be able to go from 0 to 100 throughout the day.
 
bdbdbd

bdbdbd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,921
Jarmel said:
This is insanely disrespectful. Like who the hell are you to be making this comment? What movies have you made?
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??? That's why they start by saying, "This sounds crazy to say..." They fully realize the man's former achievements, which is why they had such a hard time explaining the disconnect between his former work and his current work.
 
Mary Celeste

Mary Celeste

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Oct 25, 2017
12,410
I am looking forward to seeing the result of an insane old shithead spending all of his money making a weird thing
 
beelulzebub

beelulzebub

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Oct 25, 2017
4,680
Jarmel said:
You'll have to excuse me if I don't take the valued input of some anonymous crew member about how the directorial process should be over a guy who has literally made multiple movies that are in the pantheon. He's probably washed up but at the same time like I want to see your credentials if you're making that kind of comment and judgment.
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I'm gonna assume you haven't worked a set or been involved in post with someone who drags the process out and adds a ton of work in the process if you're holding this kind of judgment and resentment for crew blowing off steam with a comment they know is absurd to say in the moment but also holds some grain of truth to it.

If you HAVE worked a set or post, everyone else will know your type and you will be avoided like the plague lol
 
Reym

Reym

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Jul 15, 2019
2,702
Jarmel said:
He's probably washed up but at the same time like I want to see your credentials if you're making that kind of comment and judgment.
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This is just a bad argument. You don't need to be a 5-star chef to know the food stinks.
No one is above criticism. The true greats should already know that.
 
Jarmel

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
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Oct 25, 2017
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Reym said:
This is just a bad argument. You don't need to be a 5-star chef to know the food stinks.
No one is above criticism. The true greats should already know that.
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There's a difference between saying a meal sucks and saying has this guy ever cooked a professional meal in his life before.
 
Disco

Disco

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,539
the sexual harrassment is terrible, crew members crying about him using in camera tricks instead of cgi and wack complaints like that are dumb though.
 
ExInferus

ExInferus

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Nov 14, 2017
964
Completely baffling. 120 mil of his own money, a passion project 40 years in the making and no vision or plan on how to actually bring this movie to life?
 
Griffy

Griffy

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Oct 25, 2017
1,028
Jarmel said:
There's a difference between saying a meal sucks and saying has this guy ever cooked a professional meal in his life before.
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Surely you understand that the entire point of the statement is "it's hard to believe that the guy who directed some of the best films of all time is behaving like this on set."
 
Tfritz

Tfritz

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Oct 25, 2017
13,529
Disco said:
the sexual harrassment is terrible, crew members crying about him using in camera tricks instead of cgi and wack complaints like that are dumb though.
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did you read the quote because the issue wasn't "he didn't want to use CGI" it's "he wanted to use volume, which requires extensive collaboration so the effects can be created before shooting, and then refused to actually settle on any specific concepts that needed to be finished before they began shooting because that's how volume works, so they ended up just using green screens anyway"
 
Disco

Disco

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,539
Tfritz said:
did you read the quote because the issue wasn't "he didn't want to use CGI" it's "he wanted to use volume, which requires extensive collaboration so the effects can be created before shooting, and then refused to actually settle on any specific concepts that needed to be finished before they began shooting because that's how volume works, so they ended up just using green screens anyway"
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I was referring to this quote

View: https://x.com/SSheil/status/1790333701697511641
 
Lashes.541

Lashes.541

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Dec 18, 2017
1,823
Roseburg Oregon
VAD said:
Making women sit on your lap is old school? Like that was something that people did back then?
What the fuck…
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I got horrible news for you, that's the tip of the iceberg, back in the 60 and 70 my mom was a waitress, she has said in those days in a crowded restaurant guys would just reach up and grab her ass and she had to just act like nothing happened or be fired. I have heard the same thing from multiple women and worse.
 
noodlesoup

noodlesoup

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Feb 21, 2018
2,451
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Spacejaws

Spacejaws

"This guy are sick" of the One Winged Slayer
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Oct 27, 2017
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noodlesoup said:
Don't know, man. This just seems disrespectful to VFX artists.

It is actually not that rare for CGI to be used in place for simple things during filming; oftentimes, it allows for more flexibility, it keeps the costs low, and it saves everybody time that could be needed elsewhere.
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At the same time if the directors saying they specifically want to have something a certain look or effect simply going "lol we can do that in 15 minutes" is pretty disrespectful.

No one is going to go up to George Miller and laugh in his face when he tries to do real car stuntwork because it's difficult and wastes time that could just be computer generated. I don't think anyone sane can argue that movies haven't been plagued over the last 25 odd years with the mentality "we can just do it in post" with not always great results.

Even Marvel movie budgets are putting out really garish CGI. Personally happy to celebrate any movie that tries any other kind of visual effect rather than defaulting to cgi for everything.
 
noodlesoup

noodlesoup

Member
Feb 21, 2018
2,451
Chicago, IL
Spacejaws said:
At the same time if the directors saying they specifically want to have something a certain look or effect simply going "lol we can do that in 15 minutes" is pretty disrespectful.

No one is going to go up to George Miller and laugh in his face when he tries to do real car stuntwork because it's difficult and wastes time that could just be computer generated. I don't think anyone sane can argue that movies haven't been plagued over the last 25 odd years with the mentality "we can just do it in post" with not always great results.

Even Marvel movie budgets are putting out really garish CGI. Personally happy to celebrate any movie that tries any other kind of visual effect rather than defaulting to cgi for everything.
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A projector image and complex stuntwork are two vastly different things.
 
beelulzebub

beelulzebub

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,680
Spacejaws said:
At the same time if the directors saying they specifically want to have something a certain look or effect simply going "lol we can do that in 15 minutes" is pretty disrespectful.

No one is going to go up to George Miller and laugh in his face when he tries to do real car stuntwork because it's difficult and wastes time that could just be computer generated. I don't think anyone sane can argue that movies haven't been plagued over the last 25 odd years with the mentality "we can just do it in post" with not always great results.

Even Marvel movie budgets are putting out really garish CGI. Personally happy to celebrate any movie that tries any other kind of visual effect rather than defaulting to cgi for everything.
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Fury Road had a significant amount of CG in it. There's plenty of practical in there too but nearly all of it is accentuated heavily by CG, and one reason why audiences largely didn't notice or think about it and why this theoretical crew member wouldn't be questioning George Miller's judgement on-set is because he has a clear vision of what he wants and has assembled a team of stuntwork and VFX professionals whom he trusts, and therefore they trust him, to accomplish it.

None of this is to denigrate Coppola as a filmmaker, mind you. I'm looking forward to seeing Megalopolis someday and hope it releases in some form or another.

Dracula is a beautiful film, and lowkey perhaps my favorite of his entire repertoire because of his commitment to filming everything in-camera. But important distinction in this case between Megalopolis and Dracula in this case is Dracula befits a vision of commiting to old school techniques because the film is a love letter and homage to that era of filmmaking. It's a straightforward process to borrow those techniques because they've already been established and proven. It's hard not to read stories like this and fear that he is working at odds with his crew since Megalopolis is notably more high-tech than Dracula, and thus these kinds of conversations and disagreements on-set don't strike me as inappropriate as a result.

Also Marvel's CG is more than anything a consequence of a studio that sets deadlines years in advance and frequently changes their mind in post. If you haven't watched it yet, The Movie Rabbit Hole's series on the subject is very illuminating:
youtu.be

"NO CGI" is really just INVISIBLE CGI (1/4)

Episode 3 is out! Watch this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGPHy3yWE08Episode 2 is out! Watch this next:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdMAEtLrPScDid you ...
youtu.be youtu.be
 
Pirateluigi

Pirateluigi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,967
Tobor said:
The screening that was done for major film execs a couple of months ago contained a sequence where a live actor interacted with events on screen. For reals.

Obviously, it's going to have be cut or altered for any kind of wide release and streaming.
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This is like The Real Space Jam 2 levels and I love it
 
Yahsper

Yahsper

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,579
Jarmel said:
You'll have to excuse me if I don't take the valued input of some anonymous crew member about how the directorial process should be over a guy who has literally made multiple movies that are in the pantheon. He's probably washed up but at the same time like I want to see your credentials if you're making that kind of comment and judgment.
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Why are you going so hard in on this comment? First of all, it's perfectly clear what he's trying to convey. The crew member say it himself: it seems crazy but it feels like this. The situation is baffling exactly because of who he is and what he's made in the past.

Second, you don't know the crew member. Maybe stop being so disrespectful to crew members who are often just as responsible for making a good film as the director is. Hell, many movies are amazing DESPITE their directors. You don't know what you're talking about and in your weird quest to defend a director who harasses women and wastes his own money and other people's time, you're managing to offend the other 99% of people making films.
 
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