Sanox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,618
No surprise they won't change shit.

Dev answers are just repeating what was said in previous interviews with an added "we heard you but no"

They full insist on going this route with this game despite basically every design decision being awful or contradictory.
 
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VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,013
Columbia, SC
Of course they shouldn't give in to every fan demand, but when the feedback is unanimously negative towards some points, you should probably wonder if there isn't an issue somewhere. And it's not a comprehension issue there.

This. Doesn't matter what your vision is as developer if an overwhelming number of people are not enjoying the experience of some aspects of your game. The lobby system in particular is crap that somehow gets progressively worse with each new title.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,859
I dunno if this was exclusive to the PC version of Xrd (i think there was some difference with the console version), but there you just had those options as well as the more elaborate lobbies with characters running around.
Depends on which Xrd you're referring to specifically. The lobbies in -SIGN- were straightforward with a UI simulating arcade cabs and picture icons representing players, -REVELATOR-/Rev 2 adopted the 3D avatar system.
 

Deleted member 13560

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,087
Baiken will be in the game eventually. The real question is... Are they going to include her in the initial roster or use her as DLC in order to make make money.

She's probably the most popular character from the series.
 

Nightfall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,002
Germany
Of course they shouldn't give in to every fan demand, but when the feedback is unanimously negative towards some points, you should probably wonder if there isn't an issue somewhere. And it's not a comprehension issue there.

Yeah. But it helped that Nioh got mostly positive feedback from the first alpha, which is not the case here.
You're right. Though I got the impression while they defend their vision they will try to improve (especially the lobbies)
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,767
So they're keeping the crap looking lobby, well done.

"The hit counter is so big because in previous games, it's been difficult to see the number of hits due to being hidden by the character models (or vice-versa). This is an attempt at fixing that issue." Yeah, no.
These people are looking immensely incompetent when it comes to UI design.
 

Sanox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,618
There's a line that the director of Nioh said a few years back.

Really makes you think about Nioh's durability system and if Nioh would have become as succesful if they held on to it.

Problem with Strive is like every damn design decision is a case of Nioh durability system. Core gameplay, mechanics, UI, lobby
 

MechaX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,119
And that's where the usual debate starts: should developers deliver their unique vision or just deliver a best of public survey product? I personally think the former with a sprinkle of the latter. Just giving in to every fan demand will seriously mess with the final product.

In situations like the lobby, they probably should strongly consider changing that regardless of their "vision" because the game is going to be dead on arrival if the game ships with that shit, and it wouldn't have been like they weren't warned about it.
 

Nocturno

Member
Oct 27, 2017
860
After having the best FG this generation with Xrd, it's baffling that they are taking the Street Fighter V route.

At least they are keeping a close ear to fans but I don't think they want to change the core game at all.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,027
Tokyo
And that's where the usual debate starts: should developers deliver their unique vision or just deliver a best of public survey product? I personally think the former with a sprinkle of the latter. Just giving in to every fan demand will seriously mess with the final product.

I understand developer vision for their creation but I am not convinced at all about their lobby for online. It is indeed a deal breaker for me unless they can prove its brilliance in some fashion.
 

2shd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,737
I'm so torn on this game. I want to suport it due to the rollback, but there are so many design elements in the beta that put me off, and it doesn't sound like they're looking to budge all that much.

I'd be buying it to play online and the lobby system alone is a deal breaker.
 

BadWolf

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,148
After having the best FG this generation with Xrd, it's baffling that they are taking the Street Fighter V route.

At least they are keeping a close ear to fans but I don't think they want to change the core game at all.

Would you say that about the very first Xrd (Sign?) though?

It took them years to get to Rev 2.

Strive is a new starting point basically, it will evolve and improve from there.
 

SliceSabre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,556
Good to see Japan giving the loud shootout for the return of Bridget and him making the NA list as well.
 

Bradford

terminus est
Member
Aug 12, 2018
5,423
bridget and zappa were the two characters I wanted back the most so it's exciting to see at least japan voting for bridget
 

ThatMeanScene

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,012
Miami, FL
Arc Sys is just doubling down on all of their questionable decisions (except for the UI). Feels bad man. I hope the community keeps voicing their concerns.
 

Bob White

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,978
If any version of that fucked up lobby system make it in, I'm just not buying the game. What the fuck are they smoking?
 

Naga

Alt account
Banned
Aug 29, 2019
7,850
Arc Sys is just doubling down on all of their questionable decisions (except for the UI).
They're doubling down for the UI too.

The only thing they've implied to change is to make it more "rocking"/GG-esque. They've said they also want to keep big numbers, RISC gauge moving, etc.
 

ThatMeanScene

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,012
Miami, FL
They're doubling down for the UI too.

The only thing they've implied to change is to make it more "rocking"/GG-esque. They've said they also want to keep big numbers, RISC gauge moving, etc.
You're right. FML.

I hope everyone who reads the post completes the opinion form linked at the bottom. This isn't a conversation when they're waving away people's concerns why they just the mystical new player they are not going to get.
 

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,809
Looks like they're sticking with their dumb new Gatling system. It sounds like they acknowledge that the old system was easier but are convinced that actually this one is easier. I don't know how you can play this and come to that conclusion, wtf? Learning so many mini routes was such a pain in the ass. And are they actually sticking with that awful lobby system? They really wanna make that work? Even if they get the matchmaking to work, it's still the ugliest thing I've ever seen in my life.
 

Kaguya

Member
Jun 19, 2018
6,447
ASW need to make up their mind already:
- RISC gauge, an important mechanic critical to how Guilty Gear works... Lets hide it to not distract new players with too much information
- Combo counter numbers and every other less useful info than RISC... We made this the size of entire screen because you blind motherfuckers don't notice it:
PSfTlW1.jpg
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
28,255
I've said it before- Japanese developers are stubborn, but Japanese fighting game developers are especially stubborn.
 

Gambit61

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,271
RIP Zappa and A.B.A, was hoping we at least got Zappa after that new design popped up.
 

Deleted member 1102

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,295
ASW need to make up their mind already:
- RISC gauge, an important mechanic critical to how Guilty Gear works... Lets hide it to not distract new players with too much information
- Combo counter numbers and every other less useful info than RISC... We made this the size of entire screen because you blind motherfuckers don't notice it:
PSfTlW1.jpg

I don't know how anyone can look at this shit and think it looks good and/or helps new players. Vision or not this is abhorrent to look at.
 

Iori Loco

Member
Nov 10, 2017
2,288
Damn, people didn't voted Zappa, Venom or Testament, FeelsBadMan. Hope they get in regardless. Also, is not surprising that pretty much only GG fans signed in for the beta, I used like 4 mails and all of them got a code, which is kind of sad, mostly due the fact that they don't know what makes their own game appealing and they are tweaking everything people already liked instead of targeting what they've been told players are not enjoying.

ASW need to make up their mind already:
- RISC gauge, an important mechanic critical to how Guilty Gear works... Lets hide it to not distract new players with too much information
- Combo counter numbers and every other less useful info than RISC... We made this the size of entire screen because you blind motherfuckers don't notice it:

Seriously. Ironically, the number of hits in the combo is only useful if you are aware of the guts and R.I.S.C systems but they made those critical mechanics as invisivle as possible while highlighting something so dumb. Ishiwatari, pls.
 

TimeFire

Avenger
Nov 26, 2017
9,625
Brazil
The part about UI is the stupidest thing I've read in a while. Goddamn. Just remove the mechanic if it scares off the mythical new player so much
 

Blizz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,456
I know it was a beta but I still find it funny reading the post knowing 95% of the players had played GG before, just puts things in a certain perspective.
 

ggdeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
758
This response post is pretty sad to read. I was really hopeful about the delay because I thought they would see the response from the beta to adjust their design and makes fixes, but their responses to these concerns just seem so out of touch to the impressions of the beta. The idea that gatlings are gone and replaced with a stricter system makes no sense and is one of the most wholly unappealing parts of the design.

"Mr. Ishiwatari: One important concept in this game is placing greater importance on choosing your moves based on the current situation."

Damage proration already served its purpose by reducing the damage of combos started from light moves. So instead of getting a big damage combo or a smaller damaged combo, it's all or nothing. The gatling system also allowed some freeform, improvisational conversions in neutral situations which I always felt was fun. Sometimes you get a stray hit and can convert that into something more in an unexpected moment, that was really fun. but with the restrictions on combos (especially in the air) that's gone too.

I also thought this was pretty funny: "Mr. Katano: Also, we are planning to further increase the level of freedom with combos compared to previous entries in the series. While this may seem contradictory to the reduced length of combos and the restrictions on gatlings, I believe we can make this happen through a combination of other mechanics. "

The answer about UI also came off as just nonsense.

"We've made it so that the Burst icon moves as the health bar drains in order to minimize the amount of eye movement required to check each gauge."
What? The gauge is literally moving across the screen. It takes more effort to track it now. When it's in one place you always know where it is and there is no barrier to viewing what resources you have access to.

"We've intentionally made the R.I.S.C. gauge less visible to reduce the number of gauges that first-time players try to be aware of."
LMAO. Ah yes, RISC is supposedly way more important now, so we made it almost imperceptible so new players wouldn't get scared. So they want to reduce the amount of eye movement to make the screen easier to read, throw up huge ass text you let you know when you hit a counter, but intentionally make an important gauge extremely small and hard to see. What is going on?

Sticking with that awful lobby system is just the cherry on top. After having played the beta and now read these responses I think it's safe to say that I strongly dislike the direction this game is going. What a shame.
 

Mik317

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,877
if they wanted something different from XRD, then cool....probably should have been a new IP tho.
 

FinKL

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,017
As someone that mainly played SF, coming in to Strive felt great to me, I guess I'm the 5% of the problem. Don't know why they want to keep the lobby system, but it sounds like "hey guys, you all are complaining about it because of technical problems, it will be fine lol"
Bridget is a lock along with Johnny and Baiken I'd guess? If anything they put Baiken as first DLC.

Maybe they can put out more demos and get the exact same feedback again
 

Moara

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,101
I know it was a beta but I still find it funny reading the post knowing 95% of the players had played GG before, just puts things in a certain perspective.
Well, it was a limited beta that required an opt in. Doesn't surprise me the people that would be the most interested are existing fans.
 

Tyrant Rave

Has A Pretty Cool Jacket
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,696
Would you say that about the very first Xrd (Sign?) though?

It took them years to get to Rev 2.

Strive is a new starting point basically, it will evolve and improve from there.
yeah I liked Sign from launch. it was a really good base and felt like a really accessible version of XX.

Strive so far does not fill me with any confidence as someone who has been playing the series for a good chunk of my life. I'm not happy or particularly surprised by the survey responses. I respect they want to do something new, but I've kind of accepted this one isn't made for me.
 

Kaguya

Member
Jun 19, 2018
6,447
Would you say that about the very first Xrd (Sign?) though?

It took them years to get to Rev 2.

Strive is a new starting point basically, it will evolve and improve from there.
I would say yes, Sign was fun from day one, only real issues it had was with balance, and that's about what you reasonably expect from post launch support to mainly fix. Barely any of the criticism this game get is about balance, what most people are asking for isn't going to change by post launch support unless ASW fundamentally change their plans for the game.
 

Fawz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,722
Montreal
It took them so long to provide their take on the BETA I thought it was never coming. It's nice they're opening up some lines of communication, but that was a very dissapointing recap of how the BETA went. Almost all issues they chose to bring up boiled down to them brushing aside saying people missunderstand and just have to change their expectations. I'm sure just about every aspect of the game will improve by launch, but this sure doesn't build confidence that it'll be to the meaninful degree that people want. I was hoping that with the delay they would at least be willing to go back to the drawing board with the most negative aspect of their game; the lobby system
 

Deleted member 5593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,635
If Ramlethal is in, I'm out. Done with incessantly fetishized 90% naked prepubescent girls in gaming.