The way they described it iirc is Chief doesn't remember what happens when he's brought back so the story, at least in the beginning, is about figuring out what is going on.
Halo Infinite - Campaign Overview (October 25th - 6am PT / 9am ET / 3pm CET)
- Thread starter Akai
- Start date
I'd love to know more about why you think fan reaction to Halo 4 is to blame for not continuing with Halo 4s approach to Chief and Cortana's relationship considering 343 killed that take on Cortana at the end of the game.
mind you it was Halo 4 that foreshadowed the UNSC replacing Cortana with another Cortana model…
I am a diehard and have played all the games countless times. I would also appreciate this ha.
Dude what are you talking about. Cortana dying at the end of Halo 4 is a major part of the dynamic that 343 wanted to explore with Chief in regards to Cortana.
I think that the backlash for Halo 4 was primarily to do with its MP aspect, with its ordnance drops. In terms of SP, some folk were not too happy with John-117 showing feelings funnily enough. However, I thoroughly enjoyed the story. That said, I also read the books and comics etc. But I could see how individuals who didn't read the Forerunner Trilogy would be lost.
The general story at the moment, has a lot of threads that need to come together or be resolved.
- We have The Banished, who were introduced in Halo Wars 2
- The Spirit of Dawn story needs to be further in Halo Infinite
- We have Cortana and the Domain that needs explaining
- The Mantle of Responsibility etc...
- We have the business with The Precursors/Flood that needs expanding on
- Other minor threads, like Fireteam Osiris etc.
I'm aware that the next big Halo campaign after Infinite will likely have other biomes, but in the campaign that launches in December there isn't any, unless they've kept them hidden away. That's disappointing.
Right, and Cortana dying and being potentially replaced by a faux- Cortana was a part of that theme.
So I'm asking you why you believe 343 continuing with a theme from Halo 4 is the result of backlash against Halo 4.
It seems to me they are quite literally picking up where Halo 4 left of in terms of the chief- Cortana relationship.
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There was some backlash to the portrayal of the chief/Cortana relationship, but the biggest gripe against the narrative was that the central conflict was centered around a gigantic retcon of human history. The 3 novels it would take for players to get invested in that conflict was stuffed into a single deus ex machina cutscene and bookended with encounters with the most generic antagonist imaginable.
But somehow Halo fans are to blame for all of 343s writing decisions.
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Do you all think we'll get a story trailer of sorts at the Nov 15 event?
At this point, I gotta say I'm satisfied. With the one caveat that only one biome is a little disappointing, but I can live with it. At the moment, the last thing I want is a great marketing campaign from now til launch. One of the best things about Halo!
At this point, I gotta say I'm satisfied. With the one caveat that only one biome is a little disappointing, but I can live with it. At the moment, the last thing I want is a great marketing campaign from now til launch. One of the best things about Halo!
Whats up with this new trend of blaming *minority of fans* for corporate story decisions? It's 343s story, full stop.
I think the story is missing a Johnson character more than anything. Bungie did a really good job in him balancing the gravity of the situation with appropriate levity. He is very sorely missed for me. He was neither melodramatic nor quippy.
We will probably get a launch trailer either at that event or a week after since it will be 2-3 weeks before the game actually comes out. Whether it will be a story trailer we will have to wait and see.
So, with the big campaign re-reval out of the way - makes me wonder if we're getting a campaign themed blog post for October in just a few days going over much of what was seen yesterday. Also curious what this means for the Nov 15th anniversary event.
The thing I'm by far the most disappointed by is New Cortana. She is so incredibly lame.
So you make your entire trilogy (or whatever it ends up being) about Cortana, her fall and her relationship to master chief and how important they are for each other. And then, after she was ripped away from him and turns into a villain...you just give Master Chief a new AI that looks and sounds almost exactly like Cortana?? And you make her the most anime trope ever, the endearing, naive cute girl everyone loves? "Maybe it's a friend!". Come on.
The novels are full of interesting, fascinating AIs. Did you know that they can take whatever form they chose? Probably not, because in the game they either have to be young, hot women or, if they get really fancy, men. This could've been their change to give MC, if they have to give him one, a really different AI! One that challenges him and presents a completely new dynamic compared to what was done before.
Instead, they just make Cortana but cuter. I'm kind of dreading my expectation that she will somehow fuse with Old Cortana at the end or something along those lines, so that they can just give you Cortana back and basically reset and ignore the entire dynamic and story built so far. But even if they don't do that: It just undermines this entire storyline. Why even go through any of this if you're only idea is "Uh...just..give him another Cortana I guess?"
They make a point of presenting these AIs as infinitely complex constructs with as many different forms. And what do we get in the games?
You seem to be misunderstanding her entire purpose. She's a surrogate for new players to the franchise and her naivety puts her on the opposite end of the spectrum of the actual Cortana. Her role is to not be Cortana while also being on the same levels as her and then be the vessel for new players to get acquainted with the current status quo of the universe.
I mean think about it, to make sure she can go toe to toe with Cortana, she HAS to be made from the same genetic material. Halsey is considered the smartest human alive and is the material that Cortana was made from. Of course, they would use that material to then make this new AI. However, unlike Cortana, her only purpose was to trap 1 enemy and hold her. Her need for knowledge of anything external (such as why Cortana is bad and what specifies is considered unfriendly) is irrelevant.
Plus you have the fact that the UNSC basically stopped usage of near all smart AI. Making a new one that is well informed to stop Cortana is almost a bigger liability to the UNSC. For all intents and purposes, a naive smart ai was their best shot
Your examples of Serena and Isabelle further prove that point. Both those AI (one of which is dead) were designed for larger and more varied tasks that required said information. Why use an AI that is being useful elsewhere and may not be strong enough given its not made of Halseys genetic material. They also run into the issue, as mentioned prior, of not having a surrogate for those that dont know whats going on. Chief works to an extent, but he still has knowledge of history not present in ininite. As a result, he is not a great surrogate.
Of course, you can dislike her Jen Taylors delivery and think shes being cute as a result (kind of makes sense why as naivety tends to come with children which people find cute), but I dont think there is any other route they could have gone that would have worked. Its on you that you associate naivety with cuteness (most people do though). The goal though wasnt to be cute as you infer, it was to be naive of the realities around her to be a surrogate for some players (which is extremely important for a soft reboot)
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I really don't think clearing out bases with RPG style character progression is a natural evolution of CE.
Did you convince yourself that this game is nothing more than clearing out bases?
this is hardly "RPG style progression". Players will be picking up largely optional gadgets that allow for more creativity with how they approach the sandbox.
CE at its best was a sandbox shooter... and with Infinite they appear to be doubling down on that.
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The poster you're engaging with has been arguing that Infinite has been UBISOFT-ified for almost an entire day now and is seemingly unwilling to contextualize any developments HI is making to its gameplay systems within the framework past Halo games have set up. Just a heads up.
The more I watch it on my OLED, the more the fragments of my brain on the floor I need to recollect.
I would imagine they are talking about the fact that the Forerunners aren't ancient humans but a separate race entirely.
That isn't a retcon though, the terminals in Halo 3 said as much.
Guilty Sparks was just raging mad. The actual documentation in the game from actual living breathing Forerunners at the time clearly showed they were not humans.
I am assuming that that the can of worms the person is trying to open up.
Cortana herself suggested that they would replace her after she fell into Rampancy during the events of Halo 4, even mentioning that it could be another Cortana model. To which Chief exclaimed "That's not going to happen!"The thing I'm by far the most disappointed by is New Cortana. She is so incredibly lame.
So you make your entire trilogy (or whatever it ends up being) about Cortana, her fall and her relationship to master chief and how important they are for each other. And then, after she was ripped away from him and turns into a villain...you just give Master Chief a new AI that looks and sounds almost exactly like Cortana?? And you make her the most anime trope ever, the endearing, naive cute girl everyone loves? "Maybe it's a friend!". Come on.
The novels are full of interesting, fascinating AIs. Did you know that they can take whatever form they chose? Probably not, because in the game they either have to be young, hot women or, if they get really fancy, men. This could've been their change to give MC, if they have to give him one, a really different AI! One that challenges him and presents a completely new dynamic compared to what was done before.
Instead, they just make Cortana but cuter. I'm kind of dreading my expectation that she will somehow fuse with Old Cortana at the end or something along those lines, so that they can just give you Cortana back and basically reset and ignore the entire dynamic and story built so far. But even if they don't do that: It just undermines this entire storyline. Why even go through any of this if you're only idea is "Uh...just..give him another Cortana I guess?"
They make a point of presenting these AIs as infinitely complex constructs with as many different forms. And what do we get in the games?
I think there is something deeper at play here, both narratively and thematically, that the cutesy & naive AI companion at face value is obscuring. Personally, I think 343 could be exploring John's ongoing grief as to the loss and betrayal at the hands of Cortana - to replace her with something so obviously similar speaks to his brokenness and his humanity.
I think it is fair to question if 343 is just making Cortana 2.0 and leaving it at that - but I don't think that is the case. I think there is something going on. I am not familiar with the outside lore on this subject so perhaps I am missing something
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I feel like there is 2 camps.
One camp of players who took Guilty Sparks statement as the truth
and the other camp of players who read through the Terminals for the actual truth.
While yes, Humanity = Forerunners was once a thing that was planned and debated at Bungie, by the time Halo 3 released with it's terminals they had settled on them not being the same.
I remember in 2001 originally playing through CE listening to Sparks ramblings about being ill prepared for containment and him seemingly recognising my combat suit and what grade it was. Wondering how he could know. Was super cool and freaky. Unfortunately trying to elaborate on that kind of lore ends up with a tonne of mess and shark jumping.
To be fair it wasn't so much that he recognized the MJOLNIR armor itself but rather could tell that it was Power Armor and then could further tell from that what grade it would be if compared to Forerunners own.
Honestly though Guilty Sparks had probably the biggest glow up in the EU by them actually giving him history and making him more than just a plot device into an actual characters with an arc and such. Still need to read Kelly Gay's novels that feature him since they're universally praised as being some of the best Halo novels thus far.
You know what, I got all of her Halo works on my desk. This week I finally start working through them.
The concept of ancient humanity.
Forerunner not being human wasn't some revelation that humanity had coexisted with Forerunner, and subsequently got de-evolved. For all we know humans were descended from Forerunner.
Also the assumption that people can follow your plot thanks to optional hidden lore from previous games isn't exactly great story telling.
"Let's see what your power armor can do now, big man!"Maybe Swole GS will finally meet MC again.
That still isn't a retcon unless there was specifically somewhere in the story that said: "Ancient Humanity was never space fairing". All of the lore (at the time) we had was from the final days of the Forerunner Empire, none from before the Flood-Forerunner War. It was a literal blank canvas for what happened before.
I feel like "retcon" is becoming: "Story did something I didn't like" and instead of being "Story actually rewrote it's events to make something happen."
The Banished Rise Video
Maybe Swole GS will finally meet MC again.
I would love it.
His Point of Light art is a lot better imho.
I think it would be a good thing to add as future content if it is not in the base campaign.Maybe Swole GS will finally meet MC again.
Agreed. The whole thing feels so sterile. Like action figures shooting nerf guns at each other.
Trailer gives me Far Cry: Halo Edition vibes. Hope I'm wrong.
OP
OP
who says I didn't like it?
prior to the Ancient Humanity reveal the history of humanity would reasonably be assumed that we evolved on earth after being seeded following the firing of the ring.
343 changed all of that in a cutscene. When it's such a monumental change that it deserved more. Like, no one in the universe knew that Humans were an ancient space faring race, then after the reveal, no one even cared. It should have been mind-blowing.
retcon doesn't just describe rewriting of established lore. It's new information that imposes new interpretations of previously described events.
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Humanity (AFAIK) even pre-Halo still evolved on Earth. It's the reason why the Forerunners banished them to it.
I do think 343i should have done a better job in Halo 4 to get people in on the whole idea and dedicated at least a section of the story for people to understand it better.
That being said it wasn't Halo 4 to specifically reveal that (even if it may seem like to people who only play the games), Halo: Cryptum which released a year before Halo 4 actually went really in-depth on the whole thing.
I have a feeling that the original Halo 5 probably would have gone way more in-depth with it than the Halo 5 that we got but alas.
