Samara

Member
Oct 25, 2017
407
Québec
edit: I read that wrong and thought I was in trouble with a mod (Doppie) .

Gwoooorl.....

As I told my husband, he better not show our kids any of his childhood shows or books, because I sure as hell knew they were problematic for me as a little girl.

Damn, if only I had Moana when I was younger.
 
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Madness

Member
Oct 25, 2017
793
The Friends thing is surprising to me. I guess where you grow up colors your views. It isn't odd to me to assume 4 white people who knew each other from high school in Long Island move to New York and remain friends and get 2 more white roommates. My high school was somewhat racially divided by the end of the senior year. Indo-Canadians hung out with themselves, white people with themselves, Chinese Canadians with themselves.

I am of the reverse mindset. It always weirds me out when they throw in the token minority as a way to show diversity. I guess it's better to do that. But sometimes when I watched the Walking Dead I was thinking, in deep Georgia are people really going to band together, be as welcoming to people of color, LGBT individuals in a zombie apocalypse like the show portrays. Friends to me is realer than a Community where you think a rich white guy, a dorky black guy, a weird Palestinian guy, a nerdy jewish girl, a mother figure black woman all become friends. That doesn't happen. 2017 tells us this. I live in what many consider one of the most multicultural hubs in the world. All I see is increasing ethnic segregation.

I also accept my worldview is characterized by already dominant white supremacy and white proliferation however. I can envision a day though when people will say that having single ethnicity families is weird on television.
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,759
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/01/showbiz/tv/tv-kids-self-esteem/index.html

Literally, watching tv shows all about white people is unhealthy, specifically for children. People not consuming all white mass media is not what's toxic here, that's pure bullshit from a ridiculous but typical mind state. Turns out, when you consume too much mass media made by and for a hegemonic group, it's literally harmful.

De-colonizing your mind and watching the media you consume is self preservation. "Turning your brain off" and letting one group of people help shape your world view, while pretending people like you exist or matter is dumb as fuck.
 

Nintex

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
672
Er. Did you just make a post decrying racial stereotypes in TV, only to make your own inflammatory racial stereotype? O.o
See how easy it is to use the 'wrong' words by accident?
As for my comment just yesterday I told someone: "Wow EA got murdered on the internet over Battlefront loot boxes" and no one bats an eye. I understand the sensitivity but that doesn't help with advocating for the diversity.

In Deus Ex for example they did a really bad african american character in Human Revolution. I don't know what they were thinking with that one but it wasn't handled very well.
Deus Ex Mankind Divided? Hardly any non-white characters that I can remember, I think Chikane was the only one and they put him safely in a helicopter so you'd hardly interact with him outside of your comms.
They learned their lesson to steer well away from that controversy. They had a bunch of eastern Europeans and a few Afghans/Arabs as those are the 'ok' bad guys anyway.
The same with the jews. you'd hardly see any outspoken jews in video games or TV shows because it's quite a delicate subject in a lot of countries. Especially when it comes to WW2. So they take the easy way out and just skip that entirely.

And that's the truth. portray your black character in a negative manner(or simply fuck up the portrayal of your character) and the internet will eat you and your creation alive and the same thing goes for many other subjects.
Nazi's in your WW2 flick can't be too nice, communists fighting against Nazi's can't be too evil, American agents can't lose to Jihadi's etc. .

Some things are o.k. like stereotypical Italians mobsters, evil Nazi's, bad corporations/CEO's, Russian terrorists and Mexican drug dealers.
I mean, you'd never see a Bond flick in which Daniel Craig fights a black revolutionary force led by a charismatic but ultimately devious civil rights leader (say Idris Elba) even though it would be an interesting plot.
No one would touch the script with a 10 foot pole. However, the same script with Daniel Craig fighting the same revolutionary force in some no-name Eastern European or Asian country? No problem.

Even the wonder woman film for all the praise it got being bold was very 'safe'. You have a girl fighting Germans with the help of some washed up English characters and a US soldier. It's hardly controversial material.
Doing something like Django, now that takes balls but if you mess it up your career is over.

This is also why the big screen is filled with CG armies and weird aliens/demons these days. Because they're universally accepted as being bad guys with no distinct racial or national features.
If Wonder Woman fights the Russians, they get angry and ban the film, if she fights the Arabs they get angry and ban the film if they haven't already, if she fights Americans, does she fight Republicans or Democrats, either would get angry.
China? Well, they'll pull the plug on some funding.

If people want to see more diverse characters in movies and TV shows they have to accept that writers will sometimes fuck up writing the characters. Until people agree that there's no 'hidden' agenda on the part of the writer to attack their 'race' outside of their fiction this is not going to change.
Now this is not only true for films advocating diversity or painting a certain race in a negative light. Star Wars got dragged through the mud by the alt-right nutjobs for advocating interracial relationships or some shit like that and mocked by the pro-diversity groups for leaving out some characters on the poster for China.
No matter what you do someone, somewhere will be offended.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,690
Shows like Friends are way too over the top for me. But why is gaming excluded from the topic? It's even worst. Square, for example, creates entire universes where my people don't exist. And nearly every major podcast is completely and totally devoid of color. IGN has like 85 different podcasts and there isn't a black face on one of them.
 

Nintex

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
672
P

Wth is this seriously from the show?
Yup as well as her being fucked in the ass in a tent in the Middle of the desert. GOT went all over the place. The context of that was that she had freed a bunch of people from their slave masters and they worship the dragon queen.
Because she controls dragons people bow to her will even though she's hardly the smartest or best leader of the bunch.
The folks in that image figure out she kinda sucks being a queen and the riots start soon after.

She's kind of an outcast/minority herself too being the last known Targaryen of royal heritage. So even if she's white she's still some sort of foreign invader deemed not worthy of ruling the land by her enemies.
She basically goes from being the lowest in class (traded as a slave to a warlord in exchange for an army by her brother) to being the highest (Dragon Queen).

I would say GOT is a fairly decent portrayal of medieval European times. When kings would slaughter each other in Europe and the Ottomans and Sultans had well run trade routes and beautiful coastal cities.
 

TheMikado

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,300
The Friends thing is surprising to me. I guess where you grow up colors your views. It isn't odd to me to assume 4 white people who knew each other from high school in Long Island move to New York and remain friends and get 2 more white roommates. My high school was somewhat racially divided by the end of the senior year. Indo-Canadians hung out with themselves, white people with themselves, Chinese Canadians with themselves.

I am of the reverse mindset. It always weirds me out when they throw in the token minority as a way to show diversity. I guess it's better to do that. But sometimes when I watched the Walking Dead I was thinking, in deep Georgia are people really going to band together, be as welcoming to people of color, LGBT individuals in a zombie apocalypse like the show portrays. Friends to me is realer than a Community where you think a rich white guy, a dorky black guy, a weird Palestinian guy, a nerdy jewish girl, a mother figure black woman all become friends. That doesn't happen. 2017 tells us this. I live in what many consider one of the most multicultural hubs in the world. All I see is increasing ethnic segregation.

I also accept my worldview is characterized by already dominant white supremacy and white proliferation however. I can envision a day though when people will say that having single ethnicity families is weird on television.

The problem isn't the main cast. There's nothing wrong with it.
The problem with friends is the version of NYC they live in. It's idealized and sterilized. Watch and single episode and see how many people break the young white fit, social economic class standard. The NYC they live in doesn't actual exist.
Again nothing wrong with the main cast it's the cast and world they interact with as extras.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Again the problem with homogeny is when it's unnecessary and purposeful. The example of friends is that their NYC is 90% young white fit etc. basically the show doesn't reflect the time and place. In fact I used Gone with the Wind as an example. Where it wouldn't make sense to have a all white cast even with the leads being white. It reflects a specific time and place and uses it atmosphere properly and thus casts appropriately.
You've expressed your opinion that diversity is necessary only when it's dictated by period or setting, but there's certainly a fair amount of ambiguity even there. Gone With The Wind is a fairly cut and dry example given its period and setting (Atlanta, Civil War). But in theory every movie that takes place in New York (or any major urban center for that matter) should have a diverse cast but they obviously all don't. Do they all need that? Does it hinder your ability to enjoy a white-dominated movie like Drive or Goodfellas or Zombieland? If the city is fictional but the setting is modern (Dark Knight) how does that play out?

And of course there's some people that go beyond your stance, saying that even fantastic alternate universes ought to have black characters in the purely for the sake of representation and giving minority actors work. So I'd be interested in hearing whether or not they get bothered with Star Wars, 2001, Lord of the Rings, or if it's something that really only applies to the major time commitment that a TV show represents.

I'd also be interested in hearing how much this applies to other narrative artforms. Can videogames be too white? How about novels? How about comics/manga?
 

Nintex

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
672
The problem isn't the main cast. There's nothing wrong with it.
The problem with friends is the version of NYC they live in. It's idealized and sterilized. Watch and single episode and see how many people break the young white fit, social economic class standard. The NYC they live in doesn't actual exist.
Again nothing wrong with the main cast it's the cast and world they interact with as extras.
Isn't the entire show fixed on the characters though?

As far as I remember all these shows mostly take place in the same scenes (same bar, same bedroom, same living room, same apartment) mostly to save costs.
From what I watched of Friends (and it wasn't much) it was mostly about the characters themselves and it could've taken place almost anywhere in the world.
New York was a backdrop not really a subject. I don't think the goal of the show was to portray New York as realistic as possible.
 

TheMikado

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,300
You've expressed your opinion that diversity is necessary only when it's dictated by period or setting, but there's certainly a fair amount of ambiguity even there. Gone With The Wind is a fairly cut and dry example given its period and setting (Atlanta, Civil War). But in theory every movie that takes place in New York (or any major urban center for that matter) should have a diverse cast but they obviously all don't. Do they all need that? Does it hinder your ability to enjoy a white-dominated movie like Drive or Goodfellas or Zombieland? If the city is fictional but the setting is modern (Dark Knight) how does that play out?

And of course there's some people that go beyond your stance, saying that even fantastic alternate universes ought to have black characters in the purely for the sake of representation and giving minority actors work. So I'd be interested in hearing whether or not they get bothered with Star Wars, 2001, Lord of the Rings, or if it's something that really only applies to the major time commitment that a TV show represents.

I'd also be interested in hearing how much this applies to other narrative artforms. Can videogames be too white? How about novels? How about comics/manga?

Of course I can certainly enjoy a predominantly "white" cast show or film. I love Harry Potter even though all the main cast are white and it's set in England. I think they did a great job of multiculturalism even though I wouldn't have deemed it as necessary. Even you example of Drive has distinct ethnicity and of course as stated the context is important. As far as all media is concerned it comics then yes as it pertains to American comics it should represent its demographics. Similarly I would expect manga to do the same.

As for Friends specifically I encourage everyone to watch the very first episode. Take note of the extras and most importantly the scene in the first 5 mins where they are watching some Hispanic program and guessing at what they are saying while encouraging one to push the other down the stairs. It's a surreal experience in the context of this thread. It's on Netflix right now so I would encourage everyone to check it out.
 

TheMikado

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,300
Isn't the entire show fixed on the characters though?

As far as I remember all these shows mostly take place in the same scenes (same bar, same bedroom, same living room, same apartment) mostly to save costs.
From what I watched of Friends (and it wasn't much) it was mostly about the characters themselves and it could've taken place almost anywhere in the world.
New York was a backdrop not really a subject. I don't think the goal of the show was to portray New York as realistic as possible.

Watch the first episode or even the first 10 minutes in the context of this threat and you will understand.
 
Oct 27, 2017
951
No. Because I have no trouble keeping up with the latest Japanese, Chinese, Indian, and South American cinema. It's not 1990. I am comfortable knowing I don't have to solely watch American white content. If I get tired of white casts I can just subscribe to Crunchyroll for a month, get caught up on a show that is getting high praise, and then switch out again after the month is over. This harping about Friends is bizarre as hell though. The show has been dead for like 13 years. Are we going to complain about Rawhide next?

Japanese Dramas - http://www.crunchyroll.com/videos/drama
India - https://spuul.com/discover
Hispanic - https://www.pantaya.com
Chinese - https://v.qq.com

South Korea - Train to Busan - Zombies on a Train



India - Dangal - Female Amateur Wrestlers (Also don't make a wrong life decision and skip this.)

 
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Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Of course I can certainly enjoy a predominantly "white" cast show or film. I love Harry Potter even though all the main cast are white and it's set in England. I think they did a great job of multiculturalism even though I wouldn't have deemed it as necessary. Even you example of Drive has distinct ethnicity and of course as stated the context is important. As far as all media is concerned it comics then yes as it pertains to American comics it should represent its demographics. Similarly I would expect manga to do the same.

As for Friends specifically I encourage everyone to watch the very first episode. Take note of the extras and most importantly the scene in the first 5 mins where they are watching some Hispanic program and guessing at what they are saying while encouraging one to push the other down the stairs. It's a surreal experience in the context of this thread. It's on Netflix right now so I would encourage everyone to check it out.

It seems like you really only seem to have an issue with Friends.......and even that show you wouldn't mind if the extras and one-off characters were a bit more diverse.
 

TheMikado

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,300
It seems like you really only seem to have an issue with Friends.......and even that show you wouldn't mind if the extras and one-off characters were a bit more diverse.

I've already stated other shows like "How I Met your Mother" I didn't feel the need to repeat something I already said. And yes I wouldn't mind at all if there was more diversity and not just racial.
 

Opto

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,546
The Friends thing is surprising to me. I guess where you grow up colors your views. It isn't odd to me to assume 4 white people who knew each other from high school in Long Island move to New York and remain friends and get 2 more white roommates. My high school was somewhat racially divided by the end of the senior year. Indo-Canadians hung out with themselves, white people with themselves, Chinese Canadians with themselves.

I am of the reverse mindset. It always weirds me out when they throw in the token minority as a way to show diversity. I guess it's better to do that. But sometimes when I watched the Walking Dead I was thinking, in deep Georgia are people really going to band together, be as welcoming to people of color, LGBT individuals in a zombie apocalypse like the show portrays. Friends to me is realer than a Community where you think a rich white guy, a dorky black guy, a weird Palestinian guy, a nerdy jewish girl, a mother figure black woman all become friends. That doesn't happen. 2017 tells us this. I live in what many consider one of the most multicultural hubs in the world. All I see is increasing ethnic segregation.

I also accept my worldview is characterized by already dominant white supremacy and white proliferation however. I can envision a day though when people will say that having single ethnicity families is weird on television.
Forget they're in college, a crossroads where this can happen pretty naturally and then state the year somehow proving all of those people couldn't get along (Pierce is probably the exception).
 

97_Mentality

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
301
The OP did a poor job creating this thread by not posting examples
I think you have to look at this on a case by case basis and if you there are enough shows that don't have enough minority representation when there should be then you have a case
 

LionPride

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,804
The Friends thing is surprising to me. I guess where you grow up colors your views. It isn't odd to me to assume 4 white people who knew each other from high school in Long Island move to New York and remain friends and get 2 more white roommates. My high school was somewhat racially divided by the end of the senior year. Indo-Canadians hung out with themselves, white people with themselves, Chinese Canadians with themselves.

I am of the reverse mindset. It always weirds me out when they throw in the token minority as a way to show diversity. I guess it's better to do that. But sometimes when I watched the Walking Dead I was thinking, in deep Georgia are people really going to band together, be as welcoming to people of color, LGBT individuals in a zombie apocalypse like the show portrays. Friends to me is realer than a Community where you think a rich white guy, a dorky black guy, a weird Palestinian guy, a nerdy jewish girl, a mother figure black woman all become friends. That doesn't happen. 2017 tells us this. I live in what many consider one of the most multicultural hubs in the world. All I see is increasing ethnic segregation.

I also accept my worldview is characterized by already dominant white supremacy and white proliferation however. I can envision a day though when people will say that having single ethnicity families is weird on television.
......what
 

Afro_Ninja

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
195
I stop watching Coen brothers movies because it's almost white cast only.

If they don't bother diversity on casting, I don't bother watching their white movies.
 

Atraveller

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,308
Those holiday RomComs with an ensemble cast with their headshots put side by side on the posters. Sometimes they have a black man and a Latino woman.
 

Biggersmaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,966
Minneapolis
I stop watching Coen brothers movies because it's almost white cast only.

If they don't bother diversity on casting, I don't bother watching their white movies.

Well there's a lot of diversity in Lady Killers...

df050e48014fb869bfa8ef6670a511abfa3d24f82261131ca1adb06b31e80c73.jpg


...never mind.
 

Epcott

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,279
US, East Coast
I stop watching Coen brothers movies because it's almost white cast only.

If they don't bother diversity on casting, I don't bother watching their white movies.

Brother, Where Art Thou had 2 black people... and a few acting as KKK members. I guess that's a start.

I watched a little of Cat in the Hat this morning and thought of this thread. Then I remembered it was a shite film and turned it off for obvious reasons.
 

Kyzer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,712
Yes

It is immediately noticeable too.

Makes me wonder where all the different color people went or about what kind of environment existed in production that they would only cast white people
 

Dali

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,184
edit: I read that wrong and thought I was in trouble with a mod (Doppie) .

Gwoooorl.....

As I told my husband, he better not show our kids any of his childhood shows or books, because I sure as hell knew they were problematic for me as a little girl.

Damn, if only I had Moana when I was younger.
What are some of childhood shows you are referring to and are you and your husband different ethnicities?
 
Oct 29, 2017
282
upon second thought...

Neighbours and Home and Away.
Each representing an ideal Australiana, with Neighbours representing the suburbia and Home and Away representing the quintessential beach side town.
But both are jst full of wypipo whilst the reality of Australian demographic landscape is much more diverse then what is represented in these mainstays of Australian prime time soaps. Most people dont live in beach side towns and suburbs arent jst full of white people bar a few.
 

Dancey Dave

Member
Nov 4, 2017
113
I don't really have much to add since I've already expressed my opinion here but this "friends" hate has got me rilled up. Joey Tribiani is precious.

PS: love the variation in opinions.
 

litebrite

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,832
Except in places media takes place in unless they go out their way to make it otherwise. And even then it's not completely believable because good old fashion servitude.

Sure, I think it also just stems from our history and the fact there's always been all White media and younger generations perpetuating it in their media regardless of the changing demographics.
 

Jeronimo

Member
Nov 16, 2017
2,379
Yes, but being aware of this isn't a recent development for me.

I'm going to guess that more than a few posters have mentioned they don't even notice or care about this. If you can't see the irony of admitting that as a white person, and what a privilege it is to be the default by default, you must be blind.
 

Dicer

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,192
The thing is in the flip side that PoC shows do the same thing... And it's fine by me. If a show is natural and funny idgaf what color anyone is, it's when they toss in a token character or try to force something is when it loses something.

TV is not indicative of real life, and never will be
 

GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,649
Oh, most TV shows in the US are very white. The most popular shows that are usually trending are full of white actors. But I think it's improving to some degree. The 90s sitcoms were really offensive IMO. You have a set of people living in very diverse cities that have over 90% white cast. I think Friends was like 99% white. It's definitely something I like to joke around with my POC friends(as I am POC as well). There are many thing we people of color tend to notice that white people don't.
 

roflwaffles

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,138
I'm Asian and I never found the whiteness in Friends to be offensive - I just treat it as a product of its time.
 

The Driver

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,589
Tbh I just started watching Curb Your Enthusiasm, and while it's funny and probably authentic to the life Larry David lives, it is super effing white.

It also kinda sucks that every minority introduced so far has a really noticeable accent. Hoping things get better as the series progresses.
 

jeelybeans

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,948
If it's fantasy like game of thrones I'm okay with it.

If it's a regional piece, like say, taking place in kentucky or something I'm okay with it.

If it's one of those generic shows (big bang, friends, etc) that seemingly take place in a major city like NYC or Chicago or London or something and its all white people I'm simply not interested. Typically the writing and stories wouldn't be something I'd relate with if its about white people that live in a minorityless world.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,534
I stop watching Coen brothers movies because it's almost white cast only.

If they don't bother diversity on casting, I don't bother watching their white movies.

Same here. I refused to watch Caesar after their comparison of black people to aliens. Fuck outta here. Also funny how the Fargo TV series manages to have plenty of diversity in the same setting. Curious.
 

Ultima_5

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,687
Tbh I just started watching Curb Your Enthusiasm, and while it's funny and probably authentic to the life Larry David lives, it is super effing white.

It also kinda sucks that every minority introduced so far has a really noticeable accent. Hoping things get better as the series progresses.
oh... they add quite a few POC in a later season (including one of the best additions to the show)
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
Tbh I just started watching Curb Your Enthusiasm, and while it's funny and probably authentic to the life Larry David lives, it is super effing white.

It also kinda sucks that every minority introduced so far has a really noticeable accent. Hoping things get better as the series progresses.
Season 6 will fix that for you LOL. Seriously, Season 6 will really fix that for you


 
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Felt

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,210
Never felt that way about any TV. At least, it's never come up in my head when I've watched something. I guess I just don't notice skin color on TV, kind of out of it. Watching Luke Cage it never even comes to my mind lol
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,611
To be fair to GoT, that kind of has at least more background reason for why it's white. It's not like a modern day sitcom. Same for why the witcher 3 has a reason.
 

LionPride

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,804
I like Thrones but uh....show's pretty caucasian

With or without context, this shit is...suspect

18qpujkoymrksjpg.jpg