Having tried Google's Project Stream I think latency issues are completely overblown

[Powerofthecloud]

I'm very impressed by it, it's more playable than it would have been on my 3 year old pc. Assassin's Creed is a pretty loose game so the latency doesn't matter, this won't work for a tight platformer but it works great for an open world action rpg

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And that is the market. Lightweight or older machines. Here everyone has at least one console/pc rig, so by comparison it doesn't make sense for everyday gaming right now for most here. But for the majority of the public, their most powerful device is a phone, or a tablet, or normal laptop. Thats a big market when no extra hardware is needed.

 

[pswii60]

As I'm in the UK, I haven't had the chance to try Stream. But I did finally get my Geforce Now beta invite today and got a chance to try it out.

And straight away, I hated it. Just moving the mouse pointer felt awful, it feels so 'heavy' due to the lag. And that's playing on my PC monitor. Then there's the macroblocking on fast moving images, likely due to the speed that the video has to be compressed. The image quality is shit too, like someone has smeared Vaseline all over the screen. The only good thing I can say about the experience is that it's still a hell of a lot better than PS Now.

Will certainly be intrigued to try Stream whenever it arrives in the UK for comparisons sake.

 

[Gankzymcfly]

I only cap out at like 10 and I was in fact blocked from playing. However, I kept trying by moving my laptop around and either they eventually let everyone through or I just got lucky.

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This is my main concern, i have faith the technology itself is sound but ISP's (especially in Canada where i live) need to offer higher and more consistent speeds before this will ever take off on a large scale though.

 

[SmarmySmurf]

I never had an issue with lag or latency on OnLive or Gaikai or PSNow either. I think its always going to come down to personal tolerances and ISP.

"I need the game to run locally" will end up like "I need the game on a dvd!".

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A thing still said by consumers who care about owning stuff they pay for? Cause plenty of people still want physical games, that isn't something of the past. Limited Run and Super Rare Games exist for a reason.

 

[Arulan]

The technical issues will be solved, and the mainstream will always trade convenience for good enough. This is also the target audience of consoles.

The problem for me isn't (primarily) latency, image quality, or internet speeds, it's giving platform-holders the power to control every aspect of our gaming experiences, and naturally allow them to abuse that. They already do this on consoles and other closed-platforms. The future of the medium doesn't belong to the whims of the publishers and platform-holders.

 

[Powerofthecloud]

Latency was never an issue for people that live close to the servers. Image Quality and bandwith are ever present problems, and many people live far away from servers. IMO, streaming will never be able to fix those things, but it can also easily serve a lot of people well.

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That is true. If you live in the middle of Montana you probably are going to have a bit more issues. I had no problems, but I am about 100 miles from probably the biggest server hub in the world so on fiber so those issues were undetectable even streaming wireless 40 ft away from my router.

As I'm in the UK, I haven't had the chance to try Stream. But I did finally get my Geforce Now beta invite today and got a chance to try it out.

And straight away, I hated it. Just moving the mouse pointer felt awful, it feels so 'heavy' due to the lag. And that's playing on my PC monitor. Then there's the macroblocking on fast moving images, likely due to the speed that the video has to be compressed. The image quality is shit too, like someone has smeared Vaseline all over the screen. The only good thing I can say about the experience is that it's still a hell of a lot better than PS Now.

Will certainly be intrigued to try Stream whenever it arrives in the UK for comparisons sake.

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This is a fair point kb@m could be way more noticeable.

 

[BlueManifest]

I've said this before in other streaming threads but I'm saying it again because I like saying it

I have GeForce now playing all my PC games at ultra and I don't plan to ever buy a new PC ever again

 

[DieH@rd]

That is true. If you live in the middle of Montana you probably are going to have a bit more issues. I had no problems, but I am about 100 miles from probably the biggest server hub in the world so on fiber so those issues were undetectable even streaming wireless 40 ft away from my router.

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I and all people in my country live in a part of Europe that will probably N E V E R get a good cloud game coverage. A lot of the world's population is in the same position, and because of that, local game rendering will always remain relevant. IMO, people who promote "end of consoles", even after gen9, are utterly wrong.

 

[Ricker]

So basically if you can shareplay on PSN and pass that little test connection meter and are in the yellow,you are good I guess...

 

[Powerofthecloud]

I and all people in my country live in a part of Europe that will probably N E V E R get a good cloud game coverage. A lot of the world's population is in the same position, and because of that, local game rendering will always remain relevant. IMO, people who promote "end of consoles", even after gen9, are utterly wrong.

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I dont see consoles going anywhere. This fits well for certain scenarios.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

The problem for me isn't (primarily) latency, image quality, or internet speeds, it's giving platform-holders the power to control every aspect of our gaming experiences, and naturally allow them to abuse that. They already do this on consoles and other closed-platforms. The future of the medium doesn't belong to the whims of the publishers and platform-holders.

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But how is this actually different from consoles or cell phones? What matters is that there's an open alternative (PC, + emulators where applicable). That option isn't going anywhere.

 

[Kyuur]

Latency is still a problem in games actually designed for network input for many people. Games that have no way to smooth the experience in cases of high latency will absolutely have problems.

 

[Inugami]

Latency really depends on where you're at... Even with OnLive I got great latency and played through Borderlands 1 start to finish on the service without issue (minor connection hiccups aside).

I just got my Project Stream invite, so I'm about to give it a test in the next few hours, but I expect even better results. Not just because technology is better but because Google's servers are everywhere and high end specifically for low latency.

 

[Braaier]

I just tried it and it runs fantastic on my pc. I'm ready for the streaming future!!!!!!!

 

[JusDoIt]

It's fine. I have more than a few hiccups and the resolution drops a lot, but it's playable. It's pretty much what my OnLive experience was. Decent for games I'm kinda interested in, but would not be my primary choice.

 

[low-G]

I do think a lot of more casual gamers will find rudimentary (not any new interfaces or features) gaming over streaming just fine. My secondary question is how the business model works out.

Will they want to charge $60 for a game + a subscription rate? What about gamers that share accounts and play nearly 24/7? How can they subsidize probably a thousand dollars of hardware with a monthly rate?

It's a very wasteful use of resources, so I'm not sure how the economics will work out in the long term, either.

 

[jwhit28]

I do think a lot of more casual gamers will find rudimentary (not any new interfaces or features) gaming over streaming just fine. My secondary question is how the business model works out.

Will they want to charge $60 for a game + a subscription rate? What about gamers that share accounts and play nearly 24/7? How can they subsidize probably a thousand dollars of hardware with a monthly rate?

It's a very wasteful use of resources, so I'm not sure how the economics will work out in the long term, either.

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It will be interesting. Google and Microsoft will be going head to head and I think both will try to avoid Geforce Now pricing.

 

[ShutterMunster]

It felt fine to me, I'll get back to it later. My internet connection isn't the best—100/15
doesn't stretch that far with many active devices in the home—but it played fine. A few hitches here and there and quick downgrades in streaming IQ (res) before cleaning itself back up. That is solely due to network consistency in my end though.

 

[BlueManifest]

It will be interesting. Google and Microsoft will be going head to head and I think both will try to avoid Geforce Now pricing.

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GeForce now doesn't have an officially announced pricing yet and it's currently free

 

[jwhit28]

GeForce now doesn't have an officially announced pricing yet and it's currently free

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Oh, I remember reports of it being pay by the hour. Maybe that was just a Shield thing.

 

[ckareset]

I do think a lot of more casual gamers will find rudimentary (not any new interfaces or features) gaming over streaming just fine. My secondary question is how the business model works out.

Will they want to charge $60 for a game + a subscription rate? What about gamers that share accounts and play nearly 24/7? How can they subsidize probably a thousand dollars of hardware with a monthly rate?

It's a very wasteful use of resources, so I'm not sure how the economics will work out in the long term, either.

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Give me Netflix or give me death

wont happen lol

 

[Okabe]

So I have just started playing Assassin's Creed Odyssey and it's confirmed my thoughts that issues about latency and control response are overblown. The controls feel fine and responsive.

And some background... my internet is garbage. I have AT&T. In fact, I dont actually think I meet the requirements to play as I constantly have the internet warning. You need 15mps streaming data to play and I only cap out at like 10 and I was in fact blocked from playing. However, I kept trying by moving my laptop around and either they eventually let everyone through or I just got lucky. I dont generally meet the minimum requirements though.

That being said, I do of course have lag/skipping but none of it is in my controller (dual shock 4).

I also have PlayStation Now and have similar thoughts. Garbage internet is definitely a problem, latency not so much. Of course, I have not tried any online first-person shooters or fighting games, so maybe there it really matters but I can safely say that I have no problem playing games like Assassins Creed or other games like Sonic, Red Dead, Bloodborne

I think anyone who has reservations about streaming should try it out and see for themselves. It really works better than I expected

With companies like Google, Microsoft, and Sony getting into streaming we can put some pressure on ISP to give us better internet and stop data caps. We shall see.


As for my thoughts on the game: the animations have some jank to them but it works just fine. I'm still early but everything seems well done. I chose Kassandra lol

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Might be a dumb question but does FPS fluctuate on internet connection strength or is it locked at 30 regardless?

 

[ckareset]

Might be a dumb question but does FPS fluctuate on internet connection strength or is it locked at 30 regardless?

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Im not sure what you are asking but both? It's not gonna be smooth if you have a bad internet, but I'm pretty sure the game can have it's own separate lag on whatever its being streamed from.

 

[Dr Doom]

how big is the beta user sample and peak hour numbers?

I'll wait until there's 1.5 million users and let see how the performance goes

 

[Badcoo]

it's been running real well for me but it's no where near the graphical fidelity you'd get on even base ps4. I do think this is a viable option for those looking to get into it.

It'll improve as time goes on.

 

[Deleted member 896]

I think it's clear that streaming is a viable option. I think the reservations some have are mainly with picture quality coupled with the fact that some are particularly concerned with things like locked frame rates and the lowest input lag possible. Like I get latency comes with the territory for online multiplayer in a competitive fighting game, but offline? I can't imagine that a streaming copy of Soulcalibur VI (just as an example since it comes out this week) is going to live up to the expectations I have as someone that owns a PS4 Pro, an Xbox One X, and a gaming PC with a 1080 Ti GPU. But that's on me.

But lowering my standard a bit I remember trying out Deus Ex HR many years ago via the OnLive service (does that still exist) and it was certainly playable. I just honestly don't want to have to rely on both the servers and my own network to be firing on all cylinders to get acceptable performance.

 

[Stormy_One_Kenobi]

I have played on Google stream and PS4. Looks and runs exactly the same on each. Literally feels like it is local when streaming. Looks great on my old 1080p monitor too.

 

[Railgun]

It depends on the person, just like whether you care about framerate or IQ. Some people really care about input lag, to the point they get 240hz monitors, low latency input devices and disable vsync. Just because you don't notice doesn't mean it shouldn't matter to others. Though I'm not to that extreme, I can notice the 20ms difference between the two TV's in my house so I'll definitely be bothered by the latency in streaming. In a game like Assassins Creed it may be fine but try playing Rainbow Six Siege streamed and get back to me.

 

[roguesquirrel]

Odyssey on Project Stream feels like the real thing, if the visuals didnt occasionally get muddy I'd never know it was streaming.
That being said, when I tried GEForce Now earlier this year I had mixed results. A slower game like Ghost Recon Wildlands was noticeable but playable and acceptable, but attempting to speedrun a stage in Sonic Forces instantly revealed how big the input lag was.

 

[Cueil]

This! It's also why Microsoft and Amazon are in the best position to do it right. Google is a distant 3rd in cloud.

 

[Skux]

"Better than expected", "not as bad as people think", and stuff like that just serves to tell me that it isn't better than the real thing, just an alternative presented in a lower standard, so I'm always a bit wary.

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Yeah. "Not as bad" is still bad.

 

[ckareset]

Yeah. "Not as bad" is still bad.

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I clarified. It feels the same.

 

[Mesoian]

Might be a dumb question but does FPS fluctuate on internet connection strength or is it locked at 30 regardless?

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It is attempting to be locked at 30. Any frame dips I've noticed have been game related.

 

[Inugami]

There are definitely cases of improper frame pacing... not even sure if it's really frame drops.

Yeah. "Not as bad" is still bad.

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There's a very real possibility that this service isn't for you, and that's fine. I can definitely see the niche in this though, especially if it leads to a subscription service at a decent price. Assuming they can keep up with modern releases

But yeah overall I have positive impressions even though I'm running on 5ghz wifi (though I initially tried 2.4ghz and it was less than stellar).