He saved like what, 10 people by the time he skyped in?
Pretty awesome job, Luke.
Help me understand the gut-wrenching hate for The Last Jedi (spoilers inside)
- Thread starter AuthenticM
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He saved like what, 10 people by the time he skyped in?
Pretty awesome job, Luke.
Counterpoint, can you name of something a jedi has done that's more impressive?
Did you miss the end of the movie? The last scene with the kids?
What Luke did spread like wildfire across the galaxy. It was the spark to birth a new rebellion.
How can something that inspires billions across the galaxy to rebel against the First Order be "not any damage'"???
How can you say that? What he did had more impact than when he blew up the Death Star!
He saved the only people that seem to care about fighting the First Order and stopping them from becoming what the Empire once was. You're being incredibly reductive.
That's the problem that they are attempting to correct. People want their fanfic "my childhood" bullshit like they have some ownership over stories yet to be told. Put it on the screen in front of them, and they will ignore what doesn't work in their fixation. This has all been about giving it back to the kids, not grown ass people that can't think for themselves anymore.
You can dislike it all you want and it's only a bad movie in your opinion. It's a great one in mine and many many others. It's also critically acclaimed
It was effectively projection. They saw each other in their physical spaces.
If it was a completely different technique, then that's fine, but then what was the point of establishing how draining the technique could be via Ben's comment if not to setup Luke's death? Maybe I shouldn't be asking about the lack of payoff on established threads in TLJ, though...
I'm taking about invisibility I admitted I was wrong about clocking.
What else would I look it up on? Cba tho
What the actual fuck.
He sparked the new rebellion. What he did became legendary. It spread ALL across the galaxy. Inspiring people to rise up against the first order.
How is that saving 10 people? Luke impacted BILLIONS if not trillions of people.
The Crait standdown made him seem like a God to the wider galaxy.
That was the entire point of Luke saying the rebellion was born that day. The entire point of showing the kids on Canto Bight recreating the Christ standdown in awe.
A Jedi? Not really, I guess. Maybe Yoda catching the tree on fire from the afterlife? Definitely more impressive stuff done by dark side users, I would argue, though.
Ah that thanks.
Never played it but it's still legit to me dammit.
Tbh I'm disappointed Kylie didn't do anything badass forcewise this movie. Like the blaster bolt from tfa.
You do realize that literally seeing the ship invisible as the viewer has nothing to do with the fact that the plan actually worked, right? We see the ships escaping. And that they were not detected by the FO.
I think you know you're wrong, because you already admitted to it. Now you're weirdly clutching onto your last lazy argument of "well, they were visible to the viewer", as if that changes the fact that the film beat over your head how wrong Poe was, and that Holdo's plan actually succeeded.
Part of his development is being wrong in this very instance so that he can learn from this mistake and earn Leia's full trust at the end of the film.
These are basic plot points that the film desperately wants you to understand. And you're somehow refusing them.
Him communicating with Rey so directly to even feel rain was more amazing than the blaster bolt TFA move I think.
The Force ain't about kicking ass and blowing stuff up. That is what a lot the old scraped EU like Force Unleashed got wrong.
I think you don't understand their argument if you think respect equates to letting the character do cool shit.
Most of the criticism I've heard about Luke–some of which I share–is centered around a shift in Luke's character. Luke already resisted the temptation to strike in anger back in ROTJ. He overcame that and became at peace with his father. But this film turned back time to make Luke look like he was still the mopey, hot-headed kid in ANH and ESB, even though he's a grown ass man and master jedi who understands that balance must come from within. Having Luke get close–close enough to turn on his lightsaber and hover over his pupil–to using violence to solve his problem undid all the character development we saw. I think this is probably why Mark Hamill had such a problem with the way Rian wrote Luke in this film. So it's a no-brainer that anyone who as a kid saw this hero of theirs grow and conquer his flaws, conquer his dark side, now be regressed back to being a selfish prick, well it's natural that they'd have a problem with this. And it's just such a disservice to the character. And having him go out in a big martyr moment doesn't change that.
Because at that point, the whole galaxy had lost hope. What Luke did was made a complete mockery of the First Order, he showed the incompetency of its new Supreme Leader and removed the fearful mask to reveal a whiny, pathetic child. This utter mockery of the First Order is what sparks hope because they know that there enemy isn't some strong unstoppable force of evil.
First off, PTSD doesn't work that way. You don't get it and then suddenly ignore it/not have it. When you write a character and present them with having something THAT serious, to the point that they are literally willing to risk their very life to get away from it you don't just "drop it" and never ever bring it up again, that is a clear example of POOR writing. You can't simply drop something that huge on a character, have it be their actual ORIGIN story bringing them into the main story and then ignore it and never mention it or have it affect them for the rest of the movie.
Finn's knowledge of the first order was helpful yes, but it's nothing he couldn't have simply told them and then left the movie. His actual skillset doesn't really come into play in the movie aside from fighting Kylo with Rey where he gets obliterated.
It's almost like her force power level isn't crucial to her development as a character.
Pay attention to the film.
The force doesn't work like this:
She grew up alone fending for herself for more than a decade, and yes she did need Finn and Han. She just didn't need them solely to get rescued.
Rey's gotten herself captured in both films pursuing bad causes. And what advanced force powers does she use? She's used force pull, and a jedi mind trick, which skill tree are those in?
The force doesn't work that way? So can you explain to me then why they train? Why they talk about Anakin being too old to start training? Why does Yoda have to train Luke how to use the force to lift things, where Luke struggles at first to even lift a small rock yet Yoda can lift his entire X-Wing?
What about when Obi Wan uses the mind trick on a storm trooper and then explains how it can be used on the weak minded and then when Luke uses it against Jabba he fails?
We are shown that Kylo isn't weak, he can literally stop a blast from a laser rifle in its tracks. Yet Rey has no trouble reversing his attempt to get into her mind and gets into his, she has no problems pulling a lightsaber to her that Kylo was also trying to pull. This is while she has had 0 training and really no concept of the force and what it's about.
If the force requires no training to use then why on earth did they form a Jedi Order? Why are they focused on training their entire lifetime? Same with the Sith. The entire thing is built up like any martial arts, you don't walk into a kung fu academy and immediately take down a black belt without any training or any knowledge of how to do it, you'd get your ass kicked just like Luke did.
That's how the force was presented in both the OT and prequels. Becoming a Jedi master took time, effort, lots of training and practice, you didn't just start from not knowing about the force and then you were able to pull off master level skills like Yoda could do.
Fair enough, it still felt a bit lackluster to me though for all the buildup.
The idea of them both being controlled by people and taking the risk to throw off both the Empire/Republic and instead be truly free and deciding how they wanted to live their lives and what that could have led to was just far more interesting of a concept to me then taking it right back around to Empire Vs Republic and having kylo go right back to be the villain.
He could have you know, tried to fix things or help, Luke wouldn't have abandoned everyone and just wallowed in self pity why Leia and Han and others needed him.
Then I missed that, my fault. No need to be so condescending, what I remember is Yoda burning it with the lighting strike and saying she didn't need them, but I did have to take a bathroom break at one point so maybe that's when I missed it.
It just seemed far fetched, even for a movie with space magic, it's not like I'm the only one that thinks this, there were literally "whats?" and grains from the audience in my theater when it happened.
How do you know this? There's no way of saying it wouldn't have worked because you're just making an assumption, it could have worked if the writing wanted it to work. Rose didn't know if it would work or not, Finn thought it would work, it was a hail mary and it was all Finn could do, apart from this (to their knowledge) they were all about to be killed by the first order so by Rose saving Finn she was willing to let them all die in order to do that, which went directly against her character from what we were shown about her at the start of the movie.
Lets say for example Luke didn't show up and Rey wasn't there to help Leia and the others escape, what would have happened?
The cannon would have went off, the door would have been opened, the first order would have slaughtered everyone, and then Rose/Finn? They'd have probably been caught and executed as well. So your choice (to her knowledge at the time) is "Let the man I love sacrifice himself to have a chance of saving everyone, or save him while throwing my sisters sacrifice and everything else under the bus on the oft chance we can escape this huge army surrounding us." She went with option 1, not really fitting in with how her character was set up.
Each side has "won" multiple times now, each time they win there's no real lasting change.
Look at the difference in the prequels. We see how different things are before the Republic becomes the Empire. We see how Sidious grows his power within the Republic in order to twist it and turn it into the Empire, then we see the Clone Wars and what that leads to, the consequences and changes it brings about. The utter destruction of the Jedi Order it brings about and galactic wide changes that then give way to the rise of the Empire and sets up the story for the OT.
However after the OT, when the Rebels decimate the Empire, with the Emperor gone and Vader as well, what does this lead to? With TFA we get no real sense of change to this political landscape. The first order seem quite powerful from the start, Snoke came from out of nowhere, the Rebels seem like they are the underdogs even though they won the war against the Empire. The only real explanation we get from the opening crawl that says the first order rose from the ashes of the empire. They feel a lot like a reskinned empire in TFA, felt like the aspect and rise of the first order could have been better written and at least different from the empire in some ways or how they are going about things.
They aren't completely the same. I mean Kylo has became leader and Snoke is gone, Rey has the books as you mentioned. However in terms of the story itself they are largely in similar positions at the end with the start of the movie. On the run from the Empire who is chasing after them. Not nearly an interesting ending for that movie as it would have been if Kylo/Rey did something different.
Did people really not get the scene with the kids at the end was about showing how Luke's actions have inspired the entire galaxy. That his God like actions on Crait spread like wildfire?
Or do they think it's a Marvel like cliff hanger setting up a new hero? (PS...its not this. And if you thought that you missed the entire point of the film).
Or do they think it's a Marvel like cliff hanger setting up a new hero? (PS...its not this. And if you thought that you missed the entire point of the film).
It's not unusual for people to regress back and struggle with something they've previously overcome. The Luke we saw at the end of ROTJ was expected to remain in stasis for 30 years?
Dude managed to completely hide his intentions and successfully force manipulate a lightsaber remotely to murder his Snoke, who by that point was established to be a complete badass that could read the minds of powerful force users against their will while levitating them in the air in a state of paralysis.
My theory is super hero movies kind of ruined people's ability to think in the obvious ways you would imagine, so there are all sorts of cues put in that people misinterpret to mean something else because of Marvel film set-ups.
Disney may have inceptioned themselves.
Anyone making this claim needs to answer this question "have you ever made the same mistake more than once in your life?". The answer is almost certainly yes.
Luke isn't Superman. He is a flawed human just like you and me.
Only thing I hate is the casino scene and the way Finns character regressed :( I expected him to be used much better in this film
Only thing I'm hoping is Rey teaching Finn to use a lightsaber because it's looking like Kylo x The knights of Ren vs Rey in episode 9
Other than that, I liked the last Jedi, was super hyped and the hype was met, luke the god
Only thing I'm hoping is Rey teaching Finn to use a lightsaber because it's looking like Kylo x The knights of Ren vs Rey in episode 9
Other than that, I liked the last Jedi, was super hyped and the hype was met, luke the god
I really believe if you take the people who didn't get what that final scene was about you'd find nearly all of them fall into the misunderstanding of what Luke was doing on Crait. He wasn't there to fuck shit up. He was there to inspire a galaxy.
What Luke did was essentially pulling a Jesus. Him being the spark to birth a galaxy wide rebellion as opposed to a new religion.
I think a lot of people did think it was like a cliff hanger setting up a new hero (or group of heroes or force sensitive kids to be recruited) because they showed the kid using the force. That really muddied what was supposed to be significant about that scene. Luke was already a legend that saved the galaxy before his final act in TLJ, so we honestly don't know if they were just trying to show that there were more force-sensitive kids out there aspiring to be Jedi (highlighting the theme in the movie of how the light side rises to fight the dark to preserve balance), or if the message we were supposed to take away was that Luke's latest sacrifice had inspired a new generation to maybe take up arms.
Was that ever clarified outside of the movie?
A bit of both since Luke was already a legend. It just nowaser focused it with a political motivation for the galaxy currently. It was absolutely supposed to be the kids recreating the actions on Crait rather than Luke generically. I believe the visual dictionary clarifies this with the labels of the toys they used if I recall right.
Okay, this is the dumbest thing I've read in this thread. No offense.
If Luke had not blown up that Death Star, the rebels would've been annihilated and Palpatine would be ruling the galaxy with an iron grip even to Rey's present.
Palpatine made the mistake of dissolving the Senate right before the Death Star had been blown up. Luke's actions are what turns the rebellion into a fullblown civil war.
After everything Luke went through with his father, that trial by fire, you still think he'd go, "You know what? Fuck this kid, he's not redeemable, even though he happens to be my sister and best friend's kid. Time to murder a kid just like my father." I don't believe he would just double-back on the foundation of his belief system like that. If there was some incident that happened that shook him so deeply he decided all his personal experience was a lie and some people were just too evil to live, we were never shown it or told about it, and that's simply bad storytelling.
if you watch you can definitely see they have the toy version of the battering ram cannon, it's absolutely supposed to be Crait
How did all this information spread though, did I miss the part of the movie where this battle was live streamed to the galaxy? It's a cheap ruse that could have been accomplished with a holo projector, I don't see how it would turn into some kind of Jesus like event.
Ah, OK. That's good. I was honestly a bit confused coming away from my only viewing and got more excited about the prospect of more force users that Rey might go recruit in the next film.
I don't think he turned on his lightsaber intending to kill Ben. I think he turned it on out of instinct and fear. exactly like at the beginning of Episode I when Obi-wan and Qui-gon instinctively turn on their lightsabers the second they sense something is wrong, even though they don't know what
in other words, you fell for Kylo's telling of the story
Oh crap you're right, I remember now.
Personally I liked Luke's portrayal. Hell, I wish he'd stuck with it, he had the right idea. That said I don't understand why saying the Jedi should die has anything to do with saving a bunch of people including close friends.
They explain why he hasn't talked to the Ghosts prior. Luke cut himself off from the Force after the Kylo attack. Soon as he allowed himself use the Force again Yoda comes barging through.
The way the new trilogy shits on the original ending is nothing short of amazing, the Empire is stronger than ever with a new superweapon that destroyed countless planets of the New Republic, who happen to be negligent in dealing with the First Order, there are corrupt bussines funding the FO all over the Galaxy, no peace for Luke, he tried to kill his own nephew because he failed to see the threat coming, most of his students died, Han Solo was killed by his own son, Leia lost her son and husband, Vader's legacy lives pn through Kylo.
I LOVE how that scenes plays once you realize that context. Luke's like a kid who knows he messed up and he sees his parent pulling into the driveway home from work.
The rebellion was already civil war before Luke blew up the Death Star. Or am I misunderstanding you?
In the OT, aside from the first Death Star, Luke didn't really "save the galaxy" at the end. He brought Anakin back to the good side, which led to him destroying Palpatine, but the efforts on Endor and in the space battle would've destroyed the second one anyway with Palpatine on it.
In Force Awakens, most of the galaxy seems to know Luke as only a myth aside the "in the know" like those close to him. The Jedi he was training were wiped out.
In The Last Jedi, Luke uses the Force to a magnitude so hard that it not only kills him, but it gets the remaining Resistance away from the First Order to fight another day, and as we see before the cut to credits, what he does may have spread which may lead to the eventual downfall of the First Order, or at least people to train as Jedi, if Rey indeed becomes the new instructor.
Luke goes from a myth to a legend in this movie. His character ends doing something possibly much greater than he did in the OT. It's just that Rian revisited some of the darkness hinted at him in the OT before sending him off on a good note. Luke was never one of my favorite SW characters but this movie sure as fuck made him one.
If that somehow "ruins" the character then I don't the fuck know man
In Force Awakens, most of the galaxy seems to know Luke as only a myth aside the "in the know" like those close to him. The Jedi he was training were wiped out.
In The Last Jedi, Luke uses the Force to a magnitude so hard that it not only kills him, but it gets the remaining Resistance away from the First Order to fight another day, and as we see before the cut to credits, what he does may have spread which may lead to the eventual downfall of the First Order, or at least people to train as Jedi, if Rey indeed becomes the new instructor.
Luke goes from a myth to a legend in this movie. His character ends doing something possibly much greater than he did in the OT. It's just that Rian revisited some of the darkness hinted at him in the OT before sending him off on a good note. Luke was never one of my favorite SW characters but this movie sure as fuck made him one.
If that somehow "ruins" the character then I don't the fuck know man
Watch the movie again. Luke did more TL save the galaxy in TLJ than any of the OT movies.
His God like actions on Crait is the spark to light the new rebellion to inspire the entire galaxy to rebel against the FO.
Luke's action to light that spark is what will cause the FOs destruction. That's what the final scene is about.
I really love the mythology behind Luke's actions. The climax in TLJ is better than anything I could have imagined for him, as a character and a hero.
Nah, Luke went in there thinking he had to do something, I don't think he made it a habit to just stare at his pupils in the dark. He was definitely acting out of fear, but it was fear of Kylo's dark side. But he caught himself. Unfortunately Kylo woke up thinking Luke was trying to kill him and freaked the fuck out. My point was that Luke already going in there, drawing his lightsaber, that was already too far out of his desire for non-violence to feel right unless something happened to Luke before this that we never see or hear about.
It baffles me how people can see that and ESPECIALLY after the scene showing how his actions have inspired people across the galaxy and still think all Luke did was save 10 people.
Luke didn't save 10 people, he saved the entire galaxy with what he did on Crait.
Give them time. There's still just under two years before Episode IX, by then this will be the best Star Wars movie by far and JJ will just hack it again.