Honkai: Star Rail 2.0 |OT| Tick-Tock! Come Dream With Us!
- Thread starter SubvertedTrope
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Correct, but there's no way in hell its numbers/effect are final unless they're taking the piss. The leak suggests it's a significantly worse version of the 4* Erudition MoC cone they added in 2.0.
Was planning to get Robin, Topaz, and Jade... Thinking now I might get Robin, Firefly, and Jade instead. But as someone who does not want RM, and may not have the jades for her rerun even if I did, I wonder how viable a break team can be without her.
Whew, finally managed to get the last 200 jade from Forgotten Hall's Xianzhou memory section thanks to my new Bronya speeding things up, had been annoying me for a while not having that finished. The first harmony character I've built and my resources are nearly drained again, but worth it! Her skill is quite fun... now I'm imagining being able to use it on the whole party at once while listening to a beautiful melody.
Next Robin trailer when, I need more harmony in my life.
Next Robin trailer when, I need more harmony in my life.
Only Firefly for me.
Just do some pulls on Topaz/Robin like me unless you are close to pity and hope for the best.
Congrats! Yeah Bronya is amazing.
I'm honestly kind of surprised they're making a planar set specifically for 'one element only' weakness with the 'definitely-not-just-for-Firefly' forge planar set.
Obviously it COULD be used by other characters as well, but that seems more specific of an activation in terms of caring about what TYPE of enemy is on the field, rather than based on the unit's own stats.
To the point where you'd essentially be swapping out planars unless you're either constantly running SW, or Firefly with her own implant.
Which feels....weird - even Definitely-not-just-for-Acheron's Izumo planar set could 'ostensibly' be used by Ratio/Topaz, or Jingliu/Blade synergy, but this one is straight up 'no fire weakness (which isn't something you can 'control' in MoC or PF unless you have SW and/or Firefly)?
Farm/use a different set in the meantime, or you're SOL (save for the basic speed % increase), I guess.
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Also, agreed that the new herta LC seems REAL underwhelming, unless those numbers get bumped up.
Obviously it COULD be used by other characters as well, but that seems more specific of an activation in terms of caring about what TYPE of enemy is on the field, rather than based on the unit's own stats.
To the point where you'd essentially be swapping out planars unless you're either constantly running SW, or Firefly with her own implant.
Which feels....weird - even Definitely-not-just-for-Acheron's Izumo planar set could 'ostensibly' be used by Ratio/Topaz, or Jingliu/Blade synergy, but this one is straight up 'no fire weakness (which isn't something you can 'control' in MoC or PF unless you have SW and/or Firefly)?
Farm/use a different set in the meantime, or you're SOL (save for the basic speed % increase), I guess.
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Also, agreed that the new herta LC seems REAL underwhelming, unless those numbers get bumped up.
Firefly seems to eat boothills lunch but boothill does some crazy single target damage apparently and the physical weakness install does a lot for characters that don't see much play. Not to mention boothill can only improve over time more likely.
Jade's dmg multiplier is way too low. Her base ATK stats is like 15% lower than any other limited carry. And her own damage is that low make her signature lc and eidolon much less appealing.
Based on CN calculation, without PF buff, if you replace Himeko with E0S0 Jade paring with Herta, in fact the team would perform worse in this period PF enemy line-up.
Her damage alone is worse than Topaz/Himiko/Yanqing in MOC environment... Cannot imagine how she would perform in Hunt moc...
All her normal attackx2+Fuax1+addtional damage on allies+Ult in one round on 3 enemy would roughly equal to Firefly's one enhanced atack...
Unless you plan to pull her to support Blade, skip her.
Based on CN calculation, without PF buff, if you replace Himeko with E0S0 Jade paring with Herta, in fact the team would perform worse in this period PF enemy line-up.
Her damage alone is worse than Topaz/Himiko/Yanqing in MOC environment... Cannot imagine how she would perform in Hunt moc...
All her normal attackx2+Fuax1+addtional damage on allies+Ult in one round on 3 enemy would roughly equal to Firefly's one enhanced atack...
Unless you plan to pull her to support Blade, skip her.
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Firefly's 240 ult cost means her ult timing is hard but not impossible to manipulate, and I think that will be big for getting the most out of her. If she can gain energy while in her enhanced state, what you want to do is get 120 energy during her ult and then arrange for her next turn to come up right after her ult wears off so that she can skill and then immediately ult again. If she still generates 30 energy per skill in her ult you need 4 turns, although you could also kill something with some basics which seems likely. Firefly at >180 speed including her buff and Bronya acting at just <180 speed would be able to have Firefly take 3 (4 with a Bronya skill) turns during her ult and then have Bronya advance her right after so that she can skill again and recover 120 energy, which might let her immediately ult again for no downtime and a free advance. The thing you really want to avoid is having Firefly sit around waiting for non-enhanced turns to come up. This becomes much more SP-viable at E1 and you likely regenerate a lot more energy at E2. Without action advance, but perhaps with E2 for more energy, maybe the way to go is to run Firefly at 179 speed self-buffed so that her turn naturally comes up again right after her ult ends. Sparkle with Firefly as fast as possible might be a good compromise.
Firefly has this odd mix of doing regular damage that would benefit from crit and doing break damage that wouldn't. The 4-piece of the new relic set suggests that actually breaking enemies is where a lot of her damage comes from since it says it only reduces enemy def while dealing break damage. But at the same time her enhanced skill has a 600% attack ratio single-target and 1200% total, which is screaming for some crit since the ratio itself is better than Dan's EB3 (obviously he will always have much more crit). I feel like Firefly's ceiling with relic investment is going to be enormous since the difference between just managing to satisfy her breakpoints and doing that while getting to 70/140 crit is a doubling of her non-break damage.
Firefly has this odd mix of doing regular damage that would benefit from crit and doing break damage that wouldn't. The 4-piece of the new relic set suggests that actually breaking enemies is where a lot of her damage comes from since it says it only reduces enemy def while dealing break damage. But at the same time her enhanced skill has a 600% attack ratio single-target and 1200% total, which is screaming for some crit since the ratio itself is better than Dan's EB3 (obviously he will always have much more crit). I feel like Firefly's ceiling with relic investment is going to be enormous since the difference between just managing to satisfy her breakpoints and doing that while getting to 70/140 crit is a doubling of her non-break damage.
Will want to see gameplay breakdowns from the beta for sure. There's also the fact that we could see their kits get nerfed or buffed before we get around to their release next month.
I'm still on the fence for this round though the fact I am so much just feels like it's telling me not to, but I guess I'll see how things shake out. Right now I do really want to pull for Firefly so saving may be the way to go.
I'm still on the fence for this round though the fact I am so much just feels like it's telling me not to, but I guess I'll see how things shake out. Right now I do really want to pull for Firefly so saving may be the way to go.
I cannot imagine Jade doesn't get buffed if her stats are that bad - Hoyo can't rely ONLY on waifu/mommy factor.
Also, on a separate note, this is my 5th new Preservation trace run in a row, with only 1 total purple to show for it.....bleargh.
Maybe I really DO need to start running 3x instead of 6x and see if it changes anything.
Also, on a separate note, this is my 5th new Preservation trace run in a row, with only 1 total purple to show for it.....bleargh.
Maybe I really DO need to start running 3x instead of 6x and see if it changes anything.
I ran into the same exact problem at the end of NY new preservation trace runs. Incredibly stingy rewards for several runs.
Switched to abundance and Harmony and doing much better.
Same. Trailblazer being relevant is a positive, not a negative. And those 2 working well together in particular is also just really cool story-wise.
Pulling plans continue to be weirdly in limbo. The only 100% must have I have right now is Sam.
Jade is a potential strong contender.
I initially wanted to pick up Topaz but I'm not really feeling it anymore.
Robin would probably work well for who I have but also I'm noticing the game is subtly-or-not-so-subtly pushing me into "pull for team-building" instead of "pull for characters you want" and I don't really like that, so maybe I should skip out of principle. That said, based on her upcoming story relevancy and trailer she could still jump into the second category so who knows.
Either way, I need animation leaks, lol.
I just pull for who I want and if they turn out good that's nice. Now show me animations!
I know if I pulled Boothill I'd be thinking of making a Galaxy Ranger teams. Acheron still totally counts! Maybe I'll get him on a rerun since his animations are nice.
I haven't really looked into his kit but If you are guaranteed for it I guess it's nicer than all the other Hunt Option since it's the only LC of that path with Break Effect that he will enjoy having. I wish you get both Boothill and his LC early if you really go for it.
I know if I pulled Boothill I'd be thinking of making a Galaxy Ranger teams. Acheron still totally counts! Maybe I'll get him on a rerun since his animations are nice.
....this kind of stuff just sucks, god.
It's bad enough that I find the transparent manipulative pandering of immediate date with the player proxy actually kind of infuriating/unethical, now the character feels like she's actually damaging others around her. I don't have a problem with character wanters getting a good character they'll be happy with pulling but when it feels like the game just expects us to pull her at this point and Boothill (plus maybe Jade?) are deliberately being hamstrung for ebbs and flows control, actually hurts my relationship/anyone looking forward to those other characters with the game period.
And it'd be one thing if Firefly was just a better unit sort of in the abstract, but in a separate niche entirely. To look so much better than Boothill in a very similar if not the same niche while offering greater aoe damage AND to be coming literally the banner immediately after him is just.... what the hell?
I hope this is an overreaction and I either don't understand her kit/boothills correctly and/or its beta so we'll see changes. (although given Fireflys anointed one status within the community and seemingly hoyo, I feel like they would have started lower then buffed rather than try and nerf during the publicly visible tuning phase?) Bummer if not.
Otherwise, I think I just change my pull plan entirely. No boothill pulls, no pulling firefly- like her or not, insane or not, I really don't want to put any "votes of approval"/pulls towards a blatant level of power creep right on the heels of the unit being crept- scratching Ruan Mei off the rerun list. Instead, I'll go for Topaz after all after Robin. And maybe Jade if she's looking solid by release?
This is what I always try to preach. And tbh when a character I like isn't the strongest or rumored to flop, it just fires me up more to support them and prove they can slay. One must stand by their king/queen at their worst to deserve them at their best!
Jade's kit is weird. She seems to be pigeonholed into PF because they're doing something they usually avoid doing -- she has conditional buffs that don't have an easy-to-reach cap. They do conditional buffs all the time as a way to say "hey build this stat" or "hey put them in this team". Ratio wants to attack targets with 3-5 debuffs. Black Swan wants 140% EHR or whatever. While you have to make sacrifices to reach these goals, you definitely can and you can generally regard the buffs as always-on parts of their kit. The closest they've come to uncapped benefits is something like Acheron's debuff synergy or Topaz's FUA synergy, but these are still just team-building constraints that still work everywhere.
Meanwhile Jade wants to see 5 enemies since her FUA rate is directly proportional to the number of enemies. And then she scales up to a bonus ~130% crit damage by launching up to 10 FUAs, so she also wants very long fights. If you bring her to MoC you might not even hit the cap by the end of the battle.
The big questions for me about him are whether his scaling mechanic is going to make him not trolling in PF so that maybe he can scale up to one-shotting elites, and then whether Apocalyptic Shadow is going to give him and Seele small adds to work their Talents on (which I bet it will).
To be clear, Boothill is absolutely being sent to die gacha-wise. He's not very story-relevant and he's right before Firefly, and we just got an extremely appealing male character. I expect he'll be at least a bit pigeonholed into single-target content but I'm pretty sure he'll at least have a place there.
Meanwhile Jade wants to see 5 enemies since her FUA rate is directly proportional to the number of enemies. And then she scales up to a bonus ~130% crit damage by launching up to 10 FUAs, so she also wants very long fights. If you bring her to MoC you might not even hit the cap by the end of the battle.
I would wait for at least another few weeks before panicking about power levels, since numbers are the most subject to change. I'd be surprised if Boothill was not significantly better than Firefly vs a single big target after he gets a chance to scale up. My impression, without having run numbers, is that Boothill is going to do significantly more break damage. If I'm reading his Talent right, when he's fully stacked (broken or killed 3 things) he does an extra 170% of the regular physical break damage to a weakness broken target, and that's an independent multiplier.
The big questions for me about him are whether his scaling mechanic is going to make him not trolling in PF so that maybe he can scale up to one-shotting elites, and then whether Apocalyptic Shadow is going to give him and Seele small adds to work their Talents on (which I bet it will).
To be clear, Boothill is absolutely being sent to die gacha-wise. He's not very story-relevant and he's right before Firefly, and we just got an extremely appealing male character. I expect he'll be at least a bit pigeonholed into single-target content but I'm pretty sure he'll at least have a place there.
Topaz is better because it buff all FUAs
E1S1 is THE piece for the FUA team
Erudition gonna Erudition
FIFY.
E1S1 Robin bring more damage than Topaz/Aventurine/Dr Ratio/Jade' E1 E2 combined.
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Even you gives Jade free 130% CD full stack at the start, her damage multiplier are still too low. She has the 2nd lowest base atk stat as limited carry. Her atk stat is even lower than Luocha... Her buffed ally damage does not scale with her own CR/CD at all, only her own atk.
Midyuan base atk is 5% higher than her...
Midgenti/Himeko base atk is 10% higher than her...
She has similar atk stats as a 4* Qingque/Serval imao. 140 energy cost and she could only use skill once then only perform normal attack means that she could only ult like every 3 turn….
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Yeah I'm keeping it in perspective. Just prepared to make the audible now as I don't know how much stuff will change. The ramp up aspect of his kit is just another potential wrinkle in the kinds of requirements he'll have to really perform in content, although maybe in places where he gets to have trickshot stacks for like 80% of the fight it'll work out in his favor. Just don't know how singular bosses will fare for him.
It's not the worst to go all in on team fua and team acheron. I have a new account and they're the places I have the most investment anyways. I'll just be adapting them to suit the content instead of bringing out a separate dedicated break team for apocalyptic shadow. Really going to need the robin into topaz (and topaz sig?) pulls to go extremely well though with around 250 warps going into this. I'll get a breather once I'm past that though at least.
Wait what? That seems insane? Is that actually true?
View: https://x.com/cancanbingo/status/1787133390376079530
Yea and people are also clearing some of the harder stuff with 4* only. If I have pulls left after Firefly/Her LC and Argenti is there I may throw pulls at him.This is what I always try to preach. And tbh when a character I like isn't the strongest or rumored to flop, it just fires me up more to support them and prove they can slay. One must stand by their king/queen at their worst to deserve them at their best!
Indeed Although I have fallen out of love from her LC.
Just pull Robin E6 and you won't even need a DPS
My understanding is that Robin's energy reqs aren't that bad in an actual FUA team and in a non FUA, the longer ramp up of her sig makes the difference between it and like bronyas- which is also building energy during her ult- less of a big deal.
I guess the damage aspect of the sig is hard to match though.
I guess the damage aspect of the sig is hard to match though.
Exactly yeah, with normal team you kinda have to manage her energy without but she is not that energy hungry like it seemed on paper.
I would say Robin's E6 are quite "useless" compared to other limited harmony E6. Her e6 only buff her own damage and has a trigger cap, which is easier to be powercrept by new carry(like SilverWolf/Aventurine's E6). While Ruan Mei and Sparkle's e6 could buff up the whole team.
I thought Robin didn't need her S1, and Bronya's LC is good enough. Unless something changed.
Nothing changed. I just assumed most people don't have Bronya's LC.
honestly wish i'd started my F2P account sooner. Legit thinking about just saving for an e0 acheron when she reruns if nothing else for her overworld technique. it's such a huge quality of life increase.
I'm sort of wondering if Boothill shows up in 2.2's story at all. Offhand I'm not sure how he would since he seems far more of an outside actor and out of the 2.3 banner characters seems the least likely to show up in person. If he is present then him getting a highlight like Aventurine would be cool though I doubt it would be nearly as involved as his was.
Reading up on Firefly and she definitely seems great (as expected), but she also appears to be another character that really wants her E2. Granted her E0 works as well, but she becomes a completely different character at E2, with the fast breaks and action advance.
Coming off of Acheron, I'm not sure I'll be able to make it. If I save everything between now and her release and, with how much I have right now, I could probably make 300 pulls (so enough to have her E1 guaranteed). I'll need to win one of those 50/50 and a little something extra for her E2, and that leaves her LC as well. I still have a couple of 2x top-up so I could finish those off, but it would leave me nothing in the tank for Acheron's dedicated support, who will likely arrive in the patch following Firefly.
TL;DR - Eternal hell.
At least we'll get 2.4 CBT talk before Firefly arrives so I can make a more informed decision then.
Coming off of Acheron, I'm not sure I'll be able to make it. If I save everything between now and her release and, with how much I have right now, I could probably make 300 pulls (so enough to have her E1 guaranteed). I'll need to win one of those 50/50 and a little something extra for her E2, and that leaves her LC as well. I still have a couple of 2x top-up so I could finish those off, but it would leave me nothing in the tank for Acheron's dedicated support, who will likely arrive in the patch following Firefly.
TL;DR - Eternal hell.
At least we'll get 2.4 CBT talk before Firefly arrives so I can make a more informed decision then.
So what's better for Topaz that's already using S5 swordplay, her LC or E1? On paper it seems like the eidolon is better because it's purely a CDMG increase for all your teams follow up attacks with no loss, where as her LC gives the team a weaker buff overall and only slightly increases her personal damage over the LC she'll be losing.
Am I thinking correctly?
Am I thinking correctly?
He said he was showing up to kill Acheron so maybe they'll fight off-screen and we'll never hear anything about him again.
I doubt he's going to be central to the plot given they'll want to spend time on Robin and Sunday, and maybe do a Firefly demo like Dan's early showing in 1.2 (since if 2.3's epilogue is like 1.3's, there won't be much there). He spoke with Black Swan already, so maybe he gets some screen time alongside her and Acheron where they can clear up this silly misunderstanding and hug it out.
Edit: In the preview for the Charmony festival venue area that they posted last night, there's a "Gunfire Trial" and a general combat arena. So they have a pretty easy option of having him enter as a contestant and you meet him there.
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