jungius

Member
Sep 5, 2021
2,726
An exclusive Guardian survey of hundreds of the world's leading climate experts has found that:
  • 77% of respondents believe global temperatures will reach at least 2.5C above preindustrial levels, a devastating degree of heating;
  • almost half – 42% – think it will be more than 3C;
  • only 6% think the 1.5C limit will be achieved.
The IPCC experts are, in short, the most informed people on the planet on climate. What they think matters. So the Guardian contacted every available lead author or review editor of all IPCC reports since 2018. Almost half replied – 380 out of 843, a very high response rate.

The task climate researchers have dedicated themselves to is to paint a picture of the possible worlds ahead. From experts in the atmosphere and oceans, energy and agriculture, economics and politics, the mood of almost all those the Guardian heard from was grim. And the future many painted was harrowing: famines, mass migration, conflict. "I find it infuriating, distressing, overwhelming," said one expert, who chose not to be named. "I'm relieved that I do not have children, knowing what the future holds," said another.

"Sometimes it is almost impossible not to feel hopeless and broken," says the climate scientist Ruth Cerezo-Mota. "After all the flooding, fires, and droughts of the last three years worldwide, all related to climate change, and after the fury of Hurricane Otis in Mexico, my country, I really thought governments were ready to listen to the science, to act in the people's best interest."

Instead, Cerezo-Mota expects the world to heat by a catastrophic 3C this century, soaring past the internationally agreed 1.5C target and delivering enormous suffering to billions of people. This is her optimistic view, she says.

Camille Parmesan, at the CNRS ecology centre in France, was on the point of giving up 15 years ago. "I had devoted my research life to [climate science] and it had not made a damn bit of difference," she said. "I started feeling [like], well, I love singing, maybe I'll become a nightclub singer."

She was inspired to continue by the dedication she saw in the young activists at the turbulent UN climate summit in Copenhagen 2009. "All these young people were so charged up, so impassioned. So I said I'll keep doing this, not for the politicians, but for you.

Climate change is our "unescapable reality", said Joeri Rogelj, at Imperial College London. "Running away from it is impossible and will only increase the challenges of dealing with the consequences and implementing solutions."

Henri Waisman, at the IDDRI policy research institute in France, said: "I regularly face moments of despair and guilt of not managing to make things change more rapidly, and these feelings have become even stronger since I became a father. But, in these moments, two things help me: remembering how much progress has happened since I started to work on the topic in 2005 and that every tenth of a degree matters a lot – this means it is still useful to continue the fight."

and more on the article

www.theguardian.com

‘Hopeless and broken’: why the world’s top climate scientists are in despair

Exclusive: Survey of hundreds of experts reveals harrowing picture of future, but they warn climate fight must not be abandoned
 

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,117
Cross-posting from the other thread:

Very interesting article, thank you for sharing. Some additional takeaways:

The median expectation in their survey is 2.7C, which is in-line with the projection of the Climate Action Tracker. This is a tremendous decrease from a couple of decades ago, when the projected warming was around 4C.

1.5C is dead, but 2.0-2.5 is still very much on the table, and every tenth of a degree makes a huge difference. Even just fully implementing announced policies would keep us under 2.5C. This is why climate action NOW is still critically important. Human beings don't go extinct in any of these scenarios, so we have to improve things as much as we can.

I'm not a single issue voter on anything, but the issue I'm closest to being a single issue voter for is climate policy.

EU citizens please vote for climate conscious parties in your upcoming elections.
 

RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,297
While the projections mentioned here are scary there is some good news that came out recently: last year marks the peak of greenhouse gas emissions from the power industry as renewable energy accounted for over 30% of all energy generated last year with solar energy specifically more than tripling from the prior year. The shift towards renewable and sustainable energy shows no sign of slowing this year either. For more details see this section of the climate news recap I posted yesterday:

Semafor has coverage of Ember's recent climate study report with 5 key takeaways the most important of which is that 2023 will almost certainly go down as the peak of emissions for the power industry. This is accompanied by news that the rapid growth in solar and wind energy around the world has led to renewables accounting for more than 30% of all energy generated last year. Solar nearly tripled in total power generated last year alone far surpassing even the most optimistic forecasts with no signs of slowing this year. Even more encouraging last year saw a major decline in demand for fossil fuel energy for the first time in the study's history. In short renewables are becoming more affordable and more attractive and fossil fuel is starting to see notable declines in demand. It's a seachange moment for energy across the world.

For more mainstream coverage of this report you can see CNN's recent coverage.

There's a lot more work to do but it's important to acknowledge that things are headed in the right direction and, in some areas, faster than any had hoped. Don't forget to celebrate the progress that's been made. Hope is a far better motivator than apathy.
 

9wilds

Member
Jan 1, 2022
3,773
Not my problem.

I'll be dead anyway.

Its natural.

I don't trust them.

Nothing I do matters anyway.

Someone else will fix it.

I'll do better. Tomorrow.

I'll do better. Soon.

I'll do better. In the future.

Not my problem.

Not my problem.
 

Daphne

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,727
When I was a child, I'd have terrible nightmares about learning of some crime or evil happening that will be disastrous, trying to tell people and no one believing me or listening.
It's probably a common fear. I didn't expect it to describe an entire profession so accurately.

In the late 1980s, governments were actually going to do something. There was consensus being formed, plans actively moving forward. The science was believed, it was not controversial. It would have cost a bit to do, but it wouldn't be that hard to actually stop it at that point. I read a phd thesis on what happened about a decade ago. Basically, all the wealthy fucks who own everything swung into action with massive lobbying and propaganda campaigns worldwide. They put enormous pressure on their puppet politicians and convinced much of the public that the science was "controversial" and wrong. They are still doing it to this day and we're dealing with the effects. All to make some more money. They would have still been obscenely rich.

Our main problem is that the worst people of all of us are rewarded with the most power. We still haven't solved that and reality is not waiting for us to do so. I hope we manage to ameliorate the effects we will suffer. I hope we survive and learn from it. I also hope we bring these people to justice too.
 

PS_Snake

Member
Jun 11, 2023
761
I might be stupid for thinking like this and if so please correct me; what can we do as individuals? Surely it's the massive factories, cooperations and massive business that are causing most of this shit to happen. What difference does me recycling stuff have versus big industrial factories doing fuck all? I say this from a perspective of feeling helpless.
 

RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,297
I might be stupid for thinking like this and if so please correct me; what can we do as individuals? Surely it's the massive factories, cooperations and massive business that are causing most of this shit to happen. What difference does me recycling stuff have versus big industrial factories doing fuck all? I say this from a perspective of feeling helpless.
You want an actual answer? Don't just occasionally read the grim headlines and drive yourself to apathy. Seek out actual regular climate news. Engage with new developments for legislation, technologies and studies. Get involved and advocate for specific legislation.

I've been posting weekly news recaps for developments in climate for months now and they go almost entirely ignored. People are not interested in news that can fuel actual advocacy and political engagement. Apathy is much easier.

The only things that get engagement online are the increasingly negative news items that reinforce people's beliefs that things are hopeless and therefore individual responsibility is pointless. Recycling was a scam perpetrated on people by the petrochemical industry it's not where personal responsibility begins or ends. You want to be personally responsible? Inform yourself and act on that information to the best of your ability.
 

Daphne

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,727
I might be stupid for thinking like this and if so please correct me; what can we do as individuals? Surely it's the massive factories, cooperations and massive business that are causing most of this shit to happen. What difference does me recycling stuff have versus big industrial factories doing fuck all? I say this from a perspective of feeling helpless.
Do what you can and don't lose hope. I see doing things in my own life more as a meditation rather than the solution; something to centre me and put me in the right state of mind. Although, if enough of us do make changes, it will help somewhat.

I do think activism, education and political action is the most important, because you are right: this has to be solved on a governmental level as a society with sweeping reform. And we do have more power than the wealthy class, but only if the overwhelming number of us want it and we are organised. We can do it. Things have been shifting for a while now. There's no stopping what is coming because it's already happened. But what we do now will determine how bad it is. Don't ever give up or think what you can do is not worth doing.

Continue to educate yourself, talk to people; join organisations that are doing valuable work in your area; be as politically active as you can - protest, write, call, seek out others and organise.
 

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,117
I might be stupid for thinking like this and if so please correct me; what can we do as individuals? Surely it's the massive factories, cooperations and massive business that are causing most of this shit to happen. What difference does me recycling stuff have versus big industrial factories doing fuck all? I say this from a perspective of feeling helpless.
The single most impactful thing is probably voting for politicians who will enact good climate policy. And then calling those elected representatives and insisting that they follow through on their campaign promises.

Obviously each individual's climate footprint is tiny compared to the corporations, governments, and armies of the world, but it's still worth doing what you can to lower your individual impact. Some of the most impactful things you can do as an individual are:
  • Minimize flying
  • Stop eating red meat
  • Buy less stuff
If you want to go more in depth than that UC Berkeley's CoolClimate Calculator will help you calculate your footprint and identify the most impactful actions you can take.

Plugging all of our numbers into that calculator a few years ago motivated my partner and I to cut way back on meat & animal products, start buying way more things used (when possible), install solar panels, and get into a number of other zero waste practices like composting.

Since we're Americans with family and friends strewn across the whole country and three other continents flying is our biggest sin, but I don't know what we can do about that - tell our parents we won't be seeing them anymore? We take trains whenever possible, and I use Google Flights to filter for which flights have the lowest carbon emissions, but I've had to accept we can't be perfect. At least the CoolClimate calculator reassures me that even with the flying my emissions are 40% lower than average for my area.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,978
Inb4 doomer accusations at climate scientists
Seriously. Maybe I'm just a cynic but whenever one of these threads pop up and someone replies with some YouTuber video essay about how we have plenty of time to change things, I just roll my eyes. Yeah dawg, the people who are fully immersed in this stuff are in despair and not having children due to bleak projections, but Joey McContent can show us the light. It's just optimism grifting instead of the usual angle of ragebaiting.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
I might be stupid for thinking like this and if so please correct me; what can we do as individuals? Surely it's the massive factories, cooperations and massive business that are causing most of this shit to happen. What difference does me recycling stuff have versus big industrial factories doing fuck all? I say this from a perspective of feeling helpless.

recycling is good if you have to buy something and it's actually recyclable, most things aren't though.

Buying less animal products and not flying unless you absolutely have to are really the two big ones. (And voting of course)

Most people don't know just how catastrophic those two things are, a single burger is going to use as much water as 6 months of showering, beef is the #1 driver of deforestation, the methane is egregious, and you will wipe any good an EV does with a single flight.
 

Gr8one

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,804
I find it really depressing how defeated even a community like era can be with climate change.

Nobody knows what to do because we can't do anything because nobody wants to change. top to bottom. until we are all dying and fighting for food, water, shelter I guess we wont see much change in inertia.

It's May 12th and I can't open a window because my city is engulfed in smoke. I'm so tired of this shit.
 

ShroudOfFate

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,539
We needed some hard hitting, universal direct action decades ago against corporations and the global war machine. At this stage, turning your lights off when you leave the room and recycling are negligible.

If you want to do something, you need to go after corporations, billionaires, and anyone with a vested interest in keeping things spiraling.
 
OP
OP
jungius

jungius

Member
Sep 5, 2021
2,726
I might be stupid for thinking like this and if so please correct me; what can we do as individuals? Surely it's the massive factories, cooperations and massive business that are causing most of this shit to happen. What difference does me recycling stuff have versus big industrial factories doing fuck all? I say this from a perspective of feeling helpless.

Well I've done my part by switching to paper straws and reusing bags 🥴

give up meats
minimize air transportation and use EV
conserve waters
give up video games
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,262
Chesire, UK
I might be stupid for thinking like this and if so please correct me; what can we do as individuals?

The biggest change you can make is not having children.

Anything else is trying to bail out the Atlantic Ocean with a thimble.


Changing your diet, or your car, or taking less flights, or recycling is all peanuts. One more vote for parties with good climate policies is only one more vote.

Should you do it? Probably. Will it help? Probably not.
 

BakedTanooki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,782
Germany
I might be stupid for thinking like this and if so please correct me; what can we do as individuals? Surely it's the massive factories, cooperations and massive business that are causing most of this shit to happen. What difference does me recycling stuff have versus big industrial factories doing fuck all? I say this from a perspective of feeling helpless.

Spread the word and join local communities.
Gardening.
Sabotage fossil fuel infrastructure.
 

I Don't Like

Member
Dec 11, 2017
15,003
At some point I think people globally will need to consider inaction and active efforts by politicians to block action on climate as a direct attack against them, their families and their communities, warranting of self-defense. I really don't see any other way. In most of the world, even if you manage to get some serious legislation, it can/will typically just be repealed or undone by the next government. People in power need to be afraid, constantly, no matter who is in power, to force them to keep doing things to reduce the harm climate change will do, especially in more vulnerable places around the world.
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
18,420
At some point I think people globally will need to consider inaction and active efforts by politicians to block action on climate as a direct attack against them, their families and their communities, warranting of self-defense. I really don't see any other way. In most of the world, even if you manage to get some serious legislation, it can/will typically just be repealed or undone by the next government. People in power need to be afraid, constantly, no matter who is in power, to force them to keep doing things to reduce the harm climate change will do, especially in more vulnerable places around the world.

This will never happen while folks think blocking a street is a step too far.
 

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,117
I find it really depressing how defeated even a community like era can be with climate change.

Nobody knows what to do because we can't do anything because nobody wants to change.
Yep. The contrast between threads with people saying "there's nothing we can do" and then threads celebrating conspicuous consumption of frivolous tech and gaming stuff is stark.

The biggest change you can make is not having children.

Anything else is trying to bail out the Atlantic Ocean with a thimble.


Changing your diet, or your car, or taking less flights, or recycling is all peanuts. One more vote for parties with good climate policies is only one more vote.

Should you do it? Probably. Will it help? Probably not.
It will indisputably help. We're ants, but moving the one grain of sand that you have power over is still a part of moving the dune. Telling people it won't help is more harmful than just not posting.

Red meat is an example. Government action to cut red meat consumption straight up will not work unless most people are already comfortable with that change. So yes, it's something individual people can help with.
 

lori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,006
Yep. The contrast between threads with people saying "there's nothing we can do" and then threads celebrating conspicuous consumption of frivolous tech and gaming stuff is stark.


It will indisputably help. We're ants, but moving the one grain of sand that you have power over is still a part of moving the dune. Telling people it won't help is more harmful than just not posting.

Red meat is an example. Government action to cut red meat consumption straight up will not work unless most people are already comfortable with that change. So yes, it's something individual people can help with.
it's such a tiny drop in the bucket compared to jeff bezos going on a rocketship joyride exactly once that it's frankly not even worth mentioning, it's a classic tactic to try and deflect the problems of the ruling class onto us

if you wanted to make meaningful change go start doing public trackers of private jets
 

Stuggernaut

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,008
Seattle, WA, USA
Was just talking about clean energy stuff with a former boss of mine on Friday last week and he told me something I never knew... that in 1979 Carter outfitted the White House with solar panels for heating the water they use there, and there was a goal of growing the usage of renewable energy in the USA moving forward.

Then in the 80's Reagan removed tax breaks for solar energy and took all the panels off the White House during some kind of remodel and never put them back.

That was 50+ years ago... wonder where we would be if that kind of thinking had stuck at the government level.
 

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,117
it's such a tiny drop in the bucket compared to jeff bezos going on a rocketship joyride exactly once that it's frankly not even worth mentioning, it's a classic tactic to try and deflect the problems of the ruling class onto us

if you wanted to make meaningful change go start doing public trackers of private jets
Tygre's post was in response to a question of "what can we do as individuals."

Cutting red meat consumption, buying less stuff, flying less, producing less plastic waste, composting, going vegetarian / vegan, voting for climate-conscious politicians…these all have positive effects on the climate and the world no matter how their impact compares to Jeff Bezos.

Discouraging people from doing things that are good for the world is much more harmful than just not posting.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
21,212
At some point I think people globally will need to consider inaction and active efforts by politicians to block action on climate as a direct attack against them, their families and their communities, warranting of self-defense.
This is where I'm at.

Billions of people are being held hostage by a comparatively few amount of politicians and billionaires, oil barons, and military industrial complex folks. Whatever happens to these classes as the planet heats up is simply what happens at this point.
 

Booshka

Member
May 8, 2018
4,056
Colton, CA
Don't get hung up on not having kids, capitalism is the problem, not more kids. Younger generations are the ones pushing for climate justice and anti-capitalist sentiment because they realize that fossil capital is the problem.

We need more radical and revolutionary kids that are willing to fight for their futures rather than less. Humans are not outside of nature or inherently destructive, indigenous epistemologies and communal ways of living acted as environmental stewardship. We can pivot to a better way of living in a post capitalist society, but you need the people to make the world. So the "don't have kids" attitude is not the right take.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
Yeah, there are better ways to improve society without pitching the "hey everyone let's just make this the last generation of humans" route.
 

Rodelero

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,704
Nothing terrifies me more than the idea that people who care about the planet won't have children while people that don't care will have lots.
 

j7vikes

Definitely not shooting blanks
Member
Jan 5, 2020
6,016
Nothing terrifies me more than the idea that people who care about the planet won't have children while people that don't care will have lots.

Yeah. Have children if you want and teach them well is going to be a net positive compared to just let right wing people make babies.
 

coldsagging

AVALANCHE
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,077
At some point I think people globally will need to consider inaction and active efforts by politicians to block action on climate as a direct attack against them, their families and their communities, warranting of self-defense. I really don't see any other way. In most of the world, even if you manage to get some serious legislation, it can/will typically just be repealed or undone by the next government. People in power need to be afraid, constantly, no matter who is in power, to force them to keep doing things to reduce the harm climate change will do, especially in more vulnerable places around the world.
There was a case recently where two women took the Swiss government to court because the governments inaction put them at higher risk of death from heatwaves and the ruling was in their favour.

It's a start.
Guardian article about it.
 

Tsuyu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,781
At some point I think people globally will need to consider inaction and active efforts by politicians to block action on climate as a direct attack against them, their families and their communities, warranting of self-defense. I really don't see any other way. In most of the world, even if you manage to get some serious legislation, it can/will typically just be repealed or undone by the next government. People in power need to be afraid, constantly, no matter who is in power, to force them to keep doing things to reduce the harm climate change will do, especially in more vulnerable places around the world.

You're right that globally people should view anti climate change politicians and lobbyists as threats to them and humanity at large. It doesn't matter even if these people aren't from my country, I'm impacted by their unrestrained, greedy decisions.
 

Daphne

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,727
it's such a tiny drop in the bucket compared to jeff bezos going on a rocketship joyride exactly once that it's frankly not even worth mentioning, it's a classic tactic to try and deflect the problems of the ruling class onto us
Yep. BP invented the term Carbon Footprint for exactly this reason.

British Petroleum, the second largest non-state owned oil company in the world, with 18,700 gas and service stations worldwide, hired the public relations professionals Ogilvy & Mather to promote the slant that climate change is not the fault of an oil giant, but that of individuals. It's here that British Petroleum, or BP, first promoted and soon successfully popularized the term "carbon footprint" in the early aughts. The company unveiled its "carbon footprint calculator" in 2004 so one could assess how their normal daily life – going to work, buying food, and (gasp) traveling – is largely responsible for heating the globe.