How are the Xenosaga games?
- Thread starter Lamine
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Are you over this?
www.resetera.com
If so good for you.
I can't find the strength nor the time to play RPGs/JRPGs anymore and it's making me sad
I don't have the motivation, the urge to play RPGs that much anymore. I miss being a kid man, I used to play every spare hour I had. Now I'm in my 30's with a backlog of 20+ rpgs and I never played. Being an adult is kinda miserable
www.resetera.com
If so good for you.
Personally I found them to be pretty mediocre and flawed games with each game having a lot of jarring changes (artstyle, voice acting, combat etc). Also has one of the biggest jumping the shark moments I've seen in gaming in the third game. 3 is better than 1 and 2 but not enough to salvage the series imo.
Worth playing imo but easily my least favorite of the Xeno series.
Worth playing imo but easily my least favorite of the Xeno series.
Yeah, don't touch 'em if you still feel like thisAre you over this?
I can't find the strength nor the time to play RPGs/JRPGs anymore and it's making me sad
I don't have the motivation, the urge to play RPGs that much anymore. I miss being a kid man, I used to play every spare hour I had. Now I'm in my 30's with a backlog of 20+ rpgs and I never played. Being an adult is kinda miserable
If so good for you.
OP
OP
At this point, I just play what I wanna play. No pressureAre you over this?
I can't find the strength nor the time to play RPGs/JRPGs anymore and it's making me sad
I don't have the motivation, the urge to play RPGs that much anymore. I miss being a kid man, I used to play every spare hour I had. Now I'm in my 30's with a backlog of 20+ rpgs and I never played. Being an adult is kinda miserable
If so good for you.
cosigned.
I wish we'd get remasters of the trilogy. I still haven't played 3.
They're some of my favourite games, but they're needlessly complicated (and sometimes convoluted) narratively, and a real mixed bag gameplay wise. They suffer from some intense flaws unique to each entry and borne of mismanagement and Namcai Bando meddling due to mediocre sales.
Xenosaga 1 has it's reputation of being a movie for a reason, to the point where the preorder bonus for XS2 was in fact a movie version of XS1. It's no Metal Gear Solid 4, but for a PS2 game the ratio of gameplay to cutscene is still way off, and while it's an enjoyable game with delightful side content and a good story for a clear opening option of a bigger story, you really dont' spend enough time _playing_ the game. It's still very good regardless, just bear that in mind.
Xenosaga 2 is, bar none, one of the worst RPGs I've ever personally played. The gameplay is horrendous, the story has holes you can drive a truck through due to production cuts at the behest of Bandai, the new visual style is jarring, and the VO change in ENglish drastically lowers the quality. The soundtrack also moved from being by Mitsuda to Yuki Kajiura, who is an amazing composer but clearly wasn't sure what she needed to be doing here.
Xenosaga 3, ultimately, is one of my actual favourite games, consistently ranked top 3 in my book. The story, while... wild and convoluted, is satisfying and well told, the gameplay is nearly immacuate, building on the best of both 1 and 2 into something new and incredibly fun, and the XS1 voice cast is mostly back and the revamped artstyle is much more appeak. Kaijura's found her footing for the incredible soundtrack, and overall it's just an incredible package... that absolutely requires playing the first two games to experiance, which is potentially unfortunate.
Xenosaga 1 has it's reputation of being a movie for a reason, to the point where the preorder bonus for XS2 was in fact a movie version of XS1. It's no Metal Gear Solid 4, but for a PS2 game the ratio of gameplay to cutscene is still way off, and while it's an enjoyable game with delightful side content and a good story for a clear opening option of a bigger story, you really dont' spend enough time _playing_ the game. It's still very good regardless, just bear that in mind.
Xenosaga 2 is, bar none, one of the worst RPGs I've ever personally played. The gameplay is horrendous, the story has holes you can drive a truck through due to production cuts at the behest of Bandai, the new visual style is jarring, and the VO change in ENglish drastically lowers the quality. The soundtrack also moved from being by Mitsuda to Yuki Kajiura, who is an amazing composer but clearly wasn't sure what she needed to be doing here.
Xenosaga 3, ultimately, is one of my actual favourite games, consistently ranked top 3 in my book. The story, while... wild and convoluted, is satisfying and well told, the gameplay is nearly immacuate, building on the best of both 1 and 2 into something new and incredibly fun, and the XS1 voice cast is mostly back and the revamped artstyle is much more appeak. Kaijura's found her footing for the incredible soundtrack, and overall it's just an incredible package... that absolutely requires playing the first two games to experiance, which is potentially unfortunate.
I found both 1 & 2 to be fairly flawed in multiple ways (general pacing, slow combat) but they had pretty interesting stories & characters.
The pay-off for Xenosaga III is worth the pain points in 1 & 2 though. Much better game than the other two, and great story pay-offs. The soundtrack in III is probably on the top ten list of any game ever, too. Absolutely killer soundtrack.
The pay-off for Xenosaga III is worth the pain points in 1 & 2 though. Much better game than the other two, and great story pay-offs. The soundtrack in III is probably on the top ten list of any game ever, too. Absolutely killer soundtrack.
Been a long time since I played them. A looong time. I loved Episode 1 when it came out but know it's more like watching an anime than playing a game sometimes. I'm talking like 30 minute cutscenes. It's writing is also very 2000s anime, either you love it or you don't.
Episode 2 was very disappointing to me when it came out. I didn't like the change in art-style or voice actors at the time. But more than that this was back when it was supposed to be like a 6 game series and the pacing feels like it. It's very slow and often feels like a side story.
Never got around to Episode 3 but it's apparently the best of the bunch. Sadly it's way too expensive to justify nowadays. It was also censored for violence. They really need to do an HD trilogy but they've made it clear it'll never happen, sadly.
Episode 2 was very disappointing to me when it came out. I didn't like the change in art-style or voice actors at the time. But more than that this was back when it was supposed to be like a 6 game series and the pacing feels like it. It's very slow and often feels like a side story.
Never got around to Episode 3 but it's apparently the best of the bunch. Sadly it's way too expensive to justify nowadays. It was also censored for violence. They really need to do an HD trilogy but they've made it clear it'll never happen, sadly.
I've only played the first one, but I recall liking it (especially the card game) but felt it was disappointing when compared to Xenogears.
They are a pretty mixed bag. They had to course correct a lot between each entry while the budget just got smaller and smaller...
The first game is probably my least favorite and it mostly comes down to being more of an interactive movie than anything else. Even the combat just amounts to watching a bunch of stuff happen and you don't ever have to put much thought into anything. The product values for this game are pretty insane though. It's easy to see all the effort that went into it. You can watch a youtube video and basically get the same experience as playing it.
The second game is the most divisive. They put a lot of effort into making it a much more engaging experience and I personally feel like they succeeded. There is a lot going on in the combat now and in dungeons now. There is also a lot of side content which is interesting. Unfortunately a lot of this is at odds with what fans wanted. The new new artstyle is kind of a hard sell too. They went for a more realistic look and it looks pretty dated as a result.
The last game game is pretty different from the other two but I feel like they nailed the gameplay down. The combat has a lot more going on than Ep1, but isn't as much of a slog as Ep2. Dungeons exploration is still pretty interesting and they kept a lot of the puzzle elements from Ep2. The artstyle for this game is excellent and still looks pretty damn good to do this day. They had to condense down a lot of the story elements from what was originally planned (and a huge character moment basically happened off-screen) but the ending still hits pretty hard. Hard not to shed some tears by the end. If there was ever a remake this is absolutely the template they should use.
The first game is probably my least favorite and it mostly comes down to being more of an interactive movie than anything else. Even the combat just amounts to watching a bunch of stuff happen and you don't ever have to put much thought into anything. The product values for this game are pretty insane though. It's easy to see all the effort that went into it. You can watch a youtube video and basically get the same experience as playing it.
The second game is the most divisive. They put a lot of effort into making it a much more engaging experience and I personally feel like they succeeded. There is a lot going on in the combat now and in dungeons now. There is also a lot of side content which is interesting. Unfortunately a lot of this is at odds with what fans wanted. The new new artstyle is kind of a hard sell too. They went for a more realistic look and it looks pretty dated as a result.
The last game game is pretty different from the other two but I feel like they nailed the gameplay down. The combat has a lot more going on than Ep1, but isn't as much of a slog as Ep2. Dungeons exploration is still pretty interesting and they kept a lot of the puzzle elements from Ep2. The artstyle for this game is excellent and still looks pretty damn good to do this day. They had to condense down a lot of the story elements from what was originally planned (and a huge character moment basically happened off-screen) but the ending still hits pretty hard. Hard not to shed some tears by the end. If there was ever a remake this is absolutely the template they should use.
Don't forget that the DS version for Episode II is Takahashi's vision and cuts all the bad stuff. Part of the reason episode II is hated is because it's such a huge departure from episode I and the character design is rushed. I wouldn't know for sure if a remaster would give us the DS version changes but it seems likely. There is such a bad history during episode II's development days with Soraya Saga being kicked off the series and more. Read here if interested: http://xenogearsxenosagastudyguide.blogspot.com/p/the-history-of-xenosaga.html?m=1
Some of my fave games, but as mentioned by others, they can be tough lol.
XS1 has a looooot of high concepts and mysteries that won't get answered in the first game, and a lot of cutscenes. The battle system is a bit slow, but it's a good turn based system.
XS2 is rough. Has some great story moments, but the battle system is hard to get into. Honestly, because this one is quite short (like 20-25 hours?), the easiest one to just watch a cutscene compilation of. The story also suffers here because they were obviously jettisoning some concepts because they probably already knew they weren't going to get more games, and they put someone in the director's chair that likely didn't "get" some of the story.
XS3, against all odds, really pulls out the stops for the finale of a story that got cut off 3 games early, and was tossing concepts out in the second game. It's got a much more streamlined battle system, it's easy enough to get into, and fast paced. But it's really worth it for the story, I think. If you make it through 1 and 2, 3 is a really great payoff.
Also, Shion is a great protagonist, haters in the 2000s were the worst, and I fear how much more hate she will get if the series is remastered lol.
XS1 has a looooot of high concepts and mysteries that won't get answered in the first game, and a lot of cutscenes. The battle system is a bit slow, but it's a good turn based system.
XS2 is rough. Has some great story moments, but the battle system is hard to get into. Honestly, because this one is quite short (like 20-25 hours?), the easiest one to just watch a cutscene compilation of. The story also suffers here because they were obviously jettisoning some concepts because they probably already knew they weren't going to get more games, and they put someone in the director's chair that likely didn't "get" some of the story.
XS3, against all odds, really pulls out the stops for the finale of a story that got cut off 3 games early, and was tossing concepts out in the second game. It's got a much more streamlined battle system, it's easy enough to get into, and fast paced. But it's really worth it for the story, I think. If you make it through 1 and 2, 3 is a really great payoff.
Also, Shion is a great protagonist, haters in the 2000s were the worst, and I fear how much more hate she will get if the series is remastered lol.
Forgot about this. I would kill for a translation of this.
If I remember correctly, Ep3 works off the DS version of Xeno1/2 as well.
The first one I absolutely loved, then the second one they changed pretty much everything including the art style. I hated it, third felt really low budget.
I've read it before, I honestly hope that if they do actually revisit Xenosaga it's remade with Takahashi and Soraya's full vision.
Genuinely don't get the hate for Shion she's great, probably my favorite part of the Saga games (she is wayyy better than KOS-MOS imo).
Poor OP. He wants to scratch that Xenoblade X itch so bad, he's willing to try Xenosaga.
They're ok? It's tricky to say because...
Episode 1 is alright but a little frustrating.
Episode 2 kinda blows.
But Episode 3 is legitimately great.
The OST is amazing, the story is honestly quite great, but parts of the game feel very looooong. It's kinda great to see the start of Monolith's very "cinematic heavy" approach take root here. Like, the amount of polish between titles is so cool to see.
They're ok? It's tricky to say because...
Episode 1 is alright but a little frustrating.
Episode 2 kinda blows.
But Episode 3 is legitimately great.
The OST is amazing, the story is honestly quite great, but parts of the game feel very looooong. It's kinda great to see the start of Monolith's very "cinematic heavy" approach take root here. Like, the amount of polish between titles is so cool to see.
I love Shion. I can understand not being down with her archetype, but like, she's so good.
I can understand not being into a super depressed, self sabotaging protagonist, but most of the criticism was "she's annoying and shrill", and it's like, fuck off. Lol
I remember 2 being hard as fuck, not sure if I was playing it wrong or I missed some mechanics but after a while a single fight with a random enemy felt like a boss fight that would take me 30 min and I wouldn't even survive it most of the the times, I had to give up. As for the plot they are great imho and you cannot play one without playing the game before since they are direct continuations
I was surprised to hear people not liking shion, I like her more than the blade leads
Xenosaga 1 is a bit of a flawed gem. It has moments of absolute brilliance, but you can tell that it was very much Monolith Soft in the early days trying to do something way too ambitious for their own good. The game's reputation as a movie is well deserved - many of the cutscenes are very lengthy. Even by today standards, some of the cutscenes are infamously long and can go on for 30 minutes or more in-between short sections of gameplay. The gameplay is also very rough in spots, and you'll notice this with dungeons that don't have any music, gameplay sequences that really feel repetitive and could have been cut down, and repetition within the music that is used. There's no boss battle theme, for example. Just a single battle theme used for the entire game until the final boss. Lastly, the game as a whole falls victim to showing you things, rather than letting you experience them for yourself. For example, it shows you how strong KOS-MOS, rather than having KOS-MOS be strong in gameplay. This is something that Monolith Soft got much better at by the time of the Xenoblade games. Still, if you can get past the flaws, Xenosaga 1 is a lot of fun to play and has that early PS2 charm to it. The battle system is very complex and has a lot of depth to it. The cast of characters have a level of depth and complexity to them that you will not find in most other RPGs. And the world and lore are so complex that they had provide a database to the game just so you could reference things as you go.
Xenosaga 2... well it's a disappointment. It fixed a lot of flaws from Xenosaga 1, but it also is ultimately nothing more than the scenes that should have been in Xenosaga 1 originally. The combat system was simplified, and the game isn't very long as a whole. Character customization was significantly simplified too in the worst way possible. The whole game is about 20-30 hours, and that's taking into account some filler that doesn't really need to exist. Tetsuya Takahashi essentially passed control (or was kicked off) to a different developer team, and it shows. The art style is very different and the music composer is different too. That being said, it does have some good elements to it - Yuki Kajiura provides some fantastic songs (she provided a lot of the cutscene music), and there are a few cool moments here and there. The introduction of E.S units are also welcomed and more interesting than the A.G.W.S. units of the first game.
Xenosaga 3 is actually the best game in the series - it's one of the best RPGs on the PS2, in fact. I would go as far as to put it in my top ten or top 20 list. It has a fantastic combat system with a decent amount of depth, the cast is at their most likable, an art style that strikes a good balance between the first and second game (while resembling Xenogears in some areas), there's a good balance between story and gameplay, and Yuki Kajiura did the ENTIRE soundtrack this time - gameplay and story. If you can find a copy of the game, I highly recommend it. Unfortunately, there are a few issues not related to the game itself, but surrounding it. Firstly, copies of it are very expensive - If you didn't get it at launch, it's very hard to get ahold. Secondly, the English version of the game has some censorship. Not enough to ruin the experience, but it still is very unfortunately. Thirdly, Tetsuya Takahashi had limited involvement, and if you've listened closely to the comments made over the years, it is clear that the vision him and his wife had would have involved SO MUCH MORE than what this game involves. Lastly, there's a huge initial investment cost in that you have to play or watch the first two games to fully understand what is truly going on with this one.
Xenosaga 2... well it's a disappointment. It fixed a lot of flaws from Xenosaga 1, but it also is ultimately nothing more than the scenes that should have been in Xenosaga 1 originally. The combat system was simplified, and the game isn't very long as a whole. Character customization was significantly simplified too in the worst way possible. The whole game is about 20-30 hours, and that's taking into account some filler that doesn't really need to exist. Tetsuya Takahashi essentially passed control (or was kicked off) to a different developer team, and it shows. The art style is very different and the music composer is different too. That being said, it does have some good elements to it - Yuki Kajiura provides some fantastic songs (she provided a lot of the cutscene music), and there are a few cool moments here and there. The introduction of E.S units are also welcomed and more interesting than the A.G.W.S. units of the first game.
Xenosaga 3 is actually the best game in the series - it's one of the best RPGs on the PS2, in fact. I would go as far as to put it in my top ten or top 20 list. It has a fantastic combat system with a decent amount of depth, the cast is at their most likable, an art style that strikes a good balance between the first and second game (while resembling Xenogears in some areas), there's a good balance between story and gameplay, and Yuki Kajiura did the ENTIRE soundtrack this time - gameplay and story. If you can find a copy of the game, I highly recommend it. Unfortunately, there are a few issues not related to the game itself, but surrounding it. Firstly, copies of it are very expensive - If you didn't get it at launch, it's very hard to get ahold. Secondly, the English version of the game has some censorship. Not enough to ruin the experience, but it still is very unfortunately. Thirdly, Tetsuya Takahashi had limited involvement, and if you've listened closely to the comments made over the years, it is clear that the vision him and his wife had would have involved SO MUCH MORE than what this game involves. Lastly, there's a huge initial investment cost in that you have to play or watch the first two games to fully understand what is truly going on with this one.
Unlikely but I know for sure we will be getting Xenosaga stuff in whatever the next thing is. I don't expect any big Xenosaga characters to appear except maybe KOS-MOS. She probably would be rebuilt into something new considering she got destroyed though. It won't be until the end of the next thing that Xenosaga is fully connected, imo.
The game does an incredibly poor job of explaining how the general flow of battle is suppose to go. Basically, each character attack has a type and you are meant to attack enemies with attacks they are weak to. When you did this you had the opportunity to gain a stock. The more you had, the better attacks you could use. If you look back at a lot of the criticism of Episode 2, it seems like most people were not aware that this was a thing as most seem to describe the combat as just wasting turns using the stock command until they were capped and then attacking. What an absolutely miserable way to play the game lol.
I'm curious what you mean by simplified. Many would argue the combat in Episode 2 was more complex than it needed to be. It's also coming after a game were you merely had to spam the same overpowered attacks battle after battle. The character customization was as good as you wanted it to be. You could easily build characters for different roles. Though I agreed that certain abilities were too useful not to have on everyone.
I think a lot of people played 1 only, and came to the conclusion that she was "self righteous", shrill, and annoying, and I remember a lot of "Shion sucks" back in the day.
I actually remember reading that Shulk was made in response to the dislike Shion got, so Shulk was made generally nice, affable, and uncomplicated (in comparison to Shion).
Honestly, I haven't played them in a LONG time, but I loved XS1 when it first came out.
XS2 was shit. I hated the combat, but from what I've read since it sounds like I just didn't "get" the combat. (See Jhey's comment above)
XS3 is a fantastic RPG. One of my all time favorites. Such a great payoff, and really impressed with what they did considering the series was cut in half.
Think I still have my copies of 1 and 3 around. Would love to replay these in a remaster but sounds like it ain't happening.
XS2 was shit. I hated the combat, but from what I've read since it sounds like I just didn't "get" the combat. (See Jhey's comment above)
XS3 is a fantastic RPG. One of my all time favorites. Such a great payoff, and really impressed with what they did considering the series was cut in half.
Think I still have my copies of 1 and 3 around. Would love to replay these in a remaster but sounds like it ain't happening.
One of the merits of Episode 2 is that its the start of monolith soft games having some of the coolest fight choreography in game cutscenes.
XS1 is a 7 - good but slow, very sci-fi compared to XB. Awkward character models.
XS2 is a 5 or 6 - not good, mercifully short, has a very narrow story that leaves a lot of gaps to connect the third game, and the updated character models are a mixed bag.
XS3 is an 8 - great, fantastic soundtrack, memorable cutscenes, has many of the flashy anime style fight scenes XB would later be known for. They changed the character models again --finally looked good.
Someone here attempted an LTTP run of Saga a couple years ago and they stopped at 2, so it's a struggle.
XS2 is a 5 or 6 - not good, mercifully short, has a very narrow story that leaves a lot of gaps to connect the third game, and the updated character models are a mixed bag.
XS3 is an 8 - great, fantastic soundtrack, memorable cutscenes, has many of the flashy anime style fight scenes XB would later be known for. They changed the character models again --finally looked good.
Someone here attempted an LTTP run of Saga a couple years ago and they stopped at 2, so it's a struggle.
The skill system was reduced to the point that every single character had the same skill tree. Tech Attack customization was basically removed. While there was still some depth (more obtuseness than anything, really) to the system, this is the very definition of simplifying.
Coincidentally, both of these returned in Xenosaga 3. Not quite in the form I would have liked in the case of tech attacks tho.
EDIT: I will say I did like some aspects of Xenosaga 2's combat system, re-reading over your post, and I do think it's unfortunate we will probably not see Monolith Soft tackle turn based ever again after Xenoblade. I'd love to be proven wrong however.
This is true. There are some AWESOME cutscenes in Xenosaga 2 and the Yuki Kajirua soundtrack is just so good with them.
I feel like an outlier here, I thought Xenosaga 1 was clearly the best. Xenosaga 3 is pretty good.
Xenosaga 2 is horrendous.
Xenosaga 2 is horrendous.
Episode 1 & 2 are bad videogames with interesting world building and narrative setups.
Episode 3 is a great videogame with a fucking stupid story that whiffs on all of the payoffs setup in the prior games.
Maybe watch a "Xenosaga the Movie" YouTube video for the first two games, imagine your desired ending to the series, then play the 3rd game purely for fun?
Episode 3 is a great videogame with a fucking stupid story that whiffs on all of the payoffs setup in the prior games.
Maybe watch a "Xenosaga the Movie" YouTube video for the first two games, imagine your desired ending to the series, then play the 3rd game purely for fun?
- Intriguing story as the spiritual successor of Xenogears.
- Prepare for long cut-scenes, but they are good & entertaining enough for me.
- Good turn based battle system; visually flashy & but tactical.
- OST still have that Mitsuda's Xenogears style, but unfortunately not his best & very sparse.
- Overall story was kinda short, because this was intended to be Episode I.
- Length depends on how much you want 100% & grinding.
- Entertaining game overall.
Enjoyed them a long time ago but I'm not sure I could replay them now. Shion was an interesting protagonist and not typically what you'd expect which I liked. It goes pretty hard off the rails at the end. Gameplay in all three is fine. You aren't coming to these games for that anyway.
Sadly, the fan translation effort on XS1+2 stalled out years ago and shows no signs of being returned to.
This is where I fall, and it's why I don't feel the need to revisit the series. At the time I remember being super-hyped by Episode 1's narrative mysteries, cutscene reveals, etc. and was therefore willing to slog through gameplay which, upon reflection, was on the mediocre side. And then I played through Episode 3 and couldn't believe that all the narrative setup from the first game was meant to lead up to... that.
I don't even think the additional planned games would have fixed the story issues. Definitely a case of "better to show less and let the audience reach their own conclusions and develop their own theories rather than spelling things out and confirming just how silly the plot really is."
I can only tell you about Episode 1 and 2, because I didn't play 3.
Episode 1 is a good game that really set the series up for success, but Episode 2 made very bad changes to the battle system. The sidequests in Episode 2 are atrocious, and I regret slogging through them. The characters and story may be enough for some, but this is just one of the worst JRPGs I've played from a gameplay aspect. The only part of Episode 2 that I actually like is the music.
I heard that Episode 3 is a return to form, but the astronomical prices for used copies of that game are a big barrier. Personally, I don't think you should bother with these games unless they somehow become repackaged in a collection (which probably won't ever happen).
Episode 1 is a good game that really set the series up for success, but Episode 2 made very bad changes to the battle system. The sidequests in Episode 2 are atrocious, and I regret slogging through them. The characters and story may be enough for some, but this is just one of the worst JRPGs I've played from a gameplay aspect. The only part of Episode 2 that I actually like is the music.
I heard that Episode 3 is a return to form, but the astronomical prices for used copies of that game are a big barrier. Personally, I don't think you should bother with these games unless they somehow become repackaged in a collection (which probably won't ever happen).
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Personally story-wise it fet like a trilogy where the first two games cover the one third and the last game (and the games/media that stayed in Japan) covers 2/3. The third is the best but it's really fascinating after two games of build up how fast things have to be revealed because they only had one game left.
Still really liked it as it's much pure Sci-fi.
Still really liked it as it's much pure Sci-fi.