Moderation and content promotion, automatic or not, gives those in charge of it responsibility for the content that is promoted and the results of moderation, so, yes.
How "guilty" do you think are social media/YT-like plattforms regarding the rise of right wing ideologies?
- Thread starter Chairmanchuck (另一个我)
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For young people, yes. These right wing mouth breathers prey on vulnerable, insecure boys/men to make them feel welcome in their hate group.
For the most part of the world, anger is a very valuable emotion, it sells! The most read newspaper have a right wing bias, and have an opinion on bloody everything. Fox News sells anger, Britain has a new "Good Morning Britian" shows that's helping everyone's blood pressure sky rocket.
They say it's the left that get easily triggered and outraged, but that's how right wing media gets its customers. Bread crumbs of things that anger most people, then trap you into getting angry about Black Lives Matter and Antifa.
For the most part of the world, anger is a very valuable emotion, it sells! The most read newspaper have a right wing bias, and have an opinion on bloody everything. Fox News sells anger, Britain has a new "Good Morning Britian" shows that's helping everyone's blood pressure sky rocket.
They say it's the left that get easily triggered and outraged, but that's how right wing media gets its customers. Bread crumbs of things that anger most people, then trap you into getting angry about Black Lives Matter and Antifa.
The only reason they drag their feet or bury their heads when it comes to being progressive and deplatforming is that they are very aware of the potential loss of money. They are profiteers of hate. They're guilty.
That you think moderating extremist positions on a private platform is dangerous perfectly encapsulates why I think they are dangerous and at fault for the spread of extremist positions.
A shit ton of guilt. But technology always does this. It's integral to the story of racism from the printing press to Birth of a Nation to prosperity gospel radio to the selective coverage of television news and politics in the 60s. We should have seen it coming, but money is blinding.
Check out this podcast from the NY TIMES. Really demonstrates just how guilty they are:
https://www.nytimes.com/column/rabbit-hole
https://www.nytimes.com/column/rabbit-hole
I don't think they're responsible for the rise of right-wing ideologies--conservatism always has and probably always will be a thing--but I do think they shoulder considerable blame in the radicalization of the right wing and/or surge in conspiracy theory horseshit.
That said, I think it's dangerous to try and pin the problem entirely or even chiefly on social media, as it effectively absolves the people literally and directly responsible for weaponizing it to that end, whether as part of homegrown terrorist movements or foreign psy-ops.
That said, I think it's dangerous to try and pin the problem entirely or even chiefly on social media, as it effectively absolves the people literally and directly responsible for weaponizing it to that end, whether as part of homegrown terrorist movements or foreign psy-ops.
I don't think Twitter and Reddit were conceived with hateful, divisive rhetoric in mind, but they're definitely being sustained - at least in part - by it, and they're definitely turning a blind eye for financial reasons.
There was a point for all these platforms, plus Facebook, where more restrictive moderation would have stemmed the tide of racism, sexism etc. And all of them let it fly past.
I can kind of buy the argument that all the social media platforms (except Facebook, which was demonstrably created out of malice and misanthropy) were founded on the very privileged idea that the whole world was just Silicon Valley, and that we'd all link arms over social media and everyone would be happy. I can give Dorsey and Ohanian some leeway there, because I think they started their platforms on misguided ideals. Zuckerberg, as mentioned, is a different breed.
Where I can't let Dorsey and co. off the hook is that it became apparent years ago that the wider world wasn't what they thought it was. It was full of racism, sexism, transphobia and so on. But none of the platform owners acted when that became obvious. Until literally last month, they kept falling back on their unrealistic, utopian vision for social media - which had been unmoored from reality for a very long time.
Long story short, I think Zuckerberg and Facebook should shoulder more blame than the others, because I believe that platform was rotten from the beginning. But that doesn't absolve Twitter and Reddit, because they had a chance to act and they refused.
Like 100% guilty. They did nothing to stop it because the ad money was more important to them than the danger of allowing these groups to recruit and organize. These elements were always there, but it was hard as hell for them to organize and social media made it easy. I can forgive if they didn't think that racists would use their platform, but I can't forgive their total inaction once it was clearly known what these people were using your platform to do.
As guilty as the tobacco companies were about the harms of smoking.
It wasn't just inaction that was hurtful. Even when their own studies showed that their technology was fueling outrage and misinformation, they doubled down on it because it's what sold the most
It wasn't just inaction that was hurtful. Even when their own studies showed that their technology was fueling outrage and misinformation, they doubled down on it because it's what sold the most
People just spent more time on the net nowadays and more people have access.
Echo chambers exist everywhere will be created on every possible platform, just like it does on message boards.
They had a big impact in the end but would have probably been similar else wise.
Echo chambers exist everywhere will be created on every possible platform, just like it does on message boards.
They had a big impact in the end but would have probably been similar else wise.
I think a lot of this stuff is just exposing our poor education systems. There's no inquiry. No critical thinking. No examining the other side critically. We're basically sheep to be manipulated. Not only that but media literacy is very low. Many folks believe anything just because it is online, from old school chain emails to persuasive Fox News personalities.
Youtube, FB is only exposing that fault. FB is worse since they don't believe in moderating political speech, even if it is false.
Youtube, FB is only exposing that fault. FB is worse since they don't believe in moderating political speech, even if it is false.
The big thing here is community. Before if you were racist you had to find fellow racists in your home town, and you had to risk outing yourself to the wrong person. Now you can find thousands of people just like you in one search without compromising your identity and find communities that support your hate. Social media gave them a platform and a voice and they were not shy of making use of it.
While I do agree with you, the fact is that we do have an extremely poor education system and even if we fixed it today we still have people ages 18-85 who have no chance of getting a better education. Waiting 60+ years for things to "work itself out" has been shown to not be a great plan of action.
We have to deal with the reality we've got, and the most effective way of doing that is de-platforming these extremist views.
The real reason these companies won't do anything about this problem is the second they do the conservatives in government are going to start passing laws and executive orders regulating these tech companies and that's the last thing these companies they want. They like that their entire industry is unregulated. So fuck it, flush society down the toilet in the name of massive profits.
Just as much, if not more, than your Fox News and Breitbarts. While the latter are the ones churning out the propaganda, social media has made it super fucking easy to spread it to the masses.
Extremely guilty. They've been used as a pipeline to further radicalize people and even after that evidence has been laid bare they still refuse to change. Heads need to roll the minute the GOP is out of the government.
Home run. I posted above about how technology does this every time, and your post is sort of what I mean. We get a little more shocked each time we can easily see how distorted/manipulated our day-to-day reality is.
These companies make money on understanding the data of what is being viewed, created and shared so they were obviously in on it from the start.
Even worse was Facebook's role in the genocide in Myanmar.
Facebook really might be one of the most evil companies on the planet.
Even worse was Facebook's role in the genocide in Myanmar.
Facebook really might be one of the most evil companies on the planet.
I think this is what really frustrates me whenever anybody throws out how they shouldn't be moderating their platforms. Making suggestions and pushing content to you is disproportionately elevating voices. It is a choice they are making. Just because it was an algorithm that pushed it means nothing. The algorithm was made by humans, it gives priorities based on criteria set by humans.
The lack of moderation has always seemed crazy to me, but in many ways, it reflects the outside world. The people whose job it should be to protect others and keep society to a certain standard of behavior are failing to do so, to the benefit of the ones perpetrating the worst offenses.
Guilty as hell.
But I think you're overselling the innocence of the internet prior to those things becoming mainstream. The internet prior to social media and YouTube was an incredibly non-inclusive, toxic, racist, sexist, ableist, bully heavy, etc place. It created a humor and culture that was able to be hijacked and capitalized by the things you mention in the OP, but I think it's a complete mischaracterization to say that the internet before those things was in any way shape or form problem free. Not even close.
But I think you're overselling the innocence of the internet prior to those things becoming mainstream. The internet prior to social media and YouTube was an incredibly non-inclusive, toxic, racist, sexist, ableist, bully heavy, etc place. It created a humor and culture that was able to be hijacked and capitalized by the things you mention in the OP, but I think it's a complete mischaracterization to say that the internet before those things was in any way shape or form problem free. Not even close.
They build algorithms that grab people's viewing habits by unrelated threads and throw them down rabbit holes of demagoguery and hatred. Introducing and reinforcing viewpoints that should have no place in civil society. This profiting from more and more views as people are drawn further and further in. And then they say "well it's just the algorithm so we bear no blame." And claim that moderation is either too expensive (for billion dollar companies that produce billionaires) or that they cannot moderate *free speech* (while suppressing democratic critics of authoritarians and lgtb voices generally).
