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How ok are you, really, with Joe Biden as the Democratic nominee?
- Thread starter Exellus
- Start date
I think the key to beating Trump will be talking about policy. Make Donald Trump respond to policy arguments. He's terrible at talking about policy related matters.
Biden enjoys talking about character, integrity, soul, etc. I can see Biden getting into the rabbit hole of shit talking.
An issues focused candidate that stays on message I think has the best chance of beating Trump.
A candidate that can talk about how their ideas will help disaffected people will sound better than the loud orange man ranting about immigrants.
Biden enjoys talking about character, integrity, soul, etc. I can see Biden getting into the rabbit hole of shit talking.
An issues focused candidate that stays on message I think has the best chance of beating Trump.
A candidate that can talk about how their ideas will help disaffected people will sound better than the loud orange man ranting about immigrants.
We can look forward to being called quislings for not pledging full-throated support for Pete Buttigieg in a 37-candidate Democratic primary sometime in April 2023.
Could be worse, I'll live and vote for him in the general, but I'm certainly not getting behind him in the primary.
I will be nervous though, I think the more exposure he gets the worse he will come off, and a general election will provide max exposure.
I will be nervous though, I think the more exposure he gets the worse he will come off, and a general election will provide max exposure.
Less likely doesn't mean she'd lose. The other poster said she'd lose
Policy-wise he's only above the joke candidates for me. Personality-wise he's meh. I won't be thrilled if he's the nom, but he's so night-and-day better than what we have that I'll be relatively thrilled if he becomes President.
You misinterpret what I'm saying. His victory over Clinton was, as you say, not clear at all. I'm saying a win over Biden would be. I understand why the early polling showed him having the best chance to defeat Trump, but I don't think he would hold up against what's in store should he win the nomination
It's encouraging that the overwhelming majority of replies say they're going to vote against Trump regardless of who their favorite is.
Right on.
Those electability polls vastly distort results depending on the name recognition and public familiarity of the candidates. Biden is exponentially more well-known than Warren. Only 3% of voters say they've "never heard" of Biden. But 14% of voters say they've never heard of Warren. Almost 5x the number as Biden. That Warren is able to still beat Trump at this point in these skewed electability polls speaks to her strong potential to win. There's a lot of campaigning left to be done.
I believe the real hyperbole is implying that foreign affairs and immigration have become especially bad in recent years when the reality is that people just didn't discuss it as much when Obama was president because Obama's brand wasn't overt racism. And I don't believe that addressing the fact that America has always had this problem is hyperbole.
I've not forgotten about the time a few weeks back when a voter asked Biden why he should be trusted after the Obama-era deportations, and Biden's response was "just vote Trump then". Actions like that are what make me believe that he would be an awful president.
Well, yeah. Asking me if I think Trump sucks doesn't have much to do with the point I'm making. Everyone on this board should think Trump sucks. It's a moot point.
If Biden wins the nom, the general location will be a version of the Trolley Problem.
If you don't vote and Trump wins, you didn't necesarily cause it. But you did nothing to help.
If you do vote and Biden wins, yeah its not a great outcome but you at least "saved' others/country from more damage.
If you don't vote and Trump wins, you didn't necesarily cause it. But you did nothing to help.
If you do vote and Biden wins, yeah its not a great outcome but you at least "saved' others/country from more damage.
I would rather have another nominee, but I would have to vote for the lesser of 2 evils. So, I would have vote Biden.
If the dem nominee in the general were a damp paper bag filled with sand I would vote for it. In fact I'd choose that over Biden but if the ballot says Biden, that's what I'm marking bright and early on Election Day 2020.
I also think he'll lose. Trump's base has shrunken a tiny bit iirc but between them and the gop elements that will pretend to hold their noses and vote for him to keep getting Federalist society judges through, he'll still have a large portion of the electorate. Meanwhile in Iowa Biden is being repeatedly confronted with the Ukraine business and responding uhhh inelegantly. It is but-her-emails all over again and it would kneecap him as a candidate.
I also think he'll lose. Trump's base has shrunken a tiny bit iirc but between them and the gop elements that will pretend to hold their noses and vote for him to keep getting Federalist society judges through, he'll still have a large portion of the electorate. Meanwhile in Iowa Biden is being repeatedly confronted with the Ukraine business and responding uhhh inelegantly. It is but-her-emails all over again and it would kneecap him as a candidate.
I want Trump gone. I want him gone in anyway possible. That said I think Biden is a good person and I don't feel uncomfortable with him. I'm realistic in what can and can't get done. I'm not willing to take chances and I don't care for or believe in burning everything down. Is Biden the best possible choice? No. In fact I think everyone running is a worse choice than Hillary in terms of accomplishments, experience, and outreach. Some of the far left, plenty of sexist, and a LOT of racist blew up that possible outcome so I can't get my person of choice or who I really want. Out of those running Biden is the most believe-able possibility of beating Trump. I can see a lot of white people on that edge who took a chance with Trump swinging back with him.
"Getting more on the left out to vote is the key" is what I hear some saying. That only works if you can do that across the states Dems need to win. It's pointless if you're only running up the numbers in Dem stronghold states. That's the biggest flaw with focusing mainly on getting people on your side out to vote. It's malpractice to ignore those people in the edge. There aren't many but they're there. Especially in the face of huge voter suppression. You gotta fight against that but you need to find a way to make up some of those numbers.
In the end i want a return to some damn normal first. I want to be able to have a god damn f'n week without rolling my eyes, getting upset, or cursing at how damn stupid and racist this country is. Biden is the best way to do that I see at this point based on who I see voting for him. Then I'll worry about upending a system or two.
"Getting more on the left out to vote is the key" is what I hear some saying. That only works if you can do that across the states Dems need to win. It's pointless if you're only running up the numbers in Dem stronghold states. That's the biggest flaw with focusing mainly on getting people on your side out to vote. It's malpractice to ignore those people in the edge. There aren't many but they're there. Especially in the face of huge voter suppression. You gotta fight against that but you need to find a way to make up some of those numbers.
In the end i want a return to some damn normal first. I want to be able to have a god damn f'n week without rolling my eyes, getting upset, or cursing at how damn stupid and racist this country is. Biden is the best way to do that I see at this point based on who I see voting for him. Then I'll worry about upending a system or two.
I'm fine with it. Biden would put good people around him and I don't doubt he could beat Trump. I think the Veep will be important.. Hillary picked a dude who was really a no name and that hurt her I think. A young superstar would really help sell the ticket.
I dont live in the US, but have always had to vote against my preference in order to lend some support against the spread of something far worse. Unfortunately, trying to stop the right while it continues to erode everything of value often seems like a losing battle.
In my opinion Biden is too far right and a status quo Democrat in 2021 is not what the world needs to move forward in the face of rising fascism, wealth inequality, climate change, anti intellectualism and bigotry. The world is on it's back foot and needs a visionary progressive leader with access to a large economy - not some moderate old white man who at most will slow the pace of decay.
But the US seems to be in this weird state where, even now, Trump needs to be beaten. Even now, so many people support Trump that he stands a chance. That is just mind blowing. So, if Biden is the only way forward then go for it and hope that come 2024 you have crushed the right and can move on to an actual progressive visionary.
In my opinion Biden is too far right and a status quo Democrat in 2021 is not what the world needs to move forward in the face of rising fascism, wealth inequality, climate change, anti intellectualism and bigotry. The world is on it's back foot and needs a visionary progressive leader with access to a large economy - not some moderate old white man who at most will slow the pace of decay.
But the US seems to be in this weird state where, even now, Trump needs to be beaten. Even now, so many people support Trump that he stands a chance. That is just mind blowing. So, if Biden is the only way forward then go for it and hope that come 2024 you have crushed the right and can move on to an actual progressive visionary.
"Lost all hope in humanity" tier.
If Biden wins the primary, then that's when I officially change my party registration to Independent. And when we get shellacked in 2022, during or after a recession, and Biden starts on his austerity bulldozer where he once again tries to bargain this country to GOP terrorists, then that's when I get more serious and start looking for other countries to live; because at that point 2024 won't go much better.
82 year old Biden in 2024 for another term LMAO. Fuck you America for even entertaining this scenario, especially with the planet on fire. Garbage tier country.
If Biden wins the primary, then that's when I officially change my party registration to Independent. And when we get shellacked in 2022, during or after a recession, and Biden starts on his austerity bulldozer where he once again tries to bargain this country to GOP terrorists, then that's when I get more serious and start looking for other countries to live; because at that point 2024 won't go much better.
82 year old Biden in 2024 for another term LMAO. Fuck you America for even entertaining this scenario, especially with the planet on fire. Garbage tier country.
Dude was in for Stop and Frisk until it became politically non-winnable and he wanted to do the president thing. Aside from the fact that he's a shitbag multibillionaire and his motivations for entering the race are obviously to protect his wealth in the face of mounting public pressure for redistribution, his commitment to racist policy as a matter of his mayoral tenure basically makes him the George Wallace of the part of America north of the Mason-Dixon line.
As far as I'm concerned someone favoring Bloomberg over Trump wants politics to be just as racist, they just miss when the politicians hid it in dogwhistles.
I'll be extremely happy because I really want him to win the nomination. He is the most electable, can bring voters out, and will easily beat Trump in November.
Lots of people don't deny climate change and continue its acceleration. Is that really a standard you feel comfortable with.
Plan for Climate Change and Environmental Justice | Joe Biden
Joe Biden knows climate change is the greatest threat facing our country and our world, and he has a bold plan for a clean energy revolution.
joebiden.com
I just think you going independent is a waste of a vote.
learn from republicans. instead of starting a whole new party they just took their existing party and moved it to the right. slowly. but surely it worked. we can do the same for the democratic party.
what is more important half a win, or losing and being right.
Yep, at the point we're at, if you're not into radical change to get off fossil fuels and address our overconsumption, then you're effectively a climate denier.
Denying climate change isn't simply bringing a snowball into Congress and saying that it's still cold outside. A deniar can also be someone like a Pelosi or Biden or some other fossil fuel lover Dem centrist who scoff at getting off of fossil fuels in the time scientists have said we have left to course correct (less than a decade folks).
Or to describe it differently, this planet has terminal stage III lung cancer and it's tilting towards stage IV, and we're the cause. Biden recognizes that, but he would rather just get you new pillows to sleep on, change your diet slightly, no chemotherapy, and all this while allowing you to continue to chain smoke daily. Except now instead of 10 packs a day it's more like 8 and then over the years, if you're still alive, you'll continue cutting down on the daily intake.
With the stakes so high, we can't afford to continue our 4 decades slow response to climate change. So thus why Joe "fucking love fracking" Biden to me barely ranks above a climate change denier.
lol I'm not american. I am however aghast at how comfortable people seem with a Biden presidency. Your country doesn't have four years to spin its wheels, it needs a new permanently mobilized progressive (anti-corporate) political movement yesterday.Plan for Climate Change and Environmental Justice | Joe Biden
Joe Biden knows climate change is the greatest threat facing our country and our world, and he has a bold plan for a clean energy revolution.
I just think you going independent is a waste of a vote.
learn from republicans. instead of starting a whole new party they just took their existing party and moved it to the right. slowly. but surely it worked. we can do the same for the democratic party.
what is more important half a win, or losing and being right.
That's not happening tho.
the most recent movement similar to what we need, The Tea Party movement, was financed by billionaires and took advantage of idiotic voters.
they won bigly.
We don't have billionaires on our side that know how to spend their money correctly.
y'all are acting like "if we don't completely win then let's just give up".
No.
let's use some fucking strategy and not just hopes and dreams.
I don't think we have power at all. Outside of swing States your vote doesn't count... Or it does count however your state swings even if you don't vote. My State is MA. Regardless of what I do, it's going Dem. We have a president that lost the popular vote in office. The system doesn't work, and I don't see the value of participating in it when my participation is... Well, meaningless.
That being said, Biden is also no good at all. Some people may want to vote for the turd sandwich over the douche, but it's pointless. I'm not giving either of these trash human beings my approval. That's how I see it.
The hot take is a lack of voting is a vote for whoever the person making the fallacy is against. It's nonsense. That's not how voting works. However a vote for someone you may think is the better option that turns out wrong is actually a vote for a lousy person.
I am actually a very humble person. Compassionate as well. I just don't agree with the sentiment I owe anyone else my vote for their sake. I want to vote in someone that will make real, necessary change. But that isn't an option.
If you want to build a snow man Elsa, cool. But no straw men today.
His leg hair turns blonde in the sun, so we better get down there and slick it down and watch it rise up.
i didn't say any of that, but yes if is truly impossible to build a permanently mobilized political coalition around labour, marginalized groups and students then maybe giving up will at least let people enjoy the a few good years before things really getting out of control. I'm not sure how necessary change is going to happen under the status quo in both parties.
Honestly it sounds like you're the one indulging in fatalism by declaring that billionaire cash and idiots are the only way to make things happen
Choosing the safe option with the lowest payout isn't necessarily strategic at all. Especially it it isn't really as safe as the guarantee it is being sold as.
The reason we have Trump in office is the "I'd rather not vote for Hillary" vote - so I'd take anyone who is not the degree of sociopath as what we have now.. So any of them on the dem ticket I'll vote just to get that fuck out of office...
Its sad what the present administration has done to the nation - politics use to be a agree to disagree state but now its divided family and friendships.. SAD!!!!!
Its sad what the present administration has done to the nation - politics use to be a agree to disagree state but now its divided family and friendships.. SAD!!!!!
That strategy Im talking about is more of a, elect better candidates at the local and state levels, while just voting for whoever has a D next to their name for the President.
trump would be useless right now if he didn't have Mcconell, Nunes, Scalise,Ling, Graham etc.
Your humility is palpable :)
As far as voting in a very blue state, every vote that makes the losing candidate win the popular vote and shows what a farce the electoral college isn't wasted in my mind.
Considering Clinton won the popular vote, I think this sort of analysis is lacking in depth. Hell it doesn't even begin to get into the way in which voting rights were being actively curtailed, the disenfranchisement tacitly getting approved by the way the supreme court with the way they overturned the voting rights act for not being broad enough.
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Last election taught me that voting for the best of the worst doesn't even matter if the system is rigged from the start, so I'd just vote third party of withold my vote completely. Tired of electing more of the same shit because Republicans are so awful we have to compromise values to try to keep them out of office.
In the very least this is misattribution by way of simplification.
That's fair. We're starting to get off topic, but I get what you're saying in this instance as the electoral college is absolutely a farce and needs to be done away with.
So your answer is to throw away your vote so they have a chance at winning anyway?
That's real smart. đź‘Ť
Not ok at all
Still will vote for him if needs must
At least A Biden admin will make good podcast content
Still will vote for him if needs must
At least A Biden admin will make good podcast content