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Kickfister

Member
May 9, 2019
1,800
Ok so you mean continuing use. But even in that case, what "alternatives" were there back then?

There weren't any real alternatives to digital download distribution until much more recent years. I remember one, I think it was called DIrect 2 Drive or something like that

but it's not like there were a bunch of alternatives back then. (I'm not talking pirating, I'm not sure if that's what you're talking about)
Games were still available physically, that was the legal alternative. When transitioning to digital, DRM schemes were often more hassle than simply torrenting the game. Digital didn't win out just because fate, it won out because it became customer preference. In the early days, Valve had to compete with piracy more than anything in the digital space, and they "won" by making the service superior to what you get from a torrent. Valve themselves have talked about this, feel free to look it up. It's similar to how Spotify is a net benefit for the music industry in the digital era because it's a service that's superior to just torrenting music. It taps into that market that gives little to no fucks about doing the right thing. My ultimate point of bringing up that bit of history was simply that good features that customers want to use give you user retention. Offering a good revenue split won't bring enough customers, not when a lot of people were a-okay with flat out stealing for ease of use. Unless Epic wants to play the exclusives game forever and bleed money to retain users, they need to get innovative in order to beat Steam. I suppose the alternative is the bulk of the industry simultaneously decides to exclusively release games on the epic store, and epic doesn't have to pay anything. That isn't likely to happen imo, unless there's collusion.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that if games go to Epic only, piracy will become rampant again. They do the bare minimum to make purchasing the game the superior product. But in a world where there's fair competition with Steam and not perpetual exclusives, they gotta step up their game.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
I think a lot of casual users can pick it up for fortnight and end up calling it home since they launch it all the time anyhow. If there's exciting games on the front page and the store is pleasant to browse, that can keep a lot of those users to return and call it home.

That's a lot of people. But the core audience is also a lot of people. And they spent a lot more. I suspect plenty of them will use the epic store, but it will be a minimal portion of their spend due to it being inferior and the resentment around it. This audience will continue to develop resentment.
 

scitek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,083
People are tired of Steam, so just by being its main competition it will retain users by default.
 

Forsaken82

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,927
The answer is quite simple. Keep doing exactly what they are doing while adding features that compare to Steam and improve the regional aspects of their store to be more consumer friendly. They already offer free games like other competitors. They already were offering discounted titles at launch (i.e. Metro). They are showing a drive to have decent sales that compare to some of the best steam sales.

Honestly, the only thing they need to do IMO is improve the options available to acquire a game exclusive to Epic Games store. Maybe that means EGS gift cards purchaseable at amazon or bestbuy (places people can use club discounts and rewards on) and addtional key resellers. Give the consumer options to buy day 1, don't limit them to a single store front. Nothing is stopping them from offering that option while still requiring EGS as the launcher.
 

voOsh

Member
Apr 5, 2018
1,665
If EGS can develop a killer feature that Steam doesn't have, something like 1-click stream to Twitch or Steam Link style streaming but can be done anywhere globally with your owned games running on their servers, they will start to challenge Steam.
 

Ebnas

Member
May 15, 2019
366
Same way Steam did. Get people to build up a modest library within the Epic ecosystem, then keep them coming back with the notion that they 'already have all their stuff here'.

I'm 100% locked into PSN for the very same reason. Got way too much stuff on my account to ever consider messing with Xbox, even if I really wanted to.
 

Uthred

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,567
Same way Steam did. Get people to build up a modest library within the Epic ecosystem, then keep them coming back with the notion that they 'already have all their stuff here'.

I'm 100% locked into PSN for the very same reason. Got way too much stuff on my account to ever consider messing with Xbox, even if I really wanted to.

Exactly this. The same way all the other exclusive storefronts do.
 

Muad'dib

Banned
Jun 7, 2018
1,253
They'll never win me over, I have over 10 years invested in Steam, I tolerate first party launchers, and that's it, I don't care to invest in Tim Sweeney's megalomania fueled ego trip, and will never support exclusives on PC, never bought a single GFWL game until that shit broke down and the games migrated to Steam.

People are tired of Steam, so just by being its main competition it will retain users by default.

What people? Tired how? There are as many Steam users as there are XBL and PSN users.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,381
People are tired of Steam, so just by being its main competition it will retain users by default.

No one is actually tired of steam beyond forum trolls or YouTubers who have made a career out of shitting on steam. It's only of the most popular gaming platforms in the world and continues to grow.
 

Teeth

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,942
If I had to theorize what the plan is, it would be this:
A two pronged approach based on publisher and customer acquisition.

1) Offer the 12% cut to publishers. This is the baseline feature that everything else is built off of. This is the maximal enticement to publishers: high returns and no need for pubs to handle credit cards or distribution infrastructure.
2) Create a demonstrable user base. They theoretically had this with Fortnite, but I imagine publishers looked at it and asked whether those customers would ever buy anything else on the store.
3) Acquire customer base through exclusives. This means that people have demonstrably put money into the store and have, at least minorly, created a 'stickiness' through investment in a library.
4) Supplement customer investment with free games (the Origin method).
5) Train customers to care less about resisting purchasing on the Epic store. Basically, people have inertia investment in other platforms due to libraries. People like familiarity, people like having everything in one place. As soon as a customer has bought something on the EGS, buying the next thing is less of a big deal. Sales help with this.
6) Slow or fast, the EGS will acquire a user base that will demonstrably buy things.
7) Likely, publishers will put stuff on both Steam and EGS until they see enough of a tipping point that putting things on Steam doesn't make any sense, as they make more money per sale on EGS.
8) Publishers stop putting games on Steam to maximize profits through EGS sales.

That's the end game. Epic doesn't need to keep money hatting games once the user base becomes demonstrably large enough. Eventually you'll get people trained enough (or EGS feature rich enough) that they don't care about the differences. The tipping point is on the publishers. So unless Valve lowers their cut even more, EGS will always have that in their back pocket.

But the customer base growth is the active ingredient. It's whether that base grows enough before Epic decides to change course. Which could take a decade or more, who knows.
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,972
Scotland
Dunno, they wanna build a base with exclusives then they'll do what every other store does to compete with another. Whether they are successful or not, who knows? Only thing I know it's they'll have no chance without a significantly better client post exclusives.
 

burnsy

Banned
May 31, 2018
438
I am guessing they want gamers to build libraries up with games in a way to entrench them to their platform. Similar to how a lot of people I know are stuck with their iPhones because all their music/tv/movie/apps are tied to an itunes account.
 

Duxxy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,787
USA
Functional parity with Steam. Pro-consumer pricing and key selling. Regular sales and mega sales.

And have games that people want.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,928
I honestly have no idea. I think their focus on getting exclusives and not an all hand on deck approach to quickly improving the store is very short sighted and has just turned people against the storefront. I think it's all been a huge mistake.
 

Jeb

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Mar 14, 2018
2,155
I assume Epic is internally making its own big games for some permanent exclusives same way Sony and Nintendo do, as well as publishing some third parties.
Over time features will catch up to steam and the kinks would be ironed out and viola, people will use it.
 

Dust

C H A O S
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,347
Everything depends on how deep their pockets are, but when it comes to EGS as an entity I think that's staying.
 

Deleted member 42472

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 21, 2018
729
epic probably see doing something like that a complete waste of time and money. and many here would agree wtih that, cause they don't use them therefore they're pointless features.
I would go so far as to argue that a lot of developers/publishers view a lack of parity to be a good thing


I think everyone wants cloud saves. A lot of folk want better social integration.

User reviews, tagging, and all of the automated generated suggestions? I bet a lot of devs are ecstatic about not having to worry about joke tags or a tasteful nude scene leading to "Kindergarten Waifu Sim: Its Cool, she is actually 8000 years old. For realsies" ads being on their game's store page


Which is one of the things I am somewhat optimistic for with EGS and the other stores rising up (remember Discord's store?): We might cut down some of the bloat and outright bad things Valve implemented over the years
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
User reviews, tagging, and all of the automated generated suggestions? I bet a lot of devs are ecstatic about not having to worry about joke tags or a tasteful nude scene leading to "Kindergarten Waifu Sim: Its Cool, she is actually 8000 years old. For realsies" ads being on their game's store page


Which is one of the things I am somewhat optimistic for with EGS and the other stores rising up (remember Discord's store?): We might cut down some of the bloat and outright bad things Valve implemented over the years

Question: If an Amazon competitor sprung up, but it didn't allow for customer reviews, would you consider it had "cut down some of the bloat" of Amazon itself? Because I would argue that people will miss user reviews over on EGS, and that the issue is not reviews, but reviewers. I suspect Epic will have "trusted user reviews" on their store if it runs for more than 3 or 4 years, just because people will complain about the lack of them after awhile.
 

Deleted member 42472

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 21, 2018
729
Question: If an Amazon competitor sprung up, but it didn't allow for customer reviews, would you consider it had "cut down some of the bloat" of Amazon itself? Because I would argue that people will miss user reviews over on EGS, and that the issue is not reviews, but reviewers. I suspect Epic will have "trusted user reviews" on their store if it runs for more than 3 or 4 years, just because people will complain about the lack of them after awhile.
I think the fact that I rarely read the reviews and instead just run the amazon page through a fakespot says everything. The value of amazon reviews is more to get a feel for "are these people" and not "what do the reviews say?". I don't know of a way to get that without user reviews, but I also am not sure if that is even a valuable metric.

I do think Trusted Reviews/Influencers are "The future" whether we like it or not. And I am not entirely sure if that is even a bad thing. I know that I tend to wait for a Digital Foundry or Giant Bomb or Rock Paper Shotgun take on a game (Depending on the genre) because those outlets tend to touch on topics I care about. User reviews I only look at in aggregate and even then don't "trust".
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
I think the fact that I rarely read the reviews and instead just run the amazon page through a fakespot says everything. The value of amazon reviews is more to get a feel for "are these people" and not "what do the reviews say?". I don't know of a way to get that without user reviews, but I also am not sure if that is even a valuable metric.

I do think Trusted Reviews/Influencers are "The future" whether we like it or not. And I am not entirely sure if that is even a bad thing. I know that I tend to wait for a Digital Foundry or Giant Bomb or Rock Paper Shotgun take on a game (Depending on the genre) because those outlets tend to touch on topics I care about. User reviews I only look at in aggregate and even then don't "trust".

Huh. That's fair enough, and it's a take I've not heard before. Cheers for the reply. :)
 

deadman322

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,396
I would go so far as to argue that a lot of developers/publishers view a lack of parity to be a good thing


I think everyone wants cloud saves. A lot of folk want better social integration.

User reviews, tagging, and all of the automated generated suggestions? I bet a lot of devs are ecstatic about not having to worry about joke tags or a tasteful nude scene leading to "Kindergarten Waifu Sim: Its Cool, she is actually 8000 years old. For realsies" ads being on their game's store page


Which is one of the things I am somewhat optimistic for with EGS and the other stores rising up (remember Discord's store?): We might cut down some of the bloat and outright bad things Valve implemented over the years
other than user reviews what other features do you think are bloat or a bad idea?
 

Deleted member 42472

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 21, 2018
729
other than user reviews what other features do you think are bloat or a bad idea?
For me? Probably a lot of the community and social stuff I think having to basically moderate an entire social media site in addition to store curation is a really big lift. Use Discord or whatever to chat with folk and use Steam or whatever to give companies money

But I also acknowledge a lot of people love that social crap.


Maybe the user reviews really are valuable, maybe they aren't. But the "advantage" of not launching with "parity" is that Epic can try to figure out what is actually valuable and what isn't... or they can just keep pissing off publishers. Both work.
 

Deleted member 15440

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,191
they're obviously making a monopoly play by taking big losses up front. they want to be the only game in town by driving valve out of the market.