I despise "Kay Adams" from The Godfather I & II

[Soapbox Killer]

What actually happened though, is Kay Corleone told her husband that she had an abortion and that she intended to leave him and take their son with her for his safety and his future.

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Which under the context of both films should have had her in a pine box. Betrayal is a capital crime (ask Fredo). She knew since she first showed up at Connie's wedding. C'mon, Johnny Fontane is showing up to sing at wedding for some Olive Oil tycoon from the Lower East Side? (I know I am over simplifying things) She was a Disloyal Fool ass bitch made punk. I take umbrage with her lack of loyalty under the guise of finding enlightenment years after living high off the hog with the spoils of war in Lake Tahoe.

 

[Squarehard]

She's definitely no Karen Hill.

 

[Deleted member 30544]

Of all the mafia wives portrayed in media I think Kay is the most sympathetic since she was actually fooled all the way. There is no hypocrisy in her arc.

There are actually people who use the misogyny card if you hate Skyler White? Really?...

 

[Ridley327]

Which under the context of both films should have had her in a pine box. Betrayal is a capital crime (ask Fredo). She knew since she first showed up at Connie's wedding. C'mon, Johnny Fontane is showing up to sing at wedding for some Olive Oil tycoon from the Lower East Side? (I know I am over simplifying things) She was a Disloyal Fool ass bitch made punk. I take umbrage with her lack of loyalty under the guise of finding enlightenment years after living high off the hog with the spoils of war in Lake Tahoe.

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I mean, it's not like there isn't already a history of women in the Corelone family sticking to their man even with the knowledge of them doing horrible things. This was true of Carmela throughout the first two films and we straight up saw the strain that Sonny was putting on Sandra with his infidelities and his violent behavior while on the job. It's a recurring theme in the entire saga: how far are you willing to go to bat for someone you love when they're capable of such horrifying things?

 

[Blader]

There are actually people who use the misogyny card if you hate Skyler White? Really?...

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There are a lot of people who cheered on Walt for years as he was building a criminal enterprise in cooking and distributing meth, but turned on Skylar and treated her as public enemy number one the second she cheated on him. If you weigh Skylar's infidelity against Walt's crimes, and find the former significantly more egregious and contemptible than the latter, how do you explain that as anything but misogynistic?

 

[JABEE]

I disagree with OP. Kay may have chosen him, but there was an expectation he was trying to get out of it. Kay realizes the mistake she made and does what she can to get out of the situation. Michael is an abusive monster who is coldly willing to do what he can to maintain power.

Michael is murdering everyone in Part II and is showing no real signs of withdrawing. Even Vito wanted a better life for his children. He served as the top dog in a power vacuum present in Italian-American neighborhoods in NYC. He knocked out the horrible monster, Fanucci, and served the role of peacemaker and protector enriching himself along the way.

Michael had no excuse. He continued to get pulled into wars and conflicts that endangered his family. He murdered his own brother. Kay wanted to end the cycle for her children.

As for Breaking Bad, Skylar had no knowledge of Walt's drug empire and I don't remember her finding out about any of it until the end. I don't see how Skylar is morally wrong at all.

You could maybe make the argument Kay knew what she was getting into when she decided to marry a rich, powerful, demonstrably violent crime boss. Though, I don't know how you could watch the Godfather Trilogy and think Kay was anywhere near the top of the list in terms of immoral or villainous characters.

 

[Deleted member 30544]

There are a lot of people who cheered on Walt for years as he was building a criminal enterprise in cooking and distributing meth, but turned on Skylar and treated her as public enemy number one the second she cheated on him. If you weigh Skylar's infidelity against Walt's crimes, and find the former significantly more egregious and contemptible than the latter, how do you explain that as anything but misogynistic?

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For " a lot of people" maybe , personally I didn't like that character since season one, way before the cheating.

I hated Jesse with a passion too for the entire run, It's there any label that I should have because of that?

 

[Poppy]

haha what the hell

 

[SapientWolf]

For " a lot of people" maybe , personally I didn't like that character since season one, way before the cheating.

I hated Jesse with a passion too for the entire run, It's there any label that I should have because of that?

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Bitch?

 

[Deleted member 30544]

Bitch?

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XD

 

[Veelk]

She's a woman trying to take autonomy for herself and her kids against a murderer and drug trafficer.

You'd be insane not to hate her.

 

[LL_Decitrig]

You are taking the side of organized serial killers.

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To be fair, so does the whole film series. This is why I can't watch any of them. I don't care for films or television shows that try to normalize organised thugs.

 

[Joliet Jake]

This is a fucking moronic opinion.

I don't see how anyone can get to the end of The Godfather Part II and feel like it's taking Michael's side.

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By thinking his wife is the villain, obviously.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

To be fair, so does the whole film series. This is why I can't watch any of them. I don't care for films or television shows that try to normalize organised thugs.

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I don't see how anyone can get to the end of The Godfather Part II and feel like it's taking Michael's side.

 

[Noctis]

I don't see how anyone can get to the end of The Godfather Part II and feel like it's taking Michael's side.

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I mean some root for the bad guy nothing wrong with that.. unless someone in this thread equals that to being a bad human being.

 

[Ridley327]

To be fair, so does the whole film series. This is why I can't watch any of them. I don't care for films or television shows that try to normalize organised thugs.

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There isn't anything in the films that even once advocates for their actions or behaviors. These are horrible people that also happen to have lives aside from the crimes they commit, and those crimes have a major impact on how they live them.

 

[Deleted member 30544]

To be fair, so does the whole film series. This is why I can't watch any of them. I don't care for films or television shows that try to normalize organised thugs.

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You see the consequences that that kind of life brings to everyone involved in the mafia, from Vito to Vincent, there is no glory in that kind of life.

 

[LL_Decitrig]

I don't see how anyone can get to the end of The Godfather Part II and feel like it's taking Michael's side.

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Probably lost me long before the end. It would have been over forty years ago if I saw it. The romanticising of thuggery has been somewhat long-lived.

 

[Blader]

For " a lot of people" maybe , personally I didn't like that character since season one, way before the cheating.

I hated Jesse with a passion too for the entire run, It's there any label that I should have because of that?

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Dude all I did was answer your question that yes there are misogynistic reasons why certain people hated Skylar.

Probably lost me long before the end. It would have been over forty years ago if I saw it. The romanticising of thuggery has been somewhat long-lived.

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They're not romanticized though, especially in Part II. The movies show how living this life leaves everyone involved dead or miserable.

 

[GarthLordOfTheSith]

Good lord.

Just like the Skylar haters.

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Proud Skylar hater here! And I will never regret it.

 

[Ridley327]

Probably lost me long before the end. It would have been over forty years ago if I saw it. The romanticising of thuggery has been somewhat long-lived.

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That's more on public misinterpretation than it is on the films themselves. The entire saga ends with Michael holding the corpse of his daughter in his arms, killed as a result of actions he set in motion, and then flashes forward to him dying alone. There is nothing romantic about that at all.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

Of all the mafia wives portrayed in media I think Kay is the most sympathetic since she was actually fooled all the way. There is no hypocrisy in her arc.

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There is absolute hypocrisy in her arc. I'll grant the Micheal was a war hero but there was no marriage and no kids. Mike was basically the Don before they got married. When he came back after Sonny was killed he was already justiying how his father would have people killed since he was an important man. Did she say no and walk away? No. She got her happy ass right in the car and drove off to see Father Carmichael or some other blind eye priest . Who takes a leap of faith with a murderer? There was blood in the water when she dipped he pinky in to swim and she knew it.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

Probably lost me long before the end. It would have been over forty years ago if I saw it. The romanticising of thuggery has been somewhat long-lived.

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'

Wait, you don't even know if you saw The Godfather Part II but felt qualified to make a comment "on the whole film series"?

 

[Bobby]

.

 

[TaleSpun]

Of all the mafia wives portrayed in media I think Kay is the most sympathetic since she was actually fooled all the way. There is no hypocrisy in her arc.

There are actually people who use the misogyny card if you hate Skyler White? Really?...

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Yeah?

 

[Ridley327]

'

Wait, you don't even know if you saw The Godfather Part II but felt qualified to make a comment "on the whole film series"?

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I don't even know how it's possible for anyone to get "wow, they're really letting this criminals get off easy" from the first film, let alone from the soul-crushing, heart-breaking bleakness of the second film. Even for as wholly unnecessary as the third film was, it still answered the question of "can someone really atone for a lifetime of misdeeds" with a resounding "fuck no, and here's karma hitting your ass on the way out."

 

[BlackGoku03]

Hey.
The guy is simply saying he dislikes the CHARACTER. Not that he has a deep despise of women.

Anyways on topic. In the book I can't recall her being annoying. And I haven't seen the movie out of want to see it in 4k and Google play movies seems to be the only place and I only have an LG TV.

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It's been a while since I read it but I don't remember her being annoying in it either.

Please watch it. The first is one of the best examples of how to adapt a novel to the screen.

 

[Deleted member 30544]

There is absolute hypocrisy in her arc. I'll grant the Micheal was a war hero but there was no marriage and no kids. Mike was basically the Don before they got married. When he came back after Sonny was killed he was already justiying how his father would have people killed since he was an important man. Did she say no and walk away? No. She got her happy ass right in the car and drove off to see Father Carmichael or some other blind eye priest . Who takes a leap of faith with a murderer? There was blood in the water when she dipped he pinky in to swim and she knew it.

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Wrong. First we see how Michel goes out of his way to convince Kay he was not like his family, then after Sonny he convinces her that he is going to make the family legitimate. She goes with Michael because she actually loved him. Then Michael lies to her again when he kills his brother in law but you can see in the very last scene how Kay is starting to turn on Michel.

Then on part 2, you can see in the very first set piece (the confirmation party) how first, Kay asks Michael when he is going to deliver on his promise and then you can see in her eyes how she decides to leave him after the shootout, even when she was still in love with him. How is that hipocrisy?

 

[BossAttack]

Do people hate Carmela Soprano too?

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Um, Carmela is a legit terrible person. She's not comparable to Kay.

Wrong. First we see how Michel goes out of his way to convince Kay he was not like his family, then after Sonny he convinces her that he is going to make the family legitimate. She goes with Michael because she actually loved him. Then Michael lies to her again when he kills his brother in law but you can see in the very last scene how Kay is starting to turn on Michel.

Then on part 2, you can see in the very first set piece (the confirmation party) how first, Kay asks Michael when he is going to deliver on his promise and then you can see in her eyes how she decides to leave him after the shootout, even when she was still in love with him. How is that hipocrisy?

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Bingo.

 

[Froyo Love]

There is absolute hypocrisy in her arc. I'll grant the Micheal was a war hero but there was no marriage and no kids. Mike was basically the Don before they got married. When he came back after Sonny was killed he was already justiying how his father would have people killed since he was an important man. Did she say no and walk away? No. She got her happy ass right in the car and drove off to see Father Carmichael or some other blind eye priest . Who takes a leap of faith with a murderer? There was blood in the water when she dipped he pinky in to swim and she knew it.

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She took the word of the man she loved. You're treating this like a business transaction. Kay is more sympathetic because she initially holds on to her belief that Michael is a good man, not less.

Also even if you 100% believe she's a hypocrite, so what? The moment she realizes Michael has a family of criminals, she's committed forever and should never do anything to cross him?

 

[C4lukin]

I love these movies but I fucking hate Kay Adams (Diane Keaton) so much. I mean she knew what she was getting into after she found out about Luca Brasi and she goes and gets an abortion and threatens to take the kids and leave? I think I hate her more than any other character in any great movie.

Damn you Fabrizo, Apollonia was such a better wife!

Help me process my anger with other movie villains you might hate and yes, Kay is the villain of the godfather movies.

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I love these movies but I fucking hate Kay Adams (Diane Keaton) so much. I mean she knew what she was getting into after she found out about Luca Brasi and she goes and gets an abortion and threatens to take the kids and leave? I think I hate her more than any other character in any great movie.

Damn you Fabrizo, Apollonia was such a better wife!

Help me process my anger with other movie villains you might hate and yes, Kay is the villain of the godfather movies.

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She is a foil for Michael. And as much as I love his character, he turns bad halfway through the first film.

And he keeps saying he will make the family straight. But by the end of the first film he becomes a monster, and Kay realizes it.

Just like most films involving bad guys that are the main characters, you route for them, and hope they will get better.

But in that same film where Kay confronts Michael in the most extreme way possible, Michael has his last remaining brother murdered on a boat.

If anything Kay is the consistent good guy throughout those films. She did not have an abortion without cause, and Michael was already a horrific dude.

It is frustrating because you want Michael to turn things around. You want him to be the good guy.

But it takes until the third film for him to semi redeem his crimes, but his previous villiany comes back to haunt him.

 

[Deleted member 1476]

It's why they wrote Winona out of Justified

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Best thing ever.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

Wrong. First we see how Michel goes out of his way to convince Kay he was not like his family, then after Sonny he convinces her that he is going to make the family legitimate. She goes with Michael because she actually loved him. Then Michael lies to her again when he kills his brother in law but you can see in the very last scene how Kay is starting to turn on Michel.

Then on part 2, you can see in the very first set piece (the confirmation party) how first, Kay asks Michael when he is going to deliver on his promise and then you can see in her eyes how she decides to leave him after the shootout, even when she was still in love with him. How is that hipocrisy?

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So she was down for bribes and drugs and murder for 5 years but 7 years is too much? Chicken come home to roost and a few bullets wiz by her ass and now its time to kill the marriage? If such is the case then she was never really down with the family in the first place. Crime is ok back east but once it hits home now its too real? That's such bunk. Love is awesome but she was not some starry eyed waif clueless to the family business.

"You're not until you are and you are until you're not" . She knew he was still dirty and he admits to at least trying to clean up the family and he was well on the way to doing so if the Cuban revolution didn't break out. Plus having to deal with Fredo, heavy lies the crown...

 

[adamsappel]

It does not sound like OP hates the actual mobsters and killers, just the woman who married one.

I find it hard to like characters like Michael, Walter White, Tony Soprano, etc. I could never really admire Boyd Crowder on Justified because of the one guy he killed in the pilot, when he was supposed to be a one-off character. My wife and I were watching The Sopranos and she said she really liked Tony. I said, "Why? He's a mobster, he kills people." She said, "Well, he hasn't killed anyone recently." About 30 seconds after that, Tony was choking out the snitch he saw on Meadow's college tour. I just laughed.

Hey, it's Bobby Roberts!

 

[StuBurns]

There are a lot of people who cheered on Walt for years as he was building a criminal enterprise in cooking and distributing meth, but turned on Skylar and treated her as public enemy number one the second she cheated on him. If you weigh Skylar's infidelity against Walt's crimes, and find the former significantly more egregious and contemptible than the latter, how do you explain that as anything but misogynistic?

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I guess it's a question of at which point we're talking, but if you asked me which is worse, producing drugs, or cheating on a spouse, it's cheating, by no small margin. Walt hasn't murdered anyone by the time Skyler cheats, and she's already broken several laws herself by cooking the books for Ted's company.

I don't see why thinking cheating is very bad is misogynistic, men and women cheat. In fact, more traditionally, we tend to see men cheat in media. When Skyler cheats, the same with Camilla, it is an emotional drive too, when Tony cheats it's because he is a piece of shit that can't keep his cock in his pants.

 

[Deleted member 30544]

So she was down for bribes and drugs and murder for 5 years but 7 years is too much? Chicken come home to roost and a few bullets wiz by her ass and now its time to kill the marriage? If such is the case then she was never really down with the family in the first place. Crime is ok back east but once it hits home now its too real? That's such bunk. Love is awesome but she was not some starry eyed waif clueless to the family business.

"You're not until you are and you are until you're not" . She knew he was still dirty and he admits to at least trying to clean up the family and he was well on the way to doing so if the Cuban revolution didn't break out. Plus having to deal with Fredo, heavy lies the crown...

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LMAO it's like you didn't saw the movies or never bothered to pay attention xD

 

[Deleted member 907]

OP should read the book.

 

[C4lukin]

So she was down for bribes and drugs and murder for 5 years but 7 years is too much? Chicken come home to roost and a few bullets wiz by her ass and now its time to kill the marriage? If such is the case then she was never really down with the family in the first place. Crime is ok back east but once it hits home now its too real? That's such bunk. Love is awesome but she was not some starry eyed waif clueless to the family business.

"You're not until you are and you are until you're not" . She knew he was still dirty and he admits to at least trying to clean up the family and he was well on the way to doing so if the Cuban revolution didn't break out. Plus having to deal with Fredo, heavy lies the crown...

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Michael revealed the family business during the wedding scene in the first film to Kay.

He said that was not him. He was different. She seemed fine with that.

Lots of shit happens in those films, and Kay as far as I can remember is never complicit in it.

She is locked out behind the closing door. At the end of the first film, and never becomes a part of the family business.

Admirably she had an idea of what was going on, but until the assassination attempt at the beginning of the second film she probably did not realize the extent of it. That is when she turns.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

She took the word of the man she loved. You're treating this like a business transaction. Kay is more sympathetic because she initially holds on to her belief that Michael is a good man, not less.

Also even if you 100% believe she's a hypocrite, so what? The moment she realizes Michael has a family of criminals, she's committed forever and should never do anything to cross him?

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Fair point however I will say that my irrational hate for her is more about how constantly naive she is throughout the saga. At no point was she willing to be grounded in the reality of the moment.

Michael willingly or not ran game on Kay from the jump and she was constantly falling for it and as I watch these films more over the years it seems to me that she was unwilling to see the obvious.

Lets reflect for a tic.

The story about the band leader should have been the first red flag but I'll let that slide cause new love is the best love.

Vito Corleone shot and it make the front page of the papers but that's the father not the son ok

Mike is gone for years...shows up say its ok to kill folks if you have power, she disagrees but says "what the hell, lets see where this goes"


Michael: I'm working for my father now Kay, he's been sick, very sick"

Kay Adams: " but you're not like him Micheal I thought you weren't going to become a man like your father thats what you told me"

Michael: My father is no different than any powerful man, any man with power, like a president or senator.

Kay Adams: Do you know how naive you sound, Michael? Presidents and senators don't have men killed.

Michael: Oh. Who's being naive, Kay?


She knew long before they were married she just didn't want yo see it.

 

[Deleted member 4321]

Do people hate Carmela Soprano too?

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I remember her getting the same shit as Skylar.

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I don't really see many parallels between Carmela Soprano and Kay or Skylar. Carmela knew who Tony was from the beginning. She knew that he would have goomars. She knew he was involved in killing people. She chose to stay through it all.

There are a lot of people who cheered on Walt for years as he was building a criminal enterprise in cooking and distributing meth, but turned on Skylar and treated her as public enemy number one the second she cheated on him. If you weigh Skylar's infidelity against Walt's crimes, and find the former significantly more egregious and contemptible than the latter, how do you explain that as anything but misogynistic?

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Does it even count as infidelity if you're separated and/or in the process of getting a divorce? The marriage was done at that point.

 

[gcwy]

Good lord.

Just like the Skylar haters.

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Not the same at all.

 

[Deleted member 30544]

Fair point however I will say that my irrational hate for her is more about how constantly naive she is throughout the saga. At no point was she willing to be grounded in the reality of the moment.

Michael willingly or not ran game on Kay from the jump and she was constantly falling for it and as I watch these films more over the years it seems to me that she was unwilling to see the obvious.

Lets reflect for a tic.

The story about the band leader should have been the first red flag but I'll let that slide cause new love is the best love.

Vito Corleone shot and it make the front page of the papers but that's the father not the son ok

Mike is gone for years...shows up say its ok to kill folks if you have power, she disagrees but says "what the hell, lets see where this goes"


Michael: I'm working for my father now Kay, he's been sick, very sick"

Kay Adams: " but you're not like him Micheal I thought you weren't going to become a man like your father thats what you told me"

Michael: My father is no different than any powerful man, any man with power, like a president or senator.

Kay Adams: Do you know how naive you sound, Michael? Presidents and senators don't have men killed.

Michael: Oh. Who's being naive, Kay?

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Don't leave out the rest of the dialogue in that scene, that's important too, it's actually the most important because it's when he convinces her.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

Don't leave out the rest of the dialogue in that scene, that's important too, it's actually the most important because it's when he convinces her.

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Ok I'll give. Remember I'm trying not to hate her as much as I have been so I won't be so stern but it seemed plainly obvious to me that she was married in the weeds and knew.


CAN I STILL HATE PRESIDENT CHARLES LOGAN?

 

[StuBurns]

Carmela knew, for sure. It's something that she struggles with their entire relationship. However, it's fair to say she didn't know Tony was going to end up the boss of North Jersey. No one did. Dating a man you know to be a scum bag is a little different to dating a career criminal. She could have walked away, and should have, certainly, but that relationship was established before he was in the Mafia. The same way dating someone who sells weed isn't the same as dating Walter White. She was also young too. We only meet them as adults, but Carmela grew up surrounded by that shit. It is going to warp a young mind, and she is haunted by it as an adult.

She eventually makes a deal with Tony that he can cheat as long as she doesn't hear about it and he gives her half a million to build a house or something. That scene linked above is the point just before she fully embraces her situation. She's pot committed, and decides that the upheaval to correct her life is too great. She'd rather live with her internal struggle for the rest of her life than than deal with fully breaking away from her lifestyle. It's the 'wrong' decision, but they do a masterful job of justifying how she lands on it. It was beautiful.

The Sopranos could have continued with Carmela as the lead, and I'd have been all for it.

 

[appaws]

wuuuuuuut

I was about to make a post about how Skylar hate was entirely unfounded because she had no idea what her husband had been up to. Walt went off and became a drug kingpin without her knowledge. She was thrust into an impossible situation and did what she had to do to keep her head above water.

Kay Adams knew the deal and chose the life anyway. She gets far less sympathy.

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She laundered money. She sent thugs to intimidate Ted into paying the IRS, resulting in a terrible injury. She actively promoted, and even wrote the script, for the counting cards cover story.

Kay was just naive. Skylar was a fellow criminal.

 

[Deleted member 30544]

Ok I'll give. Remember I'm trying not to hate her as much as I have been so I won't be so stern but it seemed plainly obvious to me that she was married in the weeds and knew.


CAN I STILL HATE PRESIDENT CHARLES LOGAN?

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The important question is, do you hate president Allison Taylor? ;)

Funny you mentioned Charles Logan, his wife has a very similar arc as Kay.

 

[uncelestial]

Why is it supposed to be a bad opinion that you don't like a character who roadblocks the anti-hero/crimelord protagonist?

Nobody watches those shows because they want to morally agree with everything they're seeing onscreen. It's not real life. They are killjoys. Sorry not sorry.

Is everyone just sitting there hate-watching The Sopranos, Godfather, Goodfellas, and Breaking Bad until someone shits in the protagonist's face? Are y'all crying out "he can't keep getting away with it" like Jesse everytime one of these guys scores a hit? Aren't 90% of their victims other criminals who would gladly kill them, in the show?

 

[C4lukin]

I don't really see many parallels between Carmela Soprano and Kay or Skylar. Carmela knew who Tony was from the beginning. She knew that he would have goomars. She knew he was involved in killing people. She chose to stay through it all.



Does it even count as infidelity if you're separated and/or in the process of getting a divorce? The marriage was done at that point.

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Carmella was completely complicit in Tony's gangster activities.

I love Carmela as a character, but she was the opposite of Kay when it comes down to it.

Kay knew what Michael was doing to a point, but he promised to change, and she hoped he would.

Carmela was essentially another cog in Tonys empire. Hell when she almost cheated on him, it was with an Italian Assassin. She was a complacent gangsters wife, who was more pissed about his extra marital affairs then his business dealings.

 

[gutter_trash]

no OP, Michael told her at the begining "That's my family, Kay not me"

 

[StuBurns]

Why is it supposed to be a bad opinion that you don't like a character who roadblocks the anti-hero/crimelord protagonist? It's not real life.

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It's a funny situation because anti-heroes need to lose at the end, but they need to go out in a way that plays to the fact we've taken this voyeuristic pleasure in watching them.

In terms of catharsis, it should be their biggest victim that's responsible for their downfall, which in the case of The Godfather, The Sopranos and Breaking Bad, is all their families.

During the phone call where Walt 'performs' for the FBI when talking to Skyler, he frees her of her crimes as an apology 'or evening out' of her crimes. He decides to absolve her, and that plus how her life is still shitty feels like more than enough punishment for her (ultimately far smaller) crimes.