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SpotAnime

Member
Dec 11, 2017
2,072
Options are good for me. If I want to test drive a game or a movie, subs are perfect for me. If I like it enough, I'll buy. For example, I'm able to play Blazing Chrome and although I'm loving it I can't get past the first level. It maybe something I never buy but can still enjoy. Perhaps if I get good enough at it and like it I can pick up on a sale. That's a win win for me.

The only losing situation is when I like something in a sub but it leaves the service and I can't buy because it's out of print. That's happened to me with a few movies and I either have to buy digitally or pay a premium for a physical copy. But I've since learned if I like something enough, I just budget to buy it and keep permanently.
 

Sec0nd

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,073
Subscription services make media ethereal and disposable. They lose value as art and lose mental permanence, you think less of them because they are from a subscription.

One big reason why no one should use these services.

I have a subscription to the local cinema which allows me go to every film to show for a fixed price. Do the films I see lose value as art and lose mental permanence because I don't pay for them individually?
 

Jiraiya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,306
Subscription services make media ethereal and disposable. They lose value as art and lose mental permanence, you think less of them because they are from a subscription.

One big reason why no one should use these services.

This is really true for some folk? I couldn't imagine letting the way I get my media affect the way I value it. Wow
 

Vj27

Member
Feb 10, 2019
554
This is really true for some folk? I couldn't imagine letting the way I get my media affect the way I value it. Wow
No gamers just like to whine about shit. Can save them money and they'll still find a way to bitch about it. They all conveniently forgot that with the rise of subs (I swear to god if someone reply's with "Da FILm inDUStRy IS Not dA sAmE aS dA gAMMinG iNDusTRy... and neither is the music Industry, book industry, etc. THey DoNTt CoUNt bECaUsE I'm SMart an I SaiD so") in every industry means there's MORE, say it with me now, MORE not less, emphasis on content.

Did Netflix start making shitty shows because hbo and Disney and Hulu exist?? Fuck no, you think Hulu sat there while netflix dominates with there original content, Hell no, they start making shit like (think this was already there but you get what I mean) community and others, you have amazon with hand maidens tale and that new super hero show coming up. Disney is said to be putting movie budgets for there tv shows, fucking movie budgets. An all I hear is gamers claiming this we devalue there content like... how in the hell did you come up with that conclusion??

Guess what, if every pub does decide to have a sub service than you think they'll all exist willy nilly to each other and never have to battle for consumer interest, LMAO. There not going to be like ayo gamer sub to my service because we make shitty games and you should want to, that's not how that works, they won't be battling with sub prices, they won't be battling saying my net codes better, it'll be about the GAMES. POINT BLANK PERIOD. Goddamn, I'm losing brain cells listen to some of y'all doom theory's, I'm not a business major but I study digital media so I know a bit on the ethics of fighting for consumer interest, and I can tell
You now, you'd WANT these pubs to all come out with a sub service because then as consumers we get to decided which ones are good and bad, we get to dictate what content we want to see by our wallets.

Also as a bonus food for thought, this might be there only way to kill MTX's. Whenever (because this will happen) activision drops there service they'll be competing with games from gamepass and ea access, now with gamepass being a thing MS is dropping MTX's and dlc all together in favor for subs, gears 5, halo 5, SoT, State of decay somewhat as well, COD might have people excited to get a sub service but the magical thing about subs vs cable packages is you get to CHOOSE who to sub to, if your getting the new halo infinite with no dlc and such vs cod having to pay for every map pack on top of paying a sub, bet your ass the gamepass sub base will be much much higher than activisions. They'd rather have your guaranteed sub every month, on top of the $60 purchases others like OP will do. Because I'll tell you know now, there will never be a time when devs stop making great quality content to attract an audience, thinking otherwise is just straight up idiotic.
 
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Jmdajr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,535
Game Pass is a subscription I like. Playing more games now than I have in a long time. Not just more....but a bigger variety. Games I would have never thought other wise.

If I get tired of it at least my sub ends.....june 2022.

As for owning them. Don't care. My shelves are filled with games I own and don't play. It's all decoration
 

Ox Code

Member
Jul 21, 2018
376
Subscription services make media ethereal and disposable. They lose value as art and lose mental permanence, you think less of them because they are from a subscription.

One big reason why no one should use these services.

Even if this is true - and any insight into how much companies pay for TV streaming rights easily proves it isn't - there is no form of media (except newspapers I suppose) that is more ethereal and of the moment than gaming. Most games from 10 years ago aren't even playable on current gaming systems except a PC, whereas the book, music, TV and movie industries make a ton of their money from their back catalog.
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
Even if this is true - and any insight into how much companies pay for TV streaming rights easily proves it isn't - there is no form of media (except newspapers I suppose) that is more ethereal and of the moment than gaming. Most games from 10 years ago aren't even playable on current gaming systems except a PC, whereas the book, music, TV and movie industries make a ton of their money from their back catalog.
And that's a problem too. Before streaming (and digital downloads to a degree) thinking of games (and things like music and books) as one off disposable products rather than art to be held onto and preserved was outside of the norm.

There were always people who would sell a record or a game as soon as they finished it, but that wasn't the standard. Streaming makes it the standard. It conditions people to think of media as intangible and unimportant. A game could be available one day and gone the next and subscribers are taught not to care.

It doesn't help that streaming fundamentally changes the way artists make their art. It's a disgusting way for publishers of media to wring as much money as possible out of the artist and the consumer.
 

m23

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,424
Game Pass is a subscription I like. Playing more games now than I have in a long time. Not just more....but a bigger variety. Games I would have never thought other wise.

If I get tired of it at least my sub ends.....june 2022.

As for owning them. Don't care. My shelves are filled with games I own and don't play. It's all decoration

This is me 100%. I used to care about owning physical copies of games, but I really don't care anymore. The cost savings and convenience just completely trumps everything for me. Same for Spotify with music and same for Netflix/Amazon with movies/shows.
 

Pillock

User Requested Ban
Banned
Dec 29, 2017
1,341
And that's a problem too. Before streaming (and digital downloads to a degree) thinking of games (and things like music and books) as one off disposable products rather than art to be held onto and preserved was outside of the norm.

There were always people who would sell a record or a game as soon as they finished it, but that wasn't the standard. Streaming makes it the standard. It conditions people to think of media as intangible and unimportant. A game could be available one day and gone the next and subscribers are taught not to care.

It doesn't help that streaming fundamentally changes the way artists make their art. It's a disgusting way for publishers of media to wring as much money as possible out of the artist and the consumer.
99% of the games I have bought over the last 30 maybe as well have been disposable as I only played them once. Looking back I see that as enormous waste of money and if subscriptions had been a thing when I was just getting into gaming to would have saved me a fortune.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
Subscription services make media ethereal and disposable. They lose value as art and lose mental permanence, you think less of them because they are from a subscription.

One big reason why no one should use these services.
I love this arrogance. Why "nobody" should use this service. Get over yourself pal. You go ahead and look at your collection on the shelf and don't worry about how Ior anyone else wants to consume their entertianment.
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,579
Texas
No I'm just reading the market.
Amazon, Netflix and Spotify are already doing this. If you think this will not be the case with gaming, good for you. I'm not that optimistic.
Okay, and through Netflix and Amazon we have gotten many great TV shows like Stranger Things, Bosch, La Casa De Papel, Dark, Man in the High Castle, the Daredevil/Punisher, among many others. TV shows aren't dead because of it... Far from it. We are in a golden age of content right now. As to Spotify, many credit it and services like it with bolstering a flagging industry. I can listen to all sorts of obscure death metal and weird experimental post hardcore prog wankery that I never would have discovered at an FYE or Best Buy. I go on to buy concert tickets and merch from those artists.

Who is to say that the same won't happen with GamePass? It could very well lead to new and inventive experiences being made for an audience with a higher tolerance for experimental projects. It could very well result in the biggest glut of new gaming content we have ever seen, similar to what is happening in the TV space. In my experience so far, GamePass has led to me trying tons of games that I never would have bought, and has led to me buying DLC from several (Guacamelee 2 among them). I'm not saying that it can't go the other way, but to take it as a foregone conclusion that the worst case must happen simply because it could happen is premature.
 

Raider34

Banned
May 8, 2018
1,277
United States
I love game pass I just hope the option to buy remains how it is i would hate for a day to come where we need 5 different subscriptions to chase down all the 3rd party games we love.
 

Joe White

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,054
Finland
You go ahead and look at your collection on the shelf and don't worry about how Ior anyone else wants to consume their entertianment.

It almost sounds like that the root issue on subscriptions and/or streaming is that those collections will become less valuable/irrelevant. More ppl having access to same entertainment and more without expensive physical hardware and/or media is not a bad thing.
 

Hilbert

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,987
Pacific Northwest!
People think subscriptions will make publishers rush games and add mtx. To support this they point to trends happening now on non-subscripion games. It's already happening! Let's try something else and see what it does at least.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,261
I'm a gamer so every development that diminishes my gaming experience worries me.

But... it's not diminishing your gaming experience? Sure, you're worried that in the far flung future it might maybe affect the games that you like, but currently, the only thing it's affecting is your perceived value of the games you buy, not your gaming experience.

You said you don't even replay your games for the most part, I don't see what you're scared of... that you'll like it?
 

Deleted member 896

User Requested Account Deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,353
There were always people who would sell a record or a game as soon as they finished it, but that wasn't the standard. Streaming makes it the standard. It conditions people to think of media as intangible and unimportant. A game could be available one day and gone the next and subscribers are taught not to care.

How are we defining what's standard here? Part of the fight going into this generation was in relation to MS's attempts to sell console games like PC games where they would basically just be tied to an account preventing resale and lending. In the days of yesteryear GameStop was a major player in the industry and a lot of their revenue was selling used games. Giant rental places like Blockbuster existed and people proceeded to rent games from there. Services like GameFly still exist. Redbox rents games. Friends would lend their friends games they owned.

Even without subs plenty of people at enthusiast places like this get excited for sales and buy stuff even though they already have a backlog. I myself am one of them. Is this treating the media like art because I respect it by owning it even if I never actually get around to playing it?

It doesn't help that streaming fundamentally changes the way artists make their art.

This really requires more elaboration in terms of explaining both how it fundamentally changes how art is produced while also establishing why that is inherently bad even if it's true.
 

I KILL PXLS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,581
It almost sounds like that the root issue on subscriptions and/or streaming is that those collections will become less valuable/irrelevant. More ppl having access to same entertainment and more without expensive physical hardware and/or media is not a bad thing.
This is really my only takeaway from the OP's argument about resale value.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
My point still stands, MTX changed how games are designed and subscriptions and streaming services will change how games are designed too.
One thing having an effect on something does not mean something else will. Movies and Tv shows havent fundamentally changed due to streaming and neither will video games. Its just an option, there is no slippery slope here.

I'm a gamer so every development that diminishes my gaming experience worries me.



No I'm just reading the market.
Amazon, Netflix and Spotify are already doing this. If you think this will not be the case with gaming, good for you. I'm not that optimistic.
Gamepass threads are the greatest source of humor. What in the world?
 

The_R3medy

Member
Jan 22, 2018
2,857
Wisconsin
Okay, games aren't just released via these channels. No one is making you buy them. I've found Gamepass to be a big value, especially with games like Forza Horizon 4 being on there and Gears 5 this fall.

It's nice because right now, everybody wins with this system.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
People who say "you can just buy the game" don't see the great picture. You are not getting the same value as before. This is simple economics. If there is a way to get something at a cheaper price the value of said object will loose value. It's simple as that.

Games will surely be Service exclusive at some point in the future. We already have that with Netflix.
Gaming will change im the upcoming years and more and more games will be released in a short period of time resulting in crunch, probably bad reviews and noone willing to take risks.

If you don't see that, that's nice. I'm just more catious.
What? Just...what?

My value for a game has nothing to do with economics. And if were using value strictly in terms of economics, how is this losing value to the consumer as opposed to increasing it given theyre paying less money for their games?

Games will surely be Service exclusive at some point in the future. We already have that with Netflix.
Poor assumption. MS is nothing like netflix and unlike netflix, MS was already making its own content prior to their subscription service.

Gaming will change im the upcoming years and more and more games will be released in a short period of time resulting in crunch, probably bad reviews and noone willing to take risks.

Why would a subscription service be the leading cause to this? Youre just throwing out a bunch of conspiracy theory conjecture and treating it like a fact without really even any explanation as to why you think this is the way its going to be.
 

Toybasher

Member
Nov 21, 2017
820
Do you think people come into your house and smash up your back ups when you get banned or when a service gets shut down?

Oh yeah I forgot Konami came around and smashed up every PS4 with a copy of PT on it, plus all the external hard drives with PT backed up on them

Which single player game has been lost forever because a publisher hit a killswitch and this removed the games from the library of everyone who paid for it, and somehow managed to remove all back ups too?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkspore Darkspore sort of counts. DRM servers had the plug-pulled making it completely unplayable.
 

cnorwood

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,345
They still sell physical media in stores, you can still buy physical media online, you can buy digital items you can download. Dont worry, the few of you who will want plastic boxes and discs will still have them. And with too many streaming services, piracy will come back in full effect imo
 

Fuhgeddit

#TeamThierry
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,740
My biggest concern with this is that I just don't have the time and become flustered and then worry that I won't be able to finish on time.
 

12Danny123

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,722
They still sell physical media in stores, you can still buy physical media online, you can buy digital items you can download. Dont worry, the few of you who will want plastic boxes and discs will still have them. And with too many streaming services, piracy will come back in full effect imo

You can't pirate a streamed game.
 

Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,084
Melbourne, Australia
I'm not the biggest fan of digital services like this either, but...
But i don't want to spend 60-70 bucks every month for every different publisher that decides to offer a service.
You wouldn't need to do this. These are monthly subs. You could subscribe to one service in May, and then a completely different service in June when another exclusive game drops that you're interested in. Having them all active at the same time would be silly.

That's what I do with tv/movie streaming services.
 
OP
OP
plow

plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,655
I'm not the biggest fan of digital services like this either, but...

You wouldn't need to do this. These are monthly subs. You could subscribe to one service in May, and then a completely different service in June when another exclusive game drops that you're interested in. Having them all active at the same time would be silly.

That's what I do with tv/movie streaming services.

True if there wasn't MP Games that i would play. Let's say FIFA and Battlefront which already makes it 2.

To top that off, often these Services offer huge discounts when you subscribe for Months in advance.
 

Jack Bauer

Banned
Jun 14, 2019
860
They still sell physical media in stores, you can still buy physical media online, you can buy digital items you can download. Dont worry, the few of you who will want plastic boxes and discs will still have them. And with too many streaming services, piracy will come back in full effect imo

I use physical media purely out of necessity. I live in an area where DSL is the only internet available. I get 3 Mbps download speeds on a good day but it's usually much slower than that.

I really don't want discs going away anytime soon.
 
Nov 8, 2017
3,532
I'll never pay for subscriptions. If that becomes the only option for games, I'll sooner just stop playing games. Same as I've never had a subscription to Netflix (or similar) and I never will.
 

The Traveller

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,031
I've been able to discover new games I otherwise wouldn't have bought.

I agree that there may be too many subscriptions, but at the same time there are too many games and you can't buy them all. At least if there's a game you want to play on a different service you can subscribe for a month, and if you want to buy it you can.

Gamepass for me has been really good, I'm curious to see how Sony and Nintendo will approach this. Hopefully they won't take the blockbuster path.
 

cnorwood

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,345
You can't pirate a streamed game.
Well if you read my post you would see how I say they still sell physical media and downloadable media. It's not all going to be streaming like it's not today
I use physical media purely out of necessity. I live in an area where DSL is the only internet available. I get 3 Mbps download speeds on a good day but it's usually much slower than that.

I really don't want discs going away anytime soon.
They wont, its not going to be streaming or nothing the same way it isn't now