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I don't want forced/default PC crossplay in my games devs. Please stop it.
- Thread starter TheRulingRing
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I'm not ignoring anything. You specifically asked "what is the benefit" and I specifically answered that question. If you are now asking a different question, "why isn't it opt-in" I will gladly answer that. It's because as the new standard it has to be tried out so that people experience it firsthand and give it a fair chance.
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I'm reffering to PC as OP mentioned casual players can game on PC and may just leave settings as they are.
Sadly the game industry doesnt work on a case by case basis and tends to only analyse the louder voices
So any push against crossplay, even if JUST for shooter game x because of a real threat of cheating there, will only end up in crossplay in every game for every genre losing support. And since crossplay for every other game and genre not being a competitive shooter is always a positive, then sorry OP, suck it up for the greater good. Just like you're selfishly advocating for opt-in crossplay cause you're getting trounced on a shooter, i will selfishly advocate for forced crossplay in the cooperative games i play where people using controllers, mouses, keyboards, arcade sticks or a banana doesnt change anything and there are literally zero negatives to crossplay other than fanatical console warriors not wanting to play with anyone who didnt buy the same console as them
So any push against crossplay, even if JUST for shooter game x because of a real threat of cheating there, will only end up in crossplay in every game for every genre losing support. And since crossplay for every other game and genre not being a competitive shooter is always a positive, then sorry OP, suck it up for the greater good. Just like you're selfishly advocating for opt-in crossplay cause you're getting trounced on a shooter, i will selfishly advocate for forced crossplay in the cooperative games i play where people using controllers, mouses, keyboards, arcade sticks or a banana doesnt change anything and there are literally zero negatives to crossplay other than fanatical console warriors not wanting to play with anyone who didnt buy the same console as them
Apex is console crossplay default and PC opt-in, I expect BF6 to be the same and there are quite a few other cases of this type. Even with opt-out cases like COD it tends to work differently from other op-out games.
Apex Legends cross-platform release date, how to add friends and cross-platform lobbies explained
How cross-platform works in Apex Legends, including how to add friends on different platforms, and how cross-platform lobbies explained.
www.eurogamer.net
This is not true, PC is the smallest platform and this is verifiable if you want.
Good controller players + aim assist on Fortnite and COD are the only ones making money in events, and some of these younger dudes are stuck on standard PS4's and they're melting people. Aim assist has been PC gamer's biggest complaint, and most of these competitive communities mark controllers as a form of cheating, so idk man.
Console players use mice, too. Defeating the purpose of crossplay and killing the community for a huge chunk of players isn't going to let you escape from people using keyboards and mice.
Some of y'all act like it's a completely foreign concept to have like friends that don't play the same platform as you.
They aren't doing this shit for playerbases, they are doing this shit because people want to play with their friends that are on like 4 different platforms these days, and typically are getting more and more heavily invested in those platforms, especially as MP games go from the new one of the year to games they play for like half a decade. And it's gonna get worse as cloud platforms take off. Take a look at something like Among Us, that took off because literally everyone can play that with their friends relatively painlessly.
Stop viewing it from the perspective of "well, there are plenty of casual players on console already" like the only endgame is more people in your solo queue. Those casual players in your base want to play with their friends with as little barriers as possible as well. If you are so worried about competitive advantages, you should be the one that opts into the more dedicated and hardcore playerbase, while the big crowd gets the PC and phone, and cloud players.
They aren't doing this shit for playerbases, they are doing this shit because people want to play with their friends that are on like 4 different platforms these days, and typically are getting more and more heavily invested in those platforms, especially as MP games go from the new one of the year to games they play for like half a decade. And it's gonna get worse as cloud platforms take off. Take a look at something like Among Us, that took off because literally everyone can play that with their friends relatively painlessly.
Stop viewing it from the perspective of "well, there are plenty of casual players on console already" like the only endgame is more people in your solo queue. Those casual players in your base want to play with their friends with as little barriers as possible as well. If you are so worried about competitive advantages, you should be the one that opts into the more dedicated and hardcore playerbase, while the big crowd gets the PC and phone, and cloud players.
Well I dunno if it would be 90%. That's the number you gave. I'm going off that.
He isn't saying crossplay with pc shouldn't be possible. He says it's shouldn't be forced.
I would like to know how many ppl who defending FORCED crossplay are pc only. Because normally pc ppl are all about choice.
dont know about 1 and 5 but 3 had a site where you were able to see player base and PC was on top. BF4 was the same afaik.Apex is console crossplay default and PC opt-in, I expect BF6 to be the same and there are quite a few other cases of this type. Even with opt-out cases like COD it tends to work differently from other op-out games.
Apex Legends cross-platform release date, how to add friends and cross-platform lobbies explained
How cross-platform works in Apex Legends, including how to add friends on different platforms, and how cross-platform lobbies explained.
This is not true, PC is the smallest platform and this is verifiable if you want.
that said I was say<ing that it has a big player base not the biggest. On PC it always has players since PBF has it roots on PC and PC always was lead pklatform except for the Bad Company games.
I'd rather have opt out than opt in to be honest.
Opt in usually results in many people skipping over the option or not caring to look for it, and it's gonna hurt the overall player population in the process. MP thrives on a player population, and default forced crossplay ensures a healthy population above all.
Opt in usually results in many people skipping over the option or not caring to look for it, and it's gonna hurt the overall player population in the process. MP thrives on a player population, and default forced crossplay ensures a healthy population above all.
Yea hopefully BF6 has that option.
Warzone doesn't even let you opt out of cross play on Xbox (only PS) and I'm thinking of making a thread on it. The amount of cheaters especially on PC has gone sky high and Activision does not give a fuck. Even shit like the stim glitch isn't fixed.
I don't agree with this opinion.
crossplay should be a standard BUT matchmaking should be based on input. Let console users use a mouse and keyboard but if they are, match them with mouse and keyboard only. Let PC players use controller and only match them with controller. Then whenever a controller user wants to play with a mouse and keyboard user let them opt in for open crossplay.
As it stands on COD most people I see on matchmaking that use controller still do insanely well against mouse and keyboard users. A mouse is definitely an advantage but that's only if you're good. There are also controller gods that exist that put mouse and keyboard users to shame.
crossplay should be a standard BUT matchmaking should be based on input. Let console users use a mouse and keyboard but if they are, match them with mouse and keyboard only. Let PC players use controller and only match them with controller. Then whenever a controller user wants to play with a mouse and keyboard user let them opt in for open crossplay.
As it stands on COD most people I see on matchmaking that use controller still do insanely well against mouse and keyboard users. A mouse is definitely an advantage but that's only if you're good. There are also controller gods that exist that put mouse and keyboard users to shame.
Yeah, I'm specifically talking about aim-assist. In general, a mouse is definitely way easier but in games like Warzone where aim-assist does all the work for you, you are at a disadvantage using KB/M.
BFV never had population in the api, but for 1, 3, and 4, Playstation was the highest platform followed by Xbox then PC. You are referring to Tracknetwork and Pstats, unfortunately the latter was shut down.
Especially as a server browser game, it would make much more sense to go the Apex route. As someone who plays on Playstation without aim assist for BF, buffing that system to compensate for PC crossplay is not desirable.
Agreed, I don't like being forced. If there's no opt-out in destiny, I'll drop that game the next day.
Of course it's an additional revenue stream and that's their primary purpose for existence. But it still functionally acts as a soft gatekeeping mechanism to where only those who are willing to pay the toll are allowed in the club. I personally think this gatekeeping is worth paying for, regardless of whether there is an actual, tangible "service benefit" for the price (on XBL Gold not so much, but PS+ games can often be decent as a benefit).
It's essentially a bouncer toll and for me I think it's worth it. I play virtually zero multiplayer on PC.
What's really childish is the failure to understand how a soft paywall acts as a defacto gatekeeping mechanism to reduce the amount of online manipulation users engage in on an online platform.
It is almost like the difference between online social spaces that have moderation that is enforced, requiring a paid for email address to sign up for, versus social spaces that have little to no moderation & enforcement and allow any freely available email address to sign up to be a user. And how deeply different those spaces can be, simply due to the introduction of barriers and there being a cost associated with non-compliance. By default, any kind of tangible barrier placed up has an influence on the user and the experience. To think otherwise is ridiculous.
And this isn't a topic about language/harassment done over microphones/text, as yes you find that on any online platform regardless of paywalls. I'm speaking more broadly and in terms of end-user high level control and ability to manipulate things to their personal advantage on these services.
It's a tough one. As a mostly console Destiny player who's been domed repeatedly by crack shot MNK players on PC, my first inclination is to agree with opt-in. But the numbers (PVP) are roughly 140K - Xbox, 160K - PS and 100k - PC, daily. Having a player pool of 300K for Console and only 100K for PC doesn't seem fair.
Plus a combined player base of 400K might convince Bungie to re-expand the game modes that they've whittled down to almost nothing. Specifically for Destiny, I think better matchmaking will have a more positive effect on PVP than splitting the player base with opt-in. Opt-out is enough.
Plus a combined player base of 400K might convince Bungie to re-expand the game modes that they've whittled down to almost nothing. Specifically for Destiny, I think better matchmaking will have a more positive effect on PVP than splitting the player base with opt-in. Opt-out is enough.
Crossplay has been a big deal as my family and friends have become fragmented between different platforms. Even as recent as last night I was able to play in a group of people using a base Xbox One, PC, PS5 and Xbox Series S in a completely seamless way.
Quite a few competitive games I have played give options to disable the feature if the player feels the need to, so I don't see it as a significant or widespread problem that needs to be addressed.
I definitely disagree with your final comment, crossplay should be opt-out rather than opt-in, otherwise most of the benefits, especially with smaller titles that arguably benefit the most from the larger population, are pretty severely weakened.
Quite a few competitive games I have played give options to disable the feature if the player feels the need to, so I don't see it as a significant or widespread problem that needs to be addressed.
I definitely disagree with your final comment, crossplay should be opt-out rather than opt-in, otherwise most of the benefits, especially with smaller titles that arguably benefit the most from the larger population, are pretty severely weakened.
This whole thread is basically a larger argument for skill to be a part of matchmaking rather than platform or input. Skill ranking has been a well established part of online matchmaking for years now. Call of Duty has been doing it, even without crossplay, for most of a decade.
Similarly, hacking has been a reality for PC users for years. The developers and platform holders should take the opportunity that crossplay represents and address cheating more comprehensively.
All of this extra stuff about resolution, framerate, and settings is completely BS. It's excuses. The vast majority of PC gamers do not have hardware that is insanely better than consoles. You can confirm this via the Steam hardware survey. The vast majority of PC gamers do not even have 4K monitors. 4KTVs are more common than 4K monitors. The idea that the average PC gamer is either a high level CSGO player with a 144Hz@4K monitor or a hacker is a boogeyman console gamers make up in their heads.
Similarly, hacking has been a reality for PC users for years. The developers and platform holders should take the opportunity that crossplay represents and address cheating more comprehensively.
All of this extra stuff about resolution, framerate, and settings is completely BS. It's excuses. The vast majority of PC gamers do not have hardware that is insanely better than consoles. You can confirm this via the Steam hardware survey. The vast majority of PC gamers do not even have 4K monitors. 4KTVs are more common than 4K monitors. The idea that the average PC gamer is either a high level CSGO player with a 144Hz@4K monitor or a hacker is a boogeyman console gamers make up in their heads.
As long as they have decent anti cheat I want it to be the default with the choice to opt out. Keep playerbases large.
As a mostly controller user on PC , I think good controller users (in games with aim assist) are better than the majority of m+kB users.
Thanks to SBMM being everywhere the average players aren't gonna run into the players that are actually able to make use of the m+kB advantages to a level that negates the benefits of aim assist in most games.
People are too scared of PC players just because they only see the best players with the best hardware . The only real issue is cheaters but that just needs a good anti cheat with hardware bans .
As a mostly controller user on PC , I think good controller users (in games with aim assist) are better than the majority of m+kB users.
Thanks to SBMM being everywhere the average players aren't gonna run into the players that are actually able to make use of the m+kB advantages to a level that negates the benefits of aim assist in most games.
People are too scared of PC players just because they only see the best players with the best hardware . The only real issue is cheaters but that just needs a good anti cheat with hardware bans .
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That depends on the game. If you're playing Halo MCC right now and choose not to crossplay, you still have access to the entire Xbox playerbase. It just knows not to match you with PC players as well. You aren't only matching with others who chose not to do crossplay.
Why would It only be 100k with opt in? If not a single one of console players is is opt in. Why keep it in the first place?
Having opt out seems unfair for ppl not wanting to play with pc guys. Opt it is the most fair system.
Don't worry, you didn't have to tell us. We can tell.
Why? You can easily argue back "if not enough people opt out and the lobbies of console only people are empty, then enough people don't care about it, why have opt out?"
the reality is the option that is enforced will always have the majority behind it because people are either uninformed, lazy or apathetic
but on a larger scale, considering all games of all genres and sizes, forced crossplay brings more benefits than forced separate lobbies
Cross play is very important for the future! As someone who plays primarily PC now these days, it would be nice to have the option to cross play with console users.
Maybe the game could ask me something like: "Would you like to cross play with console users? If so, you will need to connect a valid controller."
Then I'd just pop in a DS4 or Xbox controller to my PC and play with console users.
Maybe the game could ask me something like: "Would you like to cross play with console users? If so, you will need to connect a valid controller."
Then I'd just pop in a DS4 or Xbox controller to my PC and play with console users.
True, some people would opt-in. I just figure most wouldn't. I could be wrong.
Why is opt-out unfair though? If the experience turns out to be awful and most people end up opting out, wouldn't it just go back to how it is now?
I get the OP's issue, but strongly disagree.
The default should always be to allow more people to play together. Start with being more inclusive, then let people decide for certain scenarios if they have an issue with it.
A large section of players will just never go into the settings, so crossplay defaulting to on will result in a bigger player base.
That being said, there should also be appropriate opt-out options for things like console vs M/K or declining Wi-Fi matches in fighting games.
The default should always be to allow more people to play together. Start with being more inclusive, then let people decide for certain scenarios if they have an issue with it.
A large section of players will just never go into the settings, so crossplay defaulting to on will result in a bigger player base.
That being said, there should also be appropriate opt-out options for things like console vs M/K or declining Wi-Fi matches in fighting games.
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I agree with Xbox/ps/switch. Pc should be opt in for most games. If it's forced pc gamers should get some restirctions. I stopped games that force it and wont touch a single one ever again.
i guess as long as one platform gets a better experience, the other three platforms doesn't matter anymore.
If only 20% opt out. They would have a worse experience as without crossplay existing.
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pc is not the only one getting benefits from widespread crossplay. the issue of cheating in high profile competitive shooters is but a drop in the ocean of every other game in every other genre that benefits from a large playerbase to pull from, regardless of platform. a niche fighting game having more people to match against shouldnt suffer because people cheat in CoD and instead of developing better anticheat measures the first solution people want is "pull crossplay off lol"
This is true. A while ago Rare stated that 93% of players leave crossplay on in Sea of Thieves. Not sure how these numbers are across other games, though.
Don't Halo players effectively have an *advantage* with controllers? At least comparing average to average?
These adapters are no where near as bad as hacking having faced people that use scripts or kb/m in aim assist off games of Battlefield.
How is the player base decimated? Are there any dev statements stating you only play with other people who opt out?
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Cheating isnt the only problem with pc crossplay. And the last decades showed there wont be better anti Cheating solution no matter what. But I agree give me crossplay with small niche games but fuck that with the big ones.
It's pve only isnt it? I guess OP is fine with coop games being crossplay.
Cheating isnt the only problem with pc crossplay. And the last decades showed there wont be better anti Cheating solution no matter what. But I agree give me crossplay with small niche games but fuck that with the big ones.
It's pve only isnt it? I guess OP is fine with coop games being crossplay.
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You don't need a PC to cheat. There's a good chance that cheaters you're up against are playing on consoles.
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