AgeEighty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,002
1) Isn't that to be expected? Older hits are a known quantity, so it's easy to want a remake of something you already know is good. It's a bit harder for people to clamor for something that doesn't yet exist.

2) It doesn't matter what gamers ask for, only what they buy.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,864
Greater Vancouver
Big publishers are plenty scared of going after new things as is. The "sure thing" is nothing more than what everyone else is doing. A remake just becomes another option because

A) pre-installed fanbase
B) template to build off of
C) nostalgia strings basically do marketing's job for them
 

FunMouse

Member
Apr 30, 2018
1,311
Yea I like trying new IPs and would honestly prefer they spend their resources on new things. Then again theres games like Legend of Dragoon and Chrono Cross, games I would love to see with current gen technology being used. Sigh... At least we are getting FF7R! I am pumped for that. Makes me feel like a Hypocrite but oh well lol.
 

fluffy pillow

Member
Sep 12, 2018
155
I'm all in for comprehensive reimaginings like Resident Evil 2 and 3 and Final Fantasy 7. They're like Hollywood remaking Ocean's Eleven: a new spin on the old idea; you can watch the original movie and the remake and have two different experiences.

I don't really understand the clamour for remasters for games that aren't system-locked, though. The Mass Effect games are all on PC, and can have the living crap modded out of them: if you want to play them with remaster-level HD textures and new models, you can do it already!

Perhaps the best option for a series like Mass Effect is to rerelease it for a budget price, DLC all-in, with all barriers to modders (DRM, encrypted files, etc.) removed, and with a system in place for PC mods to work on the consoles, like with Fallout 4. The community can do your remaster for you.
 

Deleted member 40102

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2018
3,420
Yup that's what I think but devs are also happy to do this as long as they don't need to write/ design something new and it still prints money.
 

Spence

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,126
Sweden
Some of the remakes was really enjoying to play, RE2 for example was amazing, also when a really good old game gets a nice quality bump and Switch port I wont say no to that, so looking at the experience for me personally they have a value.
 

OmegaDL50

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,832
Philadelphia, PA
I guess people's argument is bluepoint could have made a new game instead of say the Ico/SOTC collection but as you point out this is based on the mistaken impression that Sony -or whatever pub- is like "Give us the game you'd like to make!" rather than "we are commissioning you did this specific task because it has a market."

I mean going by the examples in the OP, I'm just using counter examples that make sense.

I don't think Grezzo developing the Link's Awakening remake is taking away resources from EAD and Monolith working on the Breath of the Wild sequel, nor would Grezzo beginning work on Oracle remakes cause an entirely new Zelda game like BOTW2 being prevented from coming out sooner.

Multiple studios within a single publisher and outsourcing companies like Grezzo in this case exist for a reason.
 

Leveean

Member
Nov 9, 2017
1,132
Let's not pretend the FF7 remake was competently managed. No game needs that much development time, especially a remake.
 

Huey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,540
I mean going by the examples in the OP, I'm just using counter examples that make sense.

I don't think Grezzo developing the Link's Awakening remake is taking away resources from EAD and Monolith working on the Breath of the Wild sequel, nor would Grezzo beginning work on Oracle remakes cause an entirely new Zelda game like BOTW2 being prevented from coming out sooner.

Multiple studios within a single publisher and outsourcing companies like Grezzo in this case exist for a reason.
Totally. To be clear, we are in complete agreement on this. This sentiment seems to be mostly based on misconception.
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,649
Far too many folks are still stuck in the belief that main studio projects resources are being taken away because of re-release or remake projects being made despite the fact that development studios also have multiple teams for different projects to worked on at the same time.

Also a lot of remakes and re-releases mainly rely on outsourcing companies to do a lot of the heavy lifting for the re-releases and remakes anyways.

You might as well be ask for companies like Bluepoint Games, Virtuos, and the likes to close up shop if you honestly believe there isn't a place for both entirely new experiences and remakes of older material to co-exist.

Those studios are hardly the only ones working on the games people are asking for though. The highest profile ones in recent memory, the resident evil 2/3 remakes and FF7R are being done in house and certainly seems to therefore be taking up resources that otherwise would be put towards full new sequels.
 

daninthemix

Member
Nov 2, 2017
5,043
I think remake / remaster begging should be as bannable as port begging when it's just randomly dropped into every thread about...literally every game.
 

DoradoWinston

Member
Apr 9, 2019
6,618
not only are we are getting high quality remakes and collections bringing these games to new platforms but we are getting a ton of new IP and sequels along side them so honestly i feel like we are kinda perfect where we are now
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,649
I mean going by the examples in the OP, I'm just using counter examples that make sense.

I don't think Grezzo developing the Link's Awakening remake is taking away resources from EAD and Monolith working on the Breath of the Wild sequel, nor would Grezzo beginning work on Oracle remakes cause an entirely new Zelda game like BOTW2 being prevented from coming out sooner.

Multiple studios within a single publisher and outsourcing companies like Grezzo in this case exist for a reason.

Grezzo have made original games, despite the poor release timing of ever oasis meaning few played it. It's about damned time they let Grezzo make a new 2d Zelda outright, otherwise we most likely just won't get one. It's already been seven years since a link between worlds.

If Grezzo are working in oracle remakes, they'll be 2-3 years out probably from the LA remaster and then it'll be 13 years or more between LBW and any possible actually new 2d Zelda, at minimum. And that sucks.
 

DoradoWinston

Member
Apr 9, 2019
6,618
Those studios are hardly the only ones working on the games people are asking for though. The highest profile ones in recent memory, the resident evil 2/3 remakes and FF7R are being done in house and certainly seems to therefore be taking up resources that otherwise would be put towards full new sequels.
if square enix had literally one team in Japan then i would agree but they dont and they have a ton of games in the works, plus lets not forget FF7R started life as a remake being made outside of SE but the quality was questionable enough and they were probably missing milestones so FF7R got moved in-house. Plus with each part of the remake being touted as its own full game (which is something a ton of people keep ignoring) its completely reasonable for it to take up the resources its taking, and its not even the only AAA game SE will put out this year
 

Pachinko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
984
Canada
Square soft has demonstrated that they can't make new games very well anymore for... almost 15 years straight now with the possible exception of FFXIV (and even that took 2 tries). So yeah, actually I would rather they remake old games with gobsmackingly good graphics for a modern audience to figure out what made them such a great developer in the late 90's to begin with.

Same goes for capcom, they've made a ton of Resident Evil games , many great , some pretty bad and they kind of lost their way a bit. RE2make/RE3make kind of made sense as a duo but after that ? ehh I'm not sure they'll need to do anymore unless RE8 is having a tough time in the oven.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
I disagree completely.

Remakess are great cause they can take something familiar and give us a fresh experience. REmake 2 didn't make RE2 obsolete. It was a different take on the same setting and very different that it might as well be a different game. FF7 remake is changing a lot of stuff, adding new stories and quests that will make it even more different than the original game.


Let's say we got a remake of the first two Metal Gear games. It obviously won't be the same game if it was remade in the same style as modern remakes are made (reimagining). A lot of people want those games for this reason.


Not to mention, a lot of game series are dead these days. Take Dino Crisis and Parasite Eve for example. Mobody but faans care about them and if the games got a remake then there is a good chance that a new series of games could be madee. PE in particular could benefit from this cause then they can make a reboot remake. PE3 (Third Birthday) is considered to be one of the most insulting games ever made. A remake of the first could alow them to replace the following game stories with different ones that actually respect Aya.
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
Square Enix should to remake all their old games since they don't have access to many of their old code.
 

Adventureracing

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
8,141
Why not both? Also have you considered that it's far easier to be excited for remasters and remakes because it's a known quantity? I mean sure I want brand new games but it's hard for me to be excited for them until they exist.

Compare that to something like OoT which i already know is an all time great game that I'll love as a remaster.
 

Shiranui93

One Winged Slayer
Member
Mar 7, 2018
429
Sure, I'll stop asking when they start making new games that are on par with the old ones. It's either remake or great sequel for me. If they don't deliver the latter, I'll ask for the former.
 

Sprat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,684
England
Understandable really most the best games we're made 91-02.

None of those oblige, loot, loot box crap.

Games had individual identities.
 
OP
OP
pleaseinsertdisctwo
Oct 31, 2017
14,991
Outsourcing companies like Bluepoint Games and Virtuos typically pick up the slack allowing original devs to work on their original projects. Also there is also the case of multiple teams within company that allows them the flexibility to handle more than one project at a time.

Case in point for Capcom. The Resident Evil 2 remake did not take away resources from Devil May Cry 5 from coming out and both games came out two months from each other.

If Bluepoint Games is indeed working on a Demon's Soul remake. That isn't taking away work from From Software working on Elden Ring.

As you say, I've never seen a case of a studio putting the production of an entire new game aside for a re-release or remake. There is a certain level of naivety from some folks that think FF7R or continued work on FF14 is someone taking away from the pre-production and early dev of FF16 or other unannounced projects being worked on.

No one is saying that VIIR is taking away from XVI; at least not in here. I'm saying:

1. I would rather have that team work on a new numbered title
2. Companies have a finite amount of resources
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
44,760
That's so true. It feels like games are becoming a lot more homogenous - especially in the AAA arena. As common as FPSes were last gen they felt more different (CoD vs Singularity vs Crysis for example) but the current open world titles don't really feel as different to each other IMO.And you also don't get nearly as many games in the same series either, with devs / publishers opting instead for bigger and bigger games that come along once a generation. I wish things could move back towards being a bit more experimental and have more variety in the AAA space.

Why it needs to be AAA?

Experimental games don't need a $50 million budget. We now have more variety than any other generation thanks to self publishing.

With a AAA budget, investors would want return and Coffee Talk (example) wouldn't be the same.
 

shuno

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
625
I'm with you. Since 90% of remakes are worse then the original, I can do without them.
 

OmegaDL50

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,832
Philadelphia, PA
I would love to see some proven evidence to suggest that a company who decides to work on a remake or remaster factoring multiple divisions to handle multiple projects at the same time, as well factoring outsourcing companies that handle external development would have used the same resources in developing an entirely new game instead.

Especially factoring entirely new games usually always require more investment and resources rather than reworking and modernizing an existing game, and the very few exceptions that do exist are small in number.

New IPs and the re-release of an existing IP is not something that is mutually exclusive.
 

RedGator

Member
Nov 7, 2017
436
New games come out all the time and you dont buy them, I'm sure not wanting the 5 or so remakes a year isn't leaving you with nothing to play.
 

FlintSpace

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,817
I understood this when publishers kept remastering stuff and people kept on buying. Nostalgia has always been exploited in video games, they would rather have the same formula compared to dare to try something else.

I mean DStranding wasn't perfect lol faar from it but it was fresh, and people were very reluctant to give it a try.
 

rochellepaws

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,489
Ireland
This is what happens from disappointments like FFXV, KH3 and RE6. The fans fear microtransactions, incomplete releases, trend chasing etc and feel more apprehensive than excited for the "new".
 

StraySheep

It's Pronounced "Aerith"
Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,384
I wonder if it is longing for a time where larger budget games were more diverse and free of nickel and diming. On top of normal nostalgia.
 

J_ToSaveTheDay

"This guy are sick" and Corrupted by Vengeance
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
19,125
USA
Having played RE2 original and RE2 Remake back to back, it did feel like a new experience to me in all but the story plot. It was a pretty new experience in my mind, despite the re-used plot and setting.

I feel like the gameplay differences for FFVII are going to be a radically different experience to FFVII, it just follows the same major plot beats — and there appears to be some attempt to shake up the plot somewhat, too.

Those kinds of remakes, I do really deeply appreciate — taking kind of the nostalgic plots and settings of old games and revamping them not only from a presentational standpoint but from a gameplay standpoint, too.

I have enjoyed my fair share of some straight presentation-uplift remakes this generation as well, though admittedly they haven't generally been quite as memorable, but still fun. Like, Crash Trilogy, Spyro Trilogy, Shadow of the Colossus. I do think we could use less of these as a whole, though.

But if devs are willing to reconsider the gameplay, I still think of it as generally a pretty fresh experience with a familiar backdrop. To me, it's a bigger and more substantial difference than say, a film remake, which is gonna be held pretty strongly only to its plot in its remake, and I don't mind one bit if devs approach remakes this way.
 

Dinjooh

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,893
Let's not pretend the FF7 remake was competently managed. No game needs that much development time, especially a remake.

While I'm sure there were hurdles along the way, the real test is how fast they can produce titles after this one. If they spent much longer than 'needed' in pre-production, they might have set themselves up to be ready to ship another FFVII title in two years time. I doubt it though.
 

Javier23

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,904
Personally, gimme all the remakes in the world if they are of the quality of, say, REmake, REmake 2, Crash, Spyro, Shadow of the Colossus, Ratchet, Medievil, etc.

They tend to be either esentially new great games built from the ground up or a perfect chance to revisit an old gem at its best. They are either great to revisit and rediscover old beloved games or to discover them for the first time.

I really like remasters and remakes of good games when done justice.
 

Nostradamus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,286
All these remakes are not as expensive or time consuming as a completely new game though, since most of the music, art, story and game design already exists (of course updates in these areas are still required). So, financially it makes loads of sense. My issue is with people that instead of supporting complete remakes, they tend to just ask for remasters that keep ALL aspects the same.
 

Alent

"This guy are sick"
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,807
I don;t even care about upgrades i just want the ability to play older games on recent consoles and the platform holders kinda suck with backwards compatibility (well, Sony and Ninty do right now), so the only other reasonable way to get those older, favourite games is by wanted a remaster/remake. I'd normally be perfectly happy with a Virtual Console of all the regular older games to rebuy from.

Link's Awakening though, i couldn't play far in the original game because of the message you got when you briefly brushed up against a pot without the glove equipped. That small QOL feature made a huge difference to me.
 

King Kingo

Banned
Dec 3, 2019
7,656
I dunno, remakes made Chrash Bandicoot and Spyro relevant again and the original Xenoblade Chronicles was a barrier for some players because of the games character textures.

I think remakes are necessary. From an industry standpoint, it's easy money. From a consumer standpoint, it's a chance to revisit a game in a modern context.
 

Mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,664
Having played RE2 original and RE2 Remake back to back, it did feel like a new experience to me in all but the story plot. It was a pretty new experience in my mind, despite the re-used plot and setting.

I feel like the gameplay differences for FFVII are going to be a radically different experience to FFVII, it just follows the same major plot beats — and there appears to be some attempt to shake up the plot somewhat, too.

Those kinds of remakes, I do really deeply appreciate — taking kind of the nostalgic plots and settings of old games and revamping them not only from a presentational standpoint but from a gameplay standpoint, too.

I have enjoyed my fair share of some straight presentation-uplift remakes this generation as well, though admittedly they haven't generally been quite as memorable, but still fun. Like, Crash Trilogy, Spyro Trilogy, Shadow of the Colossus. I do think we could use less of these as a whole, though.

But if devs are willing to reconsider the gameplay, I still think of it as generally a pretty fresh experience with a familiar backdrop. To me, it's a bigger and more substantial difference than say, a film remake, which is gonna be held pretty strongly only to its plot in its remake, and I don't mind one bit if devs approach remakes this way.
Pretty much stuff like RER and FF7R are basically just new games with a familiar base. Then there are remakes like Crash Team Racing: Nitro Fueled which thankfully didn't change up the gameplay too mucch but also expanded on what's in the game quite a bit.
 

ChippyTurtle

Banned
Oct 13, 2018
4,773
Is FF7 really a remake? 1997 is a long fucking time and lots of people never played it. I would honestly term it a new game.

Shit, I never played it, its basically a new game to me.
 

mxbison

Banned
Jan 14, 2019
2,148
Remakes are far less expensive and time-consuming to make.

Its a good way to make a lot of money and its not stopping any time soon.
 

Alienhated

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,605
1) I understand the modern Hollywood comparison in theory but i think it's overall kind of a false equivalency, since classic movie remakes, reboot and sequels are 90% guaranteed garbage in the making, while videogame ones currently hold a 90% track record of actually ending up pretty good.

2)Modern videgame remakes change the og games so much they almost become completely new experiences anyway.

3) Big companies usually have enough resources and manpower to handle both remakes and new games at the same time.

4)Honestly, this mythization about "new ips" looks even sillier sometimes in this day and age, considering how most of those clamored "new experiences" usually end up being copy-pasted, overly focus tested safe clones of other successful games anyway.

5)Absolutely not every old/dead genre is covered by modern indies and they usually lack AAA polishness and production values anyway.
 

XR.

Member
Nov 22, 2018
6,696
No one is saying that VIIR is taking away from XVI; at least not in here. I'm saying:

1. I would rather have that team work on a new numbered title
2. Companies have a finite amount of resources
Don't you think this is a bit selfish? For every expensive remake there are 2,000 new games but you still need every single game to be catered to you?

If people enjoy it I really don't see the problem.
 

2Blackcats

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,229
All your examples are 20 years old or more.

If classic games get remade every 20 odd years, that's fine.
 

Deleted member 49535

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 10, 2018
2,825
I really don't see what the problem is. And FFVII is a bad example. If the alternative to a remake is getting trash like XV, I'll gladly wait 10 years for VII remake to be complete.
 

Kaguya

Member
Jun 19, 2018
6,447
I do prefer new games, but in RE2 and RE3's case, the games are so different they're basically new games. With FFVII, even though it's also very different, a huge part of FF games are the story and characters and music, I still would have preferred a new FF over 7 remake.