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oliverandm

Member
Nov 13, 2017
1,177
Copenhagen, Denmark
Let me say this right out of the gate: I was sorely disappointed by Diablo Immortal, and I have several gripes with the project, but I cannot add to the vast amounts of comments that's been made about the game already. As such, this thread is not an attempt to discuss Diablo Immortal (there's already one for that), but rather one specific element of the presentation that pisses me off to no degree:

The treatment of Wyatt Cheng.

Wyatt Cheng is the senior game designer for Diablo 3 right now but it exactly what Wyatt Cheng is: Wyatt isn't part of the responsible marketing team. It is not his job to understand the customers, 'nor is it his job understand what they are looking for in the future. It's easy for us to ignore this fact - we might think it's absurd that a lead on the dev-team doesn't know better, but in the end it's irrelevant. Here is ultimately why:

Like it or not, Cheng is not responsible for any of this – and yet, he's probably more invested in Diablo than most everyone else. So even if Blizzard likes to shove it down your throat, there's likely some truth to his passion. They probably are passionate about it...

I have been against this for a while now. I don't mean Diablo Immortal, but this kind of marketing strategy.

It's not an old kind of strategy, but it really saw attention with Steve Jobs. He walked out there, as the expert authority on the matter, and communicated directly to journos and passionate fans.

It's a smart way of connecting with consumers, and it makes the ordeal seem less of sales pitch, but more of an authentic conversation. God knows I prefer it over the usual E3 Ubisoft conferences, where bad jokes reign supreme.

But perhaps most importantly: It blurs the line between business and community, and soon fans forget that all they see, hear, feel - and in the end buy - is a product tailored to find the perfect balance between something in demand, and something that will nurture the bottom line. Investors > everyone else.

Most marketing teams do a great job of hiding this fact, ultimately creating the aforementioned relationship, and that leads to trust. Trust which was so brutally broken at the announcement of Diablo Immortal. This is the backside to this kind of marketing. Fact of the matter is that once people get heavily invested in these things, they start believing that companies are there for them, and not for the investors.

But to think that Wyatt Cheng had to play the role of the evil guy during this fiasco... It feels so bad to me.

I don't know how they gather data, but I am yet to comprehend how the marketing team was honestly thinking the reaction would be any less brutal than it has been. To have Cheng walk on stage and present these paying attendees to witness everything they never asked for, and then force him to deter the frustration at the same time, making it even worse... God I pity the man... I truly hope he is alright. Imagine yourself in his shoes.

PR and marketing at Blizzard seems a fucking joke when you factor in the attempts of damage control, which we have seen the past days In my opinion Cheng was thrown under the bus, and I hope he gets the pad on the back he deserves. I don't think he has done a bad job at Blizzard – I think Diablo Immortal will be a good game for what it sets out to be.

It just wasn't what fans wanted. At all. The reaction seemed inevitable, but I don't support any notion that Cheng should've known better. That's not a fair statement, and certainly not when someone is getting paid to know this.
 

Jayson's Rage

Member
Oct 24, 2017
222
I hope these entitled children some day know what it is to feel shame for being such fucking babies about a spinoff of a series that has MULTIPLE TITLES IN DEVELOPMENT
 

Deleted member 25606

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
8,973
Weird. And here I thought it was not a passion of Diablo team. You know because it is a farmed out product that reskins the developers previous mobile Diablo rip offs.

So yeah weird your trying to defend a team that didn't make this and defend a game because if I don't I somehow hate the Diablo guys. No I will buy THEIR next game.

I do thinks it's dumb how mad people got, TLJ effect or something. That and people should remember who Blizzard got in bed with, I am surprised they are not forced into more of this kind of stuff to be honest.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,130
Yeah they should feel ashamed that they even entertained the idea that people would have reasonable reaction regarding a spinoff video game.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,055
Appalachia
I can definitely get behind the point here that people tend to forget that even community events aren't entirely for them, just as companies can forget that this assumption exists and put employees in tough spots because of it.

EDIT: This thread isn't going to end well lol
 

Mister Saturn

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
308
I feel bad for Wyatt Cheng and the emotional toll this has no doubt taken on him, and absolutely think he should not be blamed and especially not harassed over this blunder.

Thankfully, it seems that most of the dissent being voiced and expressed over Diablo Immortal has been done so respectfully and without malice. The reactions against that dissent, however...
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,838
Having gone through something similar studio-wise, if I've learned anything...

The "community" of manchildren will come and go, don't let their vileness and hate affect you. Take a step back, sigh, and think about the team.
If they are happy working on the projects, in the end, the people you stand with every day for years are the ones that matter. :)
 

Daitokuji

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,602
They did a bad job with the announcement and even Wyatt Cheng didn't seem to know much about the game or wasn't able to discuss it that much. He also clearly had no experience in customer service or PR with that awful "Don't you guys have phones?" quip he made.
 

Lyng

Editor at Popaco.dk
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,207
Yeah OP you are spot on. I feel really bad for Cheng. You could even sense that he knew this was bad from how uncomfortable he was on stage.
I have no doubt in my mind that he told, whoever gave him this task, that this would end in a shitstorm.
The marketing team at Activision/Blizzard made a massive fuck up.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,364
It was really just a bad attempt to give their outsourced game some form of credibility.
 

UsoEwin

Banned
Jul 14, 2018
2,063
Having gone through something similar studio-wise, if I've learned anything...

The "community" of manchildren will come and go, don't let their vileness and hate affect you. Take a step back, sigh, and think about the team.
If they are happy working on the projects, in the end, the people you stand with every day for years are the ones that matter. :)
Where do you draw the line between "manchildren complaining" and "we made a mistake" though?

Not trying to be antagonistic. Just want to know if you continue to truck on regardless of overwhelming negative response, or if you go back to the drawing board.
 

Steroyd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
691
As many people mentioned in the other thread said, PR around games are built on hype culture, the pre-order, the vertical slices, buy the season pass before we know what's in it, road maps to live services (even if the base game is barren).

But it seems that the companies forget the mindset they've cultivated so when they do something that they expect a little backlash it balloons into an out of control explosion.
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,028
Part of the issue is also Blizzard built their brand on 'blizzard magic' when a major IP gets handed off to a predatory developer with a bad reputation, they can't be given the benefit of the doubt.

This video covers why a lot of backlash is more than just 'hur dur mobile' The company's reputation is part of a game';s hype and they removed themselves from the game.

 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,838
Where do you draw the line between "manchildren complaining" and "we made a mistake" though?

Not trying to be antagonistic. Just want to know if you continue to truck on regardless of overwhelming negative response, or if you go back to the drawing board.

Wouldn't want to make any assumptions about others. Perhaps they are proud of this project and want to present it to the world?
 

Deleted member 25606

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
8,973
And no one reads the OP already.
I read the OP and felt it was weird because I agree he should not take heat but the OP tried in the OP to frame it around his passion and faith in the game when it's not actually made by blizzard and if I got any feeling out of the announcement it wasn't connecting that was the problem he looked deflated.

His team were teasing something big, They hyped and branded a Switch release and then weeks before blizzcon a short mostly ignored "sorry nothing big for Diablo" post and then made him announce a mobile game they did not make. It was probably humiliating and he needs no defense especially the one fabricated in the OP.


As for blame for this I would look for a culprit in the vicinity of where Kotick hangs his hat.
 

sph3re

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
8,414
Having gone through something similar studio-wise, if I've learned anything...

The "community" of manchildren will come and go, don't let their vileness and hate affect you. Take a step back, sigh, and think about the team.
If they are happy working on the projects, in the end, the people you stand with every day for years are the ones that matter. :)
Manbabies? Complaining about something DICE was barely involved in? I don't--nay, I refuse to believe it!
 

Swenhir

Member
Oct 28, 2017
521
The way that a marketing and/or management team that should have known better threw a seasoned professional under the bus was shameful and a bitter betrayal.

In most threads I've read, people are actually quite sympathetic to him which is a very heart-warming thing to see when I get the impression that people are otherwise very quick to jump the gun these days.
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,148
Regardless of how one feels, they shouldn't go and boo others on a stage. Completely disrespectful.
It gets the point across in the only other way execs understand outside hard numbers. Money and image is what it's all about. We already know it's going to make them plenty of money, so image is the only weapon the core audience really has here to show they feel slighted.

I also don't think this was aimed at Cheng. People mostly understand that it's probably not a choice he really had. I'm sure talking to many of the Diablo team if they were allowed to be honest would yield a lot of frustration. But in the end they're employees of Blizzard/Activision so, they get the work that's handed to them.
 

sph3re

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
8,414
Regardless of how one feels, they shouldn't go and boo others on a stage. Completely disrespectful.
Oh, I'm agreeing with you 100%, I'm just saying that I'm less than surprised that a company like EA DICE attracts such vitriol from manbabies on the internet. One of the shittiest things about being a subsidiary for one of the biggest game publishers in the world.

It's definitely disrespectful to act the way they did. Christ, it's not Diablo 4, but my god, it's like they went up there and insulted their mothers.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,470
Regardless of how one feels, they shouldn't go and boo others on a stage. Completely disrespectful.

Not this again

Booing and clapping are how a crowd responds to a presentation - be it negative or positive, its the feedback a crowd gives regarding what they thought about something they just watched. Every other facet of entertainment be it music, sports, films, stage plays, standup comedies and etcetera also have to deal with it. It's only with gaming that booing became such a crime. Wanting fans to only react if they have something positive to say is absurd.

And as David pointed out, the booing came at the Q&A, not the main presentation. It was an answer to the fact that the game was not planned to be on pc as well. It was the feedback from a pc focused crowd about that decision in particular, not a personal attack towards the people doing the Q&A

I don't know about that, the audience paid a lot of money for tickets/accommodation/transport and for what? So Blizzard spit in their faces? They're allowed to be angry.

Please let's not do the whole "spit on their faces!!!" exaggeration again. It's the basis of their counterpoint. It wasnt a spit on anyone's face, it was a controversial (to the crowd) decision that was met with disapproval. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,148
They were completely silent until they stated they have no plans for PC. At that point how do you figure they're booing specifically at Cheng and not at that decision?
You're right, hence this is kind of throwing Cheng under the bus. That doesn't mean people shouldn't boo when they dislike something though, would it have been ok to boo if it was Bobby Kotick, the Net CEO? Like who's an appropriate person on stage to boo at the decision? I feel bad for Cheng, but I absolutely don't blame him for the tone deaf presentation or decision that was made. He's just doing his job. That being said I also would have voiced my displeasure had I'd been there.
 
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