I Love it when game devs Lie to me about the Story. [FF7 Remake and Last of Us part II spoilers]
- Thread starter jman1954goat
- Start date
For someone that didn't played a lot of the original FFVII and forgot most of what played, I get the new one is different because I remember the Midgar section ending was different, but what makes this game a sequel by playing just this first part?
About Part II they where bold and I loved.
Edit:
Cool, imagine if Sephiroth wins this time rs
I should have finished the original before playing, I have PS4 version, this reveal would have more impact on me playing.
what in the end already shows the result of Sephiroth's interference? and how would he know he lost in the original?
About Part II they where bold and I loved.
Edit:
Cool, imagine if Sephiroth wins this time rs
I should have finished the original before playing, I have PS4 version, this reveal would have more impact on me playing.
what in the end already shows the result of Sephiroth's interference? and how would he know he lost in the original?
Tks, but I don't get how Sephiroth has this knowledge, I must have missed, I forgot most of the game.
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Raiden is an amazing analog for the player.
I highly recommend reading this essay. It's a bit long but it perfectly breaks down what MGS2 was aiming for.
D-T-G || Driving Off the Map
www.deltaheadtranslation.com
the remake recognizes that the original happened and Sephi-boy seems to be trying to fuck with the timeline in order to make it so he wins in the end instead.its a remake in the truest sense in that they aren't retelling the story. It's getting made again with entities that are aware of what happened the first time around.
The Sephiroth in the game is very likely the OG Sephiroth from post-Advent-Children who somehow went back in time to try to win.
The Zack timeline and Aerith and Red XIII seeing visions of the future and Advent Children. The Fate ghosts constantly trying to make sure that the correct timeline happens(one example being Cloud almost kills one of the Turks which didn't happen in the original among many other examples). Sephiroth gives hints on what he says. Also read the monster descriptions on the fate ghosts.
The writers were trying to not be too obvious and over the top with all of the hints they laid out. If they did that people would have complained more.
Yeah everyone was thinking Dina was gonna die prerelease and there was already "bury your gays trope" sort of concern from the jump.
They also made it seem like Joel was going to help Ellie on a revenge trip, so while you think he could of died, you think it'd be much later in the game.
Just great misdirection, we all fell for it pretty hard. Now we know to never trust a ND trailer lol we've been warned.
They also made it seem like Joel was going to help Ellie on a revenge trip, so while you think he could of died, you think it'd be much later in the game.
Just great misdirection, we all fell for it pretty hard. Now we know to never trust a ND trailer lol we've been warned.
I think I should watch Advent Children and play both games again. This is really cool.
The only "leak" I saw was the fake 4chan one from like February that said there was a cult that specifically targets LGBT people and they kill Dina at the start, and Ellie goes after them. I knew how ridiculously fake it was, but it still shows what people thought.
The only thing I knew before playing was Abby's name, was spoiled in a thread here, nothing more, but playing with her wasn't a surprise, because the Paris trailer was pretty clear to me she was playable at that point, I was expecting Ellie/Her (didn't know her name until near the release) to be playable and hoping for Joel, the surprise was the reason behind and how they did the switch.
Well done Neil.
Nothing is outright stated, so we're in the realm of speculation and interpretation, but here are a few clues. Spoilers for VII Remake and the Original in here:
Sephiroth shows himself to Cloud after the first reaction, which doesn't happen in the original. This would normally delay him stop him from meeting Aerith on the street. When he does meet Aerith, she's been beset by Arbiters, who seemingly have kept her distracted until Cloud shows up, correcting the issue.
Barret doesn't intend to bring Cloud and Tifa on the second reactor run, as in the original. Instead, he intends to go with the rest of the Avalanche crew. The Whispers attack the bar, and injure Jessie, forcing Barret to take Tifa and Cloud. Again, the Whispers put the story back on track with the original.
In the Church with Aerith, Cloud has a vision of a particular scene from the original game. That vision did not exist in the original. Also, the Whispers save Aerith from falling off a Church balcony.
The Whispers stop Avalanche from preventing the Sector 7 plate from falling, leading to the death of Jessie and Biggs. Notably, Wedge survives despite dying here in the original, which may indicate the Whispers are losing some control. They seem to get him later though.
The real big one, Sephiroth stabs and seemingly kills Barret in Shinra tower. The Whispers straight out bring him back to life.
In the final fight, Sephiroth encourages the team to "defy destiny" and seems to give them visions which align with the end of the original game. Out of context, these visions look bad (Meteor and a fully overgrown Midgar with seemingly no life), and the Party defeats the Whispers to prevent these visions from happening. None of this was in the original at all. The Midgar section ended after the highway fight the big robot who's name I can't remember.
So the idea that "Sephiroth is from the future" mostly comes from the fact that he seems to know what's going to happen, and actively manipulates the party into going "off script". How he has this knowledge isn't explained yet, but the general speculation is that Sephiroth manipulated the Lifestream to go back in time.
Basically, it's something of a sequel because there are characters and forces in the game that are actively working with and responding to the events of the original game.
Barret doesn't intend to bring Cloud and Tifa on the second reactor run, as in the original. Instead, he intends to go with the rest of the Avalanche crew. The Whispers attack the bar, and injure Jessie, forcing Barret to take Tifa and Cloud. Again, the Whispers put the story back on track with the original.
In the Church with Aerith, Cloud has a vision of a particular scene from the original game. That vision did not exist in the original. Also, the Whispers save Aerith from falling off a Church balcony.
The Whispers stop Avalanche from preventing the Sector 7 plate from falling, leading to the death of Jessie and Biggs. Notably, Wedge survives despite dying here in the original, which may indicate the Whispers are losing some control. They seem to get him later though.
The real big one, Sephiroth stabs and seemingly kills Barret in Shinra tower. The Whispers straight out bring him back to life.
In the final fight, Sephiroth encourages the team to "defy destiny" and seems to give them visions which align with the end of the original game. Out of context, these visions look bad (Meteor and a fully overgrown Midgar with seemingly no life), and the Party defeats the Whispers to prevent these visions from happening. None of this was in the original at all. The Midgar section ended after the highway fight the big robot who's name I can't remember.
So the idea that "Sephiroth is from the future" mostly comes from the fact that he seems to know what's going to happen, and actively manipulates the party into going "off script". How he has this knowledge isn't explained yet, but the general speculation is that Sephiroth manipulated the Lifestream to go back in time.
Basically, it's something of a sequel because there are characters and forces in the game that are actively working with and responding to the events of the original game.
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Thank you very much, this all makes sense, I didn't catch playing because I didn't remember most of the original, but I remember the highway escape against the robot being the end of Midgar.
yeah lol I remember a lot of Abby is Ellie's mom speculation too. Even though people were on the right path with Ghost Joel they threw people off the scent with how they presented their footage.
Wtf
I gotta finish OG FF7 first to make sense of this, it's so hard to follow at times lol
I don't mind them making changes. I just want those changes to be... Good lol. Different strokes, but the cheapening of death in 7R is insane.
The changes in VIIR were awesome and I say that as someone who loves the OG but dislikes the Compilation.
While I understand the main ones in the OP, I wasn't very impressed with Arkham Knight, and the whole "He's an original character guys" shtick that Rocksteady did. It was incredibly obvious what his real identity was, ahead of release.
Even in the first interaction ingame, it becomes crystal celar.
Even in the first interaction ingame, it becomes crystal celar.
I played the original FF VII for the first time on PS4, and it's on every platform now. The remaster has many QoL options.
This thread has made me super glad I didn't bother with FFVIIr. I knew they had made story changes (which is fine if they add depth/context), but I hate "alt-timeline, they're both equally real" settings unless that's the main thrust of the story. There are only so many gimmicks a setting can have before it feels ridiculous to me. So, thank you all for the heads up. Honestly.
I absolutely loved the TLOU2 dual-protagonist setup. I didn't know about the Abby half of the game, so it was a complete surprise to me and I got the most out of that ride of starting out thinking "Oh no I don't want to be this asshole..." Then going on the journey to realise a lot of people are being jerks in the situation.
The Raiden MGS2 switch angered me as a teen... But then I eventually grew to appreciate being the young dude taken under Snake's wing.
I absolutely loved the TLOU2 dual-protagonist setup. I didn't know about the Abby half of the game, so it was a complete surprise to me and I got the most out of that ride of starting out thinking "Oh no I don't want to be this asshole..." Then going on the journey to realise a lot of people are being jerks in the situation.
The Raiden MGS2 switch angered me as a teen... But then I eventually grew to appreciate being the young dude taken under Snake's wing.
What's funny about part 2 is I more or less figure the plot out before the game came out. Only thing I didn't think of was
joel dying & how early he goes, just thought it was too obvious, but I guess not...
It being accessible, albeit still highly antiquated and in a genre that's grown much less popular over the years, doesn't make it any less of a Boomer game. You can't suddenly take away the years of it being a cultural phenomenon you weren't a part of, or the numerous times it's been spoiled only for people to argue that it's your fault because your 10 year old self wasn't interested in seeking out old-ass JRPGs to play. The experience that people who were around for when it came out is gone forever, and that's the primary kind of experience that FFVIIr is capitalising on.
I mean, the game is ultimately a remake either way, so it was always going to be that. I don't really see the issue. There are also new FF games for new generations to have their own game like that for.
people surprised that a main character dying in a sequel to a zombie apocalypse story bewilder me
For real. I didn't pay too much attention to the hype cycle, but I heard "ellie revenge story" and immediately knew Joel wasn't lasting very long.
I think most of the surprise though tbf comes less from him dying and more the unceremonious quality of his death.
Again though, last of us didn't really tend to have big death scenes really, so I'm not sure why people were thinking differently for Joel.
My generation's Final Fantasy games are the 13 trilogy, an MMO, and 15 lol
And, really, it's not like I have it out for the game or anything. I really loved some of the moments in there and, if it weren't for that ending and the whole timeline-whatever bullshit, I would have loved the game as a whole despite its shortcomings. But I just can't get invested when, say, a cartoon cat I've never seen and don't know about appears at random during the game's most pivotal emotional scene or when, say, the game starts cutting to a moment that I'm expected to know and care about during its final cutscenes. Moments like those just tell me that the game isn't for me, that it's not trying to emotionally endear itself to me because I'm expected to have an emotional attachment to a game that, at this point, might as well be homework.
A lot of people thought Joel "deserved" to be the exception because he was a rugged "badass" cowboy and there was no way a girl could kill him like Abby.
OP
OP
Joel got a shotgun to the back of the knee. I'm pretty sure I could take out Joel in that situation.
P.S. Abby likely beats Joel in a fair fight she is an active soldier and joel is past his prime.
Not yet at the very least. The advent children connection is there... But kind of unimportant. I expect crisis core might be relevant as the remake series goes on tho tbh
Yeah, Joel is what? Like 60 in part 2? He should be outclassed by someone trained as a soldier.
It rocks. It's almost impossible to keep big secrets of that scale, so I love it when devs manage to pull it off. Lie to me, baby.
Hell, I remember people claiming it was Ellie's mom.
How wrong they were.
Did they? If you're talking about them editing together two scenes to make it look like Ellie was pointing a gun a Joel I don't see that the same way. That's the viewer assuming a connection, not a faked scene.
Just like MGS2, I've been a big fan of TLOU2 and FF7R's strategic marketing.
I'm also a big fan of how Nintendo handled Age of Calamity, but sad to see this one remains so controversial with the vocal minority.
I guess I just don't take my primary hobby of 30+ years as seriously as some others do.
I'm also a big fan of how Nintendo handled Age of Calamity, but sad to see this one remains so controversial with the vocal minority.
I guess I just don't take my primary hobby of 30+ years as seriously as some others do.
As someone who didn't play OG FF7 and was expecting to be introduced to the story with the remake I absolutely hate this lmao.
I enjoyed the game for what it was though.
FFVIIR pisses me off honestly. I wanted to play FFVII when I was a kid (2003), but didn't have the money and when I did I couldn't find it (didn't know how to shop online). When that PS3 tech demo came out I decided to wait for a remake, we finally get it and it's cut into pieces, plays completely differently, and doesn't even have the same fucking story, and nearly every FFVII die hard I see is like "You should play the original before you play the remake." I waited all that time for nothing.
The ending of FFVIIR being unintelligible to someone who hasn't played the original is not something I personally appreciated.
wait.. what?
i finished ff7R and didn't infered that, i just understood that the party can change the future because they ""know"" what's going to/may happen.
As someone who never played the original, but know the major plot points from the game I don't really mind the changes made to the story hopefully it pays of and doesn´t end up being a complety mess like KH.
Having said that, I really have to put an effort to actually play Remake. The game keeps cutting me off to show me some minor stuff and forcing me to walk instead of letting me control Cloud. I also really hate the hold button to do thing trend and distinctly remember a door in Corneo's place that while playing as Cloud you have to hold triangle to open but somehow Aerith doesn't. I also don't get why the game had to be split into two (?) parts.
Sorry for the rant, if anything this thread made me realize that I should probably just watch a let's play from the point I am and save me the hassle.
Having said that, I really have to put an effort to actually play Remake. The game keeps cutting me off to show me some minor stuff and forcing me to walk instead of letting me control Cloud. I also really hate the hold button to do thing trend and distinctly remember a door in Corneo's place that while playing as Cloud you have to hold triangle to open but somehow Aerith doesn't. I also don't get why the game had to be split into two (?) parts.
Sorry for the rant, if anything this thread made me realize that I should probably just watch a let's play from the point I am and save me the hassle.
Can't wait for Aerith to come from nowhere and stab sephiroth in the back, then have cloud sink him in the water.