Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,440

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Dragon Ball was a huge success in Europe, or the West is only the US?

I literally said in America.

If you want me to be even more specific the United States.
This is revisionist history. Only the first arc of Dragon Ball aired in America before Z and it was in obscure syndication unlike Z
I mean even when DB actually started airing it still pales to Z.

Again please note that I actually prefer DB and some Super to Z. I just think OP has something of a point that a bunch of defensive fans are ignoring.

I think in the 80's and 90's things like these creature designs could absolutely affect the appeal of the series in the West.

I'm not asking them to change anything and I don't think OP is either.
 

Kyuur

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,545
Canada

I suppose we could pick and choose all day but I think Pokemon ratio of silly designs is far lower than what I've seen of DQ. That being said, it could be skewed towards the more basic enemies as one poster pointed out above (although some of those more serious designs still have a twinge of "silly" to them, something about the faces).
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,134
I always thought the issue was just that America and Japan value different things; like the old issue of instant gratification versus working for your reward.
 

Pancho

Avenger
Nov 7, 2017
1,981
I don't think the enemy design is the issue. More like they have very little faith in the series to make it big here so they barely market it. Like weeks before the release I was conscious it was gonna release soon and suddenly it did. No fanfare no nothing, it just did. The game barely received any sort of marketing.

And honestly, if anyone's dodging the game because of "silly" designs they are being...well... silly xD
Part of what I loved is seeing increasingly crazy and unique monster designs as I advanced through the game.
I mean there's a monster that is a dragon dressed as a scholar called Professaurus, how can you not love that?
 

Blackquill

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
783
Look at this motherfucker :

dq5-saber.jpg


The perfect balance between cartoony and cool, how can you call that silly ?
 

Santar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,300
Norway
You say silly, I say charming.
Not every game needs to have scary looking monsters in it.
Dragon Quest always came across as a very charming more lighthearted series and that's fine.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,145
Is OP correct that it's not selling well in the west? Gimme that bomba price drop and I'll try DQ11 after swearing off JRPGs since FFXII.
 
OP
OP
sn00zer

sn00zer

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,208
Pokemon is huge in the west and a lot of their designs are "silly".
It was also originally marketed to 10 year olds. More recent broader scope marketing is based on nostalgia and having grown with the series, which DQ doesnt have the advantage of in US. It does however have the advantage in Japan.
International Pokemon 20th Anniversary Trailer [shared nostalgia across the world]:


Dragon Quest XI Nostalgia Trailer [shared nostalgia only in Japan]:
 

Sgt. Demblant

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,030
France
Yeah, who the fuck is that Toriyama guy anyway?
...

8 and 9 sold huge in mainland Europe. So it's not a "West" thing. Square just dropped the ball with 11's marketing. It happens.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,134
Bringing up Pokemon is reminding me of that old Time magazine interview with Satoshi Tajiri.

TIME: A lot of people blame violence in video games for violent things young people do, especially in the U.S. Do you feel guilty about that?

Tajiri: In Japan, violence in games is pretty much self-regulated. In the 1980s, there was a game called Bullfighter where the matador stabbed the bull and red blood squirted out. The day after it was released, they changed the blood to green. There's more violence in games in the U.S., in things like Mortal Kombat, where they rip out hearts and cut off heads. Japanese people wouldn't come up with ideas of blood splattering all over. Japanese focus more on the intricacies of the actions, the motion.

TIME: The TV people in the U.S. were worried about violence in Pok�mon. Can you believe that?

Tajiri: I'm very careful about violence in games. I'm not interested in creating violent effects.

TIME: It seems like role-playing games are more popular in Japan than the U.S. Why's that?

Tajiri: Well, one reason is that back when we had arcade games only, they cost 100 yen for one game. I think in the U.S. it was always [much cheaper at] 25 cents. So 20 years ago we thought it was very expensive, but when role-playing games were introduced in Japan, it was revolutionary because once you bought the software, no matter how many times you played, it was free.

TIME: So Japanese game designers aren't making violent games?

Tajiri: No, they make them. But only to sell in the U.S.

TIME: Still, American kids like Pok�mon, even without the blood.

Tajiri: I was really careful in making monsters faint rather than die. I think that young people playing games have an abnormal concept about dying. They start to lose and say, "I'm dying." It's not right for kids to think about a concept of death that way. They need to treat death with more respect.
 

Black_Red

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,929
Only Slime can be recognized by most people (And I mean gamers).

And I agree that it affect it's popularity, but I like that the monsters look like early Dragón Ball.
 

Dali

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,184
They are pretty boring and the battles dont have as much visual flare as other jrpgs.
 

GenG

Member
Oct 26, 2017
458
Funny, I just bought a 50€ 25th Anniversary book detailing all the monsters from the whole series.

They are definitely part of the charm and personality of the series.
 

KratosEnergyDrink

Using an alt account to circumvent a ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
they're all iconic monster designs in the history of video games man
if the west doesn't buy those games because of that then fuck the west

They are just not iconic, they look like very simple sacharine induced standard designs. Its something you see in the mobile gaming space often now.

If a game wants to be a epic RPG its weird to look at cute, smiling and big-eyed monsters all the time.

Nothing wrong with enjoying sacharine cuteness (nothing wrong with enjoying grim designs either) its just not a good a fit to get to a western RPG audience.
 

Jager

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,172
UK
I've always found them charming as hell; the problem is all in the marketing, clearly.

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Plenty of successful franchises in the West that completely counter your point, OP.
 

Viale

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,646
The enemy designs are in a huge part of the charm of the game though and helps make it more endearing. I want to kafrizzle some cute looking enemies dammit.
 

Deleted member 2791

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,054
Dragon Quest's monster design is one of the biggest reasons as to why it is today such an important franchise and is a cornerstone in the evolution and growth of the video game medium.
They're all incredibly unique, easily recognizable by anyone who has just a slight knowledge of the series and played even just one of the games. It helped make gaming more recognizable, more family-friendly. Everyone know that a slime, a golem, a giant, a skeleton knight is from dragon quest, and their designs are simple yet so "Dragon Quest-like".
0575910001439807121710_150817_DQMSL_01.jpg

dwm2gbc_packin_poster.jpg
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,378
Barcelona
Nah, the charming enemy design is the only thing I really enjoyed from the battles in DQ XI. They look silly and childish, sure, because the game story and world is silly and childish, it's the charm of the game.

DQ is a series that focues (too much) in the series tradition, so you can expect silly monsters and talking to the same NPC in every town in the next game too.
 

Vaco6121

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
361
Near Rochester, MN
The monster designs isn't the reason why the series never become a hit in the West it has more to do with Enix's terrible handling of Dragon Quest releases in the West. Dragon Quest 1 thru 4 did launch on the NES in North America, Europe didn't get any mainline game until Dragon Quest 8. The series completely missed the SNES in North America; there was a 9 year gap in North America between Dragon Quest 4 and Dragon Quest 7 releases and when Dragon Quest 7 launched in North America on the PS1 in 2001, the same year that Final Fantasy X launched on the PS2. How do you build up a series with releases like that?
 

crema

Member
Oct 27, 2017
133
I think this is part of a wider issue, where the general art direction and 'style' of the series is unappealing to most older consumers in the West.

This is a problem when combined with game mechanics that are too complicated and/or dull for younger gamers, who are probably more likely to appreciate the designs.

People in this thread comparing the issue to Pokemon are missing the point. Pokemon had a young target market and successfully delivered a product that appealed to that target market (gameplay/style/promotion etc.). It's since matured somewhat and is able to play off nostalgia to keep older gamers interested today.

Dragon Quest is targeting the nostalgia of older gamers who grew up with these games in their childhood, hence sticking with the same simple artstyle. This works in Japan where there is a string cultural attachment to the series, but is less effective in places where there isn't much nostalgia for the franchise.

*Massive disclaimer, I haven't followed Dragon Quest XI sales so maybe I'm wrong and they've finally found their target market here at last.
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,928
Argentina
As a PlayStation fan, I understand that Final Fantasy VII made JRPGs popular outside japan (I mean, much more popular). If I'm not mistaken it wasn't until Dragon Quest VIII that you could play a Dragon Quest game on a console with good production values.

I guess VII came out in the west in 2001 for PlayStation and that game in comparison to FFVIII and IX, Chrono Cross and others looks ancient, so that probably would turn out a lot of people, besides I didn't even know that game existed back then while I surely knew about VIII right away.

There's a marketing and budget thing going on here, they did their best for VIII and I think it worked, they didn't do much with the rest I guess.

XI looks really cool but it's the people and press doing the marketing for that game, Square doesn't seem to have any.
 

JMeth

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
251
Illinois
The monster designs are why I love DQ, as are the old school sound effects. Without either, it's just not DQ and not worth playing
 

Solo Kazama

Banned
Dec 27, 2017
222
Its the music. Its like 90th midi with not good melody (other DQ had decent melodies).

Even me - DQ player (not hard but played 5 different DQs) - even I dont like the music a lot. And I cant remember when I didnt like a music in a game.
 

FallenGrace

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,059
This is an era weekend thread alright lol.

Perhaps there is truth in it but for me it's the colour and designs that make me a fan to be honest.
 

Ascheroth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,916
They're insanely charming (the animations are soooo good) and can also look cool.
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79E1F8ACC8338BD964BF63187A6B7374109FB52F

The monster design is one of the things I like the most about DQ 11.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,461
They're insanely charming (the animations are soooo good) and can also look cool.
I haven't played them yet but I agree.

tumblr_pf9p844siF1vefsjmo1_500.gif


This is aaarrrttt.



I don't think the "sillyness" factor is relevant. There's this sort of mindset that looks down on whimsical things that I think has actually been holding back some segments of gaming; not necessarily "in the West" as in general. Grimdark edge has its place, and that place is not in everything.

I'm ok with fantastical things in my fantasy settings.
 

Squid Bunny

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 11, 2018
5,349
ERA with threads questioning Dragon Quest's monster design and music on the same day, good lord.

Dragon Quest is all about its unique audiovisual identity and RPG system, that ties every game together despite each game in the series having its own narrative structure (DQ IV's multiple chapters, DQ V's lifelong adventures, DQ VII's episodic format, DQ VIII's sprawling epic, etc).
 

Jager

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,172
UK
I haven't played them yet but I agree.

tumblr_pf9p844siF1vefsjmo1_500.gif


This is aaarrrttt.



I don't think the "sillyness" factor is relevant. There's this sort of mindset that looks down on whimsical things that I think has actually been holding back some segments of gaming; not necessarily "in the West" as in general. Grimdark edge has its place, and that place is not in everything.

I'm ok with fantastical things in my fantasy settings.
Can I just bring up the death animation for these guys?

They flop back and the spear will fly into the air then back down and impale them.

All monsters have unique animations like this, it's so dope.
 

Dreamboum

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,031
Clearly, which is why I called for a complete change of the series to fit my taste. Truly I understand what a western audience wants and am calling on the most popular Japanese series to completely change its aesthetics.

No I am just saying the enemies look silly.

Equating one of the reasons DQ isn't popular with its monster design is very different from you not liking them.

But I'm sure FFXV's designs, that you call "insane", is far more striking and evocative. I dearly remember chaps like those

latest

latest


This one though ? Unremarkable, surely.

tumblr_peur8uNgUF1vefsjmo1_500.gif
 
Jul 24, 2018
10,479
Toriyama's artstyle has never really done it for me, I will admit that his character work for Dragon Quest is better than Dragon Ball, where all the male characters are just different iterations of Goku.