excelsiorlef

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Think about the potential to do an Avengers/marvel assemble moment that includes say the FoX-Men, Toby and Andrew Spider-Men, cartoons, whatever.

I can see a track similar to Portals that incorporates not just the Avengers theme, but say Toby Spider-Man's, John Ottmans X-Men theme, if I was doing it Henry Jackman's Magneto and X themes, the X-Men classic cartoon, the Spider-Man classic cartoon, etc...

Just this multiversal assortment of greatest musical themes across marvel film/tv flowing together building to the mcu Avengers theme

To better explain

Yeah I invoked Portals because it would be almost by necessity a giant Portals like pan shot and I was thinking you have like a base score piece, could be war drums heavy maybe then as we pan bits of X-Men tas, Spider-Man classic 60s theme, Raimi Spider-Man, Ottman X-Men, First Class X-Men/Magneto, Garfield Spider-Man, I'd go mad deep cut and do all kinds of the other old 90s cartoons Spider-Man, Ironman, Fantastic Four, everything they can. Just weave it all in as an audio tapestry with new instrumentation, all from the same orchestra, that builds to the Avengers MCU theme.


I was less thinking of the visual of it all as much as how Secret Wars offers a chance to do essentially a History of Marvel musical score track
 
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LewieP

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Oct 26, 2017
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I wonder if Linda will show up

youtu.be

Linda (1984) - Opening

Linda is a Hungarian action adventure series that aired on Hungarian television from 1984–1989, and was created by György Gát.Uploaded for archiving purposes...
 

subpar spatula

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User Banned (1 Week): Trolling; History of Trolling MCU Threads
I cannot remember the musical score from Endgame or Avengers. Not culturally significant enough for me.
 

Katamari

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I'd be pretty pumped if Jake Sully showed up with Na'vi across the three Avatar films.
 

Wrexis

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I'd be pretty pumped if Jake Sully showed up with Na'vi across the three Avatar films.

I mean, let's expand that. Bring in Aliens, Predators, Mikey Mouse in his Kingdom Hearts persona.

===

To be honest I'm less enthused about Portals 2.0. It just seems so low hanging "Omg, let's do portals again, but with everyone".
Some might be fun, Wolverine, sure. Anya Taylor Joy back as Magik? Maybe.

But Dark Phoenix is still tainted for me. I really don't want to see Patrick Stewart again.
 

Listai

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I have no idea what you are talking about. I'm struggling to remember the Avengers theme.
 

Scullibundo

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Oct 25, 2017
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The portals scene is lame as hell and the better use of Silvestri's theme is when Cap arrives in Infinity War imo.
 

Katamari

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I mean, let's expand that. Bring in Aliens, Predators, Mikey Mouse in his Kingdom Hearts persona.

I guess. But by then Avatar will be three of the top five films of all-time. It alone can draw in more people than all of the marvel characters combined. I think more people would be hyped for that than RDJ return.
 

Alexandros

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View: https://youtu.be/h-mi0r0LpXo

Anyway, yeah, there is absolutely that potential with Secret Wars as that film will very likely be the "one last ride" moment for a whole lot of characters. It might not get quite the same response as Portals now that it has been done once but then again nostalgia is a very powerful force at the box office.
 
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excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

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View: https://youtu.be/h-mi0r0LpXo

Anyway, yeah, there is absolutely that potential with Secret Wars as that film will very likely be the "one last ride" moment for a whole lot of characters. It might not get quite the same response as Portals now that it has been done once but then again nostalgia is a very powerful force at the box office.


I should have worded it better but I was really thinking predominately about how the musical score track that just draws from all of marvel music history cascading into the Avengers theme would be really cool
 

Alexandros

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Oct 26, 2017
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I should have worded it better but I was really thinking predominately about how the musical score track that just draws from all of marvel music history cascading into the Avengers theme would be really cool

Oh, that would actually be fantastic! Certainly a huge challenge for the composer but... can you imagine? Characters from all the various universes being introduced by a few notes of their iconic themes and all of them culminating in the Avengers theme? I got goosebumps just thinking about it, it's a brilliant idea.
 
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excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

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Oh, that would actually be fantastic! Certainly a huge challenge for the composer but... can you imagine? Characters from all the various universes being introduced by a few notes of their iconic themes and all of them culminating in the Avengers theme? I got goosebumps just thinking about it, it's a brilliant idea.

Yeah I invoked Portals because it would be almost by necessity a giant Portals like pan shot and I was thinking you have like a base score piece, could be war drums heavy maybe then as we pan bits of X-Men tas, Spider-Man classic 60s theme, Raimi Spider-Man, Ottman X-Men, First Class X-Men/Magneto, Garfield Spider-Man, I'd go mad deep cut and do all kinds of the other old 90s cartoons Spider-Man, Ironman, Fantastic Four, everything they can. Just weave it all in as an audio tapestry with new instrumentation, all from the same orchestra, that builds to the Avengers MCU theme.

Like again my bad for not saying all this in the op, but I was less thinking of the visual of it all as much as how Secret Wars offers a chance to do essentially a History of Marvel musical score track
 

subpar spatula

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Endgame as a movie is mediocre and a slog and also worse than Infinity War, but the portals scene is absolutely gold.
Na. Has zero buildup. They all just appear. It would be better if it was foreshadowed a bit better IE the Guardians tell the Ravagers that when the time comes they will need their help and so forth. A proper build up in LotR and the Ride of the Rohirim. That's how you build up a proper back up army appearing.
 

Mafro

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Oct 25, 2017
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Na. Has zero buildup. They all just appear. It would be better if it was foreshadowed a bit better IE the Guardians tell the Ravagers that when the time comes they will need their help and so forth. A proper build up in LotR and the Ride of the Rohirim. That's how you build up a proper back up army appearing.
Zero build up? Did you just think all of the dusted heroes were never going to return, especially during a climactic battle?
 

THErest

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Oct 25, 2017
7,170
The music? What?

Portals worked because a lot of stars aligned to make it work, the music being of considerably lower priority. It worked because Cap was standing up against impossible odds just as everyone arrived to back him up and save the universe right this time. It worked because the point of the movie was to undo the Snap. It worked because all these heroes showing up were fucking dead at the end of the last movie, we watched them all die in traumatic fashion, and then we all waited a year to see what would happen next.

Compare it to, say, Lando showing up with a fleet to fight the Sith at the end of TRoS. That was cheap, hollow, empty shit. Lando conjures up this fleet at the last minute to face a nonsensical out-of-JJ's ass threat when Leia--LEIA!--couldn't raise any help to face down just a couple of Star Destroyers before? Fuck off. Cheap shit.
 

subpar spatula

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Zero build up? Did you just think all of the dusted heroes were never going to return, especially during a climactic battle?
That isn't build up. That is then just appearing. We know why Rohan rides to Gondor. We know how they got the numbers along the way. We know what they were thinking because it is explored properly. In Endgame, they all come back from being dusted and a wizard teleports them to the fight or a portal appears. It is assumed you know why they do it because heroes versus villains, but if you break it all down it is pretty meh overall. It's a scene where nerds go, "omg omg awesome they all gonna brawl!" similar to the airport fight in Civil War. It's empty money shots.

I use LotR because that is very binary good and evil type writing as well. The difference is you actually get moments with the characters (even side ones) as to why they fight.
 

CloudWolf

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Oct 26, 2017
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Zero build up? Did you just think all of the dusted heroes were never going to return, especially during a climactic battle?
Spatula is right though, they do turn up out of nowhere with zero build-up.

Yeah, of course on a meta-level we all know that the heroes are going to show up after being dusted, they obviously are. But there is very little in way of actual build-up within the movie as to how they get there, who is going to be there, etc. All you get is, well, a scene of birds returning and Sam saying 'On your left' literally seconds before showing up.

As Spatula does in the post above, I'd also compare it to Lord of the Rings which is kinda the masterclass in these kind of 'everyone helps out climaxes'. In Return of the King you get very extensive scenes showing how the message for help gets to Rohan, you see the Rohan characters debate on whether to help, you see them ride out, gather forces, etc. We know they're coming, we understand their reasoning, we understand all the players in the field, and we know when the Gondor soldiers are on the losing end that help is on its way. And when it finally comes, it's this big climactic moment in the battle.

Meanwhile, in Endgame, you never see the other heroes until the Portal scene. We don't know how they know shit is going down at the Avengers complex, we don't know the wizards from Kamar-Taj were involved at all, Pepper Potts shows up as Rescue which nobody knew was even a thing she was doing, there's no lead up with our familiar characters getting undusted and realizing something is up, there's nothing. Not even an explanation how the joke "On your left" even worked, did Sam specify to unnamed Kamar-Taj wizard that he wanted to show up on the left of Cap? (just kidding with that final one, of course).

But like, imagine if Lord of the Rings was done that way. If you cut out all the scenes relating to Rohan, Aragorn, etc. and just have them appear at the end of the battle with massive Rohan and ghost dudes armies to save the day. That would be really weird. Now I don't think Endgame should've had extensive scenes of every hero coming to term with their return and deciding to help, but like, I dunno, one scene of Strange or Wong seeing everybody returning and using their powers to inform everyone about the battle would've helped.

It's an okay scene from a hype perspective, but from a narrative perspective it's incredibly dull writing. "And then everybody showed up to fight" isn't very interesting.
 
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Tbm24

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Oct 25, 2017
16,831
I don't think the theme for any of the cartoons belong in an MCU movie like this. They aren't connected, so it wouldn't feel earned at all beyond me saying to myself I recognize these tunes.
 

CloudWolf

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Oct 26, 2017
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I don't think the theme for any of the cartoons belong in an MCU movie like this. They aren't connected, so it wouldn't feel earned at all beyond me saying to myself I recognize these tunes.
They have already been using the X-Men TAS theme though. That's the only one of the iconic themes they have actually used for one of these movies (I don't remember if NWH used the Elfman Spider-Man theme, I don't believe so).
 

Tbm24

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Oct 25, 2017
16,831
They have already been using the X-Men TAS theme though. That's the only one of the iconic themes they have actually used for one of these movies (I don't remember if NWH used the Elfman Spider-Man theme, I don't believe so).
Right and in that specific case I'm less bothered due to the version of that character, at least visually, that they wanted to show. I don't think the MCU beyond that moment has any business trying to make me nostalgic over a theme so wholly unrelated with anything I'm watching.
 

CloudWolf

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Oct 26, 2017
15,794
Right and in that specific case I'm less bothered due to the version of that character, at least visually, that they wanted to show. I don't think the MCU beyond that moment has any business trying to make me nostalgic over a theme so wholly unrelated with anything I'm watching.
They used it as well in Ms Marvel tho.

It's like the official 'We mentioned mutants!'-theme now. I was kind of surprised they didn't also sneak it into Wakanda Forever.
 

AzerPhire

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Oct 25, 2017
1,206
Having build up to the portals scene would take away the emotion of the whole moment. Hey let's cut away from Cap facing up to Thanos' army alone to show the wizards recruiting everyone to come fight. Yeah cause that would have the same impact.
 

Bengraven

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I have no idea what you are talking about. I'm struggling to remember the Avengers theme.

You know, it's really funny is that when I watched those first two movies, I could never remember the theme. I felt like the music was completely soul-less, and I still stand by that: the score is soul-less.

But I don't know if it's the way it was arranged in the trailer for infinity war, but I suddenly remembered what the theme was after I saw that first trailer and I guess in my head it became iconic.
 

subpar spatula

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Having build up to the portals scene would take away the emotion of the whole moment. Hey let's cut away from Cap facing up to Thanos' army alone to show the wizards recruiting everyone to come fight. Yeah cause that would have the same impact.
Strange sees all the futures. He could have done that from the time her finished to Thanos appearing. Narratively, it can easily fit. They just didn't care. They are here to sell hype and toys, not a quality story. It is why critical acclaim for LotR was immensely greater even though it was 3 movies compared to 21. Like, you get more insight into who Denethor is than Thanos.
 

PeskyToaster

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Oct 27, 2017
15,323
Strange sees all the futures. He could have done that from the time her finished to Thanos appearing. Narratively, it can easily fit. They just didn't care. They are here to sell hype and toys, not a quality story. It is why critical acclaim for LotR was immensely greater even though it was 3 movies compared to 21.

it was also based on a legendary series of novels and Avengers is based on comic books lol. Quite a wide gap in literary merit. Hard to believe people still go to see these lame ass movies
 

subpar spatula

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it was also based on a legendary series of novels and Avengers is based on comic books lol. Quite a wide gap in literary merit. Hard to believe people still go to see these lame ass movies
LotR could have easily floundered. The undertaking to get what you see on the screen was not an easy ordeal.
 

MisterHero

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Oct 25, 2017
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They already ruined it by giving Patrick Stewart the cartoon theme in Doctor Strange 2.

I'm glad Ron Wasserman's getting work though!
 

Aprikurt

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Lol we still pushing the "MCU has no memorable scores" narrative all these years later? I guess it's subjective but... Damn.
 

Alexandros

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17,926
Yeah I invoked Portals because it would be almost by necessity a giant Portals like pan shot and I was thinking you have like a base score piece, could be war drums heavy maybe then as we pan bits of X-Men tas, Spider-Man classic 60s theme, Raimi Spider-Man, Ottman X-Men, First Class X-Men/Magneto, Garfield Spider-Man, I'd go mad deep cut and do all kinds of the other old 90s cartoons Spider-Man, Ironman, Fantastic Four, everything they can. Just weave it all in as an audio tapestry with new instrumentation, all from the same orchestra, that builds to the Avengers MCU theme.

Like again my bad for not saying all this in the op, but I was less thinking of the visual of it all as much as how Secret Wars offers a chance to do essentially a History of Marvel musical score track

I love it, I hope we get something close to that in the film.
 

Teusery

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Na. Has zero buildup. They all just appear. It would be better if it was foreshadowed a bit better IE the Guardians tell the Ravagers that when the time comes they will need their help and so forth. A proper build up in LotR and the Ride of the Rohirim. That's how you build up a proper back up army appearing.
I don't disagree, but rule of cool
 

THErest

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Oct 25, 2017
7,170
Spatula is right though, they do turn up out of nowhere with zero build-up.

Yeah, of course on a meta-level we all know that the heroes are going to show up after being dusted, they obviously are. But there is very little in way of actual build-up within the movie as to how they get there, who is going to be there, etc. All you get is, well, a scene of birds returning and Sam saying 'On your left' literally seconds before showing up.

As Spatula does in the post above, I'd also compare it to Lord of the Rings which is kinda the masterclass in these kind of 'everyone helps out climaxes'. In Return of the King you get very extensive scenes showing how the message for help gets to Rohan, you see the Rohan characters debate on whether to help, you see them ride out, gather forces, etc. We know they're coming, we understand their reasoning, we understand all the players in the field, and we know when the Gondor soldiers are on the losing end that help is on its way. And when it finally comes, it's this big climactic moment in the battle.

Meanwhile, in Endgame, you never see the other heroes until the Portal scene. We don't know how they know shit is going down at the Avengers complex, we don't know the wizards from Kamar-Taj were involved at all, Pepper Potts shows up as Rescue which nobody knew was even a thing she was doing, there's no lead up with our familiar characters getting undusted and realizing something is up, there's nothing. Not even an explanation how the joke "On your left" even worked, did Sam specify to unnamed Kamar-Taj wizard that he wanted to show up on the left of Cap? (just kidding with that final one, of course).

But like, imagine if Lord of the Rings was done that way. If you cut out all the scenes relating to Rohan, Aragorn, etc. and just have them appear at the end of the battle with massive Rohan and ghost dudes armies to save the day. That would be really weird. Now I don't think Endgame should've had extensive scenes of every hero coming to term with their return and deciding to help, but like, I dunno, one scene of Strange or Wong seeing everybody returning and using their powers to inform everyone about the battle would've helped.

It's an okay scene from a hype perspective, but from a narrative perspective it's incredibly dull writing. "And then everybody showed up to fight" isn't very interesting.

Firstly, again, the whole point of the movie is to bring them back. We can't see them prepping beforehand because they were dead. Secondly, we do get a hint. Hawkeye receives a call or text, I forget which, from his wife just before Thanos attacks.

Having build up to the portals scene would take away the emotion of the whole moment. Hey let's cut away from Cap facing up to Thanos' army alone to show the wizards recruiting everyone to come fight. Yeah cause that would have the same impact.

This.
 

Art_3

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Aug 30, 2022
5,089
I rewatched Endgame recently and i think it's still a really damn good movie,a great culmination of 10 years in this universe.Paul Rudd is fantastic in it.
And the dialogue between everyone just sings,the jokes feel like they are coming from the characters instead of feeling shoehorned by the writers.
Only thing i dislike is the place they set the final battle,felt like an outtake from a Snyder movie
 

Art_3

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Aug 30, 2022
5,089
Spatula is right though, they do turn up out of nowhere with zero build-up.

Yeah, of course on a meta-level we all know that the heroes are going to show up after being dusted, they obviously are. But there is very little in way of actual build-up within the movie as to how they get there, who is going to be there, etc. All you get is, well, a scene of birds returning and Sam saying 'On your left' literally seconds before showing up.

As Spatula does in the post above, I'd also compare it to Lord of the Rings which is kinda the masterclass in these kind of 'everyone helps out climaxes'. In Return of the King you get very extensive scenes showing how the message for help gets to Rohan, you see the Rohan characters debate on whether to help, you see them ride out, gather forces, etc. We know they're coming, we understand their reasoning, we understand all the players in the field, and we know when the Gondor soldiers are on the losing end that help is on its way. And when it finally comes, it's this big climactic moment in the battle.

Meanwhile, in Endgame, you never see the other heroes until the Portal scene. We don't know how they know shit is going down at the Avengers complex, we don't know the wizards from Kamar-Taj were involved at all, Pepper Potts shows up as Rescue which nobody knew was even a thing she was doing, there's no lead up with our familiar characters getting undusted and realizing something is up, there's nothing. Not even an explanation how the joke "On your left" even worked, did Sam specify to unnamed Kamar-Taj wizard that he wanted to show up on the left of Cap? (just kidding with that final one, of course).

But like, imagine if Lord of the Rings was done that way. If you cut out all the scenes relating to Rohan, Aragorn, etc. and just have them appear at the end of the battle with massive Rohan and ghost dudes armies to save the day. That would be really weird. Now I don't think Endgame should've had extensive scenes of every hero coming to term with their return and deciding to help, but like, I dunno, one scene of Strange or Wong seeing everybody returning and using their powers to inform everyone about the battle would've helped.

It's an okay scene from a hype perspective, but from a narrative perspective it's incredibly dull writing. "And then everybody showed up to fight" isn't very interesting.
Eh... i think part of why the scene is so effective is how sudden it is.fwe know the reverse snap worked when we see Hawkeye's wife calling him so in the back of our minds we have the info that supposedly everyone came back but we get so worried about Thanos beating everyone's ass that we don't really think about it.
The shock Captain America has that he's listening to a fallen friend is super effective to me.
The LOTR way is superb storytelling but i don't believe it's the only way you can do an 'army coming into battle' in movies
 
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Alexandros

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Oct 26, 2017
17,926
Eh... i think part of why the scene is so effective is how sudden it is.We know the reverse snap worked when we see Hawkeye's wife calling him so in the back of our minds we have the info that supposedly everyone came back but we get so worried about Thanos beating everyone's ass that we don't really think about it.
The shock Captain America has that he's listening to a fallen friend is super effective to me.

Well said.
 

Anth0ny

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Oct 25, 2017
47,647
Yeah RDJ and Evans returning to fight alongside Tobey and Jackman and the new generation of heroes will be that good shit
 

nekkid

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Oct 27, 2017
21,823
I thought the portals music was pretty bad tbh. Picks up at the end, but at first it's way too soft for the event.
 

JigglesBunny

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The score is the least memorable aspect of the portal scene for me. There's still no better use of music in the MCU than this incredible shit which just rips to an insane degree:
View: https://youtu.be/f_LZU7TdvWA

The fact that they didn't bring the Immigrant Song motif back in Infinity War when he touches down in Wakanda will forever be one of the biggest missed opportunities in these movies. I'm very anti-cheering in movie theaters but even I would have pumped my fist like my team just won the World Series in extra innings.
 

nekkid

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Oct 27, 2017
21,823
The score is the least memorable aspect of the portal scene for me. There's still no better use of music in the MCU than this incredible shit which just rips to an insane degree:
View: https://youtu.be/f_LZU7TdvWA

The fact that they didn't bring the Immigrant Song motif back in Infinity War when he touches down in Wakanda will forever be one of the biggest missed opportunities in these movies. I'm very anti-cheering in movie theaters but even I would have pumped my fist like my team just won the World Series in extra innings.

Feels like I'm watching a Vampire Survivor movie through that sequence lol
 

CloudWolf

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Oct 26, 2017
15,794
Eh... i think part of why the scene is so effective is how sudden it is.fwe know the reverse snap worked when we see Hawkeye's wife calling him so in the back of our minds we have the info that supposedly everyone came back but we get so worried about Thanos beating everyone's ass that we don't really think about it.
The shock Captain America has that he's listening to a fallen friend is super effective to me.
The LOTR way is superb storytelling but i don't believe it's the only way you can do an 'army coming into battle' in movies
I mean, you can still have the shock on Cap's face when he hears Sam speak. The effect of the joy on the faces of the characters in LotR isn't diminished in effect because we know the armies of Rohan were on their way.

All I'm saying that for me personally, I would have liked it if there was a little more, well, build-up towards everybody showing up at exactly the right time at exactly the right moment. Like, I watched Endgame like two or three times and those second or third time it really stood out to me how the Portals scene itself just comes out of nowhere. Perhaps, I dunno, we could've had Wong at some point mention how he will keep an eye on the situation with the forces of Kamar-Taj, so we at least know why wizards are suddenly everywhere creating portals.

I'm not saying we should've had cut-aways to everyone coming back, but something would've been nice.

And for example, having Rescue there completely falls flat because that was alluded to exactly zero times.
 

takriel

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The portals scene was actually made worse by the music. It's not that the soundtrack wasn't good, it was, but they really could have used a choir or a more epic rendition of it...