If this timeline is accurate, how does it affect the Trump/Russia collusion story?

[pramod]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-hackers-pried-clinton-campaign-emails-062809973--politics.html

Two-factor authentication may have slowed the hackers, but it didn't stop them. After repeated attempts to break into various staffers' hillaryclinton.com accounts, the hackers turned to the personal Gmail addresses. It was there on March 19 that they targeted top Clinton lieutenants — including campaign manager Robby Mook, senior adviser Jake Sullivan and political fixer Philippe Reines.

A malicious link was generated for Podesta at 11:28 a.m. Moscow time, the AP found. Documents subsequently published by WikiLeaks show that the rogue email arrived in his inbox six minutes later. The link was clicked twice.

Podesta's messages — at least 50,000 of them — were in the hackers' hands.

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If this article is accurate, then that means most of the hacking occurred during the Republican primaries, way before Trump's nomination was even assured(although he was leading at the time).

And there's also this part...

The Trump campaign had gotten a whiff of Clinton email hacking, too. According to recently unsealed court documents, former Trump foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos said that it was at an April 26 meeting at a London hotel that he was told by a professor closely connected to the Russian government that the Kremlin had obtained compromising information about Clinton.

"They have dirt on her," Papadopoulos said he was told. "They have thousands of emails."

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So what this implies is that the "collusion" if it exists, means that Russia was offering the Trump campaign dirt that they had ALREADY collected by that time. So even if Trump did agree to accept help from the Russians, is the only offense he is guilty of basically accepting information that was already stolen,...information that was probably already made available to other parties, and going to be leaked anyway? (by Wikileaks?)

I'm just trying to figure out exactly what crime can Trump be nailed on(leading to his impeachment) if this timeline is accurate?

 

[_Karooo]

He can be nailed on many things but there needs to a political climate for it. If Dems get the house, they don't even need to wait for Mueller. They can get him on other things like violating the emolument clause etc.

 

[Hiphopopotamus]

The criminal probe isn't focused on "collusion" because it's a notoriously difficult proposition to be able to determine who was thinking what, and when, and what evidence can you use to tie those things together.

Mueller is beating the bushes for financial crimes of the Trumps, hopefully to pass on to Schneiderman. Otherwise, I suspect the SC case with regards to Trump will hinge on Obstruction charges, since his own words indict him.

 

[MasterChumly]

Uh.... I guess I don't see any difference if Russia was offering stolen emails in exchange for better terms on sanctions and policies etc...... that's still impeachment worthy

If I asked someone to launder money that I had already stolen instead of planning to steal it is still a crime. Just because the money is already stolen doesn't give the other person a free for all to use it if they know

 

[Taurus Silver]

So what this implies is that the "collusion" if it exists, means that Russia was offering the Trump campaign dirt that they had ALREADY collected by that time. So even if Trump did agree to accept help from the Russians, is the only offense he is guilty of basically accepting information that was already stolen,...information that was probably already made available to other parties, and going to be leaked anyway? (by Wikileaks?)

I'm just trying to figure out exactly what crime can Trump be nailed on(leading to his impeachment) if this timeline is accurate?

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If the information was stolen and Trump received the emails, the Trump campaign I do believe had a legal and ethical obligation to notify the FBI. Al Gore's campaign notified the FBI when it received Bush's debate talking points.

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/14/u...aide-receives-then-lets-go-of-hot-potato.html

Edit: My typing sucks today

 

[Randomly Generated]

Taking stolen information from a foreign enemy is still bad, regardless of when it was stolen.

 

[blackhawk163]

I thought it was illegal just to accept foreign aide with the express purpose of disrupting and election regardless of when that information was found.

 

[pramod]

Uh.... I guess I don't see any difference if Russia was offering stolen emails in exchange for better terms on sanctions and policies etc...... that's still impeachment worthy

If I asked someone to launder money that I had already stolen instead of planning to steal it is still a crime. Just because the money is already stolen doesn't give the other person a free for all to use it if they know

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So maybe the route to impeachment would be to find out if Trump had a hand in the leaking of the emails? Like maybe Trump got the emails from the Russians, and then gave it to Wikileaks? Or Trump asked the Russians to leak the emails? Seems like finding evidence for something like that would be quite difficult.

 

[Randomly Generated]

So maybe the route to impeachment would be to find out if Trump had a hand in the leaking of the emails? Like maybe Trump got the emails from the Russians, and then gave it to Wikileaks? Or Trump asked the Russians to leak the emails? Seems like finding evidence for something like that would be quite difficult.

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That's why Mueller seems to be focusing on stuff like money laundering.

 

[rambis]

The collusion angle is mostly focused on the law preventing a campaign from getting help from a foriegn entity. I think oppo research would fall under that and the Russians even took it a step further by stealing data.

 

[Paradox House]

I feel this was known. Russia did not have some agreement with Trump. The issue was team Trump at least appears to have tried to turn this into a more formal arrangement. Russia was just stirring shit though as evidenced by a fair amount of Russian ads not about Trump but sowing division.

 

[AndyD]

So maybe the route to impeachment would be to find out if Trump had a hand in the leaking of the emails? Like maybe Trump got the emails from the Russians, and then gave it to Wikileaks? Or Trump asked the Russians to leak the emails? Seems like finding evidence for something like that would be quite difficult.

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We'll he went on TV and asked Russia to look for the missing emails. That's easy evidence.

 

[Laevateinn]

Are you more likely to offer someone a quid pro quo if they say they will also attempt to get something you're interested in or if they already have it?

We'll he went on TV and asked Russia to look for the missing emails. That's easy evidence.

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That moment was basically him going on TV and saying, "Dear Putin, I agree to your terms."

 

[MasterChumly]

So maybe the route to impeachment would be to find out if Trump had a hand in the leaking of the emails? Like maybe Trump got the emails from the Russians, and then gave it to Wikileaks? Or Trump asked the Russians to leak the emails? Seems like finding evidence for something like that would be quite difficult.

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I mean I'll be honest. It's probably a pipe dream to think there will be actual evidence they can uncover that directly proves collusion. We are not going to have a video of trump colluding with Putin behind closed doors. That's why they literally send "low level" campaign employees as to not implicate the top brass per the emails we already know about.

We already have the circumstancetial evidence but that won't prove crimes in a court of law..... only court of people public opinion.

It's far more likely to prove stuff like obstruction.

Honestly the best bet to prove some truly bad shit would be if Paul Manafort or Michael Flynn completely flipped on trump and gave us the dirt.

 

[jroc74]

I feel this was known. Russia did not have some agreement with Trump. The issue was team Trump at least appears to have tried to turn this into a more formal arrangement. Russia was just stirring shit though as evidenced by a fair amount of Russian ads not about Trump but sowing division.

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Yeah, to me even if they didn't initiate it, they may have gotten greedy and it may have turned into a do this for us we do this for u deal.

IMO that goes beyond opposition research.

 

[Deleted member 19003]

Russia stole the emails, contacted his campaign, and then a few months later Trumps camp mysteriously removes anti-russian policy regarding the Ukraine from the GOP platform. Pretty interesting coincidence there.

 

[thefit]

It's a foreign country offering to help interfere in a US election wich is very illegal the Trump team at that moment should have informed the authorities but instead they plotted with Russian agents and helped in the disinformation campaign essentially becoming Russian agents and that is very, very bad.

 

[MasterChumly]

I feel this was known. Russia did not have some agreement with Trump. The issue was team Trump at least appears to have tried to turn this into a more formal arrangement. Russia was just stirring shit though as evidenced by a fair amount of Russian ads not about Trump but sowing division.

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Actually it's the exact opposite. We have overwhelming evidence that Russia was helping trump. Just because they had an ad for black lives matter doesn't mean they were only trying to sow division. That wasnt even close to their main goal of getting trump elected.

The problem is we currently don't have solid evidence of a formal arrrangment but a shit ton of smoke with questionable emails, visits indicating they potentially did do something like that.

 

[Mehr]

The emails will be a minor sideshow to what Trumps charged with when its all said and done but ironically (but her emails) they've given Mueller a thread to pull which goes all they way through his campaign team

 

[Deranged Hermit]

Collusion most likely occurred by coordinating with Russia on when to release the emails (such as the Podesta leaks starting literally an hour after the Access Hollywood tape came out) and which voting districts to target with trolling/Russian ads/Russian bots.

 

[jroc74]

Y'all bring up good points about ways to collude.

And it's maddening how anyone could even begin to think it compares to Hillary and what they say is her colluding.

It's wild because it involves politics, you would think level headedness would be involved in arguments.

 

[tlhm94]

There is actually a whole bunch of laws against what is being alleged. Even in the scenario where Trump's team 'merely' solicited and received and coordinated the weaponization of stolen emails that were a byproduct of a cyber attack on the United States. Collusion is just being used as the polite terminology for treason and conspiracy.

 

[Squarehard]

This came up awhile back when Jr. was in hot water the first time, and the conclusion was that it wasn't what they actually got that broke the law, it was the intent that's the focus.

Just like the idea of a sting, it's not what is actually going to happen, but what the person is actually intending to do that matters here.

 

[avaya]

Email are just a small part.

Cambridge Analytica working with FSB front wikileaks to manage the disclosure and dissemination of stolen then edited emails
Cambridge Analytica working with the Russian's to target social media ads
Money laundering within the Trump Organisation
Tax Evasion within the Trump Organisation
Obstruction of Justice (multiple counts).
Quid pro quo for accepting Russian helps and sudden change in Republican platform over Ukraine

The dossier has proven to be remarkably accurate. It was compiled by one the finest secret agents the UK has, you would have to be a fool to think MI6 hires morons.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Email are just a small part.

Cambridge Analytica working with FSB front wikileaks to manage the disclosure and dissemination of stolen then edited emails
Cambridge Analytica working with the Russian's to target social media ads
Money laundering within the Trump Organisation
Tax Evasion within the Trump Organisation
Obstruction of Justice (multiple counts).
Quid pro quo for accepting Russian helps and sudden change in Republican platform over Ukraine

The dossier has proven to be remarkably accurate. It was compiled by one the finest secret agents the UK has, you would have to be a fool to think MI6 hires morons.

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This. There's potentially alot of criminality to unpack beyond emails. Hell NPR even highlights why Trump SoHo is of interest to Muller regarding Trump and associates relationships to Russian criminality

 

[Airing of Grievances]

Your timeline is missing the DNC hacking, which occurred earlier.

 

[hendersonhank]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-hackers-pried-clinton-campaign-emails-062809973--politics.html



If this article is accurate, then that means most of the hacking occurred during the Republican primaries, way before Trump's nomination was even assured(although he was leading at the time).

And there's also this part...



So what this implies is that the "collusion" if it exists, means that Russia was offering the Trump campaign dirt that they had ALREADY collected by that time. So even if Trump did agree to accept help from the Russians, is the only offense he is guilty of basically accepting information that was already stolen,...information that was probably already made available to other parties, and going to be leaked anyway? (by Wikileaks?)

I'm just trying to figure out exactly what crime can Trump be nailed on(leading to his impeachment) if this timeline is accurate?

Click to shrink...

If Trump knew Russia had stolen emails, and not only did not inform authorities, even once the news leaked, but went on tv every chance he could -- including as President -- to insist that he didn't believe Russians had anything to do with the hacks, then fired Comey, then did everything possible to make the investigation close -- then I think you've got a really good case for obstruction of justice.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

IIRC Trump was pretty inevitable as the nominee come March.

 

[Vic_Viper]

The Russians didnt care about Trump until he became the Republican nominee. Their goal was to do whatever it took to ensure Hilary lost the election. They were going to help anyone who was running against Hilary, no matter who they were, whether they liked it or not.

Trump was just dumb enough to accept the help and actively engage with the Russians.

 

[avaya]

The Russians didnt care about Trump until he became the Republican nominee. Their goal was to do whatever it took to ensure Hilary lost the election. They were going to help anyone who was running against Hilary, no matter who they were, whether they liked it or not.

Trump was just dumb enough to accept the help and actively engage with the Russians.

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Jill Stein....

 

[LL_Decitrig]

So what this implies is that the "collusion" if it exists, means that Russia was offering the Trump campaign dirt that they had ALREADY collected by that time.

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That is in fact the working hypothesis. There has never been any suggestion that the Trump campaign might have subcontracted hacking to be carried out by Russian agents. The crimes here would be:

1. Concealing evidence of an attempt by a foreign government to influence the result of the election.

2. Being aware of such an attempt, colluding with it in order to help it to succeed.

The first crime seems to have been established, if Papadopoulos's evidence stands up in court. The second crime may or may not rebound on certain members of the Trump campaign, possibly including Trump himself.

 

[Trouble]

The thing he is probably most scared of coming out is all the money laundering he did for the Russian mob over the years via his casinos.

 

[Netherscourge]

It's more about illegal deals and meddling.

Russia offering dirt in exchange for dropping sanctions, for example. Or offering Trump real estate licenses in Russia. Stuff like that.

The mere fact that Russia assisted their candidate of choice is illegal.

The GoP call it "opposition research," but it's illegal when a foreign government is doing it for you.

 

[Simon Belmont]

Jill Stein....

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Remember when people gave her a bunch of money after it was established that she was friendly with the Russians?

 

[avaya]

Remember when people gave her a bunch of money after it was established that she was friendly with the Russians?

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She's fully funded for another attempt at pulling apart the Dem coalition for 2020. Sane people do not go for dinner with Putin. She is either naive or implicated. I am heavily trending towards implicated, in any case I think Mueller, if given time will find out the truth, whatever it is.

 

[Z Y]

This has pretty much known from day one. Trump campaign didn't orchestrate the hacks. But they likely were invloved in their subsequent releases.

Still collusion and conspiracy.

 

[Marqroq]

If this is true timeline wise then did Russia contact other campaigns like Rubio and Cruz? Did those campaigns then notify the FBI?

 

[NotGreatBob]

I don't think anyone credible has ever suspected that the DNC hacks specifically were orchestrated at the Trump campaign's behest.

The general working theory, from what I've read, is that Russia did it themselves and later reached out to the Trump campaign - after which coordination of the hacked emails' release might have occurred between the two.

 

[LL_Decitrig]

If this is true timeline wise then did Russia contact other campaigns like Rubio and Cruz? Did those campaigns then notify the FBI?

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It might be a good idea for staffers on those campaigns to come forward now rather than later, if they're aware of any such approach.

Papadopoulos was originally with the Carson campaign, where he was a foreign policy consultant between December 2015 and February 2016, shortly before Carson abandoned his campaign.

 

[FRANKEINSTEIN]

We'll he went on TV and asked Russia to look for the missing emails. That's easy evidence.

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Oh wow. Somehow I completely forgot about that. Just shows you how much shit has happened since then.

 

[pramod]

We'll he went on TV and asked Russia to look for the missing emails. That's easy evidence.

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Yeah that's what confuses the heck out of me. In front of the whole world at his campaign rally, he asked the Russians to help release "dirt" on Hillary. If that is not intent to collude or accept foreign help, then what else is? Why was he not prosecuted, his candidacy immediately disqualified, at that point? What other evidence is needed to actually prove intent?

Anyway thanks for all the responses in this thread. This collusion story seems very complex and hard to follow. I've always thought the whole collusion angle was that Trump actually somehow helped organized the hacking itself. Now I realize the whole case is a lot more muddier and undefined and could go in many possible directions. Maybe that's why this investigation has been taking so long.

 

[hendersonhank]

Yeah that's what confuses the heck out of me. In front of the whole world at his campaign rally, he asked the Russians to help release "dirt" on Hillary. If that is not intent to collude or accept foreign help, then what else is? Why was he not prosecuted, his candidacy immediately disqualified, at that point? What other evidence is needed to actually prove intent?
.

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It was a "joke".

 

[Doc Laserstein]

Now I realize the whole case is a lot more muddier and undefined and could go in many possible directions. Maybe that's why this investigation has been taking so long.

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Small correction, but in relative terms this investigation has moved at breakneck speed.