I'm sad that we didn't make more noise about Tidus's face in the FFX HD Remaster.

Slaythe · Jun 5, 2020

Dust said:
What I loved about FF8 is that cast looks actually mid 20, they just have slapped teenager ages on them.
I vastly prefer just the PC's HD mod to remaster.

The HD mod still has the horrendous split geometry of the original.

Nice screenshots but it looks god awful in the real game most of the time.

DiipuSurotu · Jun 5, 2020

Dust said:
What I loved about FF8 is that cast looks actually mid 20, they just have slapped teenager ages on them.
I vastly prefer just the PC's HD mod to remaster.

What's with his collar bones

And what's with the Alexandra Daddario eyes

super moustique · Jun 5, 2020

Rotobit said:
But then you have the Collection of Mana, which is extremely faithful and even had a full-on new localization

Pretty sure that was done by M2 so no surprise there.

Rotobit said:
and the Romancing SaGa ports are great too, with perfect pixels and widescreen support.

It's very likely because Akitoshi Kawazu is still working at Square Enix and won't let anyone fuck up on those games lol

thepenguin55 · Jun 5, 2020

Ryuhza said:
Faces are hard

Windrunner said:
Virtuos did comparable damage to the Batman remasters too. They're crap at what they do when allowed artistic license by publishers.

So this is a little bit of a different thing IMO. The choices made with the Arkham games were understandably unpopular but I personally appreciated them (with Arkham Asylum in particular) because it made the cutscenes look more consistent with the game itself. Post PS2 gen I've grown to really dislike when cutscenes and gameplay are of two very distinct visual fidelities or styles as there's little reason to do that these days and I think it creates a weird disconnect between cutscenes and gameplay.

The cutscenes being redone to run in real-time makes them more scalable. The unfortunate aspect of them upgrading Asylum & City to UE4 and then redoing all the cutscenes to be real-time is that they didn't seem to give much consideration to how the new lighting system would impact the lighting and shadows in cutscenes. I don't think the reaction to the Return to Arkham collection would've been what it was had they tweaked the lighting and shadows in cutscenes to be more in line with the original releases.

The logic behind my thinking is that:
1. I'm pretty sure when the Arkham collection came out it was pointed out by someone that at least some of the facial definition on Batman in OG Arkham Asylum's cutscenes does exist on the in game model's face but Virtuoso didn't light the cutscenes in a way that brought that detail out. I could be wrong about that but I don't think I'm pulling that out of my ass...
2. Assassin's Creed 3 remastered also featured a new lighting system which similarly had a negative impact on the cutscenes but the devs later pushed out a patch that fixed the cutscene lighting. So the cutscenes just looked sharper.

Slacker247 · Jun 5, 2020

FFX HD faces are terrible. Loads of people complained even then but it may have got muddied with the OST changes too. Personally I didn't even mind the new OST, some tracks are definitely better in the original, but some aren't either. But the new faces and factually worse!

Haven't played the VIII remaster but it looks fine. It actually looks like what I remember in my mind (but obviously it didn't). I guess there are other issues outside of that, but even then I doubt they too big a deal for me personally.

Meows · Jun 5, 2020

I love a lot of the songs in the new soundtrack, the biggest problem with it is that it didn't initially come with the choice to use the original soundtrack as well, because a lot of the songs are very different (both Besaids). Some songs like Yuna's Determination became really good.

Dinjooh · Jun 5, 2020

Slaythe said:
I can't find the scene of the first picture (thought it was on the boat but wasn't), it never looked this bad though.

That being said while looking through all the cutscenes in the game I found this gem that I had to turn into a gif :

While I think they really fucked up Wander, at least you see his face in cutscenes like 4 times through the whole game lol.

This is an issue you can't ignore in FFX. It's literally in your face (hah) the whole time.

You don't have to play FFX HD for long, or even hold the original in high regard to see the difference in every single scene. It's very, very noticeable. If it was just different I guess It'd be fine, but it's noticeably worse, across the board. Faces lack the same emotion they had in the original.

I play through the game about once a year, and I've had to pause the game at several occasions when someone else were hanging out at my place and show them how he is actually supposed to look, because whatever they threw in the HD version isn't him.

Hugare · Jun 5, 2020

Ryuhza said:
Faces are hard

GLAVONAK said:
Tidus? Yuna's the real tragedy

all the emotion in her face in this scene is just gone :(

thank god they didn't alter the faces for XII

What do they have in common?

Both "remasters" were made by Virtuos

They are the reasons why I try to stay away from their remasters

metalmonstar · Jun 5, 2020

I know some people may not have noticed but to say it doesn't matter is just wrong. The weight of a lot of cut scenes are greatly diminished by the poor face models and animation. It isn't even a small complaint considering the game has tons of cutscenes and its narrative is a huge part of the game.

JoeNut · Jun 5, 2020

Lmao I never saw this, tidus and yuna both look horrible

Tornak · Jun 5, 2020

Already mentioned, but yeah, FF XII TZA is damn great in about every aspect.

Of course, OG XII was already a gorgeous game (love the kind of painted-in look the characters have, especially in the faces. Really suits their concept art and the PS2 limitations). And they gave Vaan non-insect abs!

Dust said:
What I loved about FF8 is that cast looks actually mid 20, they just have slapped teenager ages on them.
I vastly prefer just the PC's HD mod to remaster.

Exactly. Them being in their 20s suits them much better than them being 17 (or the incredibly ancient 18 years of age of Quistis!) considering their designs and their profession (although I guess there's a point in the game about child soldiers).

I too prefer that mod even if it's not perfect. At least it keeps the puffiness of his clothes, the hair colour and style.

Slaythe · Jun 6, 2020

Tornak said:
Already mentioned, but yeah, FF XII TZA is damn great in about every aspect.

Of course, OG XII was already a gorgeous game (love the kind of painted-in look the characters have, especially in the faces. Really suits their concept art and the PS2 limitations). And they gave Vaan non-insect abs!

Exactly. Them being in their 20s suits them much better than them being 17 (or the incredibly ancient 18 years of age of Quistis!) considering their designs and their profession (although I guess there's a point in the game about child soldiers).

I too prefer that mod even if it's not perfect. At least it keeps the puffiness of his clothes, the hair colour and style.

The face is awful and the mod is still using the block geometry of the original which is terrible all around.

I'm not a fan of the new Squall hair but the mod is a joke in comparison. Honestly.

AgeEighty · Jun 6, 2020

There's basically a slow march on at S-E to replace the default models of every one of their Final Fantasy heroes with versions closer to the Dissidia ones. It sucks because the Dissidia models are like pale-eyed bishonen dolls each and every one.

I mean, look what they did to my boy:

Kind of amazed the remastered FFIX doesn't make him look like that, except that it would've required more effort.

Slaythe · Jun 6, 2020

AgeEighty said:
There's basically a slow march on at S-E to replace the default models of every one of their Final Fantasy heroes with versions closer to the Dissidia ones. It sucks because the Dissidia models are like pale-eyed bishonen dolls each and every one.

I mean, look what they did to my boy:

Kind of amazed the remastered FFIX doesn't make him look like that, except that it would've required more effort.

Tidus looks nothing like his dissidia counter part.

In Dissidia he has darker skin tone and looks like his FFX CGI model.

the fuck is this

Speaking of which, people whining about Squall's current design in Dissidia are kind of a joke.

The PSP had issues but current Squall looks like a very reasonable mix of his old and new designs.

petermarinus · Jun 6, 2020

Console remasters often take too much inspiration from George Lucas, in that they try to fix what is not even broken. Leading to a slightly worse product. The FF remasters are no exception. I'd rather mess with PCSX2 again then have to look at the remaster faces

Bunga · Jun 6, 2020

I honestly didn't notice this but it had been a long time since I'd played the original and I played the remaster on Vita rather than PS4 so maybe it was less noticeable on the small screen?

TheModestGun · Jun 6, 2020

Asbsand said:
No. 1 reason why the potentially upcoming Demon's Souls remake has me lukewarm already.

Lol this is so over the top.

Shadow of the Colossus remake looks absolutely amazing, and under normal circumstances, you'd almost never be viewing the game like this.

most situations his face looks totally fine. This gif is worst case scenario.

runlikehell · Jun 6, 2020

The faces aren't that bad, the original PS3 OST rearrangements were awful and I'm glad those were patched.

Slaythe · Jun 6, 2020

Jawmuncher my dude, can you fix the typo in the title please (made => make) ? My OCD kills me. Thank you in advance.

runlikehell said:
The faces aren't that bad

not that bad lol

Laxoon · Jun 6, 2020

I already don't like the game, and I would've given it a try, but what they did to the character models is so fuckin bad I just can't. Even as a hater I recognize how big of a deal the graphics, in PARTICULAR the facial graphics were at that time. Super memorable to me.

Corrupt said:
There's a mod to remedy it for the PC version but I'm not sure how it holds up compared to the original model

Tidus Old Face HD by RUZ

This is a retexture of new new disgusting version of Tidus.The main file is based on "Tidus HD Re-Texture 8K and 4K CDAMJC", I changed only the face and some shadows, so you can play wi

www.nexusmods.com

Damn and I was gonna say the game doesn't seem moddable because I've never seen mods that went in and did this. I think even with glitches this is worth it for me to at least try, I'd rather have sometimes glitchy/incorrect than fugly at all times.

Deleted member 4262 · Jun 6, 2020

Zidane in Dissidia is an even bigger sin. Doesn't even look like him. I think Square has ruined a lot of their classic character designs in recent years.

Slaythe · Jun 6, 2020

Laxoon said:
Zidane in Dissidia is an even bigger sin. Doesn't even look like him. I think Square has ruined a lot of their classic character designs in recent years.

It is, in fact, not anywhere as bad as what they did to Tidus, no.

It's a spin off game, and the model looks good in a vacuum, it's just very different. He still kinda looks like David Bowie.

Just very "anime" now. Is it a great translation of his OG design ? No. But that's nothing compared to what happened to FFX.

FFX HD Tidus looks like dog shit on top of being different, it's his main game that is now the default version sold everywhere, and you have to stare at it for literally 15 hours of cutscenes.

Stef · Jun 6, 2020

Heh, that' a bad job actually.

(still better than what they did with Shadow of the Colossus...)

I wonder why those models have been changed that much.

Asbsand · Jun 6, 2020

TheModestGun said:
Shadow of the Colossus remake looks absolutely amazing, and under normal circumstances, you'd almost never be viewing the game like this.

I really struggled to accept the graphical improvements once I started looking at his face. To me PS2 version or PS3 version had a more unified look because the face didn't look a generation behind and like it was made out of plastic.

I also think BluePoint made the face animations in Uncharted look worse. Clearly they are struggling with faces.

jett · Jun 6, 2020

Slaythe said:
Speaking of which, people whining about Squall's current design in Dissidia are kind of a joke.

I don't know who this is but it sure doesn't look like Squall.

Aleh · Jun 6, 2020

AgeEighty said:
There's basically a slow march on at S-E to replace the default models of every one of their Final Fantasy heroes with versions closer to the Dissidia ones. It sucks because the Dissidia models are like pale-eyed bishonen dolls each and every one.

I mean, look what they did to my boy:

Kind of amazed the remastered FFIX doesn't make him look like that, except that it would've required more effort.

This is why I don't want them to remake 9, if they pulled something like this my heart couldn't take it

Slaythe · Jun 6, 2020

Aleh said:
This is why I don't want them to remake 9, if they pulled something like this my heart couldn't take it

???

Why would they remake 9 ? It's literally the FF that has aged the best. It's flawless and needs nothing new.
(I mean the modded PC version is perfect)

Aleh · Jun 6, 2020

Slaythe said:
???

Why would they remake 9 ? It's literally the FF that has aged the best. It's flawless and needs nothing new.
(I mean the modded PC version is perfect)

I agree tho

Warrior of Light · Jun 6, 2020

Slaythe said:
the fuck is this

Like many other images posted in this thread, it's not a screenshot from the actual remaster. People keep posting these early HD remaster screenshots which ended up not being representative of the final product at all.

I personally think Tidus's face in the actual remaster looks a lot closer to his CGI model and Nomura's artwork. Even if the colours are a bit oversaturated. The PS2 face model looks almost Western. Same goes for Yuna.

Modi · Jun 6, 2020

Slaythe said:
Speaking of which, people whining about Squall's current design in Dissidia are kind of a joke.

This is best Squall after the FF8 (1999)

Deleted member 4262 · Jun 6, 2020

Slaythe said:
It is, in fact, not anywhere as bad as what they did to Tidus, no.

Well, I think it is. Both are bad tho.

Warrior of Light · Jun 6, 2020

I'm sure many people here knew this already, but FFX has like 2-3 different face models for each of the main characters; low/mid and high quality depending on how important (and cinematic) the cutscene is.

The low and mid quality face models are vast improvements all around. Here's a decent comparison of that upgrade:

As for the high quality face model, this is most likely the look they were going for:

Compare it with footage from the actual PS3 release (and not the botched press kit images):

You really can't argue the left image looks closer to the CGI. I'm not saying they couldn't have done a better job, or that it's wrong to prefer the PS2 face. But I feel like the intention behind the change is pretty clear and makes sense.

Slaythe · Jun 6, 2020

Warrior of Light said:
Like many other images posted in this thread, it's not a screenshot from the actual remaster. People keep posting these early HD remaster screenshots which ended up not being representative of the final product at all.

I personally think Tidus's face in the actual remaster looks a lot closer to his CGI model and Nomura's artwork. Even if the colours are a bit oversaturated. The PS2 face model looks almost Western. Same goes for Yuna.

His CGI model is drop dead gorgeous.

His HD version is ugly.

And the majority of screenshots I posted are from the game itself (taken from playthroughs on youtube). This one was from google image, I stand corrected.

The retail version is so much better.

Also I finally found the fucking scene. You know why I missed it ? It's because of how UGLY they made it look.

retail vs ps2

And also the eyes glitch out in EVERY SIGNLE CUTSCENE in the remaster whenever they move their eyes, the textures stretch not properly because the geometry doesn't align accordingly. That's also why the mods themselves keep glitching.

AuthenticM I found the scene randomly bro, I was like "no way .. is that ???"

Flon · Jun 6, 2020

I wasn't too familiar with the PS2 original and yet many scenes in the remaster just looked wrong to me. It's like the model wasn't behaving correctly with the animations resulting in very awkward faces that probably looked like genuine emotion on his original model. Even the opening scene where he looks off into the distance just seemed unintended.

I played the game on Vita which definitely didn't help either.

Warrior of Light · Jun 6, 2020

Slaythe said:
His HD version is ugly.

Agree to disagree then. The low/mid quality face is what you'll be looking at throughout most of the game though, and I'd argue it's a vast improvement (see the comparison I posted above).

I grew up with the PS2 version, but it always bugged me how Tidus and Yuna looked Asian in the CGI cutscenes, yet not at all in-game. The HD remaster isn't perfect, but to me it's definitely an improvement overall. You can certainly take just as many bad screenshots with the original PS2 high quality model though, but it'd be pointless for me to counter with that as in the end it boils down to a matter of preference. Like I said, we can agree to disagree. It's fine.

Slaythe · Jun 6, 2020

Warrior of Light said:
Agree to disagree then. The low/mid quality face is what you'll be looking at throughout most of the game though, and I'd argue it's a vast improvement (see the comparison I posted above).

I grew up with the PS2 version, but it always bugged me how Tidus and Yuna looked Asian in the CGI cutscenes, yet not at all in-game. The HD remaster isn't perfect, but to me it's definitely an improvement overall. You can certainly take just as many bad screenshots with the original PS2 high quality model though, but it'd be pointless for me to counter with that as in the end it boils down to a matter of preference. Like I said, we can agree to disagree. It's fine.

I don't think it's a vast improvement. The polygons have improved but he looks ugly.

I actually love the low poly ps2 Tidus. I prefer it over his high poly one in fact.

As for the rest, this isn't really about preference (which is up to everybody), they actively destroyed facial animations on top of the design change.

You speak of bad screenshots, do you really wanna compare how they look in motion ? Cause I don't think you're gonna like the result.

You're also ignoring all the visual glitches they introduced with those models.

And I'm not sure that I would call the HD Tidus "asian". And his CGI model is drop dead gorgeous so I have trouble understanding how that transition is somehow less jarring now that he has dead eyes, a chubby face and a flat nose.

AuthenticM · Jun 6, 2020

Slaythe said:
And also the eyes glitch out in EVERY SIGNLE CUTSCENE in the remaster whenever they move their eyes, the textures stretch not properly because the geometry doesn't align accordingly. That's also why the mods themselves keep glitching.

@AuthenticM I found the scene randomly bro, I was like "no way .. is that ???"

lol that's weird.

I'd be down for a more thorough remaster à la Shadow of the Colossus PS4. I think FFX is popular enough that I could see Square doing it during the course of the next generation.

Slaythe · Jun 6, 2020

For science's sake, I merged both old and new model to see what it would be like.

And I think it would be a good meeting point.

mieumieu · Jun 6, 2020

I'm not going to break NDA here but blaming tidus face on virtuos is not in line with what actually happened. That's all I'm going to say.

itsaziz · Jun 6, 2020

Yuna's face is less chubby but it definetly loses some character...mind you, I played the remaster on the Vita so I don't think it was that bad.

Slaythe · Jun 6, 2020

mieumieu said:
I'm not going to break NDA here but blaming tidus face on virtuos is not in line with what actually happened. That's all I'm going to say.

It wasn't on them.

Square greenlit this thing and never said anything about the subpar quality itself + the destruction of facial animations.

That's on them, whoever ended up handling the actual models and port of the cutscenes isn't relevant really.

But I guess people blamed Virtuous because of the Batman debacle.

Square botched all of their remasters until FF12 so there is no need to look much further.

itsaziz said:
Yuna's face is less chubby but it definetly loses some character...mind you, I played the remaster on the Vita so I don't think it was that bad.

She lost her soul as well.

pleaseinsertdisctwo · Jun 6, 2020

Every time I have to see Yuna's in-game face in my current playthrough I get annoyed

it's so ugly and lacking in any emotion

DiipuSurotu · Jun 6, 2020

These aren't Yuna and Tidus

These are Whisper Summona and Whisper Blitzbum

Deleted member 49535 · Jun 6, 2020

It's the reason I didn't buy it. It's not just Tidus though, the entire cast looks off and some of the animations are worse than the ps2 ones for whatever reason.

Steiner_Zi · Jun 6, 2020

Thank god the FF7 Remake faces and designs were phenomenal.

Warrior of Light · Jun 6, 2020

Steiner_Zi said:
Thank god the FF7 Remake faces and designs were phenomenal.

Eh, they're still sticking with bishie Reno.

Belmont · Jun 6, 2020

I never got around to playing these but always intended to one day. This kind of makes me want to play the originals though. I know the international versions of X and X-2 have English voice acting, but is the extra content included in those versions also dubbed in English?

Slaythe · Jun 6, 2020

Belmont said:
I never got around to playing these but always intended to one day. This kind of makes me want to play the originals though. I know the international versions of X and X-2 have English voice acting, but is the extra content included in those versions also dubbed in English?

Yes. (or it was silent to begin with)

DiipuSurotu · Jun 6, 2020

The international version of X is basically the European version of X but with Japanese text and 60 Hz

Belmont · Jun 6, 2020

Slaythe said:
Yes. (or it was silent to begin with)

DiipuSurotu said:
The international version of X is basically the European version of X but with Japanese text and 60 Hz

Thanks for the info. I'll maybe have to track those down.

I'm sad that we didn't make more noise about Tidus's face in the FFX HD Remaster.

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