I never said or implied you advocated voting republican? That's an actual strawman. And no, lol, it is insanely, unbelievably disingenuous to "both sides" voter disenfranchisment when one party is party is putting up hurdles like Voter ID laws, ending vote by mail and early voting, etc, etc. You realize that a populist candidate is realistically never going to win with those hurdles in place, right?
There are two candidates, Biden and Trump. Either you support the status quo or you choose to support change. It's really pretty simple. If you or somebody is in a district with literally no chance of Trump winning I guess I get the protest vote, but with the stakes so high why even risk it? Trump is genuinely evil and is destroying our country. Choosing to support the option that removes him from office should supersede any moral reservations somebody has.
That's assuming a good faith argument.
I just can't consider everything Trump has done and said and sympathize with your stance, sorry.
One party actively shuts down polling locations in areas where minorities/Democratic voters live, purges voter rolls in elections they're up for election in, and are actively fighting expansion to absentee ballot applications in the middle of a fucking pandemic. The party that constantly chants "voter fraud" is the party that's overwhelmingly guilty of said action.
Voting blue no matter who should be common sense when you realize that one of the two viable parties literally stands for nothing. Everything beyond that is up to the electorate to participate in the system. Run for election if our electorate is just too moderate for you, join the fucking club as someone that lives In a college town in blood red TN. This country is shit, news at 11.
The MLK Jr. quotes to make your case for not voting for Biden, *chefs kiss*
There are more than two candidates. There is a green party, and you can also write in any candidate of your choice.
"Joe Biden to rich donors: "Nothing would fundamentally change" if he's elected"
Biden to rich donors: "Nothing will fundamentally change"
Along with praise for the "civility" of racists, Biden assures donors "no one's standard of living will change"
There are more than two candidates. There is a green party, and you can also write in any candidate of your choice.
"Joe Biden to rich donors: "Nothing would fundamentally change" if he's elected"
Biden to rich donors: "Nothing will fundamentally change"
Along with praise for the "civility" of racists, Biden assures donors "no one's standard of living will change"www.salon.com
Surely you can't be THIS naive. Either Donald Trump or Joe Biden WILL be elected president. You are lying to yourself if you think there is any other option. So if you aren't voting for Biden, you are saying making a moral stance is more important that preventing the worst president in our history from being re-elected. It is that simple.
Agreed. I choose not to legitimize it by voting. The lower the voter turnout, the better imho. Eventually we'll reach a point where people will point to that and say, "wtf, only 10% of the population votes for president? And oh shit, it's the richest 10%? We need to do something about this!"
I wish we could all live in metropolitan cities within solid blue states, alas. Congrats on the privilege though.
That's never going to happen. There's not reason to believe voting would ever drop off that much.
I like how you ignored my post and cropped out the stuff in lush's post about how you are clearly wrong about voter disenfranchisement.
Definitely unimpressed with Biden (would've liked Bernie or Warren), but there is absolutely zero question in my mind that he has my vote. Anyone who plays the 'Both Sides' card between him and drumpf... I don't even. The idea of allowing the drumpf to continue is horrific.
oh, and we live in a two-party system btw. Shit is awful and shamefully outdated, but it's the situation we're in. At the very least, we should try to nudge things in the direction of positive change.
oh, and we live in a two-party system btw. Shit is awful and shamefully outdated, but it's the situation we're in. At the very least, we should try to nudge things in the direction of positive change.
It's not like a light switch that can be turned on and off. It's existed for generations. The difference is that the Donald Trump's of the world empower white supremacy and systematic racism. Any hope of it going away or paving a brighter future for humanity starts by removing the people in power that actively strengthen it, and would continue to do so.
Oh God.
Oh my fucking God. This is absolutely delusional. Even if the voter turnout could drop that low (it won't), the people in power would do anything to keep it that way. Enjoy your fairy tale.
For the record, I don't think Biden has any chance of beating Trump either way. The centrist democrat has never fared well in recent history.
No one who actually understands how insanely good Biden's turnout and demographic numbers during the primary were would say that. He is, based on actual votes, an insanely well-positioned candidate.
I guess that's true if we ignore 2018 and the fact that a centrist Democrat just crushed a populist Democrat in the primaries.For the record, I don't think Biden has any chance of beating Trump either way. The centrist democrat has never fared well in recent history.
So what's your plan for Congress?
In fact what's your plan in general for helping getting M4A passed? It's obviously not with your right to vote, so what else do you do?
For the record, I don't think Biden has any chance of beating Trump either way. The centrist democrat has never fared well in recent history.
Kerry was the left-flank of the Democratic senate
Gore was boring, but his policy is not centrist. On the environment, Gore was far ahead of his colleagues. When elected, Clinton was considered a liberal-progressive candidate.
Hillary Clinton was more to the center of course, as was Obama in two terms, so that image and point ... I dunno.
When did I ever say the word "polls?"
Biden is a much stronger candidate that Hillary ever was, again based on actual data.
As Trump flails doing nothing but crying on Twitter and desperately feeding red meat to his base in the middle of a fucking pandemic that he denies as a hoax. Republicans have full on moved on to the burn it all down stage of their reign with Senate R's already suggesting senior judges step down so they can be backfilled. The writing is on the fucking wall.
Love to discount all polling/primary performances to fit my nihilistic world view.
For the record, I don't think Biden has any chance of beating Trump either way. The centrist democrat has never fared well in recent history.
In this reality, we seem to forget that Obama WAS the centrist candidate from the very start.
You can't take anything for granted. Go phone bank for Biden and get the word out instead of telling people on the internet that Biden's gonna win.
The problems currently happening have been around forever and haven't stopped regardless of which party is in control of the highest branches of government.
The problems currently happening have been around forever and haven't stopped regardless of which party is in control of the highest branches of government.
And Clinton/Gore won the popular vote but lost in the EC.
Duverger's Law. In a FPTP system there are two candidates.
I want more viable parties as much as anyone but that isn't the choice we have in November.
so... if you don't vote biden (well, there's really no other choice) and america continues on the alt right trumpian nazi mess...
there's nothing the world can do to save america for years while this poison continues to percolate in your society..
my thoughts from sydney Australia.
there's nothing the world can do to save america for years while this poison continues to percolate in your society..
my thoughts from sydney Australia.
Never ceases to amazes me how so-called Progressives always want to take their ball and go home because their preferred candidate didn't win the nom.
Because quitting when things don't go your way will CERTAINLY help the Progressive Movement and sway more people to your side...
POLLS SHOWED THAT HILLARY WOULD WIN! THEY MEAN SHIT!
*Points to how every poll was within their margin of error*
SHUT UP! THEY'RE WRONG AND YOURE AN IDIOT FOR BRINGING THEM UP!
Because quitting when things don't go your way will CERTAINLY help the Progressive Movement and sway more people to your side...
POLLS SHOWED THAT HILLARY WOULD WIN! THEY MEAN SHIT!
*Points to how every poll was within their margin of error*
SHUT UP! THEY'RE WRONG AND YOURE AN IDIOT FOR BRINGING THEM UP!
Community organization and solidarity. A movement has to be built from the bottom up, what's it going to take for you folks to realize this top-down bullshit doesn't work, and hasn't worked for the past 50 years?
A voice of reason has arrived in the thread. We need a labor MOVEMENT, but I'd settle for a legitimate labor party as a consolation prize.
There is a party straight up devoted to that and they're quite active during these trying times at that.
When was the last time a third party put up a candidate that could be taken seriously?
FWIW you're completely right about this part at least. More progressives are recognizing that they need to win local offices. School boards matter!
But, again, the answer isn't letting Trump and his cronies win another term BECAUSE THEY WILL DO EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO CRUSH YOUR MOVEMENT. A progressive movement at least has a chance to grow under centrist Democrat rule.
Community organization and solidarity. A movement has to be built from the bottom up, what's it going to take for you folks to realize this top-down bullshit doesn't work, and hasn't worked for the past 50 years?
A voice of reason has arrived in the thread. We need a labor MOVEMENT, but I'd settle for a legitimate labor party as a consolation prize.
Your labour party concept has less chance of happening than Donald Trump giving away his wealth to charity. Nevermind that this is the actual worst time for a 3rd party concept in probably American history; it's so polarized right now that Jesus Christ could descend, run as a third party, and get no votes.
While you're working bottom-up on grassroots support for M4A? Maybe think about the tens of millions who would be insured under Biden's mid-ground plan. Because they don't have the years and decades it will take. They're more concerned about getting sick, dying and leaving their families in massive debt.
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Ross Perot, who still didn't win a single state. He did manage to steal votes mostly from Bush, I think...
This really is the biggest unquestionable issue why Trump needs to be removed that really doesn't get the attention it deserves.
(don't mind the outdated listings like Rick Perry, with the turnover rate it's impossible to find the most up-to-date graphics on this cabinet)
The president is much more than his own seat, and no I'm not referring to the SCOTUS which is similarly important but covered, but the full fucking corrupt administration in charge of these departments of government whether it be the most obvious cases, loyalist theocratic Bill Barr on the fucking DoJ or Betsy Devos making academic life harder for trans students or sexual assault survivors, corrupt and unqualified individuals like Elaine Chao and Ben Carson filling their own pockets or the obvious conservative ideologues on US treasury and commerce.
I've never been a fan of Biden's, I've been rooting against him from the start (maybe not below Butti/Bloomberg/Gabbard), and I believe he's reactive step back in the party - but for good and for bad he's not a strong ideologue that will demand a administration of yesmen to do his bidding.
Also on the stupid argument of accelerationism: it's already been proven not to work. The result of 2016 has led to both parties moving right, the public at large becoming nostalgic for the massive issues they had for *Bush* not even to mention the legitimate criticisms of Obama who is now entirely untouchable or the normalcy of racist 90s era politics.
It's incredibly naive to think the democrats wouldn't just as quickly crush any growing proper leftist movement, too.
A capitalist is a capitalist, and when faced with the threat of their power and wealth being taken from them, they will ALWAYS crush any movement, violently if need be.
That was the first name to come to mind, but in these years since most of these...spirited posters have been old enough to care about politics, it's been a tinfoil brigade.
I remember from 2004-2012, Ron Paul always got a shit-ton of love online, which never translated into actual votes come election time.
Some things never change...
You and I both know voting 3rd party in the US is not a viable option.There are more than two candidates. There is a green party, and you can also write in any candidate of your choice.
"Joe Biden to rich donors: "Nothing would fundamentally change" if he's elected"
Biden to rich donors: "Nothing will fundamentally change"
Along with praise for the "civility" of racists, Biden assures donors "no one's standard of living will change"