That sounds like something that's ripe for abuse.Is that hard for Valve to put the limit on 30 minutes if a game doesn't reach more than 2h of duration??
I do think some tweaking should probably be done for shorter gamesIs that hard for Valve to put the limit on 30 minutes if a game doesn't reach more than 2h of duration??
Yeah, sadly, it's not enough to just create a game people enjoy; you have to make sure your customers aren't dirtbags.
That toggle seems like it could be easily abusable to limit refunds in your game, though.I just got done watching John Wolfe play this earlier and his video was only about 59 minutes or so. I assumed it was that short due to editing, but I guess it not cutting the time down by that much jives with this; there didn't seem to be a lot in the way of timewasting stuff outside of the normal 'PT lite' shenanigans.
It's always sad in cases like this where people will refund a game they liked just because they can, it really hurts small devs like this. The only thing I could see fixing it would maybe be a setting the dev can toggle that indicates it's a short experience and restricts the refund timeline but also makes that clear on the purchase screen.
yeah, i imagine it's hard to balanceThat toggle seems like it could be easily abusable to limit refunds in your game, though.
It strikes me as sensible to step in this specific circumstance, where a game is in and around the two hour mark and thus would necessitate a smaller trial period for the refund. Put that part in a big flashing neon.Steam's refund system is a boon, but absolutely needs reevaluation relative to game experience. It's a hard thing to to gauge, but when there's no oversight you end up with situations like this; a reasonable priced game at a reasonable relative length has people exploiting a basic refund system to have their fund and cash out at the end.
I could understand if maybe, maybe this was like...a $40 indie game that lasted two hours. But that's a completely different conversation of quality relative to value and the subjective end user experience. As it is though this game goes for a meagre AUD $13, currently on sale for AUD $10. It's a movie ticket. Less, depending on where you go. So on paper it seems to me that the entry price and length (~60 minutes) are completely matched.
The system doesn't need to change, it just needs a modification in the specific circumstance of games that run under the length of the refund period.I'd be curious to see how many refunds they had. Scrolling through his reviews there were only four that I saw that were refunded (with all text reviews listed). Doesn't mean he didn't get tons of non-text review or no review refunds, but I'd want to know more before declaring that the system needs to change.
If there's abuse, Steam reviews would take care of that, and I'm sure people would report it.This sucks but I'd rather have the ability to get a refund on a game than not at all.
Valve and other stores can't really reduce the time or anything based on the game because how would they do that?
Time limit based on price? How does that affect pricey games on sale?
Based on time the game takes to complete? How would they know? From the devs themselves? Easy to abuse. From howlongtobeat.com or metric within Steam? Would need to be completed by a bunch of people first.
Via achievement unlock? The devs could flag an early achievement with the flag that locks out refunds.
Case by case basis where someone investigates time played and the average time to beat? Refunds would then take a lot longer and need to be overseen manually.
Only thing I can think of that could solve it and not be some magic solution is a straight up "No Refunds" option that Valve or the dev can enable on games, but again, could be exploitable by devs.
That seems untenable for games that are so long that the core gameplay doesn't even begin in the first hour.I would make it so devs could choose how long you can play for before a refund is refused; 30 minutes, 1 hour, or the current 2 hours.
It strikes me as sensible to step in this specific circumstance, where a game is in and around the two hour mark and thus would necessitate a smaller trial period for the refund. Put that part in a big flashing neon.
Like, if the game is completely over in two hours, and then you're using the refund to get your money back despite seeing it through to the end, you're not doing it because you didn't enjoy yourself, you're exploiting a loophole after getting your fill.
The first one strikes me as a good idea for games that are as low-cost as this one, but I mostly like the latter as a broad solution.Yep. Two solutions I can think of:
1) If a title is gauged as less than two hours to experience in full, give the developer the option to turn off refunds, and have that clearly flagged to the buyer before checking out.
2) Give developers the option to have either a two hour grace period for refunds, or a marker point (particularly in short games) integrated by the developer (either relative to game time or experience) that flags the necessity for the player to quit if they want a refund. A point of no return, really.
Valve does need to work closer with devs in the instances though. THere's no solution at all and it's not good.
2 hours is too long for any game and ripe for abuse. You should be able to install a game and play it for half hour to make sure it works and you don't hate it. 30 minutes max for all games.
The first one strikes me as a good idea for games that are as low-cost as this one, but I mostly like the latter as a broad solution.
You'd think so, but some games don't show their warts immediately. Further, some games launch in such a bad state that a player can be fighting just getting the game to run. As long as the executable is running, Steam considers it part of those 2 hours. From personal experience, it took me about that long to determine that a VR game that was giving me motion sickness just wasn't worth trying to see if maybe it could work. That 2 hours feels like a bare minimum for a fair person to make a determination as to whether a game is for them or not. If Valve can't make a flexible system for situations like this (whole game < 3 hours), then we will occasionally see stories like this.2 hours is too long for any game and ripe for abuse. You should be able to install a game and play it for half hour to make sure it works and you don't hate it. 30 minutes max for all games.
2 hours is too long for any game and ripe for abuse. You should be able to install a game and play it for half hour to make sure it works and you don't hate it. 30 minutes max for all games.
Terrible idea. Not nearly long enough.2 hours is too long for any game and ripe for abuse. You should be able to install a game and play it for half hour to make sure it works and you don't hate it. 30 minutes max for all games.
This feels like a scenario where we can keep all the benefits and then, in this specific kind of circumstance that only affects these games, modify to accommodate them.That's unfortunate for these devs, but digital refunds are a good thing and we should be wanting them to be adopted on more digital storefronts, not trying to get them more restricted on the few that do have them. The benefits refunds offer to the consumer are worth it even if they come at the expense of smaller devs making very short games.
Halloween is coming up, save um for then and have a spoopfestHad no idea about the dev, but picked up the bundle after hearing about this.
Uh, someone might have to play these spooky games for me.
its taken me 3 hours to even get a game to run right before2 hours is too long for any game and ripe for abuse. You should be able to install a game and play it for half hour to make sure it works and you don't hate it. 30 minutes max for all games.
you don't understand. I got scared by the first hour of the original silent hill in 2018.
I've often almost returned a game in two hours of trying to troubleshoot bad performance, only to finally figure it out at like the 1 hour 45 minute mark. The first two hours of about half of my game purchases are spent trying to figure out why there is constant stutter or other technical issues because so many PC games are released in an awful state that need tons of troubleshooting to fix.
Only getting 30 minutes to do that would suck and I'd definitely end up returning more games because I couldn't figure out the issue in that short window
I have never returned a game because I "didn't like it". Every one of my game returns was because of a technical issue that I couldn't fix before the two hour window ran out.
This feels like a scenario where we can keep all the benefits and then, in this specific kind of circumstance that only affects these games, modify to accommodate them.
Like it's not "this is being exploited here, FUCK refunds!" It ain't binary.
sucks for this dev but sometimes you just make a very refundable game