FriskyCanuck

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,067
Toronto, Canada
I guess those bodies aren't going to be repatriated.

Iran considers dual nationals aboard a Ukrainian plane that was shot down accidentally this month to be Iranian citizens, a Foreign Ministry spokesperson said on Monday.

Iran does not recognize dual nationality. Many of the 176 people killed in the disaster were Iranians with dual citizenship. Canada had 57 citizens on board.

"We have informed Canada that Tehran considers dual nationals who were killed in the plane crash as Iranian citizens … Iran is mourning their deaths," Foreign Ministry spokesperson Abbas Mousavi told a televised weekly news conference.
Mousavi announced that the "loved ones who have perished were Iranian" and that Iran did not accept their dual citizenships.

"According to our laws … we recognize them as Iranians. We will take measures for the victims and their families according to our own laws," he said.

In his speech, Mousavi also criticized Canada for following diplomatic pressures imposed by United States, saying Iran had announced its "readiness to have a consular section" but the requests had been ignored by the Canadian government.
Under Prime Minister Stephen Harper, the federal government cut diplomatic ties with Iran in 2012. The Liberals pledged to re-engage with the country in 2015, but to date, bilateral relations have not been renewed.

As protests erupted in Iran over the plane disaster, the British ambassador in Tehran was briefly detained. Officials said he was at an "illegal" rally, while the envoy said he was attending a vigil for victims. Britain criticized his detention.

"Iran respects all foreign diplomats in Iran as long as they do not violate international laws," Mousavi said.
Aurel Braun, professor of international relations and political science at the University of Toronto's Munk School of Global Affairs, said Iran's statement was tantamount to denying the Canadian citizenship of those killed.

"It complicates co-operation [with Canada] when recovering remains and investigating the crash. It just makes everything vastly more difficult," Braun told CBC News.

Refusing to acknowledge dual citizenship was a "matter of control," and a signal to those travelling the country that they are subject to the "whims of the totality of the regime's power," he said.
 
Oct 27, 2017
43,104
It's crazy how they've completely destroyed the "goodwill" they had when Trump assassinated Soleimani

edit: Meant Soleimani not Khashoggi. Had a massive brain fart
 
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DJ_Lae

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,938
Edmonton
Not really a surprise, I suppose.

They'll be continuing to restrict others' access to anything surrounding this crash. Whatever it takes to limit investigations and compensation and avoid taking actual responsibility.
 

Daphne

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,745
This is disgusting. Iran needs to be doing all they can here for those they killed and for their families, but instead they do... this.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
I don't get it. Why would dual citizenship even matter for something like this? Is there some bizarre law preventing the remains of someone being moved from country to country? Why not just allow them to do what they need and show some humanity? Having dual citizenship seems like such a pointless matter when it's under these circumstances.
 

finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
Imagine defending this government. What a horrific way to make a hard situation needlessly harder for the affected families.
 

ZiZ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,716
Imagine defending this government. What a horrific way to make a hard situation needlessly harder for the affected families.

No need to imagine, just go on twitter you'll find hundreds of "liberals" defending them. Yes Trump is a terrible orange creature, but that doesn't make the Iranian regime any good.
 

ChippyTurtle

Banned
Oct 13, 2018
4,773
Guess they decided the PR fight was lost.

Hopefully like the article mentions it doesn't mean anything and they will follow the wishes of family in Canada despite this announcement.
 

NSESN

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,421
Imagine defending this government. What a horrific way to make a hard situation needlessly harder for the affected families.
Criticizing the United States, that is what most people are doing, isnt defending Iran, just because Iran government is evil doesn't excuse US evil actions.
 

take_marsh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,386
Surprise, surprise. The Iranian government is a piece of shit. Zero thought for the families of the victims they've killed.
 

Theodran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
932
Japan
Less than a 3rd of the world's countries in the world recognize dual citizenship.

This is not an Iranian-exclusive problem. This is a problem with any country that does not recognize dual citizenship reciprocally.
 

Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
I don't get it. Why would dual citizenship even matter for something like this? Is there some bizarre law preventing the remains of someone being moved from country to country? Why not just allow them to do what they need and show some humanity? Having dual citizenship seems like such a pointless matter when it's under these circumstances.
As I understand it, many of the victims had dual Iranian/Canadian citizenships (because Canada is totally cool with dual citizenships, and doesn't ask you to give up your heritage when you come over).

So, there were Canadians on the flight, who have families in Canada... so the Canadian government sends word to Iran that Canada would like the bodies to be returned. This is (sadly) normal.

But Iran has decided to get pissy. They're rejecting the Canadian half of the dual citizenships and declaring the victims to be full Iranian citizens. Therefore, they're telling the Government of Canada to piss off and stop speaking to them. The Government of Canada apparently has no business speaking to Iran about dead Iranians.

Iran will decide on it's own whether they want to ship these Iranian bodies over to some distant relatives living in some foreign country, or whether they're just going to dump them in some unmarked grave or cremate them as unclaimed bodies. But if Iran sends the bodies over to the families in Canada, then Iran gets 100% of the credit for their incredible act of generosity. Nobody is allowed to say that Iran was asked for the shipment to happen, because Iran wasn't asked (at least, not in a way that Iran considers valid).

And the amazing thing is, Iran is pulling this shit at a time when they're trying to get their diplomatic relations with Canada restored, and this unfortunate incident was seen by some as an icebreaker towards establishing normal relations. Also doesn't help that Iran apparently just arrested the British ambassador for attending a vigil for these victims. Yeah, Iran is really trying hard to get a Canadian ambassador to set up shop over there [/sarcasm]. Come visit Iran! Our prisons are lovely! (Assuming we don't shoot you out of the sky upon your arrival.)

(PS: Fuck Trump.)
 
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Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
As I understand it, many of the victims had dual Iranian/Canadian citizenships (because Canada is totally cool with dual citizenships, and doesn't ask you to give up your heritage when you come over).

So, there were Canadians on the flight, who have families in Canada... so the Canadian government sends word to Iran that Canada would like the bodies to be returned. This is (sadly) normal.

But Iran has decided to get pissy. They're rejecting the Canadian half of the dual citizenships and declaring the victims to be full Iranian citizens. Therefore, they're telling the Government of Canada to piss off and stop speaking to them. The Government of Canada apparently has no business speaking to Iran about dead Iranians.

Iran will decide on it's own whether they want to ship these Iranian bodies over to some distant relatives living in some foreign country, or whether they're just going to dump them in some unmarked grave or cremate them as unclaimed bodies. But if Iran sends the bodies over to the families in Canada, then Iran gets 100% of the credit for their incredible act of generosity. Nobody is allowed to say that Iran was asked for the shipment to happen, because Iran wasn't asked (at least, not in a way that Iran considers valid).

And the amazing thing is, Iran is pulling this shit at a time when they're trying to get their diplomatic relations with Canada restored, and this unfortunate incident was seen by some as an icebreaker towards establishing normal relations. Also doesn't help that Iran apparently just arrested the British ambassador for attending a vigil for these victims. Yeah, Iran is really trying hard to get a Canadian ambassador to set up shop over there [/sarcasm]. Come visit Iran! Our prisons are lovely! (Assuming we don't shoot you out of the sky upon your arrival.)

(PS: Fuck Trump.)
What a terrible situation
 

Sage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
680
Japan
I feel a lot of sympathy for the families here, and Iran should repatriate the bodies to them as a gesture of goodwill no matter where in the world they are after murdering these people, but on the subject of dual citizenship effectively pulling a fast one by not declaring your other citizenship to a country which does not allow dual citizenships is something you have to do at your own risk. There are very good reasons a country would not allow dual citizenship, especially in an area such as the Middle East where religious and political affiliation is often tied to nationality. Whether you agree with it or not it is there to stop political agents of another nation interfering with the democratic process (no laughing at the back for Iran's case), since they are unlikely to want to give up the citizenship of the country they are loyal to just to vote as a block or enter the political system maliciously in the target nation. It's very effective at doing that in East Asia actually where that was a very real threat in the past (North Korean citizens / schools in Japan for example).
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
This is how dual citizenship works in many (most?) countries— including the US. What that has to do with sending bodies home though is beyond me but the article just says it makes it more complicated, not that they won't do it. I wonder if they'll pay monetary reparations for the Iranian victims
 

Solace

Dog's Best Friend
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,920
The most bizzare thing about this whole plane crash, is the second missile that was shot at the plane, 30 seconds after the first one. There is a video and this is also how we got that first video. The guy started filming after the first shot. No one is talking about this second missle, Iran, Canada, US,... no one. WTF.
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,978
The most bizzare thing about this whole plane crash, is the second missile that was shot at the plane, 30 seconds after the first one. There is a video and this is also how we got that first video. The guy started filming after the first shot. No one is talking about this second missle, Iran, Canada, US,... no one. WTF.
It was already talked about, the US said it saw both missile launches via satellite. It's just, kinda, irrelevant in a way since Iran admitted they shot it down, they could have fired one or forty, doesn't change a thing.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,527
London
I don't get it. Why would dual citizenship even matter for something like this? Is there some bizarre law preventing the remains of someone being moved from country to country? Why not just allow them to do what they need and show some humanity? Having dual citizenship seems like such a pointless matter when it's under these circumstances.

Probably to limit liability in some wat. US had to pay out after Iran Air 655