Is a Skyward Sword port without motion controls feasible?

[Berordn]

I feel like we've got a better chance of a ground-up remake of Skyward Sword that removes most of the motion stuff rather than a 3D All-Stars style emulation, but neither seems particularly likely to me.

I'm sure you could map most of it to the right stick, but acceleration is going to be tricky to get right.

 

[Dice]

I feel like we've got a better chance of a ground-up remake of Skyward Sword that removes most of the motion stuff rather than a 3D All-Stars style emulation, but neither seems particularly likely to me.

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Maybe with more time? A 15~20 year anniversary remake. 🎉 >_o

I can honestly say I don't know for this one. I can't imagine Nintendo leaving it alone, but at the same time I have no idea what extent they'd bother with (we were really spoiled with the 3DS/WiiU Remasters).

 

[ShinJohnpv]

Then why start talking about it at all? What's the point you're trying to make if not that using sticks would be too hard to do? Which, btw, was your stance this whole time...

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You can tell who never played Skyward Sword.

The two games aren't comparable at all. Only having to direct sword cuts in slowed down time vs real time are two really different things.

If it happens it'll be 2 joy con play only.

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Here I am saying the two games aren't comparable because one is giving you a larger input window and one a smaller quicker one.

There are plenty of times where you have to react quick and do not have a giant window to angle a thumbstick.

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Here I am saying it would not be as good/as fun/as enjoyable/as quick, your wrist is a faster reaction point. My point hasn't changed. I said it again later there is a reason MGSR slow down time when you need to make those inputs.

Nothing has changed, but I am done with your passive aggressiveness and this conversation.

 

[Nostremitus]

Here I am saying the two games aren't comparable because one is giving you a larger input window and one a smaller quicker one.



Here I am saying it would not be as good/as fun/as enjoyable/as quick, your wrist is a faster reaction point. My point hasn't changed. I said it again later there is a reason MGSR slow down time when you need to make those inputs.

Nothing has changed, but I am done with your passive aggressiveness and this conversation.

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Ok guy, move your goalpost on out of the thread.

 

[DLH]

I'm not sure that simply mapping the sword controls to the right stick would be very fun, but I'm also not sure it would be any less fun. Either way, each battle is going to play out like an awkward dance lesson, intently holding your partner's gaze, clumsily bumping into each other while trying to match their pose, finally getting into the right position by the time they're on the next move...

Yeah, no. That's not the game I want to play again. I would, however, be delighted to see a full rework with the good parts (storyline, characters, art style, dungeons, etc.) intact, but with a completely different combat system, fewer Demise fights, and NO FUCKING TADTONES.

 

[Brushguy Woodthreep]

Only for the New 3DS/2DS. Regular 3DS/2DS models had no free camera control. And the little nubbin was hardly a good replacement for a c-stick.

EDIT: Circle Pad Pro could've been used as well, but the point still stands that you had to pay extra for it.

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They only added the feature for devices/accessories that supported that feature? You don't say.

My point is, they cared enough about right-stick camera control to add the feature to the game. Based on that, it's entirely possible they'd do the same for other ports of Zelda games that didn't include it (i.e. future ports of OoT and SS).

 

[Efejota]

I wonder if they'd have ported it already if the lite wasn't a thing. I'm still bummed that they basically closed the doors to many wii-like experiences.

This and Star Fox: Zero were doomed to be trapped to their original console which is for the best




This seems feasible, but sounds like it'd be a really miserable experience in practise. Doing that for every swing of the sword ...

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I still think Star Fox Zero could be ported, but they should really make it easier to play without the cockpit view. It should be possible to have the cockpit as a quick toggle anyways.

EDIT:
Also, for those suggesting the analog sword, I hope you don't want the forward strike mapped to pressing the joystick or something like that. You can't also map the vertical or horizontal spin attacks to doing circles with the analog because that's used to make enemies dizzy. In fact, you'd also need to differentiate doing strikes from simply positioning your sword for blocking, charging light beams and puzzles. I guess your idea is that it's registered according to the speed of the input, but that seems like something that could lead to imprecise inputs unless you play it really carefully...

At that point, why would you want to have it play like that instead of using motion?

 

[JaggiBaggi]

this isn't true, sadly. start playing skyward sword, then turn your sensor bar around, jiggle your wiimote around for ten seconds, then point it in front of you. (observe drift.)

then turn the sensor bar around again (or have someone else do it so you don't have to move the wiimote), and watch as the sword's position instantly corrects itself

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This... doesn't actually contradict anything I said? Like, the Wiimote will use the sensor bar to correct itself if available, yes. It will also use other stuff like the Skyward Slash, or other motions actually designed specifically for that.

I'm not implying it magically won't have drift, just that the sensor bar isn't the single thing it uses to correct the drift, and it's definitely possible to work around it not being there.

 

[JaggiBaggi]

At that point, why would you want to have it play like that instead of using motion?

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I think the problem is that this debate is not coming from the right angle at all.

A lot of people asking for a version of Skyward Sword without motion controls do it because of a weird motion control stigma that it's a "gimmick" or something that makes the game not worthy, somehow. Or a deep dislike for the concept. They feel a game with """"normal"""" button controls is automatically better just because it's not motion controls.

In that sense, they don't care if the better experience here is the motion controlled one. They have already decided motion controls can't be it. We saw a bit of it with the people arguing playing HL: Alyx with ""normal"" keyboard and mouse controls was fine in another thread, a while ago.

So, they're just repeatedly stating it is a possibility and should be done because they want the game to conform to what they have decided it's the better experience. They don't actually care if it is or not. Heck, a few people would surely feel it it happening would be a win, "Rescuing a game from the tyranny of motion controls!"


Before anyone jumps at me, yes, accessibility wise, being able to play any motion control only game with a normal controller would be good. There's people that don't have enough mobility in their arms, or have other issues that would prevent them from playing a game without traditional controls. That's good, accessibility is great.

However, making games accessible doesn't mean you have to compromise their design. Not every single game is going to work with all control schemes, and that's more than fair. Efforts to try to make them work preserving as much of the experience as possible are welcome, though!

...mapping the sword to the stick because it worked in MGRising wouldn't be either making it work, or preserving the experience, though. There's several degrees of movement lost there. And I feel sorry for anyone playing the game like that, because they got a significantly watered down experience.

 

[AncientReptileBrain]

This... doesn't actually contradict anything I said? Like, the Wiimote will use the sensor bar to correct itself if available, yes. It will also use other stuff like the Skyward Slash, or other motions actually designed specifically for that.

I'm not implying it magically won't have drift, just that the sensor bar isn't the single thing it uses to correct the drift, and it's definitely possible to work around it not being there.

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i think what you might be describing is the use of the accelerometers to correct the ""vertical"" drift over time. the Wii SDK and the Nintendo SDK both support this, and you're right, skyward sword did use this — the problem is the horizontal drift because you can't infer horizontal attitude from gravity alone (you'd need some other sort of sensor, which neither the wiimote or joycon have!).

i don't mean to be rude, just trying to give the most correct information here.

 

[PAFenix]

I loved the original. Was fine with the great motion controls.

I also know they weren't for everyone and am all for Nintendo giving a more classic option for us. I wouldn't mind even trying it out too.

Accessibility options are good all around.

 

[JaggiBaggi]

i think what you might be describing is the use of the accelerometers to correct the ""vertical"" drift over time. the Wii SDK and the Nintendo SDK both support this, and you're right, skyward sword did use this — the problem is the horizontal drift because you can't infer horizontal attitude from gravity alone (you'd need some other sort of sensor, which neither the wiimote or joycon have!).

i don't mean to be rude, just trying to give the most correct information here.

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It's fine, you're not being rude. Yeah, you're not wrong on that, but there were a few things the game did to correct horizontal drift, IIRC. Weren't the menus in the warp statues specifically for that?

 

[AncientReptileBrain]

It's fine, you're not being rude. Yeah, you're not wrong on that, but there were a few things the game did to correct horizontal drift, IIRC. Weren't the menus in the warp statues specifically for that?

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it was clever when it came to transitioning to aiming or using an on screen cursor -- it would perform one or two "secret" recenters for its virtual "fake sensor bar pointer" position, so that the camera or pointer wouldn't jerk around wildly. but the sword itself, and notable the radial menus, always respected the raw rotation as provided by the SDK (and corrected by the sensor bar and accelerometer -- though I think both of these correction methods are disabled when you actual aim at things or are in a cursor pointing mode so that you don't see the position correction happening as you aim the little hand around -- but i might be getting some wires crossed).

 

[JaggiBaggi]

it was clever when it came to transitioning to aiming or using an on screen cursor -- it would perform one or two "secret" recenters for its virtual "fake sensor bar pointer" position, so that the camera or pointer wouldn't jerk around wildly. but the sword itself, and notable the radial menus, always respected the raw rotation as provided by the SDK (and corrected by the sensor bar and accelerometer -- though I think both of these correction methods are disabled when you actual aim at things or are in a cursor pointing mode so that you don't see the position correction happening as you aim the little hand around -- but i might be getting some wires crossed).

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Huh. I honestly would have to try it again, I'm mostly going off memories of playing it on WiiU and my sensor bar not always being available. Wasn't there a way to recenter the Sword position at least by holding it forward?

 

[AncientReptileBrain]

Huh. I honestly would have to try it again, I'm mostly going off memories of playing it on WiiU and my sensor bar not always being available. Wasn't there a way to recenter the Sword position at least by holding it forward?

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i wonder if the DPD sensor in the remote was somehow responding to another light source of some kind? not sure!